In the right setting, a single scathing word can prove deadlier than a poisoned dagger. Behind the scenes of heroic battles and magical realms lies a seething underbelly of danger and deception. This world of intrigue holds endless possibilities for adventure, as heroes duel with words instead of steel, plot daring heists, and engage in battles of wills against relentless nemeses. A high-stakes game of shadows and secrets is yours to master—if you have the wits!
Whether the heroes are taming the blood-soaked back alleys of their favorite metropolis or jockeying for the queen's favor alongside highborn nobles, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Intrigue is an invaluable companion to the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon more than 10 years of system development and an Open Playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into a new era.
Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Intrigue includes:
The vigilante, a new character class that lives two lives—that of an unassuming member of the community, and a cloaked crusader with his own agenda!
New archetypes for alchemists, bards, druids, hunters, inquisitors, investigators, mesmerists, rangers, rogues, slayers, spiritualists, and more!
New feats and magic items for characters of all sorts, granting mastery of street-smart combat, impenetrable disguises, and misdirection.
Dozens of spells to manipulate tense social settings, whether to reveal adversaries' secrets or hide the truth.
A complete system of influence, providing new goals and rewards to challenge players and link their fortunes to nonplayer characters and organizations.
Systems and advice to help Game Masters introduce a variety of new encounters into their games—daring heists, extended pursuits, and tense searches for buried secrets.
Rules for social combat and verbal duels, allowing characters to use words as weapons to sway hearts and humiliate foes.
... and much, much more!
ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-826-7
Other Resources: This product is also available on the following platforms:
Okay, let's get into Ultimate Intrigue! As the title implies, the purpose of this book is to help flesh out more subtle elements of the game: things like spreading rumors, rallying a crowd, stealing secrets, and other classic cloak-and-dagger stuff. I've used bits and pieces of it in previous campaigns, but read through it carefully (and incorporated a fair bit of it) for my current Curse of the Crimson Throne campaign, as that adventure path is designed around urban political strife. Boiled down to brass tacks, the book is a 256 page hardcover comprised of six chapters. The full-colour artwork is very strong throughout, and the cover is great (though Merisiel's legs are like three times longer than her torso!). There's a very short two-page introduction that summarises each chapter--which is what I'm going to do anyway.
Chapter 1 is "Classes" (60 pages). The big deal here is a new base case, the Vigilante. The concept is that the character has both a normal (social) identity and a masked identity, with certain class options only working while in the associated guise. There are also several safeguards to help keep anyone from figuring out that Bruce Wayne is really Batman. I have a Vigilante character in Pathfinder Society, and one of my players runs one in Curse of the Crimson Throne. I think the class is perfect for an urban campaign mostly set in a single city (especially with lots room for intrigue), but it doesn't work as well with the more traditional "travelling adventuring party" campaign. It's a bit too obvious when five newcomers arrive in town, only for one of them to "disappear" and a new costumed avenger show up. I know there are also some gamers who dislike what can seem like the awkward introduction of comic book super heroes into their fantasy role-playing. For me, I think the concept works well--though as I said, only in particular types of campaigns.
A large chunk of the chapter is devoted to new archetypes for other classes. More specifically, alchemists, bards, cavaliers, druids, inquisitors, investigators, mesmerists, rangers, rogues, skalds, spiritualists, swashbucklers, and vigilantes get some love. Frankly, a lot of the archetypes are fairly forgettable, but there are exceptions--for example, a Daring General Cavalier would be great in military campaigns, the Dandy Ranger could be really useful in an urban campaign, and a couple of the vigilante archetypes are perfect if you want to play the Hulk or Spider-Man. Although the rogue archetypes aren't very good, there are several excellent rogue talents that focus on making the character harder to track through divination, etc. It's worth nothing that this book came out during the period when the hardcover line was still setting-neutral, so there won't be any Golarion-specific flavour with the archetypes (for better or worse depending on your preferences).
Chapter 2 is "Feats" (24 pages). There's something like 110 new feats in the chapter, and probably something for everyone. Given the book's theme, many of the feats are related to sneaking around, hiding and disguising spells, stealing stuff, making plans, figuring out when you're being to lied to, etc. A few that I particularly like include Brilliant Planner (giving you the chance to have just what you need just when you need it), Call Truce (giving a slim chance to actually end combat peacefully when its underway), and Drunkard's Recovery (silly but fun). A couple of important feats are Conceal Spell (which hides the pesky manifestations that spells create in Pathfinder) and Fencing Grace (adding Dex to damage with rapiers, a favourite of swashbucklers everywhere). Overall, I thought the options presented were well-written and plausible in terms of desirability.
Chapter 3 is "Mastering Intrigue" (68 pages). This is probably the most important chapter in the book for GMs. It offers tons of useful advice, as well as clarification on some tricky game mechanics, to help run intrigue-based games. The pages about how common magic spells can be handled while still preserving mysteries, secrets, and misdirection is pure gold. The chapter also introduces seven new rules sub-systems, any or all of which can be incorporated into a campaign to flesh out certain aspects of gameplay. "Influence" is a sub-system that deepens the process of persuading a person or organisation to support you. Instead of a simple single Dipomacy check, PCs need to make certain skill checks to learn a person's interests and weaknesses, and then other skill checks to take advantage of what they've learned. The process operates through multiple phases of tracked successes and failures, and can be tied to mechanical favours and benefits. It's become a very popular facet of many Pathfinder Society scenarios, and I think it's a pretty clever way to handle things--though it can be a bit clunky at first. "Heists" is a sub-system that contains some excellent advice to GMs on how to structure things so players don't obsess over unimportant trivia and are willing to violate that old canard of "don't split the party." "Infiltration" contains some quick advice, but that's about it. "Leadership" deepens the feat of the same name, adding lots of rules for interacting with other sub-systems both in this book and in Ultimate Campaign. I'm personally still not persuaded that the Leadership feat chain is a good inclusion to the game. "Nemeses" is all about adding a recurring villain; I think it's trying to systematise something that could be handled just fine without it. Though there are some fun suggestions on evil plots to foil. "Pursuit" is a little like the Chase sub-system from the GameMastery Guide but stretched out over hours and days cross-country instead of in minutes through alleyways. I could imagine using it. "Research" is probably my favourite of the sub-systems, and one I've used in multiple campaigns. In essence, it gives the PCs a reason to use things like libraries and archives by giving them bonuses to their Knowledge checks, but then makes gaining different thresholds of information the result of multiple successful checks. Overall, a great chapter--I wish the Influence and Research sub-systems had been in the Core Rulebook, because they really add a lot to the non-combat aspects of the game.
Chapter 4 is "Social Combat" (25 pages). The idea here is to present GMs with options on how to handle social conflicts--things like debates, trials, cutting repartee, etc. There's also a "verbal duels" sub-system. I'm just not sure about it--it's something I'd have to see in practice. However, a really useful part of the chapter is advice to the GM on how to handle the various social skills in the game--Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Sense Motive--as well as the intrigue skills like Disguise, Perception, and Stealth. The advice here is excellent, and I just stopped in the middle of this review to reread it.
Chapter 5 is "Spells" (40 pages). You can judge from the length of the chapter that there's a ton of new spells, and every spellcasting class will find something. One of the fun things the chapter introduces is a new "ruse" descriptor for spells, which means the spell is easily mistaken for another even by observers trained in Spellcraft or Knowledge (arcana). It's a good way to mislead folks who have played way too much Pathfinder. There are some really clever spells in this section, with a couple of my favourites including false resurrection (instead of bringing back a soul, you stuff a demon into the body!) and the hilarious shamefully overdressed.
Chapter 6 is "Gear and Magic Items" (22 pages). There are some new mundane pieces of equipment (weapons like the cool wrist dart launcher, alchemical items, etc.) but most of the chapter is new magic items with an intrigue theme. The one that really stuck out at me was the launcher of distraction, which is perfect for assassination attempts because it makes it seem like the attack is coming from somewhere else.
Overall, I think Ultimate Intrigue is an excellent book. It's pretty much a must-have in my opinion for any campaign that's going to involve a lot of role-playing or that moves beyond traditional dungeon crawling and wilderness encounters. Even readers not involved in "intrigue campaigns" per se are sure to find plenty of material they can use.
Don't get me wrong I love Paizo books, I love their work, and I'm proud to own almost all of their publications.
However, Ultimate Intrigue is the one book I regret buying. It's even more than that, it's the one book i regret they ever published.
We need rules and systems, ok. We need a magic system because magic isn't a real thing. We need a combat system otherwise playing with your grilfriend become home abuse. But we don't need a social system because it's a ROLEPLAYING game. Either you want intrigue heavy campaign and you roleplay them, or you want to dungeon crawl or investigate (that's fine too) and you don't play intrigues. You can even do both and it's great.
Aside from that massive problem, the book suffers from "a turn normal actions into feats/class ability" syndrome. I can't count the number of time where players made me fighters to wizards or rogues with a dual identity. We didn't need the Vigilante, and still don't. And I loved when wizard use to get clever and ask for linguistics/bluff roll to blend a spell into a phrase. Now you need a feat for it. Thanks, Ultimate Intrigue. If that was not enough, some of these nonsense feat are built in feat tax chains.
But the one thing I hate the most about this book is the stupid FAQ it bestowed upon us to promote itself (https://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9tza). That makes a whole school of magic (illusion) utterly useless, and destroys a lot of others (enchantment).
Now I know I can just refuse to use it. But i use to love pathfinder for the clarity and perfect sense with out need to houserule much.
Now it's gone.
I'm tired of paizo trying to stuff this book down our face
If I was playing a home campaign this book might be more fitting,
For society play this verbal debate and other ideas for this book really bog down the game play. I like social aspect of games and role playing but as I said society play it slows the game way down to try and get people up to snuff on the mechanics
So, Ultimate Intrigue took a long time for me to come to a complete opinion on.
The Vigilante class introduced in this book is, in my opinion, easily the best non-spellcasting class Paizo has ever created. It breaks up its social options and combat options in such a way that you have a great character able to participate in all areas of the game without having to choose whether you want to be competent in combat or in the myriad other facets of the game like exploration, social encounters, etc. It has deep and well-designed talents that allow you to pick any of a variety of different ways to participate in combat, with or without weapons, and numerous tools for allowing players to influence the story with safe houses, contacts, and more.
At PAX Prime 2016 I had the opportunity to visit Paizo's Pathfinder demo area and play their pregenerated vigilante character. I honestly didn't expect it to go terribly well; after all, the vigilante is a class built around balancing two identities and moving between different social strata, so you'd think that this would require a more controlled environment where you know the other players in advance and have time to plan out how your character fits into the game world with your GM ahead of time, right? Turns out, I was wrong. The vigilante class is well-crafted enough that even while playing a 1st level pregen I was able to easily deal with situations in and out of combat, and it took me about 60 seconds of conversation to establish with the group that I had a secret identity they were privy to and might need them to cover for my character from time to time if he needed to swap identities. It didn't hurt matters that the only downside to anyone learning a vigilante's secret identity is that, well, they know his or her secret identity. You can go all Tony Stark if you want, announce that you are Iron Man, and carry on as normal. Very few of the vigilante's abilities actually require you to maintain truly secret identities, and the only real hit you take is that you're a bit easier to find by magical means (though even this can be addressed with clever use of the Safe House Social Talent).
The book also elaborates on the intent behind numerous spells that often prove problematic for GMs in games where they want to have a focus on gritty investigation of mystery, such as the various detect spells, speak with dead, etc.
I think my biggest disappointments with the book, and the reason I can't give it 5 stars, lie in the feats and archetypes. I'll start with the feats, and a bit about why I see most of them as representative of missed opportunities.
To start with, Pathfinder's skill system is heavily dated. When Paizo brought it over from 3.5, they combined a few extraneous skills, but otherwise did little to update things, meaning the core area of the rules covering everything in the game that isn't casting spells or hitting things is now well over a decade old and out of date. Several skills don't even actually work, or work well, as written, have interactions you're just supposed to kind of assume or make up (Ride and Handle Animal are a mess, Stealth requires one to check out FAQs and blog posts online to use as intended, Bluff and Diplomacy have more than a few vague areas and inconsistencies, etc.), so what better book to address, update, and expand these core components of the game than a book about playing skill and intrigue heavy campaigns? Unfortunately, Paizo chose not to go that route, instead relying on feats to stretch skills over their gaps and issues, leading to many of the feats in the this book providing skill uses that I've seen GMs at hundreds of tables houserule as basic functions of those skills to begin with. Instead of formalizing intuitive uses of existing skills into their basic function, they added a feat tax to allow characters to do things many people already thought they could do. While there is a section in the book going over several of the vague areas in a few key skills, these are primarily common sense clarifications instead of the full address the skills could have used.
The archetypes, like many Paizo hardcovers, are all over the place. Some of them are interesting and dynamic, like the Masked Performer bard archetype, some show an attempt at embodying a cool and modern concept but fail to achieve that concept in the actual execution, like the Magical Child vigilante archetype, and some are just plain bad, so obviously terribly designed that you almost wonder if the person who wrote them has ever actually played Pathfinder, like the Brute vigilante archetype.
Now, don't let the above wall of negativity mislead you; there is a lot of great stuff in this book, including perhaps the most inspired and well-crafted class Paizo has ever produced, a class that introduces really interesting design concepts, plays with components of the class chassis we haven't seen classes treat as quite so malleable before, and is a genuinely fun and interesting class to play in and of itself. Despite many of the feats ranging from useless to frustrating, there are still quite a few that are interesting and viable, and while the archetypes are very hit or miss, that's generally true of Paizo books in general and probably shouldn't be held against this one in particular.
My final verdict on Ultimate Intrigue is 4 stars, and a strong recommendation to pick it up, if for no other reason than to add the Vigilante class to your game (though there definitely are other reasons to add this book to your collection).
No seriously. The vigilante class is freaking batman. Look at the art for chapter one and for the character. HE'S BATMAN. Of course they also have archetypes if you want to make Hulk, Sailor Moon, even He-Man. With the archetypes from other books the list goes on.
My favorite part, and I cannot wait to test this properly in a game, is the social combat. It works a lot like playing craps or roulette. You get a pool of Determination points which you use to place a bet then you roll off with your social skills check! Seriously it sounds like lots of fun!
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
This is probably the most idiotic thing in the world to be irritated by, but when you put this book, or at least my copy up with the other hardbacks, it looks like the font kerning on the spine is off compared to all of the others. That or it's a skinnier font, slightly. Same font, for sure, but ever so slightly off.
After much personal debate between Team Stalker and Team Warlock, I have decided to keep my vigilante a warlock. Sorry, Mark, but Logan's love letter to my playtest warlock won over my heart. (Although perhaps I'll make a second kitsune vigilante if my overpowering sense of paranoia is wrong and the race stays legal long enough for me to get some XP on a second vigilante.)
Seriously, though, the combination of Lethal Grace and Up Close and Personal on a race with a Dex / Cha bonus AND a racial bonus on Acrobatics checks was really, really tempting. Still is in fact....
Now Ultimate Intrigue just needs to be added to the Additional Resources list!
After much personal debate between Team Stalker and Team Warlock, I have decided to keep my vigilante a warlock. Sorry, Mark, but Logan's love letter to my playtest warlock won over my heart. (Although perhaps I'll make a second kitsune vigilante if my overpowering sense of paranoia is wrong and the race stays legal long enough for me to get some XP on a second vigilante.)
Seriously, though, the combination of Lethal Grace and Up Close and Personal on a race with a Dex / Cha bonus AND a racial bonus on Acrobatics checks was really, really tempting. Still is in fact....
Now Ultimate Intrigue just needs to be added to the Additional Resources list!
Does anyone else want to be able to multiclass Vigilante / Vigilante?
I might try Fighter / Warlockk if I could figure out a weapon group for my mystic bolt : )
After much personal debate between Team Stalker and Team Warlock, I have decided to keep my vigilante a warlock. Sorry, Mark, but Logan's love letter to my playtest warlock won over my heart. (Although perhaps I'll make a second kitsune vigilante if my overpowering sense of paranoia is wrong and the race stays legal long enough for me to get some XP on a second vigilante.)
Seriously, though, the combination of Lethal Grace and Up Close and Personal on a race with a Dex / Cha bonus AND a racial bonus on Acrobatics checks was really, really tempting. Still is in fact....
Now Ultimate Intrigue just needs to be added to the Additional Resources list!
Still a week's wait here so...what's Lethal Grace and why does my Kitsune Stalker need it?
After much personal debate between Team Stalker and Team Warlock, I have decided to keep my vigilante a warlock. Sorry, Mark, but Logan's love letter to my playtest warlock won over my heart. (Although perhaps I'll make a second kitsune vigilante if my overpowering sense of paranoia is wrong and the race stays legal long enough for me to get some XP on a second vigilante.)
Seriously, though, the combination of Lethal Grace and Up Close and Personal on a race with a Dex / Cha bonus AND a racial bonus on Acrobatics checks was really, really tempting. Still is in fact....
Now Ultimate Intrigue just needs to be added to the Additional Resources list!
Still a week's wait here so...what's Lethal Grace and why does my Kitsune Stalker need it?
It's a vigilante talent that grants you weapon finesse for free (and if you already have it you can snag something else) and, when you're using Dex to-hit and Str for damage, you gain a bonus equal to half your vigilante level on damage, which isn't increased for two-handed but isn't decreased for off-handed.
After much personal debate between Team Stalker and Team Warlock, I have decided to keep my vigilante a warlock. Sorry, Mark, but Logan's love letter to my playtest warlock won over my heart. (Although perhaps I'll make a second kitsune vigilante if my overpowering sense of paranoia is wrong and the race stays legal long enough for me to get some XP on a second vigilante.)
Seriously, though, the combination of Lethal Grace and Up Close and Personal on a race with a Dex / Cha bonus AND a racial bonus on Acrobatics checks was really, really tempting. Still is in fact....
Now Ultimate Intrigue just needs to be added to the Additional Resources list!
Still a week's wait here so...what's Lethal Grace and why does my Kitsune Stalker need it?
It's a vigilante talent that grants you weapon finesse for free (and if you already have it you can snag something else) and, when you're using Dex to-hit and Str for damage, you gain a bonus equal to half your vigilante level on damage, which isn't increased for two-handed but isn't decreased for off-handed.
You know what just occurred to me.
If the damage part of that talent was split off into a feat and the vigilante talent simply granted the two feats together, then that would more or less solve the lack of dex-to-damage options.
So can the Rogue take Lethal Grace via the Rogue Talent (Stalker Talent)?
It would appear so.
Definitely so. Eventually, it won't give quite as much damage as a stalker could potentially hit, but it's still an extremely solid choice for the Dex-to-hit, Str-to-damage rogue.
So can the Rogue take Lethal Grace via the Rogue Talent (Stalker Talent)?
Is there a way for Slayer's to take a Stalker Talent like rogues?
It would appear so.
It flat out says they're not available to other classes that can get Rogue Talents, just the Rogue and Unchained Rogue.
That's super annoying. Another way to block all but the smallest group of classes from having damage options from DEX-based characters.
I keep getting the nagging feeling that the hybrid classes from ACG are getting left by the wayside when it comes to support. They get dribs and drabs here and there, but it's not the level that other classes (even Occult) are getting in new books.
In the year and a half since ACG came out, the Slayer has received a total of 3 new talents (2 in ACO, and one in DTT specifically for Catfolk). And when the Slayer is meant to be a Ranger/Rogue hybrid and the Rogue gets a new talent every book or so, it seems it is forgotten to see if it could be used for the Slayer as well.
So can the Rogue take Lethal Grace via the Rogue Talent (Stalker Talent)?
It would appear so.
Definitely so. Eventually, it won't give quite as much damage as a stalker could potentially hit, but it's still an extremely solid choice for the Dex-to-hit, Str-to-damage rogue.
You ninja'd me with your post Mark.
As an addendum to my (fairly negative) post above, can you help explain why the choice was made to limit the use of Lethal Grace to only Rogues and Vigilantes?
And with your post quoted here, is the Slayer damage you are referring to STR-based or DEX-based?
So can the Rogue take Lethal Grace via the Rogue Talent (Stalker Talent)?
It would appear so.
Definitely so. Eventually, it won't give quite as much damage as a stalker could potentially hit, but it's still an extremely solid choice for the Dex-to-hit, Str-to-damage rogue.
You ninja'd me with your post Mark.
As an addendum to my (fairly negative) post above, can you help explain why the choice was made to limit the use of Lethal Grace to only Rogues and Vigilantes?
And with your post quoted here, is the Slayer damage you are referring to STR-based or DEX-based?
I don't follow you, I don't think I mentioned slayer damage?
As to Lethal Grace, it's for vigilantes because it's a vigilante talent. I honestly like the progression of it quite a bit (since for most classes, Dex-based melee builds without Dex to damage have damage that's generally too low, and this is a nice option that doesn't have the negative consequences of Dex-to-damage), so I wouldn't mind it for other classes too much. If you want to try it in your games as a feat, let me know how it goes (incidentally, if you do, you'll want to watch out for the WMH fighter ability that the freelancer, Alex, based on the playtest lethal grace, since that would double up on the same math in an unfelicitous way).
I don't follow you, I don't think I mentioned slayer damage?
As to Lethal Grace, it's for vigilantes because it's a vigilante talent. I honestly like the progression of it quite a bit (since for most classes, Dex-based melee builds without Dex to damage have damage that's generally too low, and this is a nice option that doesn't have the negative consequences of Dex-to-damage), so I wouldn't mind it for other classes too much. If you want to try it in your games as a feat, let me know how it goes (incidentally, if you do, you'll want to watch out for the WMH fighter ability that the freelancer, Alex, based on the playtest lethal grace, since that would double up on the same math in an unfelicitous way).
You're correct. I did misread stalker as slayer in your post above. So please ignore the related question.
RE: Lethal Grace. I've already been allowing my Slayer to take Finesse Training from Unchained Rogue as a Slayer Talent (requiring Weapon Finesse as a pre-requisite. only applying to one weapon, min level 3 and able to be taken again at 11 and 19), and it seems to be fine. But I'm no game-designer and fear it may be slightly OP (but also maybe not).
I guess I was fiercely hoping Ultimate Intrigue would fix the DEX to damage once and for all, but alas, not this time.
I think I will replace Finesse Training with Lethal Grace as a Slayer Talent and see how it goes. It feels more balance for the Slayer. Your thoughts?
I don't follow you, I don't think I mentioned slayer damage?
As to Lethal Grace, it's for vigilantes because it's a vigilante talent. I honestly like the progression of it quite a bit (since for most classes, Dex-based melee builds without Dex to damage have damage that's generally too low, and this is a nice option that doesn't have the negative consequences of Dex-to-damage), so I wouldn't mind it for other classes too much. If you want to try it in your games as a feat, let me know how it goes (incidentally, if you do, you'll want to watch out for the WMH fighter ability that the freelancer, Alex, based on the playtest lethal grace, since that would double up on the same math in an unfelicitous way).
You're correct. I did misread stalker as slayer in your post above. So please ignore the related question.
RE: Lethal Grace. I've already been allowing my Slayer to take Finesse Training from Unchained Rogue as a Slayer Talent (requiring Weapon Finesse as a pre-requisite. only applying to one weapon, min level 3 and able to be taken again at 11 and 19), and it seems to be fine. But I'm no game-designer and fear it may be slightly OP (but also maybe not).
I guess I was fiercely hoping Ultimate Intrigue would fix the DEX to damage once and for all, but alas, not this time.
I think I will replace Finesse Training with Lethal Grace as a Slayer Talent and see how it goes. It feels more balance for the Slayer. Your thoughts?
I think that's a great idea, and I'm seriously interested in hearing how it works out, so be sure to let me know after you've used it for a while. I love modding the game, playing around, and seeing what happens. It's why I do this for a living :)
Tyrant retained everything. There were a few tiny tweaks, but if you told your GM, "Hey, can I just change the alignment on Antipaladin to LE without touching the spells or abilities that don't specify alignment?" you'd end up with Tyrant. There are actually still a few chaotic remnants like the spell list having chaotic spells and your weapon bond allowing Anarchic.
The spell Codespeak was already in the Black Markets Player Companion, but there seems to be an updated text description and also it seems to no longer be an Inquisitor spell as it is in Black Markets.
As to Lethal Grace, it's for vigilantes because it's a vigilante talent. I honestly like the progression of it quite a bit (since for most classes, Dex-based melee builds without Dex to damage have damage that's generally too low, and this is a nice option that doesn't have the negative consequences of Dex-to-damage), so I wouldn't mind it for other classes too much. If you want to try it in your games as a feat, let me know how it goes (incidentally, if you do, you'll want to watch out for the WMH fighter ability that the freelancer, Alex, based on the playtest lethal grace, since that would double up on the same math in an unfelicitous way).
I think that's a great idea, and I'm seriously interested in hearing how it works out, so be sure to let me know after you've used it for a while. I love modding the game, playing around, and seeing what happens. It's why I do this for a living :)
Sounds like an unchained rogue archetype if I ever heard one! ;-)
As to Lethal Grace, it's for vigilantes because it's a vigilante talent. I honestly like the progression of it quite a bit (since for most classes, Dex-based melee builds without Dex to damage have damage that's generally too low, and this is a nice option that doesn't have the negative consequences of Dex-to-damage), so I wouldn't mind it for other classes too much. If you want to try it in your games as a feat, let me know how it goes (incidentally, if you do, you'll want to watch out for the WMH fighter ability that the freelancer, Alex, based on the playtest lethal grace, since that would double up on the same math in an unfelicitous way).
That's me!
Indeed I did love that option in WMH and am hoping for similar options for other martial/melee combat classes (Slayer, Ranger, Magus, Brawler, Warpriest etc)
Oooo lethal grace sounds awesome. Is it a universal vigilante talent or stalker/avenger specific? Gonna have to seriously consider a finesse unarmed build now.
Oooo lethal grace sounds awesome. Is it a universal vigilante talent or stalker/avenger specific? Gonna have to seriously consider a finesse unarmed build now.
NICE! Gah the choices. That combined with Fist of the Avenger, I could be doing some decent damage with a great AC (which is my Strengh-based unarmed avenger's biggest issue while wearing light brawling armor). OR stick with Strength build, save a vigilante talent slot for something else, and rack up the AC with more money. The eternal Weapon Finesse debate: Feel cool with finesse and spend more character resources to be effective, or stick with strength for easier damage and use money to make up the difference in abilities (dexterity-based skill bonuses, ranged attacks, and AC).
Can you use the emotionless focus of the Shadow Binder spiritualist with the Id Rager bloodrager? If technically no, who would allow it?
I think not since the Id Rager has a specific list of emotional foci it can choose from.
*I don't have the book to actually see what you're talking about from intrigue.
My dislike of the specific list aside, the Emotionless Focus for the Shadow Binder is structured exactly the same as the other Foci. Skills, Skill Focus, preferred saves, and abilities.
Having just got ahold of my subscriber PDF, I'm pretty happy with what I'm seeing. Have just skimmed most of the feats and archetypes, but there's one thing I think I'm missing. The Brute archetype seems a little weak for a "Hulk" character, particularly with the inability to take any of the Avenger talents (a few of which scream "HULK SMASH"). Am I just not seeing something here? How would you build a Brute?
Soooooo I just had a thought. I didn't really pay attention to the vigilante playtest, but could you use it tomodel a character who wasn't so wrapped up in a secret identity? Such as one Dr Jones perhaps? I know some stuff would be funky, but part of it feels like it would fit where the professor was one identity and the adventurer was another. Neither of them is really a secret... But most people in-universe know Indy as the former rather than the latter.
