Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Advanced Class Guide (OGL)

I know that if I order a new ACG from paizo now, it will be a second printing.

Not quite.

2) We're still selling the first print run of the book. We'll let you know when that changes, but it hasn't changed yet.

That was before the errata document was posted, wasn't it? I thought the sign that a new printing was now on sale (through paizo) was when the document was available.

I don't understand if Slashing Grace has been extended to two-handed weapons, or not.

I know that if I order a new ACG from paizo now, it will be a second printing. Is there any way to know which printings the non-mint books are?

Apparently the second printing won't be out for a while.

Ah, I see. Thank you both.

I don't understand if Slashing Grace has been extended to two-handed weapons, or not.

Not.

In the Slashing Grace feat’s benefit, in the first sentence, after “kind of” add “light or”. After the final sentence, add “You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied.”

Ergo, corrected version is:

Slashing Grace (Combat)
You can stab your enemies with your sword or another slashing weapon.

Prerequisites: Dex 13, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus with chosen weapon.
Benefit: Choose one kind of light or one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler's or a duelist's precise strike) and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon's damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size. You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied.

That was before the errata document was posted, wasn't it?

No, it was posted after the errata.

I thought the sign that a new printing was now on sale (through paizo) was when the document was available.

As did I, but it would seem that this is a special case.

Erm, is it just me, or is the Errata misnamed? My freshly downloaded copy is numbered PZO1125, should it be PZO1129?

So the Steadfast Personality feat has 2 separate entries in the Errata document. One changes the table and limits the use of Charisma to mind affecting effects (page 5). One adds your Charisma modifier and any Wisdom penalty to your will save with no limitation (page 6).

That's some impressive editing.

Am I right to think if I order another copy it will be a 2nd printing with corrections?

Incorrect.

Incorrect.

Thank you.

magnuskn wrote:

Yeah, my train of thought went in the direction of "Vroom vroom, here comes the nerf bus".

Which in the case of Divine Protection is a good thing, mind you.

Debatable. Divine Protection was actually a pretty good option for just about everyone that could qualify for it, but not terribly broken except for in one case. The Oracle was the only real exception, in which case it basically sky-rocked to stupidly amazing.

The new form is now pretty "meh". Something I'd probably only take with an Oracle now, and feels like it completely misses the point of existing. Wish they would have just made it where Oracles couldn't take it.

I suspect Swashbucklers might also take a second look at this feat. Previously a Swashbuckler would have had to multiclass to take it, but now that class specifically gets a special benefit from it. A 1x/day ability to add your charisma bonus to a saving throw after you roll it is definitely more worthwhile than the ability to do so only before you attempt the roll.

Erm, is it just me, or is the Errata misnamed? My freshly downloaded copy is numbered PZO1125, should it be PZO1129?

+1

I renamed mine so that it would show up at the right place in an alphabetical listing.

When will the PDF be updated with the Errata?

When will the PDF be updated with the Errata?

Probably at the time the second printing goes on the shelves.

blackbloodtroll wrote:

When will the PDF be updated with the Errata?

Probably at the time the second printing goes on the shelves.

Their is no good reason the PDF should not get up dated now. Delaying until the second printing when their is no reason for it. The laziness is beyond me. They did all the work to make a 9 page errata. But are going to delay possible months to release the corrected PDF. I hope not as the only reason I buy PDF. Is to take them to PFSP. So now not only do I need to have the PDF now I have to cross references the errata every time I look something up.

From my point of view their is no good reason for this. I view it as basic customer serves. I don't even view it as going above and beyond. When the errata/official fixes is a year later. This is to fix the mistakes they allowed to go to print.

calagnar, I can think of several possible reasons for the PDF to not be released until the second printing.

1) If they release the second printing PDF now and then make changes before the physical second printing they have to release an updated second printing PDF. That means there would be two second printing PDFs floating around which would be confusing for people.

2) You are assuming that the second printing is already created. The errata does not mean all the text fitting is completed already, it could just mean that they know what they want the new text to say.

3) Those people who want the physical copy may feel slighted that the PDF is published before the physical copy. IE: why would Paizo alienate one group (hardback purchasers) over PDF purchasers?

These are just possibilities, I am not a publisher so I don't know the industry specifics but there are probably very good reasons not to publish a PDF until the physical book is also published.

DM Sothal wrote:

blackbloodtroll wrote:

When will the PDF be updated with the Errata?

Probably at the time the second printing goes on the shelves.

Their is no good reason the PDF should not get up dated now. Delaying until the second printing when their is no reason for it. The laziness is beyond me. They did all the work to make a 9 page errata. But are going to delay possible months to release the corrected PDF. I hope not as the only reason I buy PDF. Is to take them to PFSP. So now not only do I need to have the PDF now I have to cross references the errata every time I look something up.

From my point of view their is no good reason for this. I view it as basic customer serves. I don't even view it as going above and beyond. When the errata/official fixes is a year later. This is to fix the mistakes they allowed to go to print.

The "good reason" is called GenCon. Getting the errata PDF laid out and edited before the deadline was almost impossible as it was; doing that and doing the same for the book PDF as well just wasn't going to happen.

calagnar, I can think of several possible reasons for the PDF to not be released until the second printing.

1) If they release the second printing PDF now and then make changes before the physical second printing they have to release an updated second printing PDF. That means there would be two second printing PDFs floating around which would be confusing for people.

2) You are assuming that the second printing is already created. The errata does not mean all the text fitting is completed already, it could just mean that they know what they want the new text to say.

3) Those people who want the physical copy may feel slighted that the PDF is published before the physical copy. IE: why would Paizo alienate one group (hardback purchasers) over PDF purchasers?

These are just possibilities, I am not a publisher so I don't know the industry specifics but there are probably very good reasons not to publish a PDF until the physical book is also published.

All excellent and certainly valid points!

@calagnar - trust me, the folks at Paizo are FAR from lazy! They are some of the hardest working people around.

There's plenty of reasons. A publisher has to judge what's best for thousands of different, conflicting agendas. We only have the one perspective.

For example, if they release it now, someone may buy the PDF, like it and then order the book based on that - only to discover it's different. I'm sure there's many other reasons.

slashing grace boosted then subsequently nerfed. oi

Actually, that makes sense. It always seemed intended to include light weapons and it was surprising that, after years of avoiding having ANY way to use Dex for damage bonus, they would first make it available as a mythic option (i.e. Mythic Weapon Finesse)... and then release a simple feat which did essentially the same thing for different weapons. The one weapon/one hand only restriction brings it more in line with the power level of other (non-Mythic) feats.

Though... I now foresee disputes over whether this feat can be used with a light shield or only a buckler.

Though... I now foresee disputes over whether this feat can be used with a light shield or only a buckler.

As far as the wording goes, clearly not. Which is really stupid, given how the iconic Swashbuckler uses a buckler (then again, Fencing Grace did not get nerfed...).

Bucklers do not occupy the hand, so are fine, unless something else changed since the errata. Its also worth noting that a Buckler works fine for Dervish Dance.

Its also worth noting that a Buckler works fine for Dervish Dance.

That's an awful lot of wiggling you're trying to fit through the word "carrying." I wouldn't expect that interpretation to fly at most tables.

christos gurd wrote:

slashing grace boosted then subsequently nerfed. oi

Actually, that makes sense. It always seemed intended to include light weapons and it was surprising that, after years of avoiding having ANY way to use Dex for damage bonus, they would first make it available as a mythic option (i.e. Mythic Weapon Finesse)... and then release a simple feat which did essentially the same thing for different weapons.

not essentially, it only applied to one weapon for a string of feats. Mythic finesse dies considerably more with less investment, Not unlike what mythic eldritch heritage.

Considering the fact you lose access to the buckler when you shoot a bow or wield a weapon 2-handed, I suspect that the buckler is considered to occupy your 'hand' slot even if it doesn't.

Keep in mind, the Designers of the game have decided that you have two 'metaphysical' hand slots in the game, and it is these two 'metaphysical' hand slots that prevent you from TWF witha 2-handed sword and armor spikes or natural attacks (like talons, or a bite).

Considering the fact you lose access to the buckler when you shoot a bow or wield a weapon 2-handed, I suspect that the buckler is considered to occupy your 'hand' slot even if it doesn't.

There is 'shield' slot separate from the hand slots. At that, there is also a 'wrists' slots... which would be closer to the buckler than the hands.

The text now says, that Slashing Grace does not apply "...any time another hand is otherwise occupied." A buckler isn't in your hand and does not prevent you from using that hand in any way. Some uses of the hand prevent you from using the >buckler<, seeing as how they are both attached to the same ARM, but the hand cannot be said to be "occupied" by the buckler in any way.

That being said, there isn't any logical reason why, for example, holding a tiny piece of paper in your offhand would prevent you from striking for extra damage with a weapon in the other hand... but the rules seem to say it would. Thus, the 'logic' behind this restriction seems to be purely game balance driven rather than serving some purpose in 'realism'. An argument could even be made that wearing a glove (the hand is literally 'occupied', by a glove), or a ring, on the off-hand would block this feat.

Rather than trying to parse the RAW I'd probably house rule it to, 'you can't use Slashing Grace if you are using the other hand to attack or cast a spell'.

An error that was missed in the errata:

Bonus Spells: At 7th level, an eldritch scion gains the bonus spell from his bloodrager bloodline that is normally gained at 10th level. He gains the next three bonus spells from his bloodline at 9th, 11th, and 13th levels, respectively. This ability replaces knowledge pool.

But

At 7th, 10th, 13th, and 16th levels, a bloodrager learns an additional spell derived from his bloodline. These spells are in addition to the number of spells given on the table above. These spells cannot be exchanged for different spells at higher levels.

Next three bonus spells doesn't make sense if they're starting off with the 2nd of four.

Assumedly the text should have been:
"Bonus Spells: At 7th level, an eldritch scion gains the bonus spell from his bloodrager bloodline that is normally gained at 7th level. He gains the next three bonus spells from his bloodline at 9th, 11th, and 13th levels, respectively. This ability replaces knowledge pool."

We have a handful of new ACG FAQs. Including this one.

Slashing Grace: In the 2nd printing errata, what exactly does it mean that “You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied?” Can I use a shield? What about a buckler? Can I use flurry of blows? Brawler’s flurry? Two-weapon fighting? Spell combat? Attack with natural weapons? What if I throw the weapon? What about swordmaster’s flair?

Slashing Grace does not allow most shields, but bucklers work because they don’t occupy the hand. Flurry of blows, brawler’s flurry, two-weapon fighting, and spell combat all don’t work with Slashing Grace. Attacking with natural weapons beyond the weapon you chose for Slashing Grace also does not work. Slashing Grace only works with melee attacks, not thrown attacks with a melee weapon. Swordmaster’s flair should have a sentence added to it that says “Carrying a swordmaster’s flair counts as having that hand free for the purpose of abilities that require a free hand, though you still can’t hold another object in that hand.”

h/t Jeff Merola

DM Beckett wrote:

Its also worth noting that a Buckler works fine for Dervish Dance.

That's an awful lot of wiggling you're trying to fit through the word "carrying." I wouldn't expect that interpretation to fly at most tables.

It was clarified a long time ago, but I wouldn't even know where to look.

Hmm, I wish the PDFs get updated with errata contents as soon as the staff can manage it...

Lucas Yew, the problem with that would be that even if they know what a change will be they still have to wait until ALL changes are decided upon and THEN they have to figure out the new text layout. It is not a simple process, it is the same process as editing a book because...it is a book. :)

Even if they know all the changes if it isn't time to go to print yet they have to wait until that happens. If another change occurs between the time they do the PDF and the print versions there would be confusion.

Imagine version 3 (random number) is only available in PDF because when it finally went to print they had a new version (4). At best you annoy the book users for purchasing an out of date book, at worst there is mass confusion in the rules.

Errata came out like several months ago but why aren't they updating the pdf file?

The PDF is not updated until there is a new print run incorporating all those same updates, edits etc. (for the reasons Gauss outlined above)

At best you annoy the book users for purchasing an out of date book, at worst there is mass confusion in the rules.

Kind of like the ACG from Day 1. . .

:P

The PDF version of this product is now updated to reflect the second printing.

SWEET!

The PDF version of this product is now updated to reflect the second printing.

Thanks, Chris. Does that mean that hardcopies shipped directly from Paizo are now second printing as well?

Chris Lambertz wrote:

The PDF version of this product is now updated to reflect the second printing.

Thanks, Chris. Does that mean that hardcopies shipped directly from Paizo are now second printing as well?

Yup. Orders made through paizo.com for this will be second printing.

I am really happy with the changes that the errata adds.
Before the errata Extra Panache did not stack???
Adding uses per day makes the Skirmisher Tricks work for the Hunter.
Probably happiest that the Shaman gets SNA I-IX, it has the right flavour.

Steve Geddes wrote:

Chris Lambertz wrote:

The PDF version of this product is now updated to reflect the second printing.

Thanks, Chris. Does that mean that hardcopies shipped directly from Paizo are now second printing as well?

Yup. Orders made through paizo.com for this will be second printing.

Awesome, thanks. :)

I have a store credit with Amazon and would like to use it to buy this book. Has anyone ordered from Amazon and received the 2nd printing?

It's entirely possible that this was covered in the 50 or so pages of comments here, but I didn't go through all of that.

So, my general question: I was wondering if there's a reason why the rogue doesn't gain access to the slayer talent list, like it does the ninja trick list? (Or like the slayer can access the rogue talent list.)

Does it say Second Printing right on the title page?

It does, yes. :-)

I just ordered Advanced Class Guide on the 20th of September from Paizo.com. Received my copy in the mail today.

The cover of it says Pathfinder Adventure Path, but inside it says it is the second printing from August 2015.

I thought the cover error was an error in the first printing. Have there been other reports of it occurring in the second printing as well, or should I be concerned that the copy I have is some kind of Frankenstein copy?

So I guess they are never going to finish that adventure path and give us the remaining 50 hybrid classes in parts 2-6, right? ;)

If I buy this PDF will it sync and work with Fantasy Grounds?

Will there be a another print run? Seems to be out of stock everywhere and it's a player book.