I disagree. Silence can be interpreted in a couple different ways. Maybe the silent party is unaware of you (and your problem), maybe they are deliberately ignoring you (in hopes the problem goes away).
This is different. This is someone telling me that information exists, that that information could just be doled out right this instant, but that they won't reveal it. Unless this project is getting shuffled off to yet another company I can't see how any announcement here could have moving parts. I am left with only one reasonable conclusion: someone in the company doesn't want to risk a scandal or controversy right before a big expo event like Paizocon. Which leads me to conclude that the information will be yet another piece of bad news
Hopefully I am proven wrong, but that would take information actually being shared with us instead of dangled over our heads.
The news must be pretty complicated if it's taken your tech team over a month to get this announcement ready. I certainly hope it isn't yet another "kick the can down the road" moment.
It's strange, in the time since this whole debacle started I've progressed Leaps and bounds in my career, to the point where losing $400 only stings a bit. I've gone through entire campaigns, friendships have come and gone, whole friend groups have disintegrated around me, new ones have coalesced. Family have married, had kids, loved ones have died. And yet here this is.
Even if this delivers I don't have a use for it anymore. The best case scenario here is one day I get a package out of nowhere with a bunch of disassembled figurines I don't have the time to assemble, let alone paint. Just a physical reminder of how much I got let down by Paizo. I can remember a day when I would have been satisfied with store credit to compensate me for my mistake, but even if I were to get it, what would I even do with it?
Well, if we do some figuring...
At present Archon has 16 Miniatures from the campaign available for sale (I am counting the Drone as a separate miniature and not counting the named NPCs).
The Kickstarter has 103 individual miniature designs (104 if you count Ryophorians as 2).
In the 21 month space of Archon's involvement of the project they have completed 16% of the project (rounding up from 15.5).
At present pace they could be completed as early as Christmas 2025.
I know I trusted Paizo. I was in the middle of a period of working 70 hours a week, saw a social media posting from Paizo about a Miniatures Kickstarter for Starfinder. At the time I had money, but, well, no time. I didn't check that Paizo was collaborating with a competent
At this point I haven't purchased a Paizo product since the 2e Playtest book, and have no intention of doing so again until this debacle is concluded and I am made whole (be it through Archon finishing the KS or Paizo issuing compensatory store credit for digital media, or something similar) , or I achieve such a degree of career success that $400 ceases to be a meaningful amount of money.
Ok fine, we get it, shipping is cool, shipping is great, shipping is awesome. We all love shipping, whatever.
That still leaves us over half a year behind schedule on miniature design. And the process should be easier because the miniatures are coming to us disassembled. Pays to remember that unwanted Alteration.
Yet even with that entire step of the process removed we are still behind, and when the powers that be do step in to acknowledge this thread it is to elaborate on a virtual non sequitor. We get that wave 3 shipping is problematic.
My questions are simple: Where are waves 4-12? Will we ever get a straightforward answer to why Archon is working at quarter-speed? Why were posts disappearing a while back? How long would you be willing to wait for information like this?
I guess "13 months and counting" and "6 months" are "roughly the same?"
This is more a question of manufacturing timing than anything. Unless the conclusion is that Archon and Paizo lied to us about the timing of the shipments, and are deliberately stalling on fulfillment in hopes they'll be in better shape financially later?
The answer provided emphatically does not answer the question of why the waves are so far apart...
I want to sincerely wish Archon well, but this debacle seems to purge all parties involved in fulfillment of full competence. Absent a look into their heads it feels like they took on the task, swiftly realized that Ninja Division had no sculpt files (necessitating full sculpts of all miniatures), and have decided to join ND in walking in place until we all give up.
Communicate, for heavens sake! Do something with my words besides ignore them! I'm begging you, please make me eat these words by keeping your promises...
Well, we are an entire year out from this announcement, so let's see where we are...
Archon has yet to distribute anything to the bulk of backers, despite not 1 but 2 six month periods elapsing.
At no point have any of us been informed if we will get the duplicate miniatures we were promised.
Ninja Division has yet to provide any sort of proof they can handle the shipping obligations they still have stateside.
The local community I game with has dropped Starfinder entirely, so even if I was to obtain everything on my doorstep tomorrow I would have basically no use for them.
Paizo's new policy of just quietly memory holing comments they don't like is troubling, and seems to indicate that someone is monitoring the thread, but would rather gaslight than engage.
Yeah, popping on for 2 minutes and copypasting something from Archon, then vanishing again is a bit underwhelming. I guess if you aren't searching for information or following the comments it is helpful, but it is FAR below what is to be expected at this point. Your colleagues should be doing everything in their power to avoid doing further damage to your credibility as a company, because at this point even once I've been made whole I can't trust QC on anything you license out to a 3rd party anymore.
Saw that. At this rate (Completely discarding the last couple months due to the plague) those of us who haven't paid extra for what we already paid for will be getting the first portion of our consolation prize for this debacle sometime in January of 2021
It will take 4 years to fulfill this project at its present pace, assuming absolutely no disruptions whatsoever. Still no clear answer about whether we'll get the duplicates we paid for. Still no communication on Kickstarter. Goodwill is a nonrenewable resource.
In their defense, Covid-19 has happened in some of those months. Granted:they were behind on fulfillment before the virus, but the past couple months they at least have a good excuse for not getting anything done.
As for now? Ninja Division lack the baseline intellect to operate an electronic device of higher complexity than a pager, so there's been no update from them on the KS page about any delays whatsoever. We're now 5 months away from their last communication with us, and 3 months out from the last time they even logged into the site. If they delay much longer, I might just do my civic duty and file missing persons reports for 'em.
How about maybe don't make promises until you know you can keep them, or maybe make gaining control of the line of communication so you can keep people in the loop a priority? Archon voluntarily took on this task, likely as part of getting the IP license. Am I out of line for having a expectation of mere competence here, as someone who has literally hundreds sunk into this?
6 months ago yesterday us KS backers were told that every approximately 6 months the pledge rewards produced in the last 6 months would be shipped to us, free of charge.
When did that 6 month timer start? What happens if there is failure to deliver at that point? Is giving us the option to cash out for Paizobux an option Paizo would ever consider in all this?
ND isn't behind on this step yet. Archon is at present almost months behind their stated plans. Ninja Division is to ship minis come mid-April if we're being charitable.
I fully expect Ninja Division to fail because a man swollen with denial like Cadice will inevitably run aground of reality. When he fails again we'll see what Paizo does with this albatross.
Small business owners with excessive financial obligations don't go on vacations abroad like that. I know because small business owners without such massive debt don't typically do that. Maybe things are different out in Potatoland, I don't know. Makes you think...
Maybe Cadice was meeting with people for business while he was overseas? Maybe he took the shipping money and went on the vacation of his dreams? Maybe this was paid for by his day job at the local hardware store?
Know what would be nice? Updates so we don't descend to endless speculation. Like it or not, in an absence of information people will seek it out wherever it can be found. If updates are too difficult, ND should refund the shipping money and divest from the project entirely so we can pay Archon directly for shipping.
Vic Wertz wrote:
Can I get my Kickstarter Shipping Charge refunded if I do this, considering ND would at that point be completely uninvolved in the fulfillment?
Jim Butler wrote:
Is there a way to demonstrate that Ninja Division has the capacity to do anything they claim to? Can you provide some sort of official proof they actually have any money for shipping? If they "run out of bubble wrap" or "can't find the GO button" is Paizo prepared to either shoulder the shipping burden or find yet another company willing to do so?
Please understand these guys are the reason this project is now 24 months behind schedule, it's a little hard for me to believe in this baseline level of competence from ND. It is especially difficult because the main obstacle I've had finding someone to buy my pledge has been the fact that ND IS STILL INVOLVED WITH SHIPPING. Potentially interested people don't trust them to ship a blasted thing at this point.
You might also want to check your secret contract to figure out if intentionally ignoring the backers can be considered evidence of bad faith. We can see how frequently they log on, so we can tell that someone over there does a lot of lurking.
No, don't you see? It isn't fraud so long as you say you have every intention of fulfilling the project, even if you know you can't, even if you take steps to ensure you won't. All you have to do is say you have every intention of fulfilling the project, and you are golden on grifting hundreds of thousands.
Oh, before I forget...44 days and counting.
Jim Butler wrote:
2 weeks later, still no update from either ND or Archon. We can see they've logged onto Kickstarter in the interim, but they're still ghosting us, and apparently you as well.
There was a 2nd update back in late August where they revealed their piecemeal miniatures.
Cori Marie wrote:
They in this case was Ninja Division, not Paizo. Paizo's only less victim than us because they can actually communicate to ND and be acknowledged.
Granted, the fact that a week later there's been nothing to show for their efforts would seem to indicate that ND feels they can safely ignore Paizo as well.