Damiel Morgethai

technarken's page

Organized Play Member. 785 posts (795 including aliases). 1 review. No lists. No wishlists. 18 Organized Play characters. 2 aliases.


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Well, that's weeks earlier than I expected, and now I have the dubious privilege of paying money for a service I already paid for to provide me a product I didn't order. I get that Paizo can't exactly take a 30k hit in the pocketbook right now, but paying shipping twice is an almost comical level of buffoonery at this point. I suppose they could arrive deliberately misassembled and prepainted in garish colors to top off the farce this whole process has been.

On another note, I sincerely hope Paizo have managed to wring every last fractional cent out of Ninja Division for breaching their contracts with them. Lord knows it couldn't happen to a more deserving exemplar of flim-flammery.


Now that Paizocon is over, I suppose Gencon will now take up all the "bandwidth" over there. I guess I'll check back in mid-August to observe this ongoing debacle shamble on.


I disagree. Silence can be interpreted in a couple different ways. Maybe the silent party is unaware of you (and your problem), maybe they are deliberately ignoring you (in hopes the problem goes away).

This is different. This is someone telling me that information exists, that that information could just be doled out right this instant, but that they won't reveal it. Unless this project is getting shuffled off to yet another company I can't see how any announcement here could have moving parts. I am left with only one reasonable conclusion: someone in the company doesn't want to risk a scandal or controversy right before a big expo event like Paizocon. Which leads me to conclude that the information will be yet another piece of bad news

Hopefully I am proven wrong, but that would take information actually being shared with us instead of dangled over our heads.


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The news must be pretty complicated if it's taken your tech team over a month to get this announcement ready. I certainly hope it isn't yet another "kick the can down the road" moment.

It's strange, in the time since this whole debacle started I've progressed Leaps and bounds in my career, to the point where losing $400 only stings a bit. I've gone through entire campaigns, friendships have come and gone, whole friend groups have disintegrated around me, new ones have coalesced. Family have married, had kids, loved ones have died. And yet here this is.

Even if this delivers I don't have a use for it anymore. The best case scenario here is one day I get a package out of nowhere with a bunch of disassembled figurines I don't have the time to assemble, let alone paint. Just a physical reminder of how much I got let down by Paizo. I can remember a day when I would have been satisfied with store credit to compensate me for my mistake, but even if I were to get it, what would I even do with it?


Hey, Paizo doesn't want to breach contract, even if Ninja Division is actively flipping off the contract and spitting in their face, Cadice might suddenly become competent enough to pursue legal action if Paizo so much as sneezes back


Hayato Ken wrote:


In hindsight i have to say though, compared to a lot of others, this kickstarter was very expensive right from the start.

It's a good thing the backers gave Ninja Division over half a million dollars then, isn't it?


Well, if we do some figuring...

At present Archon has 16 Miniatures from the campaign available for sale (I am counting the Drone as a separate miniature and not counting the named NPCs).

The Kickstarter has 103 individual miniature designs (104 if you count Ryophorians as 2).

In the 21 month space of Archon's involvement of the project they have completed 16% of the project (rounding up from 15.5).

At present pace they could be completed as early as Christmas 2025.


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Is there any plan in place to compensate backers who ordered multiple copies of the same miniature model if Archon does not opt to fulfill for that?


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Did we just get "We Know Where You Live"d by the president of Paizo?


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Any comment on the posts disappearing? It seems to only be things that can be interpreted as disparaging toward Paizo. Used to be the old mods would leave behind a comment when they disappeared something explaining that something was missing at least...


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I know I trusted Paizo. I was in the middle of a period of working 70 hours a week, saw a social media posting from Paizo about a Miniatures Kickstarter for Starfinder. At the time I had money, but, well, no time. I didn't check that Paizo was collaborating with a competent
company, why would I? All I'd ever known was a company whose worst quality to me was occasionally going too far with their errata, not tossing their IP to the wolves.

At this point I haven't purchased a Paizo product since the 2e Playtest book, and have no intention of doing so again until this debacle is concluded and I am made whole (be it through Archon finishing the KS or Paizo issuing compensatory store credit for digital media, or something similar) , or I achieve such a degree of career success that $400 ceases to be a meaningful amount of money.


Ok fine, we get it, shipping is cool, shipping is great, shipping is awesome. We all love shipping, whatever.

That still leaves us over half a year behind schedule on miniature design. And the process should be easier because the miniatures are coming to us disassembled. Pays to remember that unwanted Alteration.

Yet even with that entire step of the process removed we are still behind, and when the powers that be do step in to acknowledge this thread it is to elaborate on a virtual non sequitor. We get that wave 3 shipping is problematic.

My questions are simple: Where are waves 4-12? Will we ever get a straightforward answer to why Archon is working at quarter-speed? Why were posts disappearing a while back? How long would you be willing to wait for information like this?


I guess "13 months and counting" and "6 months" are "roughly the same?"

This is more a question of manufacturing timing than anything. Unless the conclusion is that Archon and Paizo lied to us about the timing of the shipments, and are deliberately stalling on fulfillment in hopes they'll be in better shape financially later?

The answer provided emphatically does not answer the question of why the waves are so far apart...


I want to sincerely wish Archon well, but this debacle seems to purge all parties involved in fulfillment of full competence. Absent a look into their heads it feels like they took on the task, swiftly realized that Ninja Division had no sculpt files (necessitating full sculpts of all miniatures), and have decided to join ND in walking in place until we all give up.

Communicate, for heavens sake! Do something with my words besides ignore them! I'm begging you, please make me eat these words by keeping your promises...


Well, we are an entire year out from this announcement, so let's see where we are...

Archon has yet to distribute anything to the bulk of backers, despite not 1 but 2 six month periods elapsing.

At no point have any of us been informed if we will get the duplicate miniatures we were promised.

Ninja Division has yet to provide any sort of proof they can handle the shipping obligations they still have stateside.

The local community I game with has dropped Starfinder entirely, so even if I was to obtain everything on my doorstep tomorrow I would have basically no use for them.

Paizo's new policy of just quietly memory holing comments they don't like is troubling, and seems to indicate that someone is monitoring the thread, but would rather gaslight than engage.


Its Gen-Con weekend, so we aren't likely to get anything out of them for a while, unless this project should somehow wind up seriously detrimental to their bottom line or something.


I've also moved on thanks to how thoroughly this fiasco has soured me on Paizo as a company. I never thought these guys of all people would prioritize profits to this degree, but here we are. ND gets to smoke bomb away with half a million, Archon is left with responsibility for the mess.


Yeah, popping on for 2 minutes and copypasting something from Archon, then vanishing again is a bit underwhelming. I guess if you aren't searching for information or following the comments it is helpful, but it is FAR below what is to be expected at this point. Your colleagues should be doing everything in their power to avoid doing further damage to your credibility as a company, because at this point even once I've been made whole I can't trust QC on anything you license out to a 3rd party anymore.


Saw that. At this rate (Completely discarding the last couple months due to the plague) those of us who haven't paid extra for what we already paid for will be getting the first portion of our consolation prize for this debacle sometime in January of 2021

It will take 4 years to fulfill this project at its present pace, assuming absolutely no disruptions whatsoever. Still no clear answer about whether we'll get the duplicates we paid for. Still no communication on Kickstarter. Goodwill is a nonrenewable resource.


In their defense, Covid-19 has happened in some of those months. Granted:they were behind on fulfillment before the virus, but the past couple months they at least have a good excuse for not getting anything done.

As for now? Ninja Division lack the baseline intellect to operate an electronic device of higher complexity than a pager, so there's been no update from them on the KS page about any delays whatsoever. We're now 5 months away from their last communication with us, and 3 months out from the last time they even logged into the site. If they delay much longer, I might just do my civic duty and file missing persons reports for 'em.


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How about maybe don't make promises until you know you can keep them, or maybe make gaining control of the line of communication so you can keep people in the loop a priority? Archon voluntarily took on this task, likely as part of getting the IP license. Am I out of line for having a expectation of mere competence here, as someone who has literally hundreds sunk into this?


Will we be getting the shipment now that we're 6 months in as promised, or is the chain of falsehood getting another link?


So every six months1 year then. Got it. Can't wait. Whee.


Deadlines are already passing by, Archon have clammed up at the Encounter Pack Question, and Paizo is wild shaped into an Ostrich.


Anywhere between 2 days ago, and 2 months from now, depending on when the vague lack of deadline even is.

Transparency is too much to ask as long as Cadice is in control of the Kickstarter page


6 months ago yesterday us KS backers were told that every approximately 6 months the pledge rewards produced in the last 6 months would be shipped to us, free of charge.

When did that 6 month timer start? What happens if there is failure to deliver at that point? Is giving us the option to cash out for Paizobux an option Paizo would ever consider in all this?


Still confused, given up on a straight answer.


ND isn't behind on this step yet. Archon is at present almost months behind their stated plans. Ninja Division is to ship minis come mid-April if we're being charitable.

I fully expect Ninja Division to fail because a man swollen with denial like Cadice will inevitably run aground of reality. When he fails again we'll see what Paizo does with this albatross.


What happens to the parts of the package that entail multiple of the same mini? Are we getting shorted on encounter packs?


A week later, any answers?


I guess if we're being shorted minis it won't take as long for ND to fail at fulfillment? (Tarnished) Silver Lining, I guess?


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The (convenient) Void of Nonexistence would be my guess.


Small business owners with excessive financial obligations don't go on vacations abroad like that. I know because small business owners without such massive debt don't typically do that. Maybe things are different out in Potatoland, I don't know. Makes you think...

Maybe Cadice was meeting with people for business while he was overseas? Maybe he took the shipping money and went on the vacation of his dreams? Maybe this was paid for by his day job at the local hardware store?

Know what would be nice? Updates so we don't descend to endless speculation. Like it or not, in an absence of information people will seek it out wherever it can be found. If updates are too difficult, ND should refund the shipping money and divest from the project entirely so we can pay Archon directly for shipping.


Can we get any form of confirmation that ND has more than a handful of pocket lint and a quarter actually set aside for shipping costs? They are claiming on their other Kickstarter pages that they are no longer expending any attention or resources on Starfinder fulfillment.


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Color me surprised...


I look forward to the inevitable "We ran out of bubble wrap" postings in 6 months, followed by 3 months of ghosting then.


Vic Wertz wrote:
Jim Butler wrote:

[...] If a Kickstarter backer purchases Zo, will Archon ship both Zo and their pledged miniatures at the same time? If yes, does this apply to backers worldwide? If no, how does that process work?

Yes, Archon Studio will ship the new miniature, plus all currently produced miniatures produced that match your pledge level.

What if a Kickstarter backer does not purchase any of the new figures from Archon Studio?

Miniatures will be shipped after (roughly) 6 monthly waves. Shipping is handled as follows:

-Archon Studio fulfills EU orders

In addition, If you backed an Archon Studio Kickstarter and are waiting for those items, they will ship any outstanding Ninja Division minis to you worldwide once those products ship.

Ninja Division will fulfill NA and Rest of World

So if you're outside of the EU, but you really don't want your minis shipped by ND, you could buy a single mini from Archon before wave 6 is released, and Archon will ship your first 5 waves of backer minis along with the one you're ordering.

Can I get my Kickstarter Shipping Charge refunded if I do this, considering ND would at that point be completely uninvolved in the fulfillment?


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Jim Butler wrote:


Ninja Division will fulfill NA and Rest of World

I know there's been some concern about how Ninja Division can afford shipping charges. It's my understanding that they've set money aside from their Humble Bundles and from their ongoing sales to pay for shipping.

Let me know if you have any more questions.

-Jim

Is there a way to demonstrate that Ninja Division has the capacity to do anything they claim to? Can you provide some sort of official proof they actually have any money for shipping? If they "run out of bubble wrap" or "can't find the GO button" is Paizo prepared to either shoulder the shipping burden or find yet another company willing to do so?

Please understand these guys are the reason this project is now 24 months behind schedule, it's a little hard for me to believe in this baseline level of competence from ND. It is especially difficult because the main obstacle I've had finding someone to buy my pledge has been the fact that ND IS STILL INVOLVED WITH SHIPPING. Potentially interested people don't trust them to ship a blasted thing at this point.

You might also want to check your secret contract to figure out if intentionally ignoring the backers can be considered evidence of bad faith. We can see how frequently they log on, so we can tell that someone over there does a lot of lurking.


So, anybody out there still interested in buying an All-In Pledge of disassembled miniatures?

25% off, for $300 it could be yours.


When I emailed them I got an autoreply directing me to contact Archon and a doc file explaining how to change shipping address, so I guess there we have it.


I have this funny feeling that Technarken will not make it through this "case-by-case" basis should they try to transfer their pledge.


No, don't you see? It isn't fraud so long as you say you have every intention of fulfilling the project, even if you know you can't, even if you take steps to ensure you won't. All you have to do is say you have every intention of fulfilling the project, and you are golden on grifting hundreds of thousands.

Oh, before I forget...44 days and counting.


43 days and counting...


Jim Butler wrote:

I've reached out to Archon and Ninja Division to get an update posted for the Kickstarter backers, to get the Pledge Manager unlocked, and to answer your question about transfers.

-Jim

2 weeks later, still no update from either ND or Archon. We can see they've logged onto Kickstarter in the interim, but they're still ghosting us, and apparently you as well.


Peachbottom wrote:

Well unless Archon starts communicating, or even better, actually delivering on something, the expectation that we are getting nothing will continue.

Is Archon communicating somewhere outside of the Kickstarter page? Because I haven't seen anything from them except for the one post saying they were taking over.

There was a 2nd update back in late August where they revealed their piecemeal miniatures.


Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
Y’all forgive us if we don’t believe that after this thread and the other.

Hey, at this point I can see Paizo got scammed just like us backers did.


They said in their press releases they'd be doing monthly releases. That was 2 months ago. Paizo clarified that they'd be doing monthly releases once they actually got started. 1 month ago Archon announced they'd actually got started. As of 4 days ago, Archon're behind schedule.


Cori Marie wrote:
technarken wrote:
Ninja Division has no incentive to help us, and at this point I'd say no incentive to listen to Paizo either. They got our money, and shoved their obligations onto Archon and now are just ignoring the world.
Paizo did not get your money. I understand you're frustrated by Ninja, but Paizo is working to try to get you something after Ninja failed to deliver. Paizo is out in this endeavor too, but you refuse to see that.

They in this case was Ninja Division, not Paizo. Paizo's only less victim than us because they can actually communicate to ND and be acknowledged.

Granted, the fact that a week later there's been nothing to show for their efforts would seem to indicate that ND feels they can safely ignore Paizo as well.


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Ninja Division has no incentive to help us, and at this point I'd say no incentive to listen to Paizo either. They got our money, and shoved their obligations onto Archon and now are just ignoring the world.


For purely informational purposes, it has been 1 month since the last activity on ND's part on the Kickstarter page. ND have not even logged in to their project page in over a week. As of tomorrow, September 27th 2019, we are back to fulfillment being behind schedule.