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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Intrigue (PFRPG)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Intrigue (PFRPG)
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Words Cut Deep

In the right setting, a single scathing word can prove deadlier than a poisoned dagger. Behind the scenes of heroic battles and magical realms lies a seething underbelly of danger and deception. This world of intrigue holds endless possibilities for adventure, as heroes duel with words instead of steel, plot daring heists, and engage in battles of wills against relentless nemeses. A high-stakes game of shadows and secrets is yours to master—if you have the wits!

Whether the heroes are taming the blood-soaked back alleys of their favorite metropolis or jockeying for the queen's favor alongside highborn nobles, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Intrigue is an invaluable companion to the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon more than 10 years of system development and an Open Playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into a new era.

Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Intrigue includes:

  • The vigilante, a new character class that lives two lives—that of an unassuming member of the community, and a cloaked crusader with his own agenda!
  • New archetypes for alchemists, bards, druids, hunters, inquisitors, investigators, mesmerists, rangers, rogues, slayers, spiritualists, and more!
  • New feats and magic items for characters of all sorts, granting mastery of street-smart combat, impenetrable disguises, and misdirection.
  • Dozens of spells to manipulate tense social settings, whether to reveal adversaries' secrets or hide the truth.
  • A complete system of influence, providing new goals and rewards to challenge players and link their fortunes to nonplayer characters and organizations.
  • Systems and advice to help Game Masters introduce a variety of new encounters into their games­—daring heists, extended pursuits, and tense searches for buried secrets.
  • Rules for social combat and verbal duels, allowing characters to use words as weapons to sway hearts and humiliate foes.
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-826-7

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A Must-Have for Heavy RP Games

5/5 —

Okay, let's get into Ultimate Intrigue! As the title implies, the purpose of this book is to help flesh out more subtle elements of the game: things like spreading rumors, rallying a crowd, stealing secrets, and other classic cloak-and-dagger stuff. I've used bits and pieces of it in previous campaigns, but read through it carefully (and incorporated a fair bit of it) for my current Curse of the Crimson Throne campaign, as that adventure path is designed around urban political strife. Boiled down to brass tacks, the book is a 256 page hardcover comprised of six chapters. The full-colour artwork is very strong throughout, and the cover is great (though Merisiel's legs are like three times longer than her torso!). There's a very short two-page introduction that summarises each chapter--which is what I'm going to do anyway.

Chapter 1 is "Classes" (60 pages). The big deal here is a new base case, the Vigilante. The concept is that the character has both a normal (social) identity and a masked identity, with certain class options only working while in the associated guise. There are also several safeguards to help keep anyone from figuring out that Bruce Wayne is really Batman. I have a Vigilante character in Pathfinder Society, and one of my players runs one in Curse of the Crimson Throne. I think the class is perfect for an urban campaign mostly set in a single city (especially with lots room for intrigue), but it doesn't work as well with the more traditional "travelling adventuring party" campaign. It's a bit too obvious when five newcomers arrive in town, only for one of them to "disappear" and a new costumed avenger show up. I know there are also some gamers who dislike what can seem like the awkward introduction of comic book super heroes into their fantasy role-playing. For me, I think the concept works well--though as I said, only in particular types of campaigns.

A large chunk of the chapter is devoted to new archetypes for other classes. More specifically, alchemists, bards, cavaliers, druids, inquisitors, investigators, mesmerists, rangers, rogues, skalds, spiritualists, swashbucklers, and vigilantes get some love. Frankly, a lot of the archetypes are fairly forgettable, but there are exceptions--for example, a Daring General Cavalier would be great in military campaigns, the Dandy Ranger could be really useful in an urban campaign, and a couple of the vigilante archetypes are perfect if you want to play the Hulk or Spider-Man. Although the rogue archetypes aren't very good, there are several excellent rogue talents that focus on making the character harder to track through divination, etc. It's worth nothing that this book came out during the period when the hardcover line was still setting-neutral, so there won't be any Golarion-specific flavour with the archetypes (for better or worse depending on your preferences).

Chapter 2 is "Feats" (24 pages). There's something like 110 new feats in the chapter, and probably something for everyone. Given the book's theme, many of the feats are related to sneaking around, hiding and disguising spells, stealing stuff, making plans, figuring out when you're being to lied to, etc. A few that I particularly like include Brilliant Planner (giving you the chance to have just what you need just when you need it), Call Truce (giving a slim chance to actually end combat peacefully when its underway), and Drunkard's Recovery (silly but fun). A couple of important feats are Conceal Spell (which hides the pesky manifestations that spells create in Pathfinder) and Fencing Grace (adding Dex to damage with rapiers, a favourite of swashbucklers everywhere). Overall, I thought the options presented were well-written and plausible in terms of desirability.

Chapter 3 is "Mastering Intrigue" (68 pages). This is probably the most important chapter in the book for GMs. It offers tons of useful advice, as well as clarification on some tricky game mechanics, to help run intrigue-based games. The pages about how common magic spells can be handled while still preserving mysteries, secrets, and misdirection is pure gold. The chapter also introduces seven new rules sub-systems, any or all of which can be incorporated into a campaign to flesh out certain aspects of gameplay. "Influence" is a sub-system that deepens the process of persuading a person or organisation to support you. Instead of a simple single Dipomacy check, PCs need to make certain skill checks to learn a person's interests and weaknesses, and then other skill checks to take advantage of what they've learned. The process operates through multiple phases of tracked successes and failures, and can be tied to mechanical favours and benefits. It's become a very popular facet of many Pathfinder Society scenarios, and I think it's a pretty clever way to handle things--though it can be a bit clunky at first. "Heists" is a sub-system that contains some excellent advice to GMs on how to structure things so players don't obsess over unimportant trivia and are willing to violate that old canard of "don't split the party." "Infiltration" contains some quick advice, but that's about it. "Leadership" deepens the feat of the same name, adding lots of rules for interacting with other sub-systems both in this book and in Ultimate Campaign. I'm personally still not persuaded that the Leadership feat chain is a good inclusion to the game. "Nemeses" is all about adding a recurring villain; I think it's trying to systematise something that could be handled just fine without it. Though there are some fun suggestions on evil plots to foil. "Pursuit" is a little like the Chase sub-system from the GameMastery Guide but stretched out over hours and days cross-country instead of in minutes through alleyways. I could imagine using it. "Research" is probably my favourite of the sub-systems, and one I've used in multiple campaigns. In essence, it gives the PCs a reason to use things like libraries and archives by giving them bonuses to their Knowledge checks, but then makes gaining different thresholds of information the result of multiple successful checks. Overall, a great chapter--I wish the Influence and Research sub-systems had been in the Core Rulebook, because they really add a lot to the non-combat aspects of the game.

Chapter 4 is "Social Combat" (25 pages). The idea here is to present GMs with options on how to handle social conflicts--things like debates, trials, cutting repartee, etc. There's also a "verbal duels" sub-system. I'm just not sure about it--it's something I'd have to see in practice. However, a really useful part of the chapter is advice to the GM on how to handle the various social skills in the game--Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Sense Motive--as well as the intrigue skills like Disguise, Perception, and Stealth. The advice here is excellent, and I just stopped in the middle of this review to reread it.

Chapter 5 is "Spells" (40 pages). You can judge from the length of the chapter that there's a ton of new spells, and every spellcasting class will find something. One of the fun things the chapter introduces is a new "ruse" descriptor for spells, which means the spell is easily mistaken for another even by observers trained in Spellcraft or Knowledge (arcana). It's a good way to mislead folks who have played way too much Pathfinder. There are some really clever spells in this section, with a couple of my favourites including false resurrection (instead of bringing back a soul, you stuff a demon into the body!) and the hilarious shamefully overdressed.

Chapter 6 is "Gear and Magic Items" (22 pages). There are some new mundane pieces of equipment (weapons like the cool wrist dart launcher, alchemical items, etc.) but most of the chapter is new magic items with an intrigue theme. The one that really stuck out at me was the launcher of distraction, which is perfect for assassination attempts because it makes it seem like the attack is coming from somewhere else.

Overall, I think Ultimate Intrigue is an excellent book. It's pretty much a must-have in my opinion for any campaign that's going to involve a lot of role-playing or that moves beyond traditional dungeon crawling and wilderness encounters. Even readers not involved in "intrigue campaigns" per se are sure to find plenty of material they can use.

1/5 —

Don't get me wrong I love Paizo books, I love their work, and I'm proud to own almost all of their publications.

However, Ultimate Intrigue is the one book I regret buying. It's even more than that, it's the one book i regret they ever published.

We need rules and systems, ok. We need a magic system because magic isn't a real thing. We need a combat system otherwise playing with your grilfriend become home abuse. But we don't need a social system because it's a ROLEPLAYING game. Either you want intrigue heavy campaign and you roleplay them, or you want to dungeon crawl or investigate (that's fine too) and you don't play intrigues. You can even do both and it's great.

Aside from that massive problem, the book suffers from "a turn normal actions into feats/class ability" syndrome. I can't count the number of time where players made me fighters to wizards or rogues with a dual identity. We didn't need the Vigilante, and still don't. And I loved when wizard use to get clever and ask for linguistics/bluff roll to blend a spell into a phrase. Now you need a feat for it. Thanks, Ultimate Intrigue. If that was not enough, some of these nonsense feat are built in feat tax chains.

But the one thing I hate the most about this book is the stupid FAQ it bestowed upon us to promote itself (https://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9tza). That makes a whole school of magic (illusion) utterly useless, and destroys a lot of others (enchantment).

Now I know I can just refuse to use it. But i use to love pathfinder for the clarity and perfect sense with out need to houserule much.

Now it's gone.

I'm tired of paizo trying to stuff this book down our face

1/5 —

If I was playing a home campaign this book might be more fitting,

For society play this verbal debate and other ideas for this book really bog down the game play. I like social aspect of games and role playing but as I said society play it slows the game way down to try and get people up to snuff on the mechanics

An amazing new class in a hit and miss supplement

4/5 —

So, Ultimate Intrigue took a long time for me to come to a complete opinion on.

The Vigilante class introduced in this book is, in my opinion, easily the best non-spellcasting class Paizo has ever created. It breaks up its social options and combat options in such a way that you have a great character able to participate in all areas of the game without having to choose whether you want to be competent in combat or in the myriad other facets of the game like exploration, social encounters, etc. It has deep and well-designed talents that allow you to pick any of a variety of different ways to participate in combat, with or without weapons, and numerous tools for allowing players to influence the story with safe houses, contacts, and more.

At PAX Prime 2016 I had the opportunity to visit Paizo's Pathfinder demo area and play their pregenerated vigilante character. I honestly didn't expect it to go terribly well; after all, the vigilante is a class built around balancing two identities and moving between different social strata, so you'd think that this would require a more controlled environment where you know the other players in advance and have time to plan out how your character fits into the game world with your GM ahead of time, right? Turns out, I was wrong. The vigilante class is well-crafted enough that even while playing a 1st level pregen I was able to easily deal with situations in and out of combat, and it took me about 60 seconds of conversation to establish with the group that I had a secret identity they were privy to and might need them to cover for my character from time to time if he needed to swap identities. It didn't hurt matters that the only downside to anyone learning a vigilante's secret identity is that, well, they know his or her secret identity. You can go all Tony Stark if you want, announce that you are Iron Man, and carry on as normal. Very few of the vigilante's abilities actually require you to maintain truly secret identities, and the only real hit you take is that you're a bit easier to find by magical means (though even this can be addressed with clever use of the Safe House Social Talent).

The book also elaborates on the intent behind numerous spells that often prove problematic for GMs in games where they want to have a focus on gritty investigation of mystery, such as the various detect spells, speak with dead, etc.

I think my biggest disappointments with the book, and the reason I can't give it 5 stars, lie in the feats and archetypes. I'll start with the feats, and a bit about why I see most of them as representative of missed opportunities.

To start with, Pathfinder's skill system is heavily dated. When Paizo brought it over from 3.5, they combined a few extraneous skills, but otherwise did little to update things, meaning the core area of the rules covering everything in the game that isn't casting spells or hitting things is now well over a decade old and out of date. Several skills don't even actually work, or work well, as written, have interactions you're just supposed to kind of assume or make up (Ride and Handle Animal are a mess, Stealth requires one to check out FAQs and blog posts online to use as intended, Bluff and Diplomacy have more than a few vague areas and inconsistencies, etc.), so what better book to address, update, and expand these core components of the game than a book about playing skill and intrigue heavy campaigns? Unfortunately, Paizo chose not to go that route, instead relying on feats to stretch skills over their gaps and issues, leading to many of the feats in the this book providing skill uses that I've seen GMs at hundreds of tables houserule as basic functions of those skills to begin with. Instead of formalizing intuitive uses of existing skills into their basic function, they added a feat tax to allow characters to do things many people already thought they could do. While there is a section in the book going over several of the vague areas in a few key skills, these are primarily common sense clarifications instead of the full address the skills could have used.

The archetypes, like many Paizo hardcovers, are all over the place. Some of them are interesting and dynamic, like the Masked Performer bard archetype, some show an attempt at embodying a cool and modern concept but fail to achieve that concept in the actual execution, like the Magical Child vigilante archetype, and some are just plain bad, so obviously terribly designed that you almost wonder if the person who wrote them has ever actually played Pathfinder, like the Brute vigilante archetype.

Now, don't let the above wall of negativity mislead you; there is a lot of great stuff in this book, including perhaps the most inspired and well-crafted class Paizo has ever produced, a class that introduces really interesting design concepts, plays with components of the class chassis we haven't seen classes treat as quite so malleable before, and is a genuinely fun and interesting class to play in and of itself. Despite many of the feats ranging from useless to frustrating, there are still quite a few that are interesting and viable, and while the archetypes are very hit or miss, that's generally true of Paizo books in general and probably shouldn't be held against this one in particular.

My final verdict on Ultimate Intrigue is 4 stars, and a strong recommendation to pick it up, if for no other reason than to add the Vigilante class to your game (though there definitely are other reasons to add this book to your collection).

Pathfinder presents Batman!

4/5 —

No seriously. The vigilante class is freaking batman. Look at the art for chapter one and for the character. HE'S BATMAN. Of course they also have archetypes if you want to make Hulk, Sailor Moon, even He-Man. With the archetypes from other books the list goes on.
My favorite part, and I cannot wait to test this properly in a game, is the social combat. It works a lot like playing craps or roulette. You get a pool of Determination points which you use to place a bet then you roll off with your social skills check! Seriously it sounds like lots of fun!

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Designer
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Milo v3 wrote:
I can't believe the vigilante doesn't have Knowledge (Nobility) as a class skill, but they have Engineering and Dungeoneering.... that's just ridiculous when social identity is assumed to be something like nobility and even the iconic is an aristocrat. Hope this get's errata'd

I'm looking into the possibility of launching the Ultimate Intrigue FAQ page with several FAQs like we did with Occult just after launch, and this is on my list of possibilities for that. No guarantees, but stay tuned!

Silver Crusade
Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps Subscriber
Milo v3 wrote:
I can't believe the vigilante doesn't have Knowledge (Nobility) as a class skill, but they have Engineering and Dungeoneering.... that's just ridiculous when social identity is assumed to be something like nobility and even the iconic is an aristocrat. Hope this get's errata'd

Knowledge: Engineering, at least, ties into one of the vigilante social talents: Case the Joint. It would be a little weird to have a "hardcover" class talent that references a skill not on the class's list of class skills. (Although if it wasn't, if the talent also granted the skill as a class skill, that would be an interesting idea!)

Not that I'm opposed to giving them Knowledge: Nobility... that sounds like a good idea.
Dark Archive Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere
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Got mine, now after quick look this looks like fun book with tons of new and fun options.

PAGE 86 ARTWORK THOUGH

Thank you, Paizo. My OTP lives on.
Silver Crusade
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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Not every vigilante was an aristocrat. Clark Kent was a journalist, Rorschach was a low-life.
Gorbacz wrote:
Not every vigilante was an aristocrat. Clark Kent was a journalist, Rorschach was a low-life.

Not all no. But considering how the social talents work, it's obviously intended so that you have reputation and sway in the social setting and generally that comes from being a noble. Being able to be an aristocrat is intended, especially since... the iconic is one. But you're going to be a poor aristocrat without any knowledge of how the nobility works.

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Knowledge: Nobility may not make sense for every character, but I do agree that it would make sense as an option.
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Background skills. Not sure if they're allowed in PFS but in normal games, game on.
Grand Lodge Contributor
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Pyromancer999 wrote:

Just finished up reading my PDF copy of this. This book is pretty amazing. It gives a lot of support for mystery-type games, and also has a bunch of other interesting things.

** spoiler omitted **

Most of the material in this book was pretty great, but the stuff in the spoiler was what stuck out to me the most. This was a really well-made book, and I had somewhat high expectations when I started to read it. It was a privilege to read and I can't wait to use it in my next game.

I'm glad to hear you like the druid archetypes! I intentionally chose the replaced abilities so that it's possible to combine the two archetypes for an infiltrator/poisoner (or Mystique/Poison Ivy) super-archetype.

Where was the Occult Adventure facts located?
Gorbacz wrote:
Not every vigilante was an aristocrat. Clark Kent was a journalist, Rorschach was a low-life.

Those are bad examples and got nothing to do with Pathfinder or Golarion.

You probably have the knowledge to do a lot better there^^
Dragon78 wrote:
Where was the Occult Adventure facts located?

In the FAQ section, with all the other FAQ's.

SInce there are two books coming up saying they have more talents for vigilantes, I'm hoping for more varied social talents. Maybe even some that lend themselves to my vigilante with a student social identity.
Silver Crusade
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Hayato Ken wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Not every vigilante was an aristocrat. Clark Kent was a journalist, Rorschach was a low-life.

Those are bad examples and got nothing to do with Pathfinder or Golarion.

You probably have the knowledge to do a lot better there^^

Excuse you?

Those were perfectly fine examples, how do they have nothing to do with Pathfinder or Golarion?

If you're going off them being from a different setting then, well, that excludes all vigilantes.
jedi8187 wrote:

SInce there are two books coming up saying they have more talents for vigilantes, I'm hoping for more varied social talents. Maybe even some that lend themselves to my vigilante with a student social identity.

Well, the Spymaster's Handbook says there will be more social talents at least. Inner Sea Intrigue just says talents for vigilantes in general, so not sure whether or not they're social or vigilante talents. Masked Personas might be what some people have been asking for, though...something like an Amateur Vigilante feat?

After peering at the Metamorph archtype for the alchemist class, I notice that nothing replaces the bonus Brew Potion feat.
However, the Brew Potion feat becomes quite useless, seeing as the metamorph archtypes replaces the alchemist's extracts, as thus, making you entirely unable to use Brew Potion for anything.

Is this an error?
Pathfinder LO Special Edition, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

If the reason to have Brew Potion is to be able to make extracts, and the archetype replaces extracts with something else, then having Brew Potion to make extracts is pointless. But cannot BP be used to make other things?
Ed Reppert wrote:
If the reason to have Brew Potion is to be able to make extracts, and the archetype replaces extracts with something else, then having Brew Potion to make extracts is pointless. But cannot BP be used to make other things?

"Can a character with Brew Potion create a potion of any spell he knows simply by adding +5 to the DC, even without preparing it?

No. When creating potions, the crafter must prepare and expend the spell used by the potion as part of its creation. This is an exception to the normal rules that allow a caster to skip one of the prerequisites for crafting an item by adding +5 to the DC."

There are a select few items that can be made with the Brew Potion feat that aren't actually potions, but it's mostly useless. Brew Potions was never used to make extracts, though.

The issue is, rather, that an alchemist need to use his extracts to produce potions with the BP feat. So, seeing as this archtype trades them away, it becomes a remnant of the base-class and is totally useless to the metamorph.
Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Anguish wrote:
Background skills. Not sure if they're allowed in PFS but in normal games, game on.

Or, more to the point, there are numerous traits that grant various skills as class skills. Unfortunately, the ones that grant Knowledge (Nobility) are just a bit too specific for general use. Maybe Inner Sea Intrigue will fix that?

Silver Crusade

Hmm, curious, can the Safe House Vigilante talent be used on a moveable area, such as a carriage or one of those magical tents whose specific name escapes me atm?
Nohwear wrote:
Knowledge: Nobility may not make sense for every character, but I do agree that it would make sense as an option.

I'm making it official in my homebrew that Knowledge: Nobility is a class skill.

I'm liking the rules for Individual and Organizational Influence, enough so that I'm going to throw them into an existing game I have.

It'd be nice to have a blank social stat sheet for individuals, something so we can print out and fill in the blanks and make something like the spy presented on 108/109.
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I think there are some flaws in Dragon78's review:

Quote:
-I like the idea of the Vigilante class but taking most of the options out of the base and making them prestige classes was a mistake. If we had most those options in the base class you get really interesting concepts. Plus making some abilities avenger or stalker only limited the choices of those prestige classes.

There are no prestige classes in the book, and it is strange if you are referring to the archetypes since the concepts of those archetypes don't entirely fit with the standard vigilante's flavour. I mean, many of the talents that are archetype-restricted only make sense for spellcasting vigilantes.

Quote:
-No feats that give extra skill points

That's not really a flaw for the book, unless you consider this a flaw of every single book and would lower the reviewing score for all the paizo books because of it?

Quote:
-Still no polymorph spells to change into fey, oozes, constructs, and outsider subtypes other then elementals.

Again, not a flaw for this book unless you also lower your reviewing score for all books because of this. Especially since those things do not really fit the theme of intrigue...

There are other things in the review I disagree with, but those are a matter of preference so it'd be rather jerky of me to post argument against :P
Victor Ravenport wrote:
The issue is, rather, that an alchemist need to use his extracts to produce potions with the BP feat. So, seeing as this archtype trades them away, it becomes a remnant of the base-class and is totally useless to the metamorph.

It's pretty off-theme for the metamorph to have regardless, it would make more sense for it to be traded out for something specifically polymorph related.

Hayato Ken wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Not every vigilante was an aristocrat. Clark Kent was a journalist, Rorschach was a low-life.

Those are bad examples and got nothing to do with Pathfinder or Golarion.

You probably have the knowledge to do a lot better there^^

Well if it's Golarion specific examples of Vigilantes that aren't the iconic, my PFS playtest vigilante is a well-known actor with the Opparan opera company in his social persona, but I imagine PCs don't count.

Contributor
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djones wrote:
Hayato Ken wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Not every vigilante was an aristocrat. Clark Kent was a journalist, Rorschach was a low-life.

Those are bad examples and got nothing to do with Pathfinder or Golarion.

You probably have the knowledge to do a lot better there^^
Well if it's Golarion specific examples of Vigilantes that aren't the iconic, my PFS playtest vigilante is a well-known actor with the Opparan opera company in his social persona, but I imagine PCs don't count.

The thing is, the vigilante class is REALLY good at mirroring a Dexter-type character; someone who can put on social graces by day, but goes around murdering people by night.

In fact, the stalker is SO good at being Dexter, from the emphasize on fear and nonlethal damage, to special abilities based around catching people unaware, that to me, personally, the stalker specialization is less "Batman," and more "serial killer."

Bringing back to Golarion, ANY of the ghosts of Harrowstone could have been excellent examples of characters who were vigilantes in life.

As I continue to read through the archetypes, it is interesting how many of them remind me of famous Pulp heroes. For example, the Enigma Mesmerist reminds me of The Shadow. Although, this could be because the Vigilante has caused me to think a lot about the Pulps.
Silver Crusade
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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps Subscriber
Victor Ravenport wrote:
The issue is, rather, that an alchemist need to use his extracts to produce potions with the BP feat. So, seeing as this archtype trades them away, it becomes a remnant of the base-class and is totally useless to the metamorph.

Not totally useless... it could be used to qualify for other archetypes. For example, it's still compatible with Grenadier and Blazing Torchbearer(!), if I'm comparing the lists right.

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Alexander Augunas wrote:

The thing is, the vigilante class is REALLY good at mirroring a Dexter-type character; someone who can put on social graces by day, but goes around murdering people by night.

In fact, the stalker is SO good at being Dexter, from the emphasize on fear and nonlethal damage, to special abilities based around catching people unaware, that to me, personally, the stalker specialization is less "Batman," and more "serial killer."

Bringing back to Golarion, ANY of the ghosts of Harrowstone could have been excellent examples of characters who were vigilantes in life.

I was getting a serial killer vibe from the class myself. Not to mention the idea of a 'reverse Scarlet Pimpernel' vigilante who rouses the mob against the aristocracy, only to betray the people to their destruction to rid society of the pestilent rebels.

Terminalmancer wrote:
Victor Ravenport wrote:
The issue is, rather, that an alchemist need to use his extracts to produce potions with the BP feat. So, seeing as this archtype trades them away, it becomes a remnant of the base-class and is totally useless to the metamorph.
Not totally useless... it could be used to qualify for other archetypes. For example, it's still compatible with Grenadier and Blazing Torchbearer(!), if I'm comparing the lists right.

Only Blazing Torchbearer, both Metamorph and Grenadier get rid of Swift Poisoning.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32
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Nohwear wrote:
As I continue to read through the archetypes, it is interesting how many of them remind me of famous Pulp heroes. For example, the Enigma Mesmerist reminds me of The Shadow. Although, this could be because the Vigilante has caused me to think a lot about the Pulps.

Being The Shadow happens a lot in this book - the Cipher Investigator would also be pretty good at being The Shadow. The aura of the unremarkable and hidden presence play up that angle as well.

Liberty's Edge

Just piping in...I really like the Vigilante class. I mostly play PFS and I'm a little unsure how it will play out with PC Vigilantes at the table; but I really look forward to how it will get incorporated into scenarios. I think Vigilantes are an obvious fit for followers of Razmira and I hope they get a good archetype in one of the future splat books (of course the Zealot archetype kind of covers this). There's also the Gray Gardeners of Galt, maybe the Mordant Spire elves, and of course the Decemvirate. I can see NPC Vigilantes being great hooks for a lot of stories.

Hey, can't I just take one level of Vigilante to get the dual identity, and then just multiclass into whatever I want?
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Axial wrote:
Hey, can't I just take one level of Vigilante to get the dual identity, and then just multiclass into whatever I want?

Yes. However if all you want is the dual identity one of the upcoming books (Inner Sea Intrigue iirc) advertises masked identities for anyone.

Liberty's Edge

Pardon me, but I had a question, the Secret Broker loses magic circle, but keeps outside contact. So how does that work for them considering Outside contact is dependent upon the circles?
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You know, these classes sound like they'd be perfect for vampire NPC's with teh ability to have two, relatively separate lives.
Liberty's Edge
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Alexander Augunas wrote:
djones wrote:
Hayato Ken wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Not every vigilante was an aristocrat. Clark Kent was a journalist, Rorschach was a low-life.

Those are bad examples and got nothing to do with Pathfinder or Golarion.

You probably have the knowledge to do a lot better there^^
Well if it's Golarion specific examples of Vigilantes that aren't the iconic, my PFS playtest vigilante is a well-known actor with the Opparan opera company in his social persona, but I imagine PCs don't count.

The thing is, the vigilante class is REALLY good at mirroring a Dexter-type character; someone who can put on social graces by day, but goes around murdering people by night.

In fact, the stalker is SO good at being Dexter, from the emphasize on fear and nonlethal damage, to special abilities based around catching people unaware, that to me, personally, the stalker specialization is less "Batman," and more "serial killer."

Bringing back to Golarion, ANY of the ghosts of Harrowstone could have been excellent examples of characters who were vigilantes in life.

One thing I personally noted when you made the comparison to Dexter is that an antipaladin of calistra could potentially be portrayed in a similar fashion. They are murderers that target those that have committed act act that needs avenging, usually other murderers. The difference is of course one of the split between full time killing and off-time killing. Still makes me want to play a vigilante that serves calistra and uses her talents and abilities to punish those that deserve vengeance for what they have done.

The Golden Hornet shall punish the deserving, regardless of stature, position, wealth or power. Vengeance shall be done.
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Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Hmmm. Let's list three individuals who fit—and in at least two cases are being retroactively made—the Vigilante class and are already established in Golarion lore:

Chopper: Jervis Stoot, a skilled wood sculptor and carpenter of Sandpoint who secretly worshipped Pazuzu and became a serial killer to sacrifice victims to his demon-god.

Black Jack: A black-garbed hero of the people of Korvosa, he has been around for about 200 years, righting wrongs and fighting for the common man. Speculation is that he actually a title and costume passed from one generation to the next.

Secret Identity*:
The speculation is true and the current holder of the title is Vencarlo Orisini, sword master and teacher at the Orisini Academy.

Red Raven: Aric, a son of executed nobles of Galt, grew up believing in the ideals of the Red Revolution and an opponent of the corruption that continually seemed to plague the various governments that followed. Disguised as the Red Raven, Aric has attempted to bring down the corrupt and unjust in order to preserve the values and ideals he believes in.

That's just three. All-in-all, Golarion is rife with such figures modelled on the Scarlet Pimpernel, Zorro, the Black Fox (The Court Jester is a film pretty much everyone should see), and—on the dark side—serial killers.

*put in spoilers as the Curse of the Crimson Throne is coming back in hardcover and Black Jack is an important part of the story.

I heard they're actually swapping Blackjack's classes a bit to include vigilante.
Silver Crusade

Anyone Know the race of the Woman on page 68? Probably Elf, but the hair suggests Gnome. Though Half-Elf is also a Possibility. LOVE the Design. Going to take a shot at making a Mini of her for my Upcoming run through the Emerald Spire. Green isn't even my Color just really like the look and feel of the Art.
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Bryce Kineman wrote:
Anyone Know the race of the Woman on page 68? Probably Elf, but the hair suggests Gnome. Though Half-Elf is also a Possibility. LOVE the Design. Going to take a shot at making a Mini of her for my Upcoming run through the Emerald Spire. Green isn't even my Color just really like the look and feel of the Art.

I'm pretty sure given the proportions, hair color, and the style of the eyebrows and eyes, it's a gnome.

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I took it for a gnome, myself.
Silver Crusade Contributor
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I'm about 99% sure the secret broker is a gnome.

The one I'm curious about is the majordomo, the redhead on page 35... the stature seems too short for human (although not impossible) and her features don't seem exaggerated enough for a gnome (see above). My first thought is halfling, but I kind of want to believe that she's a dwarf. ^_^

I completely agree, I thought she was a halfling, then put a 20% chance she's meant to be a dwarf. Then I dropped it to 5% because I imagined a halfing being a major domo on a Chelish estate and figured that's the most likely intent.
Silver Crusade

My vote is for Dwarf as well. She's nice and stocky :3
Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Actually, she seems to have pointed ears if you look carefully. So I think she is, in fact, a Halfling.
Silver Crusade
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Feros wrote:
Actually, she seems to have pointed ears if you look carefully. So I think she is, in fact, a Halfling.

Eh, maybe, but the way the head is turned makes me think it isn't that pointy, just the angle.

I still vote for Dwarf. We need more sexy Dwarven men and women!

And redheads! Always need more sexy redheads.
Scarab Sages
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gharlane wrote:

You know, these classes sound like they'd be perfect for vampire NPC's with teh ability to have two, relatively separate lives.

Thanks for the great idea. *Yoink* Now that I've read it, I'll have to use it at some point.

Persistent minor background NPC? Secret vampire.

The Venture Captain who's been sending the PCs on missions since 1st level? Secret vampire.

Fun, fun, fun.
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Feros wrote:

Hmmm. Let's list three individuals who fit—and in at least two cases are being retroactively made—the Vigilante class and are already established in Golarion lore:

Chopper: Jervis Stoot, a skilled wood sculptor and carpenter of Sandpoint who secretly worshipped Pazuzu and became a serial killer to sacrifice victims to his demon-god.

Black Jack: A black-garbed hero of the people of Korvosa, he has been around for about 200 years, righting wrongs and fighting for the common man. Speculation is that he actually a title and costume passed from one generation to the next. ** spoiler omitted **

Red Raven: Aric, a son of executed nobles of Galt, grew up believing in the ideals of the Red Revolution and an opponent of the corruption that continually seemed to plague the various governments that followed. Disguised as the Red Raven, Aric has attempted to bring down the corrupt and unjust in order to preserve the values and ideals he believes in.

That's just three. All-in-all, Golarion is rife with such figures modelled on the Scarlet Pimpernel, Zorro, the Black Fox (The Court Jester is a film pretty much everyone should see), and—on the dark side—serial killers.

*put in spoilers as the Curse of the Crimson Throne is coming back in hardcover and Black Jack is an important part of the story.

Though he's a (nascent) demon lord now, the Nightripper sounds like he could have been an evil vigilante back in the day. One identity was a Taldan soldier, but the other was a mass murdering fiend.

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