Damiel Morgethai

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FullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 713 posts (723 including aliases). 1 review. No lists. No wishlists. 18 Organized Play characters. 2 aliases.


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Knowing ND, the NDA probably does prohibit Paizo from answering those questions.


Nice clause for future business dealings might be something to the effect of "If you go radio silent too long with your customers about a project we're involved in, any NDA between us is voided"


Doesn't make it any less infuriating, but accuracy is important. They burned our money with Paizo's help and stalled out 1 year ago, not 2. Paizo is not involved (to my knowledge at least) with their other Ponzis


Well, we're coming up on another month of absolute radio silence from our 'friends' at ND.


At their present rate, likely within a decade


I mean, what proof do we have that anything but the prepaints even have ND Sculpts?


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I don't think Paizo's cut of this would cover ND's debt to Archon. Besides, doing that would be a horrible decision for Paizo to make, considering ND would likely just fumble the ball again by running out of bubble wrap or packing peanuts. Paizo would then be left with ND in debt to them, with no way for them to pay it off, and the minis would still be out of backer hands.

Paizo would have to actually believe ND to be competent and have the spare capital to risk. Considering the current situation they're in financially, I don't blame them for the inaction there.


I still can't be sure the sculpts exist considering the number of lies ND already has in play here


Erik Mona wrote:

Folks,

I wanted to drop by to share a conundrum, and to share a bit of my perspective on affairs of the last week.

The conundrum is this: Throughout this process with Ninja Division, but after we realized they were going to have significant difficulties pulling this project across the finish line, there have been numerous behind-the-scenes developments or potential fixes that we have heard about, but that have not come to fruition.

That sort of thing puts us in a difficult place regarding communications. Do we share our sense of hope, only to have it dashed again when something doesn't come through? That's certainly a dilemma that has played into us not being as frequent with updates in the past as we should have been.

I don't want to get people's hopes up, even if I see signs of incremental progress behind the scenes. I hope you all can understand that when we make an announcement regarding this project, we want to be EXTRA CERTAIN that we understand the details and have faith that they are going to occur before sharing them in public.

So I don't have details to convey, and I don't want to give the impression that a solution is in sight or that it looks like the project is back on the road or whatever.

But I DO want to share that, behind the scenes, we have seen a LOT of evidence--especially since the GAMA Trade Show--that Ninja Division is actively working to move the project forward and find solutions for their many difficulties.

I have proof that these guys ARE trying, and some of that is encouraging. I don't want to say more than that, but I do want you guys to know and understand that much at least.

Thanks for your continuing patience, or at least for your continuing attention.

Is "Set a date sometime in mid-late 2020. If they haven't fulfilled by then, we'll stop power-leveling our thumb-twiddling skill and act." too much to ask?


kadance wrote:
I understand the announcement was recent, but how far into the ND fiasco did the talks with WizKids start?

I second this


Sorry for (the vast majority of) my vitriol.


If Paizo owns the files and could technically fulfill the KS project by releasing them (with some sort of legalese to fill out) to backers, I'll happily take that. It will at least be something. I've got a buddy with a 3d Printer and everything.

If Paizo does not own the files, for the love of God call his bluff.


Context on the Hawaiian Punch line: he was responding to my comment "It looks like JSC is abandoning us again since we didn't drink the koolaid" from 3 weeks before. What a witty comeback.

I must admit, I was misled about the situation with Archon, and would eat my hat if I had one on that.

Still don't have any explanation for why Ninja Division's financial disclosures to a state AG and to the KS backers are mutually exclusive.
Still have no concrete information about how this project is going to be fulfilled.
Still nothing from the people at Paizo we were assured would have something to say.
Still no miniatures.
Still out $400.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
"Summersnow” wrote:
Given the provocation by Ninja Division I wouldn't want Paizo to work with a company that took offense at them "breaking contract" when it seems clear that Ninja Division deliberately entered into said contract fraudulently with the intention to screw Paizo from the get go.
There is a lot of understandable but speculative rethoric in that response, so I will return to watching this thread rather than continue inciting you.

Concrete information has a way of eliminating speculation.


Diego Valdez wrote:
As I mentioned in my previous post, customer service does not have the power to say anything beyond what Sara has posted. Which you just said you don't want to hear. Likewise, as I mentioned above, we have been making sure this thread stays visible to the company higher ups. Despite your assumption of 10 minutes, you have no idea how much time and energy myself or my colleagues have put into doing so.

Maybe with access to more information people wouldn't be left with a blank space for their minds to spin theories out on?


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Its scattered all over the place, boardgamegeek, the chibi gamers Facebook, the kickstarter page, a couple Archon Studios pages, even back a few pages in this forum. The end of March is the end of (if I understand it correctly) a fiscal quarter where Archon's warehouses are. If the minis they've already manufactured are there at the end of the quarter, they get taxed for them. The whole reason Paizo was doing negotiations with Archon was to try and get their hands on them before they were destroyed by Archon to avoid paying taxes for what Ninja Division couldn't afford to pay for.


Well, at least Archon will be destroying the minis in a couple weeks, so Paizo should be able to quit being vague then.


Looks like JSC has abandoned the KS, and somebody scrubbed some comments from the "Ninja Division Failed Out The Gate" forum thread


Never got a reply, but then again I wasn't a backer of Archon, so I guess it makes sense


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MadMattUK wrote:
Sara Marie wrote:
"does not put backers' prospects of receiving miniatures from Ninja Division's kickstarter campaign at further risk. "
A fine sentiment but I'm not sure how our chances of receiving any figures can drop below 0%.

I think they're haggling with Archon Studios to try and get the Starfinder Minis already manufactured out of Ninja Division's custody.


The autoreply said to expect a proper response in 2 days


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kadance wrote:
Got a link?

Archon choke-slams Ninja Division under a bus

I got an auto-reply from that email within half an hour.


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Archon has a new update. Looks like you might be able to get Starfinder miniatures through Archon now


Raakam wrote:

It seems to me it boils down to some simple questions:

* Is Paizo happy with the decision they made?

* Is the goodwill of some of their fans a price they are willing to pay for having miniatures on the market for the rest of their playerbase? In other words, how much damage has their brand sustained over this?

* Did it make financial sense for them to proceed with this kickstarter?

1. Obviously not. Now they know we know they got paid for this, so I think they'd be even less happy.

2. Considering the people willing to plonk hundreds down on preordering minis sight unseen would be almost entirely outspoken fans? I would hope not. It's certainly crushed my desire to buy Paizo products, and that was a desire literally thousands of dollars strong

3. Of course. They get paid 28k and all it costs them is goodwill later down the line if the KS fails.


Is 0 greater than, less than, or equal to, -1?


Silas Stadatilas wrote:
technarken wrote:
Nice to know Paizo made $28k on this Kickstarter.

Quick question, was the way you did the math: $457,539 (the amount Kickstarter lists the pledged amount at) times 6.3% royalties (as listed on the Starfinder Masterclass pie chart in Update #47 Breaking Radio Silenc) to give you $28,824.96.

Wasn't there an additional approximately $190,000 in funding? (Look at the comments under the Breaking Radio Silenc update, and I think there were posts earlier in this thread.) If so, then wouldn't the amount of royalties be more like $40k?

Just didn't know if you included after campaign pledges in your calculation or not.

Oh, just curious, did Ninja Division violate the NDA by releasing the percentage of royalties paid?

EDIT: mistyped Starfinder as Sartfinder.

I did not include the post-campaign pledge money because I firmly believe ND just pocketed that along with the $35 I paid for shipping.

They can always claim that someone else got royalties, heck they can pay themselves royalties if they want thanks to how their companies are structured. Which is worse?


Nice to know Paizo made $28k on this Kickstarter.


SombreroDeLaNuit wrote:
Thanks Technarken ... that's seem almost encouraging... (at least they seem to be talking...)

That comment was posted on a random Facebook group. Not one of the multiple stalled Kickstarters, not on their site, not even on their own social media. A random Facebook group is apparently more deserving than the people that have paid this guy's bills for the last couple years.

I dunno about you, but it makes me angry.


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Actual Thrice-Damning News

That's an interesting (publically available) place to find news...


Any comment on Cadice deciding to start replying to questions on a random Facebook group?

What about Archon's potential liquidation of all existing Starfinder Minis currently in storage at their warehouse (because ND didn't pay them)? Has Paizo had a chance to peruse Archon's offer on what to do with their Starfinder inventory?

A lot happened in the last couple days, sorry.

Btw, all of this is available on a publically viewable page. Draw your own conclusions about it.
Thrice Damned News


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damning news wrote:
The company had been giving its backers updates — 132 of them — but “communication from a small group of backers has become increasingly vocal and hostile” and threatening, it said. Cadice told the Statesman that’s why the company stopped engaging with its customers.

People tend to do this when they become convinced you're cheating them. It took me MONTHS before I became vocal, but I became vocal because nobody was talking to me.


Yoshua wrote:
Haven't seen anyone talking about it. Hope Paizo has rescinded any invitations to Ninja Division for Paizocon....

What are you talking about? Give them more opportunities to either interact with the community or publically decline. They can't manage logging in to their own accounts, maybe they can manage the posture to sit upright in a chair?


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Damning news

Just gonna leave this here...


GM Rednal said we needed to ask questions. I think I've encompassed quite a bit of what I'd like to know in a couple questions.


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Has Ninja Division provided Paizo with a timeline of when they expect to be able to fulfill all of their obligations to backers, and if so, can you tell us what it is?

Has Ninja Division provided Paizo an explanation for going completely radio silent to their backers for 3 months now, and if so, can you tell us what it is?

Did Paizo approach Ninja Division for this project, or did Ninja Division approach Paizo?

Does Paizo have a plan in place for Ninja Division completely failing to deliver on anything from here on out, and if so, can you tell us what it is?

How much of the $500k that this kickstarter pulled in did Paizo receive for their licensing?

Why does the contract Paizo has with Ninja Division have stringent measures in place regarding disclosure of information, but nothing at all in place regarding one party in the contract doing their very best performance of "Fleeing the Country With the Money in D Major"?


I'll step away when I in some way have back the chunk of blood, sweat, and tears I handed to ND at Paizo's recommendation.


Misroi wrote:

Or, it could be that Paizo is very cognizant that anything that comes from a Paizo employee and is posted on this board could be actionable in court. I know everyone wants transparency here, but all it takes is for someone to pop in here and say "Ninja Division did XYZ," and then they could have a lawsuit on their hands from ND.

Plus, it looks bad for other people they could do business with in the future. If they set the example with this by airing ND's dirty laundry, then other companies might look at that and decide against partnering with Paizo. That's bad as well.

I get that everyone's super upset with how this has turned out. I suspect that Paizo is as well. They're just far more limited in what they can say than you or I.

I don't think ND is competent enough to even find a lawyer on their own.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
technarken wrote:
Oh, there's plenty they can do. It's just all of those actions would breach a contract we've not seen and cost Paizo more money than it would earn them good will.
What exactly do you think they could do? It seems to be trying to get blood from an orange at this point.

They can do a lot of things. They could give a proportional amount of store credit, they could be transparent about what lies Ninja Division told them, they could force Ninja Division to actually talk to the people that've paid their bills (you need results for the label of investor or customer to be appropriate).

Most of those things just risk incurring the wrath of a Ponzi racket who might be able to bluff their way into legal representation.
Considering Ninja Division aren't collectively competent enough to successfully log in to a website given 3 months time I find it unlikely, but they might manage to blunder their way into a lawyer.


Oh, there's plenty they can do. It's just all of those actions would breach a contract we've not seen and cost Paizo more money than it would earn them good will.


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When there is substantive silence hearsay is deafening


TOZ wrote:
I don't think Paizo is going to comment on hearsay.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2120982/legends-homebrew/page/1

It's people on Boardgamegeek claiming Cadice is in private communications with the homebrew community for his IP.


Does Paizo have any comment on the recent revelation that ND leadership is (apparently) only willing to communicate with people in private only if they're offering to give ND free work and/or publicity?


Apparently John Cadice is actively communicating with certain people still sympathetic to ND via a "secret Discord account" and Facebook. Check the Super Dungeon Explore Legends KS page


TOZ wrote:
Keep the spec for the molds to themselves and not let anyone else use them? Any other company is going to have to develop that themselves anyway, but by continuing to communicate, there is the chance that all that time and effort can still produce more minis.

I've got 50 acres of prime oceanfront property for sale in Oklahoma, any takers?


I mean, if Paizo did break contract, what are ND going to do, hire a lawyer with all the money they don't have, knowing that they'd be subject to scrutiny as part of any litigation?

I'd be very interested in finding out if "complete radio silence for pushing 3 months" is considered a breach of contract...


dande wrote:

It would be nice if Paizo had access to the kickstarter account to post updates like they do here.

I think a lot more people would see it then and feel like something is being done.
I can be easy to miss what Sara has posted on here.

They'd have to track down Ninja Scott, he seems to have walked out the door with the social media passwords when he got canned. 0 public communication since.


This thread's linked on the KS, so anybody checking in on KS can look at this


Rednal wrote:
@Sara: I can't speak for anyone else, but personally, I think you're succeeding in noting that Paizo is paying attention to this issue - and you're right, the slow pace of some business activities can be less than optimal for customers who feel like they've been left in the lurch... and I really appreciate your regular communications here. Too many companies just stay quiet because they feel like they have nothing to say, but in my experience, that just makes things worse. I know how important maintaining relationships with customers is for Paizo, and I've decided to believe you're doing what you can about this situation (even if it's not as much as you or the backers here would prefer - alas, what we want to do and what we can actually do aren't always the same thing).

The fact that she's responding at all raised my expectations too high, methinks.

Too used to Ninja Scott promising things then ghosting...even though he left with ND's social media passwords months ago


Did Sara pull a Ninja Scott?


Sara Marie wrote:
Just wanted to check in and let you know that with the holidays, I do not foresee being able to check in with our Licensing Manager or Execs for news until after the new year. I will follow up with them & this thread on Monday, January 8th, 2019.

Tuesday we should get answers. At least if Paizo doesn't pull a Ninja Scott on us

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