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Venture-Agent, Utah—Provo 14,341 posts (14,387 including aliases). 3 reviews. 1 list. 1 wishlist. 16 Organized Play characters. 1 alias.


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This adventure ends following the PCs’ triumph over the
warlord Kosseruk and the destruction of the onyx tower,
cutting off the remaining soldiers from reinforcements.
With Kosseruk and most of her sergeants dead, the
remaining soldiers become disorganized and spread into
the surrounding hills, eventually working their way south
to rejoin the major forces stationed around Phaendar.
In the aftermath of these events, Longshadow assesses
the damage dealt to it and moves forward, collecting
refugees from other Hollow Hills communities as well
as slaves taken by Kosseruk’s forces.
With the Ironfang Legion’s attempt to take Longshadow
thwarted, the PCs have bought some breathing room. The
Legion takes some time to regroup, and other forces in
Nirmathas undoubtedly see the assault on Longshadow
as an eye-opener to prepare for more hobgoblin attacks.
But the question remains as to how the PCs can move
from their defensive position to try taking the fight to
the Ironfang Legion in a more meaningful way.
Whether the PCs succeed in defending Longshadow or
not, Kosseruk’s death costs the Legion dearly, and Azaersi
responds by posting an official bounty on the PCs, initially
offering 15,000 gp apiece for their capture or deaths.
The defeat of Kosseruk’s army leads to the capture of
several hobgoblins, as well as a handful of morlocks allied
to the Legion’s cause. The PCs find information pointing
to the morlock warrens southwest of Longshadow, either
through these interrogated prisoners, or the documents
found in Kosseruk’s command center. Thus far, the
Ironfang Legion’s true secret to success has been its
ability to cross vast distances and attack by surprise by
means of the mysterious obsidian towers, and the only
hope of slowing the hobgoblins’ advance or striking at
their central force lies in unraveling the mystery of these
structures. Kosseruk’s notes as well as the strange runes
that cover the tower walls all point to dwarven origins,
but the truth is buried somewhere in the besieged
dwarven city of Kraggodan, far to the south.

Pearl of power is lv1

Tayse Yvasril wrote:
Wealth by Level for 7 is 23,500 & Level 8 is 33,000. Given that a sizable bit of the value comes from spendy consumables Tayse is carrying for the party (example: Stone Salve) that seems like pretty close to on point.

Yeah that's what it's looking like with you and Darby already. Thank you!

Darby O'Gilll wrote:
I would never say it to her face, just behind her back

You underestimate her information network.

Tahlas Theron wrote:
Do you have an estimate of my sword and armor Tom? Fire shield armor and how would I go about upgrading those?

Anything that's a special item from me doesn't affect the price. So treat it as whatever it is without the special stuff.

Darby, When you sell something it's at half value. So selling the lidless gets you 5,000gp not 10,000
And Novvi takes insult at your description of her and does not have a phylactery in her wares.

So with the people you had/rescued they've been able to handle thing like shuffling mundane gear to your base. So that is available to use to equip your refugees or sell.

This is going to be the gear reset, once we start up everything you have on your sheets you have and everything else has been sold/given to people.

Lets see how much GP you have after selling off stuff and I'll let you know what the base item price limit is. But it's probably between 2 and 4 thousand.

Also to gauge if you're "on pace" can I get a rough estimate of your gear's total worth.

Some of these ideas definitely will stick around, they are fights I'm really wanting to do sometime. Some are more generic.

Like I'm excited you guys want the Bulette, I've been excited for this concept for years.

So we have
Withering unless Cameron wants lizards to tie up, them my "random" choice :)

Lady with Horde and human Bulette are locked in. And Might and Magic are the third unless Cameron comes in and wants to tie with Turtles, then who knows which you'll face.

Ah, this question was brought up, the fights are all separate and on different days.

Advance scouting group 3 reports
We've scouted out a number of strong groups making their way slowly to the legions base. We feel it would be best to tackle a number of these to dissuade the others from joining against us.

Note this is their point of view, some things may not be completely accurate.

Pick one of:
We've found Two Massive terrifying lizards, their majesty was a sight to behold, though there was a wretched smell of decay about them.
A group of strange cultists. The land seemed to wither slightly where they went.

Pick three of:
As best we can tell it seemed to be a humanoid Bulette, having no regard for anything in his way.

A fierce large armored nagaji and his huge turtle but with a giant scorpion tail with a club at the end.

A stoic looking man that seems part stone. Has a strange rock on his forehead. He's carrying a massive sword that's as big as he is.

I simple looking soldier, nothing seemed remarkable about her really, but her aura seemed that of a master.

A tranquil man, but we sensed strong magics. He was difficult to track as he always seemed to ahead of where he should have been.

A band of mercenaries, they probably possess a variety of skills and abilities. While no one seemed special their movements were amazingly in sync with each other.

A lady leading a horde of various creatures. Their numbers and types seemed to vary every time we spotted her.

And finally, A couple that each seemed to be skilled in might and magic, we saw a magic tome as well as a holy symbol in their possessions.

yes you can cast spells and channel.

So, a little change of plans. We'll go ahead and have you level up to 5 before this fight that'll get your EXP to lv5. Spend your gold and upgrade your gear and stuff. And pick any daily spells "knowing" this fight is coming.

The setup for this fight is that you're at your cave-base when Farrow runs in with an arrow embedded in the backside of his shoulder and small cuts and bruises on his arms and face from running wildly through the forest. He warns that a seemingly well-coordinated team of 5 members is on it's way to the cave and should arrive in roughly 30 minutes as Aubrin & Rhyna rushes to his aid. Farrow continues saying the oddest thing about them is that they don't show to be affiliated with the legion.
Everyone turns to you awaiting you directions of what to do. You are now welcome to come up with a plan. Do you go out and try to meet them on the way? Try to set up some ambushes in the caves, perhaps have many villagers armed with alchemist fire? Do you employ any of the NPC (most likely Aubrin or Rhyna) to join with you in the fight?

silver cup 15gp
darkwood carving of butterfly 20gp
bunch of gold dust 100gp
27 semi-precious stones 27gp
silver dust 150gp
animal skins 150gp
citrine gem 50gp
semi-precious stones 250gp
3 agates 30gp
1 star rose quartz 55gp
4 amethysts 440gp
ogre art 1gp
geode periapt 25gp
gold pin from dead elf 150gp
dozens of semiprecious stones 500gp
wolf fang necklace 100gp
2 onyx gems 50gp
silver locket with blonde hair 25gp
2 platinum rings 100gp
battered flute in cool case 125gp
15 out of 16 purple gems - 1 gem expended 150gp
aquamarine necklace 150gp
geode periapt 25gp
14 amethysts 350gp
nine Aquamarines 270gp

3308gp total here

Gear of the firewarden

it's a +1 "Greatsword" that can be wielded one handed dropping the damage down to 1d8. All feats and abilities that work for a chosen weapon work with this weapon. When the flamewarden's fire ability is active, a successful hit lets you intimidate the target as a swift action. If the attack was a crit or a kill you can make a swift action intimidate like dazzling display. Also this +1 mithral breastplate gets fire shield when the flamewarden's fire ability is active.

gloves of soul stitching

these gloves allows healing spells and abilities to work on dead creatures as per breath of life. You can extend the rounds of this ability by accepting negative levels equal to the rounds extended. Also before such ability the wearer can accept damage that will be taken after the effect that will heal up the other targets by that amount.

Belt of beasts' heritage

Wearing this belt grants you 1 animal related spell per spell level as a bloodline spell.

Salutations Children of the Stone,
My emissary approaches you as
a sign of respect, but by now you
have seen my soldiers move unchecked
across this green and fertile land.
The Ironfang Legion means to make
all of Nirmathas a home to those the
humans would hunt, and turn those
same humans into our servants and
prey. You would be wise to join our
alliance. There is no room for neutral
parties when war is all around you,
and only one side in this conflict will
offer you strength and shelter.
As a sign of the protection the
Legion offers, kindly accept this
token of my generosity. Take your time
in making your decision, but I trust
you will come to the conclusion that
provides your small and vulnerable tribe
a future.
Kindest regards,
General Azaersi

Each day, an NPC can be assigned to perform one task
around camp or generally employ skills on the PCs’ behalf.
The most useful such projects include the following.

• Assist: NPCs can assist a PC or NPC with any skill
they’re trained in, automatically granting a +2 aid
another bonus.
• Build Shelter: Creating a shelter for one Medium-sized
creature requires a successful DC 12 Craft or Survival
check. For every 2 points by which the result exceeds
12, the shelter can accommodate one additional
Medium-sized creature. These shelters are simple and
cold, but enough to prevent a character from being
fatigued from lack of shelter.
• Craft: With access to the necessary tools, NPCs can
craft finished goods for the PCs upon request, using
the normal Craft skill rules (Core Rulebook 91).
• Forage or Hunt: Characters who spend a full day
hunting or gathering and succeed at a DC 10 Survival
check gain 1 Provision Point. Characters gain 1
additional Provision Point for every 2 by which the
result exceeds 10.
• Herd: Phaendar’s sheep and goat herds were scattered
in the attack, and many were lost in the Fangwood.
NPCs can recover a single goat or sheep with a
successful DC 16 Handle Animal check. Captive
animals can be maintained with a single successful
Handle Animal check (DC = 10 + the number of
animals) per day. Neglecting to maintain the herd or
failing this check indicates one or more animals have
wandered off. A captive animal generates 1 Provision
Point every 3 days in the form of milk (and eventually
cheese or butter), or can be butchered to immediately
provide 2 Provision Points.
• Scout: NPCs trained in Survival or Stealth can scout
the area or keep an eye on Phaendar for the PCs.
With a successful DC 10 Survival check, an NPC can
either discover one point of interest in the area (such
as an encounter location) or reduce the chances for a
random encounter by 5%. An NPC who succeeds at
this skill check by 5 or more can identify one danger in
the area of the encounter (if any exist).
• Stand Watch: An NPC can stand watch, attempting
Perception checks and even confronting danger while
the PCs rest uninterrupted.
• Support: One or more NPCs can follow the PCs to
assist them, carrying equipment, standing watch at
temporary camps (see below), and providing skills
the PCs may lack. NPCs hold back from combat, but
should the PCs lose a fight, the NPCs attempt to drag
their unconscious leaders to safety.
• Use Skill: NPCs can use any of their listed skills on
the PCs’ behalf, such as using Handle Animal to train
captured animals, Heal to provide long-term care, or
Knowledge to answer questions for the PCs.
Regardless of the refugees’ general mood, specific named
NPCs (if they survive) take on a helpful role within
the group and provide unique benefits so long as they
remain alive and friendly to the PCs, as follows.
• Kining: The stolid dwarf keeps everyone’s weapons
sharp and true, and though she grumbles, she trains
the refugees how to fight so they don’t panic. All the
refugees gain a +1 bonus on initiative rolls while
Kining remains with the group.
• Oreld: Oreld gathers materials from the woods to
make rudimentary potions. Every day, he can make 1
dose of bloodroot poison, one tanglefoot bag, or one
vial of antitoxin, but doing so prevents him from
working on any other tasks that day.
• Rhyna: She uses her herbalism training to find healing
plants and savory herbs while foraging, and treats the
small wounds the refugees suffer daily. Characters in
the camp heal 1 additional hit point each night while
they rest so long as Rhyna remains with the group.

Here's what you're gathering provision points for


One Provision Point sustains a person for 1 day and consists
of a half-gallon of fluid (clean water, or ale, broth, cider,
goat’s milk, or sheep’s milk) and 3 to 5 pounds of stable
food (apples, berries, bread, dried boar, dried venison,
hard cheese, mushrooms, nuts, pickled vegetables, and
smoked trout). The PCs’ followers carry their resources
in a hodgepodge of bottles, jars, and satchels stuffed into
improvised backpacks. Each Provision Point of resources
weighs about 10 pounds. Together one trail ration and a
waterskin also translate to 1 Provision Point, but weigh
only 5 pounds.
Consuming only half a Provision Point per day
sustains a character, but leaves that person distracted and
irritable. A character who eats only a half portion takes
a –2 penalty on attack rolls, damage rolls, ability checks,
skill checks, and saving throws until she consumes a
full portion. If a person eats half provisions more than 3
days a week, she doesn’t have enough body fat to endure
starvation for long, and must begin making Constitution
checks each day to avoid taking nonlethal damage.
If a person eats no provisions in a day, she takes the
–2 penalty on all attack rolls, damage rolls, ability checks,
skill checks, and saving throws listed above. Typically, a
character can go without water for 1 day, or food for 3
days before making Constitution checks to avoid taking
nonlethal damage. Remember that a character who takes
any nonlethal damage from starvation or thirst also
becomes fatigued, imposing additional penalties.

All 3 stack with each other.

very often they put reminding text into things, not to make them special, but to help you have all info in one place.
PF1 example is saying that a monk's unarmed strike doesn't have to be a punch.

Where in the surveys have we been able to say how often an animal went down or died?

Cause we playested a ranger and a druid with one for the lv4 game and they were down a total of 6 times and that's with the animal druid basically casting heal animal a lot in fights.

The lv 12 playtest one person commented that they wanted to play a druid with a pet since it was a lot higher level now, but when he saw that the AC was like 7 less than everyone else's or something and HP wasn't like 100 over everyone to compensate he changed his mind. Players get critted enough when we all have max AC, 7 less and he felt the animal was just asking to get crit all the time from their 3rd attack. Also that their saves were a little lower, not as super bad though.

But I've not seen places in the survey to share such stuff or how many times animals went down. So that's probably why they don't have much data saying they are.

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So about the animal companion deal. Where in the surveys have we been able to say how often an animal went down or died?

Cause we playested a ranger and a druid with one for the lv4 game and they were down a total of 6 times and that's with the animal druid basically casting heal animal a lot in fights.

The lv 12 playtest one person commented that they wanted to play a druid with a pet since it was a lot higher level now, but when he saw that the AC was like 7 less than everyone else's or something and HP wasn't like 100 over everyone to compensate he changed his mind. Players get critted enough when we all have max AC, 7 less and he felt the animal was just asking to get crit all the time from their 3rd attack. Also that their saves were a little lower, not as super bad though.

But I've not seen places in the survey to share such stuff or how many times animals went down. So that's probably why they don't have much data saying they are.

Mr charisma has the right of what I was asking.
The question came up when I wanted to fireball a large event and not hit my 6ft half orc and the gm was saying that the half orc would be hit cause his head was in the higher square too

Can a medium creature mechanically be in two squares so that two splash damages that only hit one of the squares both hit them?

Ludovicus wrote:
Your falchion averages 61 expected damage on a hit (6d10 + 2d6 + 7 str + 14 conditional),

How are you getting 14 conditional damage? the rage is only giving you 8 conditional. And the non-giant would only have a +4 conditional.

okay so if we are going with lv20

Cleric has 20+6+5+1 = +32 to hit, enemy AC = 44
so cleric needs a 12 to hit with true strike that's apparently a 69.75% hit rate.
greatsword for 6d12+6+10d8+6 ~ 39+6+45+6 ~ 96*69.75% ~ 67 not factoring in crits.

Hmm... If this is correct it's a fair bit lower than expected. Though Part of the plan was to benefit from having a more magical weapon than normally possible with magical striker, but since +5 is what we have we lose out on that.

Fighter with a pick is really hoping for crits.
A normal power attack hit with a greatpick is 8d10 ~ 44 but on a crit that jumps to 17d12+17 ~ 127.5 from just the weapon. so true strike to up our crits should let us get this massive damage more often.

again, this "does better DPR" when you're not lv20 because then you benefit from being able to activate magical striker for accuracy and damage.

Kerobelis wrote:
The to hit seems wrong if the barbarian is the highest? How did he get +22? Paladin is an expert, while Barbarian is only trained. Barb also gets a -1 from using the big weapon. Something seems off...

I was thinking the same thing. 12+5+3-1 = 19 is what I clock the barb should be at. Meaning he is now just as accurate as the paladin that had a hard time hitting.

Also factor in his AC is is likely far less than the paladin and I'm surprised he didn't get killed by getting hit so much. I see 12+7(dex/armor)+3-1-1 = 20 AC while raging assuming dex maxed. That means assuming these numbers for enemies
Slaver Demons: +20 to hit, AC 27 TAC 25
Treachery Demons: +25 to hit, AC 32 TAC 29
That he is auto-hit by the slavers and critted on a 10, meaning their last attack only needs a 10 to hit.
And the Treachery needing a 5 to crit and to hit their 3rd attack should have had the barb getting ripped to shreds by all their crits. Did that happen and he was just healed as fast as he was hurt or was something else missing here?

I agree that this could be nice. I've gotten the names mixed up a lot already while playing.

NemisCassander wrote:

I'd have to see some _very_ detailed math regarding the OP before I believe that this is optimal. I'm pretty sure that Giant Totem barbarian is a complete trap, so it's a bit odd to see it in an optimal DPR build.

My simulation models show that -1 to hit is certainly not worth the damage increase of even Giant Totem. I haven't updated those in a while, though.

The deal is the reliance on certain strike to guarantee damage. Having a raging bonus of +6 damage per hit is really nice when you apply it 3 or 4 times a round.

Something I found that does pretty good at damage is going cleric negative energy gorum with sorcerer dedication to get magical striker
and then doing true strike into channel smite. True strike helps you hit a lot and channel smite gets the most damage for a hit.

Similar strat with fighter and power attack using a pick, with it's weapon crit effect having lots of dice means lots of damage on a crit and true strike helps you roll high for those crits.

I'm not sure what their DPR would be since I've never been good with true strike in the equation, but I believe these are some of the top DPR.

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Richard Crawford wrote:

Okay, so this is a change.

Some immediate questions though. Is it actually possible to create a character at level five with a requirement to use eleven resonance? If not testing the ten resonance is impossible.

And conflating the spell point pool with the Focus pool makes class abilities less attractive. Is this being compensated for?

I agree, one of my goals was to see if there was enough you'd want to wear that the decision of wearing something or leaving points to use for potions or activations was needed. I couldn't reach that point. The amount of invested permanent items was just too small for a character to care about.

Thanks DM_Blake, very well thought out responses. I'll take this to my group and hopefully we can figure out the rules we'll use.

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Hey, I'm not sure which is in error but FIRE RAY for Kyra and the list are different.

Attempt a ranged touch Strike against the target. If you succeed at the attack, you deal fire damage to the target equal to 1d6 plus your spellcasting ability modifier. On a critical success, the target takes double damage and also takes 1d6 persistent fire damage. Heightened (+1) The ray’s damage increases by 2d6, and the persistent firedamage on a critical hit increases by 1d6.

You attempt a ranged touch Strike against one creature within 60 feet. If you hit, you deal 5d6+4 fire damage to the target plus 3d6 persistent fire damage. Full rules for this power are in the Resonance Test rules.

Kyra's makes it seem like you always to persistent damage while the text in the rules says only on crits. I know if I were to sit down and play Kyra it'd be with always persistent damage since that seems to be what the text says to do.

Right, those are the rules and I feel they don't answer any of my questions.

"You use your arms and legs to swim through water." Does this mean I need two hands free and thus can't have a weapon out to swim?

"If you end your turn in the water and haven’t succeeded at a
Swim action that turn, you sink down 10 feet or float up 10 feet"
Is there any guidance on this to have a consistent flow? My GM rules that he rolled a die and odds were sink and evens float up since it said we could do either with no guidance.

Same with all the other questions, I feel the rules don't give any clear guidance on these issues.

the DC expects everyone to roll which ups the chance that someone rolls a 20 to crit succeed.

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Deadmanwalking wrote:
At 9th? A Barbarian can get to Str 28 or so, but only very niche super optimized builds can actually get that high on Str, and not even then on Con (for the most part anyway).

I don't think so. Niche optimized builds can do far better. A lv1 human can reach a str of 26 while raging. doing nothing but buying a +2 belt and putting level ups into it gets it to 30 raging str.

A niche build can get 38 str at times at lv4 with no items and with a 26 con too.

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Deadmanwalking wrote:

Also, let's compare to PF1, shall we? The Glabrezu in PF1 has Str 30, Dex 16, Con 30, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 20. Those are equally impossible for PC stats.

Well while the state spread is quite impressive and indeed hard to duplicate as a PC. Each individual stat is reachable by PCs in combat. 20 starting con greater rage for 6 and belt for 4.

Yes people usually won't have that high of a con, but it's reachable by a PC wanting to have a high con.

if I have HOLY CASTIGATION and CHANNEL SMITE does that let me channel smite with positive energy and hurt fiends?

I guess along with this is LIFE SAPPING and negative energy.

HOLY CASTIGATION: You combine holy energy with positive energy to damage demons, devils, and their evil ilk. Heal spells you cast can damage fiends as though they were undead.

LIFE SAPPING: You draw the life force out of your enemies to heal your own wounds.
When you cast a harm spell and damage a single living creature, you
regain Hit Points equal to the spell level of your harm spell. If you aren’t a living
creature, you gain no benefit from this feat.

CHANNEL SMITE: Instead of casting harm or heal, you siphon the destructive
energies you channel through a melee attack and into
your foe. Make a melee Strike. This Strike has one of the
following additional effects on a success.
• If you channel positive energy and the target is
undead, you deal extra positive damage equal to that
of a single-target heal spell.
• If you channel negative energy and the target is
a living creature, you deal extra negative damage
equal to that of a single-target harm spell.
If your Strike fails or hits a creature that isn’t affected by
that energy type, the spell is expended with no effect.
If you channel positive energy, this action has the good
and positive traits. If you channel negative energy, it has the
evil and negative traits.

Deadmanwalking wrote:

For the most part, names aside, I like this very much. Seems to solve most of my problems with Ancestry entirely. I still think Ancient Blood is a bit overly punitive, though I suppose that depends partially on how they change Resonance...

Chess Pwn wrote:
so half-elf loses out on the speed aspect that old half-elf had?
Given that it's now cheaper and easier, something had to give. That being what went is fine with me. As others note, if you care you can grab the Elf Feat for that.

No I can't just grab the elf feat for that since I already had the elf feat. I'm wanting to go fast since movement is slow and now a big piece is missing that I can't make up. If there was a Half-elf racial to increase speed and stacking with the elf one THEN you can say I can just buy it back.

But as is I can't.

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Bardarok wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
so half-elf loses out on the speed aspect that old half-elf had?
But can choose to take the nimble elf feat at lvl one. So... kind of back to square one but with more options overall.

but before you could get the movespeed from picking half elf and still pick up nimble elf feat at lv5 with fleet at lv3 meant base speed of 40 or 30 in armor. Now we're 5ft short of that. Just a little sad to miss out on that speed in heavy.


so half-elf loses out on the speed aspect that old half-elf had?

Michael Sayre wrote:
The Once and Future Kai wrote:
Ckorik wrote:
I suppose it'd work as a concept when you gain levels - but you need 18 in your prime stat to survive the first few levels.

Please elaborate? I've had a couple of players field non-offensive casters* with 16s in their primary stats and they've been fine in low level playtest sessions.

*Fey Sorcerer focused on Utility and Summoning. Bard focused on Utility and Buffs.

We have a goblin cleric of Pharasma in one of my home games who has a 10 WIS and hasn't bothered ever putting any additional points in. He's played the same character (with the occasional tweak or retraining as updates have come out or we've moved to different chapters) since the playtest dropped and he's consistently been one of the most effective characters in that group. He uses buffing and enhancement spells, a poisoned dogslicer, and typically opens combat by dropping forbidding ward on whichever ally he's going to be flanking with in the fight, or bless for a quick boost to attack rolls for the group before moving into position to attack. No 18s in any stat starting out and he's only even gotten close to being dropped once (and that wasn't until 7th level.) Teamwork and tactics undoubtedly contribute to his effectiveness to a significant degree but that's generally going to be true for any character.

Really a combat cleric is casting bless or forbidding ward? The action every round to maintain it seems quite the cost of these buffs going down.

But also clerics have it pretty easy with their channel pool as it's another pool of top tier spells.

So how many items can I have stored? Can I have 3 potions? 4? Like for an alchemist this limit I imagine would be important and probably reached for how much stuff they want in easy access. Is there something in the rules about how to decide if something can/is stored or in backpack?
For the upcoming playtest module one of my players is asking about this because he wanted to test a high level alchemist and how their combat economy is, but now we're stuck on if it'll be 2-3 or 1 action to draw his premade bombs

So I'm a little confused now. On page 307 it says the interact action is used to grab a stored object. But on page 175 it says 2 actions to retrieve an item from backpack and if your backpack you need another action to take off your backpack first.

What is the difference here? When do you use 1 action to get stuff vs 2 actions?

So if I'm wanting a wand or a potion or a backup weapon what actions does it take to get these?

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Jason Bulmahn wrote:
John Lynch 106 wrote:
You have currently pegged everything at costing a feat

Hmm.. I have seen this, or something like it, in quite a few places. Its interesting because I think we are using the term feat for these options because they are selected and applied to your character in a shared way.

What they do not share is an equal value. A class feat is better than a skill feat. An ancestry feat is not meant to be the same value as the others. I see a lot of comparison between the categories and that alone might be the biggest problem with using the word "feat" for all of them. Useful to learn the system, but the baggage from existing users applying to word to mean "a rule with a specified amount of power and utility" is a barrier to overcome.


I am not sure we have made that clear.

(Normally I would just note this to myself and move on, but I felt like sharing this musing with everyone)

Personally I love it when you DEVs provide comments like this one. Getting a little insight onto the why and that some of the drawbacks were unexpected really helps us not feel like you guys are crazy.

Like for this, if we think that you thought all feats are the same and then we go crazy yelling about how these feats are clearly weaker is a lot of wasted energy for stuff that isn't true.

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I don't believe 1 and 4 are being hit at all.
Currently there doesn't feel like any "reward" for system mastery but instead harsh punishment for not having it and the other part of this is that the builds that system mastery say are okay don't always feel like good characters. Also so far most characters feel very samey. All use weapons, even wizards, to have a good one action ability, the bulk of the builds are the same since since there are limited good abilities and combos and weapons and weapon styles don't make a good impact.

Also "allowing characters to thrive in their defined role." doesn't seem to be a thing either. Again similar to the first, it's more of being slightly okay at a defined role rather than thriving. When fighters miss on a 11 against a non-boss and need like a 15 to hit the "bosses" it's more like barely useful contribution instead of the master of combat.
Also I've not seen "Encourage characters to play to their strengths, while working with others to bolster their place in the group" supported by play or the book
Everyone rolls everything since no one is good at anything and everyone is kinda okay since they all get level so no one feels it's not worth fishing for a 20. So no one feels needed.

PF1 was where you had people that thrived in their defined role, damage dealers did damage consistently and well, supports could support well. A party with no wizard needed to play to their strengths to cope for lack of wizard. A strong fighter often needed a party to help with knowledges and talking and magic item identification. And the more mastery of the system you had the more solid and capable characters you'd have, people that could splash into other things like a diplomacy fighter or knowledge barb and have it feel fun and fitting while still being effective.

PF1 seems to be a much better fit of your stated design goals than the current playtest of PF2 seems to be and where it seems to be going.

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So while playing the game we ran into a fight in the water and we were very unsure how it works.

Can I use a weapon and still swim? Does it matter the size of the weapon? Is there any guidance on floating or sinking, like does a person with no armor and only a dagger float or sink? If I'm 10 ft in the water how much do I need to swim up to get to the surface? Normally calm water requires no check to swim, should fighting in calm water make the water not calm? Is casting on the surface difficult or penalized at all? Can you concentrate when under water?

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I believe the issue is how much the treadmill gets in your face and causes you to be unable to enjoy the gameplay.
Like yes, all leveling games have a treadmill in the back, but most you're not aware of and never think to ask if it's there.
Here in PF2 it feels like you're playing treadmill the game. You're started off with the treadmill going at a 9/10 and quickly get to 10/10 which isn't a fun or enjoyable pace, especially to start.

A 14 str reach cleric is very viable and able to hit and deal damage in PF1 for like 10 levels and minimal investment. In PF2 a 14 str cleric feels awful cause they are behind and always will be now and need to full invest to stay at bad and not fall to awful.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
NielsenE wrote:
If the caster's spell has at attack role it still suffers the penalty.
To be more precise, the spell must have the Attack trait. Several cantrips and some actual spells have this, but a spell like Harm does not. (Bad touch clerics are probably the most destructive nova class in the game.)

We've been told that an offensive touch Harm/Heal gains the attack trait.

So I kinda really dig these newest dying rules of the wounds. My BIGGEST request though is making regaining consciousness when healed a player's choice.
Like I want to heal you so you don't die, but then you're forced to be conscious and so an enemy might hit you while you're vulnerable and now you're in a really bad spot.
Having the option would allow you to get up if it was necessary but you'd know it's a risk while the normal thing is to stay unconscious as to not draw agro while you're in a critical state.

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It seems like they don't want wack a mole to be a thing. They want the idea of popping back up and fighting to be a rare risky thing.

so this chart is saying that a fighter does on average 16.5 damage at lv9 right? wow, let me tell you about this super OP damage build. It's magic missile. Like the full round action version does 10.5 average damage per heightening, and heightening happens at the same level that people are expected to have a magic weapon upgrade. So at lv9 MM is averaging 31.5 damage from your top tier spells and 21 damage from your second best slots.
These two tiers, lv5 and lv9 seem to be competitive and great for all levels. And the spell gets better from there. Super OP damage

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