![]()
![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() pixierose wrote: Is it just me or does WoTC's response sound very condescending? And also the whole thing about them always planning to get feedback from the community feeling like a total lie since if the leaks are to be true they planned to release it as is. And in fact later on in their resposne they even go, well obviously we can't release it today. So like which is it WoTC? I have seen multiple people say exactly that. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() I got the sense Paizo was going to release their own OGL for Pathfinder and Starfinder based on some vague-tweets I saw from Paizo staff a few days ago. I did not expect them to bring everyone else in on it too! The contrast between WotC failing to meet rock bottom expectations and Paizo blowing all expectations out of the water is glorious. It's ORCing time! ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() Steve Geddes wrote:
And we don't have to just accept it because its Paizo. We can read the terms for ourselves and decide if it is fair. Personally, I expect if Paizo goes this route, it will be similar to OGL 1.0a... but crucially put in the language that explicitly hardcodes it being irrevocable. May be wrong about that, but it seems like PR coup right now. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() Opsylum wrote:
Given that this petition is being run by Grim Jim, one of the biggest misogynists in ttRPG space, could be maybe not? He's bad news and is undoubtably going to use this to try and rehabilitate his rightfully tarnished image. His beliefs are counter to everything Paizo stands for and I decidedly don't feel comfortable attaching my name to anything associated with him. Stopped clock and twice a day and all that. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() CorvusMask wrote:
Miscommunications happen and retcons happen. I for one think this is awesome. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() So hopefully not digging up the conversation too much since I'm a few days late, but I have to wholeheartedly agree with Keftiu. I'm working my way through the Knights of Lastwall book and the lore is taking a faction that didn't really resonate with me and making it into one I get and enjoy. The Firebrands and in a similar position - they haven't leaped out at me yet as a group I want to use, but I fully expect this book will give them the same treatment. The balance between crunch and lore in these books has ben excellent and I would be disappointed if we lost that wonderful world building. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() Kingvegeta9001 wrote:
Hearing there is a planar content is excellent news! ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() Feros wrote: This is concerning, as most of my Customer Service issues have been dealt with through the forums. There may be legitimate reasons for this change, but on the heels of the negative activity lately it doesn't feel right. I have to agree. Even if it is a coincidence, it doesn't look good and adds opacity in an area where transparency is required to re-earn customer trust. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() JiCi wrote:
It's in one of the fiction blogs. There's art of it too (Advanced Player's Guide IIRC) ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() Veradux21 wrote:
The bolded section is something I wanted to comment on. Erik, to his credit, did promise this and did not make excuses. But he also promised after it came to light that people had concerns about AoE that he would listen to those concerns. Reading between the lines of the open letter, it sounds like the exact same thing happened again (or alternatively, no one thought about the implications of previously raised concerns). So I believe Erik wants to do the right thing. I know he will say he will do the right thing. But at this point I don't know he'll actually, ya'know. Do it. I don't mean this as an attack on Erik's person or character, but it is an observation of history, if not repeating itself, certainly rhyming. It is a big part of why I have decided I need to take a break from Pathfinder for the foreseeable future. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() Please cancel my subscription and empty my sidecart. It is time for me to take a break from Paizo. I wish my reasons to be known, but to be absolutely clear, CS, freelancers, writers, developers, this is not on you. Y'all are rockstars, I love your work, but I need to step back. Love and respect, always. Management. This is 100% on your heads. I love Pathfinder. Truly and deeply. But I am so tired of the unforced errors and constant non-apologies. The open letter to Erik is the final straw for me. When AoE fall happened, it was clear that concerns within the company were not being listened to or addressed. I'm in the industry too, I know how long it takes to make books, but the first thing that should have happened AoE was double-checking if other book had similar flags raised. Especially those set on Absolom. Especially those being developed by the person who admitted to ignoring those red flags and promised to do better at listening to them. It becomes overtly clear to me that the promises made, even if they are made with the best of intentions, are just talk. This game is no longer bringing me joy. Not because the writing has changed. But because of the constant mess that surrounds it. It is time to reevaluate Paizo's structure starting with your places in it. I hope that in six months I can check back in and feel good about one of my favorite games again. I hope I'll be able to take my books out of storage. But honestly... I can't even look at them right now. They make me feel sick. And I ain't spending money on stuff I don't enjoy. So I hope I will find myself able to come back... but I doubt it. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() Master Han Del of the Web wrote:
Appreciate the sentiment. I feel bad for the freelancers and developers though. I love what they do, I love these worlds. I've had great conversations and been inspired by them over the years. I want to keep supporting them, but I just... can't at this point. It's not fun for me anymore. I have other games that probably means when I run RPG clubs and classes for my students, it will be with non-d20 systems. Hopefully that will broaden their horizons a bit. But yeah, this entire thing sucks mightily. I agree with your prediction. I am burnt out on work, I am burnt out on writing, I am burnt out on COVID. I can't change those, I'm burning out on my leisure too, that one at least I can fix. Just close the door and don't looking back. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() Yeah, I think this is where I pull the plug. Will think it over tonight, but this is yet another misstep, yet another time writers with concerns have been ignored, and yet another sign that Paizo needs a total management overhaul. So I expect in the morning I'll be cancelling my AP subscription for good. And to be clear, this ain't a boycot until things improve. This is the last several months having sucked all joy I get out of something I loved. And I honestly don't know if that can be fixed or the trust repaired at this point. Maybe I'll come back at some point in a vague undefined number of months. But now is the time to put my money and time into games that make me happy. And doesn't make me feel sick to my stomach. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() Kobold Cleaver wrote:
There was a point I'd have said that too, but that was before I'd had firsthand experience with how exhausting the TTRPG industry is from the freelancer side with people I love working with and who are super flexible. Once I clear the last couple of contracts on my plate, I'm bowing out for a good little while to avoid burnout. So I see SKR's post about a toxic workplace and it's a 100% no thank you, thank you very much from me. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() Or, if Popper's Paradox is not to your liking, maybe go read some of the seminal philosophy about free speech? Like, say, John Stewart Mill? Cause On Liberty is not a long or a hard read and it dealt with this right at the inception of liberal, free-speaking society's inception. Once exercising free speech causes harm to others, it is no longer free speech. If the choices you harm only yourself, you are entitled to make them, but if you bring pain to others, society has the right and obligation to censure you. So even if trans existence "is political" (protip: it's not), the argument still falls apart. This policy is coherent and consistent with the foundations of freedom of speech. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() Addendum: I've been struggling with whether or not to post material on Infinite. This update came within a hairsbreadth of deciding never to use the platform despite how excited I was for it. Infinite allows me to create the products I want in a way that the Dungeon Master's Guild does not. It has incredible potential and I was 99% willing to walk away from it. What took me down to 1% was this update. As I said initially, all of my goodwill was gone. What brought me back was the strong, staff-driven response against transphobia in the last couple of days. The desire and drive to fix things and confront problems rather than disappear from sight. I'm now open to it again because the company is not just the executives. Paizo's portions of the sales (hopefully) help everyone within. If I decide to make use of the community content program, know that is because of, and in support of, everyone plugging away on the front lines. I strongly encourage the executives to start taking notes. That should be all from me for the time being. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() Vasemir wrote:
Because one of the issues that kicked of #PaizoAccountability right before GenCon was systemic policies that were transphobic within Paizo, and ever since then trans members on these forums have been specifically attacked by a subset of posters. A metaphor we have used in English (or at least in Canada) lately is that everyone deserves healthcare, but it is the person whose leg got broken in an accident who needs immediate attention. Same thing here. All the groups identified are welcome in these forums and at time do need moderation to keep this place a safe space. But right now, the forums have a transphobia problem, so it is being specifically called to reassure our trans community members and to warn off those who would try to make this place unsafe for them. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() Let me phrase my feelings in a (perhaps) more positive way. The forum mod team has done more in the last 36 hours to rebuild my trust than this statement can or will ever do. It is a step rather than a whole solution or a fixed breech of trust, but it is a good one. Paizo's staff step up. Paizo's writers step up. Paizo's union steps up. It is abundantly clear who believes in the messages that have been written into the core of Pathfinder and Starfinder. It's not just talking the talk (especially the legalese talk we see here), it is walking the walk. It is time for Paizo's executives to follow their lead. Mods, thank you for giving me some hope. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() I have taken my time processing this statement. I have to say I am deeply disappointed by it. Many others have stated my concerns in a much more eloquent manner, so I will stand by their words. Transphobia in the workplace is unacceptable. Violating customers' privacy is also unacceptable. Offering feeble apologies and couching even that in terms of "allegations" and "perception" is frankly craven. The Paizo executives seem to want us to trust them that the right things will be done... but trust with the community has been broken. I wish to continue to support the freelancers and writers who have created a world I love, so I will continue to do so for the time being. But all the goodwill recognizing the PWU created has now been expended. Paizo remains on thin ice with me. Better hope that negotiations with the Union don't break down, because that might be enough to push me over the edge and not come back. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() keftiu wrote:
I'm happy to toss in more data points. I have freelanced for multiple not-Paizo books where I was the only white cis male. Most of my writing colleagues have been women. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() So each of the 2e skills keyed to a magical tradition can be used to recall knowledge about certain planes. I links between most of them, but why did the Shadow Plane end up linked to Arcana and Occultism? The best guess I have is that shadows are often associated with illusions (and thus the Mind essence) in d20 games, but it feels like a reach to me. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() Ian G wrote:
Maybe don't imply to trans folx that their experiences of transphobia are wrong? Even if you experience is different and intentions good, the way you have phrased this questions and dismisses what keftiu witnessed. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() James Jacobs wrote:
Been playing catch-up. Thank you for this James. And for everything. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() Cori Marie wrote: Especially when those endeavoring to put LGBT+ and PoC rep into the books are not the person being accused of the transphobia, but in fact the ones targeted by it. 100% (I skipped the word writers in my post, they were absolutely who I was referring to pushing for representation from within Paizo.)![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() Cintra Bristol wrote:
All of this. The Yoshua incident is deep disturbing. We trust Paizo to keep our private information private. If the CEO was willing to fling someone's information out in the heat of the moment, why should we be trusting the company he runs with it? We know that the people who Paizo's products stand against transphobia, but it's policies, both within the company and on the forums, need to do so explicitly. The former we may never know 100%, but the later we can see right before us. The trans members of our community are putting themselves on the front line and getting harassed for it. My cis ass is here to say that it needs to end. I know life absolutely sucks for CS right now and all compassion goes out to them, but in the last two weeks, the forums have become far more toxic and unsafe. I don't feel comfortable even lurking here anymore. Transphobia CANNOT be accepted and I dearly wish for there to be an explicit policy for forum user on how it will be moderated. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() FallenDabus wrote: Thanks for taking the time Mark! The content guidelines say we can sell "new game aids and accessories." Does that include non-textual aids? I am specifically thinking about 3D printable OBJ and STL files, which DTRPG does have the infrastructure to host and could be used to create unique miniatures and props. For those curious, I got a response from Mark in the FB group. STLs and OBJs currently not allowed, but they are chatting with their miniature partners to see how they'd feel about it. Probably won't see any movement on this from until after launch (which is entirely understandable and reasonable). ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() YawarFiesta wrote:
Woah, woah woah. I love community content programs dearly, but it's not "releasing the means of production" in any way that that phrase is used politically. DTRPG takes a 35% cut and the partner (Paizo in this case) takes 15%. Releasing the means of production would be making Lost Omens public domain (which, to be clear, I'm not advocating for). We don't need to rehash the many, many, many debates within the TTRPG writer sphere about whether those numbers are fair. But we also don't need to say a capitalist act is a socialist one. Infinite is an awesome idea, we can let it be what it is. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() keftiu wrote: As a trans woman who has loudly gone to bat for Paizo products /because/ of their inclusivity, I’m… really, really upset that the none of the statements have addressed this transphobia. It’s enough that I’m boycotting until it is acknowledged and addressed. For whatever its worth, I'm with you in solidarity and upset for the same reasons. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() Thanks for taking the time Mark! The content guidelines say we can sell "new game aids and accessories." Does that include non-textual aids? I am specifically thinking about 3D printable OBJ and STL files, which DTRPG does have the infrastructure to host and could be used to create unique miniatures and props. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() Lanathar wrote:
The point is not spending money on products we won't derive enjoyment from because of this. Nothing obliges people to continue buying a product if their tastes have moved on. For some people, this is enough and we have already acted. The hope is that transparency and change restore enough trust that one day we will enjoy them again. For some people it isn't, and I ain't going to tell to cancel their subs, but I am getting real tired of people coming in here questioning what I've done with mine. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() David knott 242 wrote:
I can tell you right now that a huge difference from the FAQ between the two programs is that Infinite also fiction, novels, and creative projects where the Guild does not. My reading also says that 3D printable files like STLs and OBJs are also allowed, although I would like to query that to be sure. So if you ever wanted to write a YA novel in Numeria, now is the time. Although I'm assuming a tawdry romance novel will be a no-go unless you ditch the tawdry part. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:
And I suspect a good number aren't saying why they cancelled in CS because CS staff don't need anything extra weighing on their minds right now. Source: that's what I did. Everyone is gonna do what is right for them. Let them do it in peace. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() keftiu wrote:
I was literally just wondering if you were going to do that. I'm also waiting for the same issue to be addressed before I create content. If 15% of my profit goes to Paizo, that needs to be brought up. (If anyone is wondering about the math, IIRC, OBS gets a 35% take in similar storefronts) ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() The Painted Oryx wrote:
I truly, truly hope you are right that things will change. But as one of those people who has canceled, I have to restate why I'm doing it. In light of these allegations and in light of Sara, the single hardest working customer-facing member of the staff, being fired in a manner that caused other CS members to quit in protest (and its Sara who is the deal-breaker for me)... In light of all of that, I will not enjoy Paizo products for the foreseeable future. There is zero reason for me to maintain my subscription for something I won't enjoy. I can't afford that right now. Not financially, not emotionally. So, I really do hope things turn around. I believe in the writers and developers who make Pathfinder and Starfinder great. I'm going to try and support them when I and where I can. You're right, we can't support everyone. But I also can't justify buying expensive luxury books and shipping them internationally in my budget when I won't get any pleasure out of them. And Jeff's statement has 100% reinforced for me that I made the right call. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() kayman wrote:
To not spend my money on products that I won't be able to enjoy because looking at them makes me think about what the managers at the company have done to their employees. And to get Paizo to change so that one day I can enjoy them again. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() I feel very much the same. I've held on to my subscription despite a financial crunch. Hell, I was contemplating adding a Starfinder subscription. Now, I see little reason to keep either. doc the grey wrote: This is a problem I have worried about for a long time, since phrenology was somehow added as an occult skill back in 1st and no one seemed to think that needed the axe, and continued through the firings and departures of some of the strongest talent in their offices. It is horrifying to hear what I was worried about for so long was true, and a cold relief that I hadn't bought 1st party stuff since the flip to 2nd. I feel this hurting like others do, and hope that something is done soon to correct this and begin the process of repair needed to make this better, something that will take a long time and a lot of work, but will be worth it if they plan to attract talent and foster real positive growth. I remember bringing that up on the forums at the time and people telling me it wasn't a big issue. Enlightening to see how it is part of the bigger picture, and not in a good way. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
![]() Having just binged the thread after leaving it unread since November, James, you have surpassed a saint's patience. Haven't read the Abomination Vaults properly yet, but really dug the article on Nhimbaloth you wrote. How did you get the idea of her being a predator that feeds on other predators? Coming at it from my background, it hits the depravity of the Empty Death and her cults really well since multiple tiers of predators feeding on each other is so ecologically unstable.
|