Ok, new session. Here we go.
1 Custom Difficulty level 3 Monster using standard guidelines. Could inflict one persistent bleed on claw attack, could knockdown on beak. No Resistances or Immunities. This was a Giant Turkey and very scary. Based on "Terror bird"
Did very well against the smaller fast enemies. We had about three rounds of combat before the level 3 Monster showed up. I identified one, passed my check, and connected a lodestone to the bottom of my spear to try to attune it to the concept of "Gravity and Force". I didn't feel too limited as I was doing solid damage, and my chalice gave me a nice little 3hp buffer each turn.
When the boss showed up I failed my check, so I had to spend another action to use EA. I was then unable to heal the Druid who was hurt as I couldn't get in range.
My Spear attuned to the concept of "Snake" did do a solid chunk of damage when thrown though. From there I whiffed every attack, but not by an amount that would have been changed by better stats or chasis.
I was able to go up to a fallen ally and heal them for 9 which helped save their life. Though thinking about it. I am unsure if you can actually do that.
Neither of my Class Feats came up this session
Thoughts Positive: It is fun being able to be trained in all knowledge skills even if you are not as good for general knowledge as a dedicated person. The damage was insane, and it was very fun finding thematic weaknesses. The temp hp made me feel safe and the healing was nice.
Thoughts Negative: It is hard to come up with thematic custom weaknesses on an enemy that shows up right behind you in initiative, and online I was worried I was slowing things down.
Thoughts Neutral: Action economy is tight sometimes. But when it isn't the payoff is pretty good so I think it balances well.
I’ve never started with less than an 18 in my attack stat, I don’t like the idea of being behind for 10 of 20 levels, thankfully 6 wasn’t one of them.
I think this right here is a huge disconnect for me with a lot of the feedback on Thaum, and I thank you for writing the thing that triggered the realization.
I often make characters that don't have max attack stat, usually opting for more int or con. It really doesn't hurt that much, and as powerful as "+1" is in 2e, in about 40 sessions I personally have only missed by 1 a handful of times. In return I get a character who starts more versatile.
Not to say my way is better, just that my way is what I find better for me.
So it makes sense that the 16 Attack stat doesn't bother me, since I was already doing it.
So, this time I am playing with a different character in the campaign that is also respeccing into a Thaum.. and this one had some troubles. Originally she was the witch in the post above, who specialized in some healing and shortbow. Because the above character chose Chalice already, we decided to go with Amulet as damage prevention can be just as good as healing if done right.
The bow ended up being a bigger issue. We thought about just eating the damage loss to keep using a bow, as we are pretty sure Implement's Empowerment doesn't work with 1+ weapons. Luckily the character is a Human so we ended up with proficiency in one Advanced Weapon. We chose the repeating crossbow.
Encounter 1: Four Cave Scorpions (Moderate Encounter)
So, this fight was interesting. Fight started and the Thaum actually went first. She pulled out her crossbow, rolled... and got a nat 1 on her Find Flaws. So she became flat footed, still she pulled out her crossbow, and shifted to hide behind someone beefier. Swash went, managed to tumble through a scorp getting Panache, and then hit it but didn't kill. Scorpions started to go and got a bit unlucky, except one tail hit on the Alchemist that did inflict the poison. Cleric spent the turn assisting with the poison.
Thaum got to go again, chose a different Scorpion and passed their check, they used Esoteric Antithesis and then pulled out their amulet and shot a bolt... which missed. Bad luck.
Nothing super special happened this round except that the targeted scorpion went after the healer, and using the amulet knocked the 4 damage they would have dealt down to 0, negating the poison save.
The rest of combat went smoothly, lasting three more rounds. The Thaum managed to get two attacks in that landed doing 12 damage on one hit, and 10 on another. The Amulet came into play once more on that combat which reduced 7 damage down to 2. She did Find Flaw a second enemy, but that enemy died before she could interact with it beyond that.
This was a doozy, the encounter actually went super fast, but it was a brutal one. The monster attacked while half the party was in the water, luckily the Thaum was still above water and within 30'. Alchemist won initiative and threw an alchemist fire, we didn't quite know how the rules worked for this, so we ruled that it was like Piercing. It could work, but half range. The damage was miniscule due to Fire Res 5 underwater essentially negating the weakness to Area.
The swarm then went and it... it just wrecked the party. Both Alchemist and Swash Critically failed their saving throws. Swash went next, but 10' penalty to speed in the water hurt a lot, and they tried to escape, they failed three swim checks and sunk, and took 11 damage from the bleed.
The Thaum went up next and decided to use Find Flaws, they failed so they found out that the swarm was weak to Area Attacks and to Acid, used a new action to use Esoteric Antithesis they chose Area because in a previous session we fought a bat swarm that was weak to area and it felt the safer choice, and finally pulled out their Repeating Crossbow. The flavor was the bolts they were using were set to shatter into lots of pieces on impact.
Cleric's turn and they had to move closer to heal the Swash. Alchemist went and only did 1 splash damage on a missed throw, critically failed their swim check and took 3 damage from the bleed.
Swash's turn they managed to actually pass a swim check, but due to the status penalty on speed moved 5'. They did however pass their fort save to reduce it to stage 1. They took another 10 damage.
Finally it was time for Thaum to go, and this was looking messy, so they popped their Potency Talisman and spent three actions firing. The first was a hit for 14 damage (Splash and Piercing Negate each other so essentially swinging for 2d6+4 damage), second hit was a critical hit for a stunning 18 damage. The third attack was a miss.
Luckily the cleric was now close enough to move in and use Haunting Hymm which did just enough to put it down.
Thoughts Positive: I do like the good amount of damage the Amulet can help reduce, and the Thaum can actually do some real good ranged damage. 2e from what I can see doesn't have a ton of ways to add static damage to ranged attacks and this really worked well.
Negative Thoughts: It was very prohibitive using ranged at all with any of the buffs. It looks like you need either thrown weapons or a repeating crossbow to use ranged without juggling your implement. I also found the Amulet a bit cumbersome as you need to have your target studied for it to do anything.
I need to fiddle with it a bit to see if it is a problem to me. Looking through the feats it looks like a lot of stuff doesn't really require you to be in that mode. You still get lots of Magical Item interaction.
I think for my next playtest session I am going to only use EA once per encounter and see if it still feels fun to me.
So, I have been reading over some playtests and worries, and a common problem people seem to have is if you scan Enemy 1, then it dies, you have to scan Enemy 2. However... I am wondering if verse mooks it is worth it, especially at low levels.
First enemy is gonna tell me weaknesses, if they have a native weakness I can exploit I will, if they don't it gives me +2 damage. This is really nice, but against non-bosses and repeats, I think I would probably stop scanning after the first in an encounter and just use my native +2 boost.
Looking over the implements though... if you use Weapon or Amulet you seem like you need to keep it up. The other three though... I think you are probably fine not using it all the time.
I decided to pull up a list of creatures and whew you where not wrong. Monster level 18s. You aren't hitting those dcs even close without Legendary.
I am making this thread as a place to post all of my playtesting. I am unsure if I should submit it all as one hunk later on, or if I should submit every time we run a session. So until then this feels like a good repository.
Class: Thaumaturge/Acrobat Lvl 3 (Free Archetype Variant Ruleset)
My Thaum went now. Managed to pass my Find Flaw check, because two weaknesses tied I was told both. I chose to then use Esoteric Antithesis for Fire and pulled out my spear instead of my dagger. I also pulled out my Chalice. A dead turn, but you know wasn't bad.
Barbarian went and... wiffed three attacks in a row. It was tragic. The damage was real good too. Enemy went and did it's big AOE on the Barbarian and Cleric which both managed to fail. Witch and Sorcerer used heals to keep them up. Warpriest stepped up and did two harms which it passed saves for one. First damage on the board.
My Thaum went up and swung, and because of flanking I managed to hit. 1d6+3+4+(Weakness 5 fire) was a tasty 18 damage. Seeing as I was the first to do major damage to it I Sipped from my cup. Got some temp hp.
Barbarian went and hit for a whopping 26 damage after weakness, so the Enemy bit him, crit, then took a swing at me, it rolled a 30, but because I had Esoteric Warden that was not a crit! So because of class abilities I took essentially 3d4+3 damage instead of 6d4+12 damage. I was now down 12 damage from max. Barbarian got hit by the third attack due to Giant Instinct and went down. Sorcerer used a heal on them again, Cleric took some swings and missed so got a decent harm, and the Witch shot an arrow that missed.
Thaums turn again, manage to hit twice more due to flanking and put on another 32 damage. Then Gulped my cup to heal me back to only -3. Barbarian stood up, grabbed the Sword off the ground and hit for the last bit of health.
First combat was fun. I can see how if I failed it would have sucked, but that is dice. I got lucky and the Barbarian was swinging bad, so I managed to put 50 points of damage on the board. The little ac was situational but helped, and burning an action for a bit of temp hp or a solid heal was nice.
Might want to watch this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2zhNnBhnB0
It clears up some confusion on what familiars can and cannot do.
So, I see people really frustrated with this problem... but for me it is one of the easiest house rules ever. Which I won't be using during playtest, and I won't even push for, because the wording would end up clunky. So I guess it should probably be looked at, it does feel clunky, but personally this is how I would run it.
"You fight the terrible void Zombie, what do you do?"
"I use find weakness."
"Ok, roll me a Religion check."
*Result is a 7*
"Ok, you are pretty sure Zombies are weak against slashing, acid, and positive energy. However this looks like a variant you are unfamiliar with. You may use your esoterica, but you must choose one of those three types, you are flat footed until your next turn."
Just cause it is a super special unique zombie doesn't mean it should be hard to know it is a Zombie.... just hard to know it is a 'Void Zombie"
I have decided to make a Chalice Thaumaturge. Level 3, for the current game. I see a lot of people saying it feels weak, but looking at it I think it will put me on similar level of the Barbarian. A bit less to hit, but better ac and comparable hp assuming I don't get one shot. I also like how I don't need to identify someone for it to be useful.
I will see how it plays out.
Mark, here is your gushing. I was gonna make a new thread, but GameDesignerDM has a lovely one for me to reply to.
I love this class. I love it so much. Growing up I read books primarily from the 80's and early 90's. As years moved on I picked Harry Dresden (A tad problematic in hind sight, but still a book love for me).
My point is, to me the hero using magic has never been about them casting spells. It is about the toys. It is about being knowledgeable enough to look at the situation and having the tool for the job. The hero has a magic sword. The detective has the gimmicky rings. A Chalice full of poison judges those that drink it.
Tabletop gaming rarely scratches this itch for me. But this. This is exactly what I want.
Adventuring through the wilds and a fey attacks! My trusty cold iron longsword was destroyed weeks ago, but fear not! I have a bag full of shavings. I rub them along my club and can get the job done!
I know more then I remember. My knowledge is finnicky, but I have the clue somewhere. Oh, a bandit lord, I don't know how to han... wait.... This region is known for it's high amount of cilantro allergies! I can work a weakness in.
I have my trusty magical item. My mother's pendant that I am convinced hold her love and protection. It's power and connection keeps my party safe.
I am not a wizard, I do not control the heavens, I lack the command of the elements. I am a man who studied, and I have enough force of will to BS my way through when my knowledge fails.
I play in a game with Free Archetype, currently playing a Fighter with Alchemist Dedication. They were a support type, decent damage but all around helping.
I am going to be retraining into Thaumaturge/Something. No idea quite yet what. I am really thinking of going Amulet.
I'm thinking something like.... 14/14/12/12/10/16. I do worry about my too hit and AC though. I need to give another glance through the playtest to see how important Cha is.
"Your multidisciplinary study of magic means you know how
How would you all say spells with attack rolls would work?
Ps) I was going to make a post and gush about how much I love the class and the flavor and how shockingly good the damage is and OMG I love it. But I thought I should focus and talk about mechanical confusion so I am on topic.
Invictus Spartan wrote:
This is how the Paizo model has worked for years. They send out pdfs to subscribers when they ship the product, which I believe has something to do with when they can charge them.
But for your more specific question, it has to do with agreements with traditional brick and mortar stores. Street date is a hard thing, and violating it in any market is usually a huge deal. So, if they push back street date to September 1st, then they *Cannot* be selling product directly before that date.
I do think it is a bit of an outdated system, but we don't have access to Paizo's numbers, as the Marketing Manager has made clear they have looked at alternatives and found them to not be financially viable.
Know Direction will be doing a live stream on Twitch tonight, August 25 @ 9:00 pm - 11:00 pm EDT, with Logan Bonner, the design lead on Secrets of Magic, where they say they will be "...breaking down Secrets of Magic with the design lead, Logan Bonner."
Just for expectation calibration, since this is the same day as the original release, is this supposed to be a "Hey everyone has their books" deep dive, or a "Slightly Spoilery" teaser?
Either way I probably will watch, these sort of community streams are exactly what I love. I just want to make sure I know what I am getting into.
I distinctly remember people being more cautious about what they share. But oh well. I guess I am the old fuddy duddy in this. If people don't see anything wrong with it who am I to come in and grouch about how it feels a bit off putting to me.
You all enjoy the release of this book. It looks like people have worked real hard on it. It seems people are real happy with the content.
Got to say, I'm not a huge fan of the release in 2e. In 1e it seemed like most of the spoilers for the new book was here, and heavily moderated. You could get a small taste to wet your whistle.
Now I look over at the Subreddit and I feel if I wanted to I could just know everything I want. Still excited for the book and trying to avoid spoilers. Just kind of sad that so much is getting leaked so early.
David knott 242 wrote:
Sorry website just broke. Targe is a type of shield.
Nishah Lharast wrote:
So what is everyone most excited for out of the book? Personally I want to deep dive into magus and play out my dreams of making a Redmage.
Personally excited to see spells, I know a big complaint of the current system in my group is the lack of more modular spells (Heal, Magic Missile). I am hoping this changes. Also hoping for more fun "Divine" spells, I am just never excited when reading the current list.
David knott 242 wrote:
Thank you very much. Honestly this whole situation has been stressing me out. Honestly maybe it is a statement to my own financial situation, but the stress of the two week window of when the subscription costs hits is already bad. This new situation is making it worse.
I don't know, maybe I need to be responsible and just cancel all my subscriptions if I can't afford the stress of when payments are going to be removed.
I have thought about it a couple more days, and reading the rule book it is very clear to me that a spontaneous caster is indeed stuck to only casting level 2 spells with level 2 spell slots (Unless you have them as your selected specialty spells). This chafed me for a while, I was upset it wasn't clearly defined....
But it doesn't need to be. I am coming from 1e, and that is making this weird for me. A new player picking up the book who had never played a 3.5 system would probably never think of it that way. They would see their options and go.
It's one of the difficulties with a new system I will have. The rules are easy to read, the assumptions I don't even think about are hard.
I was looking through my book, and it really seems like Prepared is better then spontaneous again... much better.
This is extra damning, because it sorcerers have lost the ability to burn a higher level slot to cast a low level spell. In 1e if push came to shove I could burn a level 2, or 3 spell slot to cast a level 1 spell. Now if my level 2 and 3 spells are useless in a situation and I run out of level 1 spells... well tough luck.
This session did not go great, the party handled the first two puzzles fairly well, but the final one was real rough. I don't think I handled it well as a gm, but I couldn't find a way to really hand them information without giving them the answer.
What was worse is that they triggered the aging trap and that pushed our Half-Orc into middle age... and then a player triggered it again. The half orc is now almost old, and was furious (In character)
It took some real weird rp to justify them not fighting to the death over that.
I plan on the the guest at the end of the book to fix the problem, but I was wondering if anyone here knew a good way.
I ended up having them display some concern and got them to ask some questions, now they are a bit more worried.
The party ended up going through the Palace of Teeth fairly well, although they learned to fear the tooth fairies. I think only one tooth went missing, they used a hero point on the diplomacy check to avoid paying the 1 tooth each fee. The archer did get pinched 8 times though, so he is now a melee fighter for the next few days.
I am a bit worried about them surviving though, they managed to burn through the whole wand already.
David knott 242 wrote:
Nothing Trackable yet, it just has the "May take up to 48 hours to show up" on the tracking, I will probably check in tomorrow night."
First two sessions went great, Spiritualist did snag CLW and the rp so far has been pretty good. There is tension between the Half Orc and the other players as they all pretty independently made backstories where their loved ones died in the orc raid. Out of character everyone is cool with the rp so that is good.
They flew through the opening dungeon so I got to end session one with the reveal which was super satisfying.
Session two was pretty good, though they don't seem worried about they Psychopomp after them, so I am scared for the final fight, I need to maybe add more confrontations so they are compelled to research it more.
Just a few weeks ago I double checked and verified that the 2nd edition rulebook and bestiary were part of the subscription, and they were but today I check and it looks like they're not part of my upcoming orders? Are they part of the subscription or they not? And if not is it too late to pre order?
Thank you, I had misread the text as numbers not digits. That is much more reasonable. I am actually really excited to start tomorrow. My biggest issue so far is someone wanted to play a necromancer, which... really really doesn't work for book 1.
Party is.... Paladin (Oath Against Whispering Way), Ranger, Mindblade Magus, Spiritualist, and Slayer. So hopefully they have a good showing.
Can someone tell me how the puzzles went? I have no issues with 1 and 3, mirror stuff is easy, and honestly my party will probably use the right key cause it's the name of the place.
But the circling thing.... my god how is anyone supposed to get that? Sure you circle the number 11, but at least the way I think and maybe my party, that is now one number, not two. so we would be stuck back on impossible.
Has anyone had a party that solved this organically?
So, universal empowerment makes it so all your bombs are invested, but the section on bombs says you don't need to activate them. Which leads me to believe they don't require resonance, seeing as from what I can tell investment just means don't use resonance, I can tell what the first half of this ability does?
1) Bombs cost resonance?
2) It needs an errata?