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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Intrigue (PFRPG)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Intrigue (PFRPG)
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Words Cut Deep

In the right setting, a single scathing word can prove deadlier than a poisoned dagger. Behind the scenes of heroic battles and magical realms lies a seething underbelly of danger and deception. This world of intrigue holds endless possibilities for adventure, as heroes duel with words instead of steel, plot daring heists, and engage in battles of wills against relentless nemeses. A high-stakes game of shadows and secrets is yours to master—if you have the wits!

Whether the heroes are taming the blood-soaked back alleys of their favorite metropolis or jockeying for the queen's favor alongside highborn nobles, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Intrigue is an invaluable companion to the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon more than 10 years of system development and an Open Playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into a new era.

Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Intrigue includes:

  • The vigilante, a new character class that lives two lives—that of an unassuming member of the community, and a cloaked crusader with his own agenda!
  • New archetypes for alchemists, bards, druids, hunters, inquisitors, investigators, mesmerists, rangers, rogues, slayers, spiritualists, and more!
  • New feats and magic items for characters of all sorts, granting mastery of street-smart combat, impenetrable disguises, and misdirection.
  • Dozens of spells to manipulate tense social settings, whether to reveal adversaries' secrets or hide the truth.
  • A complete system of influence, providing new goals and rewards to challenge players and link their fortunes to nonplayer characters and organizations.
  • Systems and advice to help Game Masters introduce a variety of new encounters into their games­—daring heists, extended pursuits, and tense searches for buried secrets.
  • Rules for social combat and verbal duels, allowing characters to use words as weapons to sway hearts and humiliate foes.
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-826-7

Other Resources: This product is also available on the following platforms:

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Fantasy Grounds Virtual Tabletop
Archives of Nethys

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A Must-Have for Heavy RP Games

5/5 —

Okay, let's get into Ultimate Intrigue! As the title implies, the purpose of this book is to help flesh out more subtle elements of the game: things like spreading rumors, rallying a crowd, stealing secrets, and other classic cloak-and-dagger stuff. I've used bits and pieces of it in previous campaigns, but read through it carefully (and incorporated a fair bit of it) for my current Curse of the Crimson Throne campaign, as that adventure path is designed around urban political strife. Boiled down to brass tacks, the book is a 256 page hardcover comprised of six chapters. The full-colour artwork is very strong throughout, and the cover is great (though Merisiel's legs are like three times longer than her torso!). There's a very short two-page introduction that summarises each chapter--which is what I'm going to do anyway.

Chapter 1 is "Classes" (60 pages). The big deal here is a new base case, the Vigilante. The concept is that the character has both a normal (social) identity and a masked identity, with certain class options only working while in the associated guise. There are also several safeguards to help keep anyone from figuring out that Bruce Wayne is really Batman. I have a Vigilante character in Pathfinder Society, and one of my players runs one in Curse of the Crimson Throne. I think the class is perfect for an urban campaign mostly set in a single city (especially with lots room for intrigue), but it doesn't work as well with the more traditional "travelling adventuring party" campaign. It's a bit too obvious when five newcomers arrive in town, only for one of them to "disappear" and a new costumed avenger show up. I know there are also some gamers who dislike what can seem like the awkward introduction of comic book super heroes into their fantasy role-playing. For me, I think the concept works well--though as I said, only in particular types of campaigns.

A large chunk of the chapter is devoted to new archetypes for other classes. More specifically, alchemists, bards, cavaliers, druids, inquisitors, investigators, mesmerists, rangers, rogues, skalds, spiritualists, swashbucklers, and vigilantes get some love. Frankly, a lot of the archetypes are fairly forgettable, but there are exceptions--for example, a Daring General Cavalier would be great in military campaigns, the Dandy Ranger could be really useful in an urban campaign, and a couple of the vigilante archetypes are perfect if you want to play the Hulk or Spider-Man. Although the rogue archetypes aren't very good, there are several excellent rogue talents that focus on making the character harder to track through divination, etc. It's worth nothing that this book came out during the period when the hardcover line was still setting-neutral, so there won't be any Golarion-specific flavour with the archetypes (for better or worse depending on your preferences).

Chapter 2 is "Feats" (24 pages). There's something like 110 new feats in the chapter, and probably something for everyone. Given the book's theme, many of the feats are related to sneaking around, hiding and disguising spells, stealing stuff, making plans, figuring out when you're being to lied to, etc. A few that I particularly like include Brilliant Planner (giving you the chance to have just what you need just when you need it), Call Truce (giving a slim chance to actually end combat peacefully when its underway), and Drunkard's Recovery (silly but fun). A couple of important feats are Conceal Spell (which hides the pesky manifestations that spells create in Pathfinder) and Fencing Grace (adding Dex to damage with rapiers, a favourite of swashbucklers everywhere). Overall, I thought the options presented were well-written and plausible in terms of desirability.

Chapter 3 is "Mastering Intrigue" (68 pages). This is probably the most important chapter in the book for GMs. It offers tons of useful advice, as well as clarification on some tricky game mechanics, to help run intrigue-based games. The pages about how common magic spells can be handled while still preserving mysteries, secrets, and misdirection is pure gold. The chapter also introduces seven new rules sub-systems, any or all of which can be incorporated into a campaign to flesh out certain aspects of gameplay. "Influence" is a sub-system that deepens the process of persuading a person or organisation to support you. Instead of a simple single Dipomacy check, PCs need to make certain skill checks to learn a person's interests and weaknesses, and then other skill checks to take advantage of what they've learned. The process operates through multiple phases of tracked successes and failures, and can be tied to mechanical favours and benefits. It's become a very popular facet of many Pathfinder Society scenarios, and I think it's a pretty clever way to handle things--though it can be a bit clunky at first. "Heists" is a sub-system that contains some excellent advice to GMs on how to structure things so players don't obsess over unimportant trivia and are willing to violate that old canard of "don't split the party." "Infiltration" contains some quick advice, but that's about it. "Leadership" deepens the feat of the same name, adding lots of rules for interacting with other sub-systems both in this book and in Ultimate Campaign. I'm personally still not persuaded that the Leadership feat chain is a good inclusion to the game. "Nemeses" is all about adding a recurring villain; I think it's trying to systematise something that could be handled just fine without it. Though there are some fun suggestions on evil plots to foil. "Pursuit" is a little like the Chase sub-system from the GameMastery Guide but stretched out over hours and days cross-country instead of in minutes through alleyways. I could imagine using it. "Research" is probably my favourite of the sub-systems, and one I've used in multiple campaigns. In essence, it gives the PCs a reason to use things like libraries and archives by giving them bonuses to their Knowledge checks, but then makes gaining different thresholds of information the result of multiple successful checks. Overall, a great chapter--I wish the Influence and Research sub-systems had been in the Core Rulebook, because they really add a lot to the non-combat aspects of the game.

Chapter 4 is "Social Combat" (25 pages). The idea here is to present GMs with options on how to handle social conflicts--things like debates, trials, cutting repartee, etc. There's also a "verbal duels" sub-system. I'm just not sure about it--it's something I'd have to see in practice. However, a really useful part of the chapter is advice to the GM on how to handle the various social skills in the game--Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Sense Motive--as well as the intrigue skills like Disguise, Perception, and Stealth. The advice here is excellent, and I just stopped in the middle of this review to reread it.

Chapter 5 is "Spells" (40 pages). You can judge from the length of the chapter that there's a ton of new spells, and every spellcasting class will find something. One of the fun things the chapter introduces is a new "ruse" descriptor for spells, which means the spell is easily mistaken for another even by observers trained in Spellcraft or Knowledge (arcana). It's a good way to mislead folks who have played way too much Pathfinder. There are some really clever spells in this section, with a couple of my favourites including false resurrection (instead of bringing back a soul, you stuff a demon into the body!) and the hilarious shamefully overdressed.

Chapter 6 is "Gear and Magic Items" (22 pages). There are some new mundane pieces of equipment (weapons like the cool wrist dart launcher, alchemical items, etc.) but most of the chapter is new magic items with an intrigue theme. The one that really stuck out at me was the launcher of distraction, which is perfect for assassination attempts because it makes it seem like the attack is coming from somewhere else.

Overall, I think Ultimate Intrigue is an excellent book. It's pretty much a must-have in my opinion for any campaign that's going to involve a lot of role-playing or that moves beyond traditional dungeon crawling and wilderness encounters. Even readers not involved in "intrigue campaigns" per se are sure to find plenty of material they can use.

1/5 —

Don't get me wrong I love Paizo books, I love their work, and I'm proud to own almost all of their publications.

However, Ultimate Intrigue is the one book I regret buying. It's even more than that, it's the one book i regret they ever published.

We need rules and systems, ok. We need a magic system because magic isn't a real thing. We need a combat system otherwise playing with your grilfriend become home abuse. But we don't need a social system because it's a ROLEPLAYING game. Either you want intrigue heavy campaign and you roleplay them, or you want to dungeon crawl or investigate (that's fine too) and you don't play intrigues. You can even do both and it's great.

Aside from that massive problem, the book suffers from "a turn normal actions into feats/class ability" syndrome. I can't count the number of time where players made me fighters to wizards or rogues with a dual identity. We didn't need the Vigilante, and still don't. And I loved when wizard use to get clever and ask for linguistics/bluff roll to blend a spell into a phrase. Now you need a feat for it. Thanks, Ultimate Intrigue. If that was not enough, some of these nonsense feat are built in feat tax chains.

But the one thing I hate the most about this book is the stupid FAQ it bestowed upon us to promote itself (https://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9tza). That makes a whole school of magic (illusion) utterly useless, and destroys a lot of others (enchantment).

Now I know I can just refuse to use it. But i use to love pathfinder for the clarity and perfect sense with out need to houserule much.

Now it's gone.

I'm tired of paizo trying to stuff this book down our face

1/5 —

If I was playing a home campaign this book might be more fitting,

For society play this verbal debate and other ideas for this book really bog down the game play. I like social aspect of games and role playing but as I said society play it slows the game way down to try and get people up to snuff on the mechanics

An amazing new class in a hit and miss supplement

4/5 —

So, Ultimate Intrigue took a long time for me to come to a complete opinion on.

The Vigilante class introduced in this book is, in my opinion, easily the best non-spellcasting class Paizo has ever created. It breaks up its social options and combat options in such a way that you have a great character able to participate in all areas of the game without having to choose whether you want to be competent in combat or in the myriad other facets of the game like exploration, social encounters, etc. It has deep and well-designed talents that allow you to pick any of a variety of different ways to participate in combat, with or without weapons, and numerous tools for allowing players to influence the story with safe houses, contacts, and more.

At PAX Prime 2016 I had the opportunity to visit Paizo's Pathfinder demo area and play their pregenerated vigilante character. I honestly didn't expect it to go terribly well; after all, the vigilante is a class built around balancing two identities and moving between different social strata, so you'd think that this would require a more controlled environment where you know the other players in advance and have time to plan out how your character fits into the game world with your GM ahead of time, right? Turns out, I was wrong. The vigilante class is well-crafted enough that even while playing a 1st level pregen I was able to easily deal with situations in and out of combat, and it took me about 60 seconds of conversation to establish with the group that I had a secret identity they were privy to and might need them to cover for my character from time to time if he needed to swap identities. It didn't hurt matters that the only downside to anyone learning a vigilante's secret identity is that, well, they know his or her secret identity. You can go all Tony Stark if you want, announce that you are Iron Man, and carry on as normal. Very few of the vigilante's abilities actually require you to maintain truly secret identities, and the only real hit you take is that you're a bit easier to find by magical means (though even this can be addressed with clever use of the Safe House Social Talent).

The book also elaborates on the intent behind numerous spells that often prove problematic for GMs in games where they want to have a focus on gritty investigation of mystery, such as the various detect spells, speak with dead, etc.

I think my biggest disappointments with the book, and the reason I can't give it 5 stars, lie in the feats and archetypes. I'll start with the feats, and a bit about why I see most of them as representative of missed opportunities.

To start with, Pathfinder's skill system is heavily dated. When Paizo brought it over from 3.5, they combined a few extraneous skills, but otherwise did little to update things, meaning the core area of the rules covering everything in the game that isn't casting spells or hitting things is now well over a decade old and out of date. Several skills don't even actually work, or work well, as written, have interactions you're just supposed to kind of assume or make up (Ride and Handle Animal are a mess, Stealth requires one to check out FAQs and blog posts online to use as intended, Bluff and Diplomacy have more than a few vague areas and inconsistencies, etc.), so what better book to address, update, and expand these core components of the game than a book about playing skill and intrigue heavy campaigns? Unfortunately, Paizo chose not to go that route, instead relying on feats to stretch skills over their gaps and issues, leading to many of the feats in the this book providing skill uses that I've seen GMs at hundreds of tables houserule as basic functions of those skills to begin with. Instead of formalizing intuitive uses of existing skills into their basic function, they added a feat tax to allow characters to do things many people already thought they could do. While there is a section in the book going over several of the vague areas in a few key skills, these are primarily common sense clarifications instead of the full address the skills could have used.

The archetypes, like many Paizo hardcovers, are all over the place. Some of them are interesting and dynamic, like the Masked Performer bard archetype, some show an attempt at embodying a cool and modern concept but fail to achieve that concept in the actual execution, like the Magical Child vigilante archetype, and some are just plain bad, so obviously terribly designed that you almost wonder if the person who wrote them has ever actually played Pathfinder, like the Brute vigilante archetype.

Now, don't let the above wall of negativity mislead you; there is a lot of great stuff in this book, including perhaps the most inspired and well-crafted class Paizo has ever produced, a class that introduces really interesting design concepts, plays with components of the class chassis we haven't seen classes treat as quite so malleable before, and is a genuinely fun and interesting class to play in and of itself. Despite many of the feats ranging from useless to frustrating, there are still quite a few that are interesting and viable, and while the archetypes are very hit or miss, that's generally true of Paizo books in general and probably shouldn't be held against this one in particular.

My final verdict on Ultimate Intrigue is 4 stars, and a strong recommendation to pick it up, if for no other reason than to add the Vigilante class to your game (though there definitely are other reasons to add this book to your collection).

Pathfinder presents Batman!

4/5 —

No seriously. The vigilante class is freaking batman. Look at the art for chapter one and for the character. HE'S BATMAN. Of course they also have archetypes if you want to make Hulk, Sailor Moon, even He-Man. With the archetypes from other books the list goes on.
My favorite part, and I cannot wait to test this properly in a game, is the social combat. It works a lot like playing craps or roulette. You get a pool of Determination points which you use to place a bet then you roll off with your social skills check! Seriously it sounds like lots of fun!

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not exactly a specific question for UI I guess, but what timeframe are pdfs usually up for purchase? just wondering if I should stay awake all night to read through it (dont know what timezone paizo is in, but i'm in est/edt if that helps at all)

also, for the vigilante is it possible to be an avenger and warlock or is the abilities granted by avenger the stuff traded out for warlock?

as for the no invisibility thing, I guess we could just go samsaran and grab it that way
Silver Crusade

Don't know about release time (if your East Coast Paizo is 3 hours behind you), but the Warlock replaced specialization so no Avenger unfortunately.
Pathfinder LO Special Edition, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Paizo is Pacific time, three hours earlier than you (or me). IIRC, the PDFs will be available tomorrow for non-subscribers.

The PDFs normally go on sale at midnight Pacific time, so if you are live in the eastern United States that would be around 3 a.m.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
bewareoftom wrote:

not exactly a specific question for UI I guess, but what timeframe are pdfs usually up for purchase? just wondering if I should stay awake all night to read through it (dont know what timezone paizo is in, but i'm in est/edt if that helps at all)

also, for the vigilante is it possible to be an avenger and warlock or is the abilities granted by avenger the stuff traded out for warlock?

as for the no invisibility thing, I guess we could just go samsaran and grab it that way

Zealot does have access to Invisibility as per the spell, just not as an at-will ability from a talent.

I think the only way a Vigilante can get nature themed powers other than via the Wildsoul archetype would be if he a Zealot is allowed to take a domain for his inquisition and then selects either the Animal domain or the Plant domain. However, while anyone who has access to a domain can take an inquisition instead, I am not sure whether a Zealot vigilante can do the reverse, as his Inquisition class feature specifies selection on an inquisition and does not mention domains.
Silver Crusade
David knott 242 wrote:

I think the only way a Vigilante can get nature themed powers other than via the Wildsoul archetype would be if he a Zealot is allowed to take a domain for his inquisition and then selects either the Animal domain or the Plant domain. However, while anyone who has access to a domain can take an inquisition instead, I am not sure whether a Zealot vigilante can do the reverse, as his Inquisition class feature specifies selection on an inquisition and does not mention domains.

I would say no, regrettably, cause while you can step down from Domains (abilities and spells) to Inquisitions (just abilities), I don't think it was intended for a person to be able to trade up.

David knott 242 wrote:

The PDFs normally go on sale at midnight Pacific time, so if you are live in the eastern United States that would be around 3 a.m.

awesome thanks!

and I guess thats what I get for skimming everything, I thought you guys meant the spell list :P
Xethik wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Feros wrote:

Yep that is the progression exactly. In addition:

** spoiler omitted **

Awesome. That puts it only one point below Good Will Save progression, and generally makes the Swashbuckler [i]much[i] more viable in a lot of games.

Plus actually being good at social skills in a pinch. Though they'll need to alternate them with combat to recover Panache properly.

And also, I'm a huge fan of the flavor. I'm in on playing this Archetype. Whenever I get the chance, anyway.

I fully agree. The only thing I would want different about it is having some way to restore panache when you "win" at social combat (in addition to the regular ways of course), though since I haven't seen the specifics of that rule set yet I wouldn't know how that would be done.
Just have them gain a point whenever they win a verbal duel, and you're set. I wrote that archetype after playing a swashbuckler in Skull and Shackles for a while, and I'm glad people like it. I didn't put that bit about verbal duels and panache in there in part because I didn't feel it was worth it to have it alter panache, and that would alter panache.

More of a rhetorical question than a real one: If you added a separate ability that was something like:

Inspiring Debate: At 3rd level, each time a Noble Fencer wins a verbal duel, she regains 1 panache point.

Would that be considered to altered the panache class feature? I guess based on this faq it would.

Which is too bad. Ah well; seems like in a home game it would be an easy sell.

I might have actually built into social combat ways to regain Panache/Grit/Sleuth Investigators' Luck; that wouldn't change panache because it's part of the combat system.

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
The Golux wrote:
Xethik wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Feros wrote:

Yep that is the progression exactly. In addition:

** spoiler omitted **

Awesome. That puts it only one point below Good Will Save progression, and generally makes the Swashbuckler [i]much[i] more viable in a lot of games.

Plus actually being good at social skills in a pinch. Though they'll need to alternate them with combat to recover Panache properly.

And also, I'm a huge fan of the flavor. I'm in on playing this Archetype. Whenever I get the chance, anyway.

I fully agree. The only thing I would want different about it is having some way to restore panache when you "win" at social combat (in addition to the regular ways of course), though since I haven't seen the specifics of that rule set yet I wouldn't know how that would be done.
Just have them gain a point whenever they win a verbal duel, and you're set. I wrote that archetype after playing a swashbuckler in Skull and Shackles for a while, and I'm glad people like it. I didn't put that bit about verbal duels and panache in there in part because I didn't feel it was worth it to have it alter panache, and that would alter panache.

More of a rhetorical question than a real one: If you added a separate ability that was something like:

Inspiring Debate: At 3rd level, each time a Noble Fencer wins a verbal duel, she regains 1 panache point.

Would that be considered to altered the panache class feature? I guess based on this faq it would.

Which is too bad. Ah well; seems like in a home game it would be an easy sell.

I might have actually built into social combat ways to regain Panache/Grit/Sleuth Investigators' Luck; that wouldn't change panache because it's part of the combat system.

Yeah, that sounds like a cleaner way of handling it, anyways. I believe there was Daring Acts & Deeds sidebar in some book that did this for reckless actions. Never heard of anyone using that but same concept.

Silver Crusade Contributor

I've given a gunslinger grit for doing ridiculous things on occasion. The one I remember, he ran down a bar past three enemies to shoot someone in the face.

Good times. ^_^
Designer
1 person marked this as a favorite.
Xethik wrote:
The Golux wrote:
Xethik wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Feros wrote:

Yep that is the progression exactly. In addition:

** spoiler omitted **

Awesome. That puts it only one point below Good Will Save progression, and generally makes the Swashbuckler much[i] more viable in a lot of games.

Plus actually being good at social skills in a pinch. Though they'll need to alternate them with combat to recover Panache properly.

And also, I'm a huge fan of the flavor. I'm in on playing this Archetype. Whenever I get the chance, anyway.

I fully agree. The only thing I would want different about it is having some way to restore panache when you "win" at social combat (in addition to the regular ways of course), though since I haven't seen the specifics of that rule set yet I wouldn't know how that would be done.
Just have them gain a point whenever they win a verbal duel, and you're set. I wrote that archetype after playing a swashbuckler in Skull and Shackles for a while, and I'm glad people like it. I didn't put that bit about verbal duels and panache in there in part because I didn't feel it was worth it to have it alter panache, and that would alter panache.

More of a rhetorical question than a real one: If you added a separate ability that was something like:

Inspiring Debate: At 3rd level, each time a Noble Fencer wins a verbal duel, she regains 1 panache point.

Would that be considered to altered the panache class feature? I guess based on this faq it would.

Which is too bad. Ah well; seems like in a home game it would be an easy sell.

I might have actually built into social combat ways to regain Panache/Grit/Sleuth Investigators' Luck; that wouldn't change panache because it's part of the combat system.
Yeah, that sounds like a cleaner way of handling it, anyways. I believe there was Daring Acts &[/i]...

Yep, I believe Daring Acts is right in as a sidebar in the gunslinger class section of Ultimate Combat. Winning a verbal duel seems like a daring act most of the time (and if it wasn't, like verbal dueling a vastly inferior opponent, then it makes sense not to gain panache), so I figured it works on its own in that regard.

Also, one more day!!

With zealot no longer able to get nature powers or at-will invisibility.... Is there any reason for zealot to exist other than, they decided to make it a vigilante archetype rather than just making it an inquisitor archetype?
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mark Seifter wrote:
Yep, I believe Daring Acts is right in as a sidebar in the gunslinger class section of Ultimate Combat. Winning a verbal duel seems like a daring act most of the time (and if it wasn't, like verbal dueling a vastly inferior opponent, then it makes sense not to gain panache), so I figured it works on its own in that regard.

I'll take it!

I was just looking over the Mesmerist info and man I'm so close to loving Enigma. Really sad it loses Painful Stare. The Sneak Attack it gets is pretty comparable, I suppose... Man, it would be great if they could get Sense Vitals, too.

That's a Ranger spell, right? Fey Trickster would have access, but isn't compatible due to both replacing Rule Minds. Maaaan. So close... so close...

Definitely like both archetypes, though! Great job with both of those.
Designer
1 person marked this as a favorite.
Xethik wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Yep, I believe Daring Acts is right in as a sidebar in the gunslinger class section of Ultimate Combat. Winning a verbal duel seems like a daring act most of the time (and if it wasn't, like verbal dueling a vastly inferior opponent, then it makes sense not to gain panache), so I figured it works on its own in that regard.

I'll take it!

I was just looking over the Mesmerist info and man I'm so close to loving Enigma. Really sad it loses Painful Stare. The Sneak Attack it gets is pretty comparable, I suppose... Man, it would be great if they could get Sense Vitals, too.

That's a Ranger spell, right? Fey Trickster would have access, but isn't compatible due to both replacing Rule Minds. Maaaan. So close... so close...

Definitely like both archetypes, though! Great job with both of those.

Enigma was from the two awesome freelancers for that section (Robert Brookes and Jason Nelson), and I wrote Fey Trickster. They both seem like pretty different experiences from the basic mesmerist and fun to play, though I'm also amused by the idea of a vizier who makes the party's fighter look like some kind of gestalt mage-warrior.

Silver Crusade
Milo v3 wrote:
With zealot no longer able to get nature powers or at-will.... Is there any reason for zealot to exist other than, they decided to make it a vigilante archetype rather than just making it an inquisitor archetype?

Well, the Zealot gives the Vigilante Inquisitor abilities so it kinda can't be an Inquisitor archetype.

What it does give is nice, profiency with Deity's favored weapon and Inquisitor spellcasting, plus from talents you can get Channel, Stalwart, and Smite.

Come on Wednesday!
Thomas Seitz wrote:
Come on Wednesday!

?

Contributor
Milo v3 wrote:
With zealot no longer able to get nature powers or at-will invisibility.... Is there any reason for zealot to exist other than, they decided to make it a vigilante archetype rather than just making it an inquisitor archetype?

Actually, the zealot vigilante has a bunch of neat things that make it different from the inquisitor. They can channel energy like a cleric of their level –4, they can create an at-will consecration or desecration effect based on their alignment, and they can smite like a paladin (abet at a reduced uses per day progression) in addition to getting a few neat inquisitor abilities as potential talents as well as the entire roster of standard vigilante talents.

In exchange, they don't have flexibility in whether they can pick a domain or inquisition (inquisition only), they have fewer skill ranks per level (4 + Int instead of 6 + Int), and they get fewer abilities as they level up because they have to trade some talents for spellcasting.

Don't let the simplicity of the archetype fool you, its a good archetype. It just doesn't have anything flashy or unique like the other vigilante archetypes do.
Wednesday Daud wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:
Come on Wednesday!
?

*points to when the PDF of this will be released to the public*

Thomas Seitz wrote:
Wednesday Daud wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:
Come on Wednesday!
?
*points to when the PDF of this will be released to the public*

What do you want me to do about it?

Nothing. I merely stated I wanted Wednesday move here faster. Unless you can time travel, Rysky, I think I'm okay with just being impatient. :p
Silver Crusade

:3
Alexander Augunas wrote:

Actually, the zealot vigilante has a bunch of neat things that make it different from the inquisitor. They can channel energy like a cleric of their level –4, they can create an at-will consecration or desecration effect based on their alignment, and they can smite like a paladin (abet at a reduced uses per day progression) in addition to getting a few neat inquisitor abilities as potential talents as well as the entire roster of standard vigilante talents.

In exchange, they don't have flexibility in whether they can pick a domain or inquisition (inquisition only), they have fewer skill ranks per level (4 + Int instead of 6 + Int), and they get fewer abilities as they level up because they have to trade some talents for spellcasting.

Don't let the simplicity of the archetype fool you, its a good archetype. It just doesn't have anything flashy or unique like the other vigilante archetypes do.

Probably the main selling point is that you get a social identity and all the social talents that go along with it. If that's not a big deal to you, then Inquisitor is probably a better choice.

Wait the Zealot is down to 4+ int skills? Geez that's gonna hurt my character even more. I'm having to rework this character a lot.
Thomas Seitz wrote:
Nothing. I merely stated I wanted Wednesday move here faster. Unless you can time travel, Rysky, I think I'm okay with just being impatient. :p

Ah nuts, the time machine crashed about 9 hours early.

2 people marked this as a favorite.
djones wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:
Nothing. I merely stated I wanted Wednesday move here faster. Unless you can time travel, Rysky, I think I'm okay with just being impatient. :p
Ah nuts, the time machine crashed about 9 hours early.

I'm not the least bit surprised. Rip Hunter is the worst Time Master ever.

Dark Archive

Have I missed something or do a couple of the feats in the book not really do anything?

specificly the sense assumption/relationship ones since arent they already coverd by the sense motive skill anyway?
Rysky wrote:
Well, the Zealot gives the Vigilante Inquisitor abilities so it kinda can't be an Inquisitor archetype.

I meant an inquisitor archetype where it gets vigilante abilities, since it sounded like an inquisitor with a second identity rather than a vigilante with divine powers.

Alexander Augunas wrote:
Actually, the zealot vigilante has a bunch of neat things that make it different from the inquisitor. They can channel energy like a cleric of their level –4, they can create an at-will consecration or desecration effect based on their alignment, and they can smite like a paladin (abet at a reduced uses per day progression) in addition to getting a few neat inquisitor abilities as potential talents as well as the entire roster of standard vigilante talents.

Okay, good to here it has things that make it different.

Quote:
Don't let the simplicity of the archetype fool you, its a good archetype. It just doesn't have anything flashy or unique like the other vigilante archetypes do.

Well I still haven't seen the book so I was actually just comparing it to the old zealot :P

Thomas Seitz wrote:
Come on Wednesday!

Come on Thursday!

Kevin Mack wrote:

Have I missed something or do a couple of the feats in the book not really do anything?

Are you sure you didn't mean to copy and paste this into every single product discussion thread?

Dark Archive

I don't know if this is the right place for this question, but if not, I'd be happy to know where to post it:
Is there some reason why the Fist of the Avenger talent doesn't give the caveat for replacing Improved Unarmed Strike, if you already have it?
Virtually every other vigilante talent that gives a feat has a bit in there about replacing the feat if you'd already taken it, but this one does not. Looking into it, the only other instances I can find of this are:
Heavy Training-does not give option to retrain heavy armor proficiency
Signature Weapon: You CAN trade out weapon focus, but not weapon specialization. However, since you could only have grabbed weapon specialization via the combat skill talent at the same level, it's a bit of a moot point.
Favored Maneuver: cannot trade out your improved whatevercombatmaneuver feat.
Strike the unseen: cannot retrain blind-fight.
Unexpected Strike: cannot retrain quick draw.
Unkillable: cannot retrain diehard.
Vital Punishment: cannot retrain vital strike.

In home game I'd house rule that any of these that grant feats would allow a similar kind of retrain to the other talents that do.
One thing I absolutely love about the vigilante talents is that every single talent that grants a feat does more than just that. Maybe it's added functionality or maybe it's more than just one feat after a certain level, but the fact that it's more than JUST spend a talent get a feat is wonderful.

I'm just wondering why some talents allow for free feat retraining, but some do not.
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Abed Nadir wrote:
djones wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:
Nothing. I merely stated I wanted Wednesday move here faster. Unless you can time travel, Rysky, I think I'm okay with just being impatient. :p
Ah nuts, the time machine crashed about 9 hours early.
I'm not the least bit surprised. Rip Hunter is the worst Time Master ever.

He's certainly no Doctor/Time Lord. ;)

Am I the only one having difficulty downloading this?
Axial wrote:
Am I the only one having difficulty downloading this?

I did not have any trouble.

Silver Crusade
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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

No. I just got mine, I can confirm that everybody who gets this PDF is immediately whisked 2 days into the future, what became obvious to me the moment I noticed the "First Printing April 2016" line in the book.

You might want to cancel all your arrangements for today and tomorrow before you download the file, just to be on the safe side.

What happens is that when I place the order, it slings me right back to Payment Selection. And then when I try to do it again, the three steps disappear and it won't download.
Gorbacz wrote:

No. I just got mine, I can confirm that everybody who gets this PDF is immediately whisked 2 days into the future, what became obvious to me the moment I noticed the "First Printing April 2016" line in the book.

You might want to cancel all your arrangements for today and tomorrow before you download the file, just to be on the safe side.

I finally completed repairs on my time machine and then this happens!

So. Much. Good. Stuff. :)

I think I love the Warlock.

What the hell is going on? Is there a problem with my account, or is it some browser or connection issue?
Axial wrote:
What happens is that when I place the order, it slings me right back to Payment Selection. And then when I try to do it again, the three steps disappear and it won't download.

I was having the same "looping issue." After a few repetitions, I gave up. I went to my downloads page and discovered that it was available.

I now want to make a character that is based on the Green Hornet. That is the older version, not that awful movie.
Gisher wrote:
Axial wrote:
What happens is that when I place the order, it slings me right back to Payment Selection. And then when I try to do it again, the three steps disappear and it won't download.
I was having the same "looping issue." After a few repetitions, I gave up. I went to my downloads page and discovered that it was available.

I've been doing it for the last three hours and haven't had any luck.

Axial wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Axial wrote:
What happens is that when I place the order, it slings me right back to Payment Selection. And then when I try to do it again, the three steps disappear and it won't download.
I was having the same "looping issue." After a few repetitions, I gave up. I went to my downloads page and discovered that it was available.
I've been doing it for the last three hours and haven't had any luck.

In that case, you may want to contact customer service.

I had a few issues to (like the steps disappearing during ordering rather than it giving confirmation that the order was made), but I was able to download it without issue after the website maintenance.

edit: Wow, the Red Raven is being risky with that pendant.

edit2:electric boogaloo... and I have played far too many transformer games so now the Masked Performer's mask looks like a decepticon face.

Edit3: I hope the metamorph gets FAQ'd/errata'd into losing brew potion and getting unarmed strike as a bonus feat because right now it's a useless feat and even the skinshaper druid gets unarmed strike...

edit4: Oh God. Dandy Ranger is like the PF conversion of Pimp Krusk.

edit5:..... and my 15th playtest character is back to not working... Damn cabalist stealing the warlocks shadow form.

Hello! :D

I would like to know what exactly the Dandy(Ranger) loses?
And what is the Sentinel(Ranger) and Urushiol(Druid) about(flav)?

Please and ThankYou! :)
1 person marked this as a favorite.

Just got my copy... and some of the artworks made me laugh XDDD
Axial wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Axial wrote:
What happens is that when I place the order, it slings me right back to Payment Selection. And then when I try to do it again, the three steps disappear and it won't download.
I was having the same "looping issue." After a few repetitions, I gave up. I went to my downloads page and discovered that it was available.
I've been doing it for the last three hours and haven't had any luck.

Can you try a different browser? I think Chrome/Chromium-based browsers can time out on the connection during the personalization phase. I'm using Firefox and it downloaded fine for me just now.

I am sorry if this has already been addressed, but is Arcane Mark a Vigilante's worst nightmare? Or does Duel Identity and Seamless Guise mean that the mark would somehow only appear on the persona that got marked?
Silver Crusade
Nohwear wrote:
I am sorry if this has already been addressed, but is Arcane Mark a Vigilante's worst nightmare? Or does Duel Identity and Seamless Guise mean that the mark would somehow only appear on the persona that got marked?

I didn't read anything regarding it specifically. But it doesn't seem any worse than receiving a wound or a scar. Also nothing in AM says it can't be covered up with makeup.

Also AM can be invsible and poor Vigilante wont even know that he got marked until its tooo late

-player : i Cast AM and punch this masked dude in face !
then i go around town with See invisibility spell ON so i can easy see the person with mark if he's somewhere here
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