Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Advanced Class Guide (OGL)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Advanced Class Guide (OGL)
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A New Breed of Hero

Adventure like never before with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Advanced Class Guide! Explore new heights of heroism with 10 new base classes, each with 20 levels of amazing abilities. Incredible powers also await existing characters, with more than a hundred new archetypes and class options. Prepare characters for their most legendary adventure ever with massive selections of never-before-seen spells, magic items, and more!

The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Advanced Class Guide is a must-have companion volume to the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon more than 15 years of system development and an open playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into the new millennium.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Advanced Class Guide includes:

  • Ten new base classes—the magic-twisting arcanist, the ferocious bloodrager, the cunning investigator, the daring swashbuckler, the formidable warpriest, and others.
  • Variant class abilities and thematic archetypes for all 29 base classes, such as the counterfeit mage and the mutagenic mauler.
  • Nearly a hundred new feats for characters of all classes, including style feats, teamwork feats like Coordinated Shot, and more.
  • Hundreds of new spells and magic items, such as feast on fear and skullcrusher gauntlets.
  • An entire armory of amazing equipment, from vital new adventuring gear to deadly alchemical weapons.
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-671-3

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Last Updated - 7/22/2015

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A Great (if errata-filled) Book for Players

4/5

This book has gotten a lot of flack for two reasons: (1) A number of people were upset by the large amount of errata posted after the book came out. (2) A number of people were upset by the perceived power-creep that this book carried with it, especially in the archetype section.

Both of these are reasonable complaints that I largely agree with.

That said, this book also contains a cornucopia of player options that are great fun. A number of the classes it introduced are now mainstream: it’s hard to imagine playing the game without options like the Brawler, the Investigator, the Slayer, the Bloodrager, the Hunter, or the Warpriest. Or to play without archetypes like the Bolt Ace (Gunslinger), Mutation Warrior or Martial Master (Fighter).

Moreover, the book introduced a number of feats that improve on the available build options available to most players (Extra Hex! Slashing Grace!). Likewise, although the spells in this book seem to have flown under the radar, there are a lot of nice and interesting spells are introduced in this book (Glue Seal, Communal Align Weapon, Wall of Blindness/Deafness, Wall of Nausea, Anti-Incorporeal Shell, Adjustable Disguise, Adjustable Polymorph, Investigative Mind, etc).

Easily 5 stars worth of good material here. Given the unusually large amount of errata, I feel compelled to deduct a star. But all that said, it’s hard to imagine playing Pathfinder without this book -- after the Core Rulebook and Advanced Players Guide, it’s probably the best book for players to pick up.


Unbalanced, uninspired and rushed.

1/5

This book still sticks out as one of Paizo's biggest missteps. It was extremely rushed and it shows.

At least half of the new classes don't even need to exist as anything other than archetypes. Even among the ones that actually work, most feel very uninspired.

There are a few good things in it, but not really enough to justify buying it. It's not worth your money and it's best not to encourage sloppy work.

Hopefully Paizo learns from this and prioritizes quality over quantity and speed from now on.


A continuing disappointment

1/5

The ACG had problems. Many problems. And it continues to have problems.

From concept ("Let's make ten classes as complicated and broken as the magus, or more so!"), to out-of-whack game design, to simply poor editing, the ACG is a mess. The book's philosophy seems to be "create a new utterly unbalanced mechanic, and proliferate it as far as possible." The (quickly issued) errata pulled some of it a bit more into line, but it just doesn't come close to correcting it.

Even something as simple as alchemical items are way out there. Holy Weapon Balm costs 5gp more than holy water, and does 1400% more damage. And that doesn't even include increasing damage to incorporeal creatures.

Even two years after it was released, I continue to be impressed with the complete disregard for balance and sense in this book. If power creep had happened this much every year, we'd be looking at 9999 damage caps by now. The ACG stands out for its insanity.

Perhaps pulping it for the cover error would have been the better move.


The first real dud in my Pathfinder collection

1/5

I am extremely disappointed in this product, and glad I only purchased the PDF version. As other reviewers have pointed out, the new classes are poorly balanced when compared to the preexisting ones, and would be a better fit for a book like Unchained, much like Unearthed Arcana's gestalt characters.

There's far too many feats and toys dedicated to these new classes, which drastically lessens this book's universal appeal, and even though some contrivances are provided to make some of said feats accessible to other classes, it ends up painting the book's title as a misnomer - it isn't an "advanced class guide" any more than it is a guide mostly about ten new classes, that are "advanced" only in the sense that they're more powerful than the others.

It's my fault for not properly researching the book before buying it, so buyer beware if you're expecting to find a literal advanced class guide, as opposed to a lengthy introduction to ten new ones.


Overall disappointing

2/5

Okay, there's a lot here that's just terribly rushed and it shows, like the editing here is painful at points. The classes themselves range wildly in value, and there's a lot of examples of Paizo's classic retro nerfing of things to help make options here look better. This was an obvious rush to gencon book, and it shows. While not everything in it is bad, and there's some salvageable content, you could easily continue to play the game without this book and miss out on absolutely nohthing.


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Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Insain Dragoon wrote:
I probably almost said what you wanted, but edited my post just in case of a great thread purging. If you don't mind my asking can you either post or PM the contents of the bet?

Cheapy seems to be doing a lot of betting on the side. I wonder if this is a "New Hardcover Tradition" or something?


3 people marked this as a favorite.

It's a call for help.

Shadow Lodge

Ross Byers wrote:
Insain Dragoon wrote:

I don't see how any of that matters when the result is a sub par book by Paizo's own standards. Any person can put out an incomplete product and try to sell it as the best thing since sliced bread, but Paizo isn't any person. They are Paizo Publishing and the current leader in the market for TRPGs and every major hardcover they release should at least be internally consistent and not feel like 4-5 books smooshed together with gum and duct tape.

I couldn't do better, but then again I am not the leading RPG book publisher am I?

My assertion is that it isn't a 'sub par book'.

The problem with trying to assert that is that it is, in the end, an opinion.


Ross Byers wrote:
Insain Dragoon wrote:

I don't see how any of that matters when the result is a sub par book by Paizo's own standards. Any person can put out an incomplete product and try to sell it as the best thing since sliced bread, but Paizo isn't any person. They are Paizo Publishing and the current leader in the market for TRPGs and every major hardcover they release should at least be internally consistent and not feel like 4-5 books smooshed together with gum and duct tape.

I couldn't do better, but then again I am not the leading RPG book publisher am I?

My assertion is that it isn't a 'sub par book'. Every hardcover, back to the Core Rulebook has editing mistakes, development missteps, outright errors, and seams where the writing of multiple authors came together.

It's amazing that it comes out as well as it does, and that is why Paizo is the market leader.

You may assert all you want. I've given my review and opinion. You may continue to vehemently defend the company all you want, but as a fellow small fry you just come off as a Chihuahua trying to defend a Pitbull from another Chihuahua. Paizo doesn't need you to defend them, after all they are the leading RPG company.


Cheapy wrote:
It's a call for help.

What are the odds of the call being answered?


5 people marked this as a favorite.

*twitch*


Btw, Ross' name appears on Page 2 of the Advanced Class Guide. Seems somewhat relevant for the conversation.


I found an error in the Spell section (I'm still reading so hopefully I won't find more...I'm in "B" in the alphabet).

Barrow Haze is a Sorc/Wiz, Witch spell. The spell augments the range of witch hex abilities. Since Wizards or Sorcerers have no hexes, they will get no use from this spell. If one suggests that it will include the Sorc/Wiz spells, then it's DISTANTLY more powerful for them than they are for Witches. Nowhere in the description does it say it affects Witch (or Sorc/Wiz) spells.

This will need to be addressed as it is clearly erroneous. The spell description should not include Sorc/Wiz.


Conflict of interest I guess. That just means I shouldn't talk to him right?


Roelandt wrote:

I found an error in the Spell section (I'm still reading so hopefully I won't find more...I'm in "B" in the alphabet).

Barrow Haze is a Sorc/Wiz, Witch spell. The spell augments the range of witch hex abilities. Since Wizards or Sorcerers have no hexes, they will get no use from this spell. If one suggests that it will include the Sorc/Wiz spells, then it's DISTANTLY more powerful for them than they are for Witches. Nowhere in the description does it say it affects Witch (or Sorc/Wiz) spells.

This will need to be addressed as it is clearly erroneous. The spell description should not include Sorc/Wiz.

Fog cloud doesn't let you see through it, this does. Barrow haze has its uses and witches just happen to get an extra perk. Looks fine to me.


Roelandt wrote:

I found an error in the Spell section (I'm still reading so hopefully I won't find more...I'm in "B" in the alphabet).

Barrow Haze is a Sorc/Wiz, Witch spell. The spell augments the range of witch hex abilities. Since Wizards or Sorcerers have no hexes, they will get no use from this spell. If one suggests that it will include the Sorc/Wiz spells, then it's DISTANTLY more powerful for them than they are for Witches. Nowhere in the description does it say it affects Witch (or Sorc/Wiz) spells.

This will need to be addressed as it is clearly erroneous. The spell description should not include Sorc/Wiz.

My guess is that it is there in case there is ever an archetype for those classes that gets hexes. Also, another class might have the ability to learn some sorc/wizard spells (Magus) and have access to hexes. So I guess it is future proofing?


Necromancer wrote:
Roelandt wrote:

I found an error in the Spell section (I'm still reading so hopefully I won't find more...I'm in "B" in the alphabet).

Barrow Haze is a Sorc/Wiz, Witch spell. The spell augments the range of witch hex abilities. Since Wizards or Sorcerers have no hexes, they will get no use from this spell. If one suggests that it will include the Sorc/Wiz spells, then it's DISTANTLY more powerful for them than they are for Witches. Nowhere in the description does it say it affects Witch (or Sorc/Wiz) spells.

This will need to be addressed as it is clearly erroneous. The spell description should not include Sorc/Wiz.

Fog cloud doesn't let you see through it, this does. Barrow haze has its uses and witches just happen to get an extra perk. Looks fine to me.

You missed the point, Necro. Wiz/Sorcs don't have hexes, so why are they listed as able to cast this spell? That's an error.

Silver Crusade

Is this going to be added to the PRD?

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

7 people marked this as a favorite.
Insain Dragoon wrote:
Conflict of interest I guess. That just means I shouldn't talk to him right?

I'm not trying to protect my interest. Neither my livelihood nor happiness rely on Paizo.

But it does bother me when people I've worked with, who I know, who work very hard, who work long hours, trying to deliver the very best gaming content they can, accused of incompetence or malicious intent.

I don't think they are infallible. They can and do make mistakes. There are absolutely things in the ACG that I think should have been done differently.

The reason I'm fond of telling people to try to do better is because game design is hard, even before you have to deal with all the business hurdles like production budgets and schedules. Claiming that Paizo shouldn't make mistakes because they're the industry leader is like saying Michael Jordan shouldn't ever miss a free throw.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
angellus00 wrote:
Is this going to be added to the PRD?

Next month, I believe.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Roelandt wrote:


You missed the point, Necro. Wiz/Sorcs don't have hexes, so why are they listed as able to cast this spell? That's an error.

Screw the hex thing, the spell lets you plant a fog cloud that the caster can see through. Play an arcane trickster, drop a barrow haze, and begin sneak attacking. Neutralize a bunch of enemy archers, while still being able to nail them with your spells (or arrows, should you be an arcane archer).

Also, the spirit whisperer is a wizard archetype that gets hexes.


So which class archetype is everyone planning to use for their next character?


Roelandt wrote:
Necromancer wrote:
Roelandt wrote:

I found an error in the Spell section (I'm still reading so hopefully I won't find more...I'm in "B" in the alphabet).

Barrow Haze is a Sorc/Wiz, Witch spell. The spell augments the range of witch hex abilities. Since Wizards or Sorcerers have no hexes, they will get no use from this spell. If one suggests that it will include the Sorc/Wiz spells, then it's DISTANTLY more powerful for them than they are for Witches. Nowhere in the description does it say it affects Witch (or Sorc/Wiz) spells.

This will need to be addressed as it is clearly erroneous. The spell description should not include Sorc/Wiz.

Fog cloud doesn't let you see through it, this does. Barrow haze has its uses and witches just happen to get an extra perk. Looks fine to me.
You missed the point, Necro. Wiz/Sorcs don't have hexes, so why are they listed as able to cast this spell? That's an error.

Fog Cloud

School conjuration (creation); Level druid 2, magus 2, sorcerer/wizard 2, witch 2; Domain water 2, weather 2

Barrow Haze
School necromancy; Level sorcerer/wizard 3, witch 3

The Cloud's level two and designed only to obscure; the Haze is level three, does the same thing, and allows the caster to see inside the haze. The hex bit is just an added detail, other spells have similar effects.

Dark Archive

Tels wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
A thrust (which is what a piercing weapon represents) would require some strength behind it in order to, you know, pierce someone.

Dr. Bernard Knight is a medical examiner, and forensic pathologist who has done a number of tests on human cadavers through out his career. His tests show that, with a sharp knife, it takes between 1 pounds to 6 1/2 pounds of pressure to pierce the human flesh and inflict deadly wounds.

The spell Mage Hand lifts up to 5 lbs., which means, if it could be weaponized, Mage Hand has enough strength in it to potentially inflict a deadly wound on a human by piercing them.

An Unseen Servant has a strength score of 2 and can generate up to 20 pounds of force. So an Unseen Servant is more than strong enough to kill humans with a sharp knife, if it could make attack rolls.

Humans are very delicate creatures and we are surprisingly easy to damage or destroy.

[browncoat] You would know this if you remembered your Firefly![/browncoat]

What you are forgetting is that you don't need dex to damage to kill a human. You need it to pierce stoneskin, or kill a dragon, or damage a golem, or critically injure someone who has years of combat experience represented by all his class levels in one strike.

So I'm with Alex on this one - it makes way more sense for slashing weapons than the other two.

Scarab Sages

Insain Dragoon wrote:
So which class archetype is everyone planning to use for their next character?

A Bolt Ace gunslinger, most likely, although I also like the sacred fist warpriest, the Nature Fang druid, and the Underground Chemist rogue.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Please don't continue the DEX to Damage debate in this thread.


Imbicatus wrote:
Insain Dragoon wrote:
So which class archetype is everyone planning to use for their next character?
A Bolt Ace gunslinger, most likely, although I also like the sacred fist warpriest, the Nature Fang druid, and the Underground Chemist rogue.

I almost like Bolt Ace, but it needs Signature Deed before it can actually function IMO. Until level 11 it's just a worse Slayer/Fighter/Ranger.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Psyren wrote:
Tels wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
A thrust (which is what a piercing weapon represents) would require some strength behind it in order to, you know, pierce someone.

Dr. Bernard Knight is a medical examiner, and forensic pathologist who has done a number of tests on human cadavers through out his career. His tests show that, with a sharp knife, it takes between 1 pounds to 6 1/2 pounds of pressure to pierce the human flesh and inflict deadly wounds.

The spell Mage Hand lifts up to 5 lbs., which means, if it could be weaponized, Mage Hand has enough strength in it to potentially inflict a deadly wound on a human by piercing them.

An Unseen Servant has a strength score of 2 and can generate up to 20 pounds of force. So an Unseen Servant is more than strong enough to kill humans with a sharp knife, if it could make attack rolls.

Humans are very delicate creatures and we are surprisingly easy to damage or destroy.

[browncoat] You would know this if you remembered your Firefly![/browncoat]

What you are forgetting is that you don't need dex to damage to kill a human. You need it to pierce stoneskin, or kill a dragon, or damage a golem, or critically injure someone who has years of combat experience represented by all his class levels in one strike.

So I'm with Alex on this one - it makes way more sense for slashing weapons than the other two.

Disbelieve if you wish, but Dr. Knight is correct. Pathfinder is a GAME written by nerds, not athletes, and its combat details have as little in common with real life combat as the East does with the West. As a Classical Rapier instructor, I can assure you, brawn has exactly jack to do with the penetration of a rapier. In fact, if you are utilizing brawn (assuming your opponent is a trained rapier fighter) you are an untrained thug who's doing it wrong, your weapon is going to break and/or you are going to die. Precision and technique are the exclusively requirements to do any combat application of a rapier, including piercing hard materials (which the weapon is not built for anyway...but don't tell D&D writers or rules lawyers that). Go to your nearest fencing school or local SCA group if you want more information.

Having said that, Pathfinder is a game. Just go by the rules. They don't make sense in real life combat but who says they have to?

Silver Crusade

I'm not gonna lie. Over all I am happy with this book. I think the feat section is weak and hope that it gets a major boost in Advanced Class Origins. My only other major complaint is that all of the casters in the book have decent or excellent spell lists except for the shaman. There are so many books out with spells and the shaman's spell selection is just pitifully small. If it doesn't get expanded by at least half in the splat book I'm gonna be very unmotivated to ever play one which is a shame since it was the class I was most excited about originally. *sad face*

Paizo Glitterati Robot

Just a quick note: let's migrate the talk about Paizo's production process elsewhere and keep this thread specifically on the Advanced Class Guide. We totally understand that new releases cause a hubbub, but let's keep the comments from becoming personal.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I wonder why slashing grace got the weapon focus feat tax.
Only skimmed the book so far, but a bit disapointed i could not find a feat that stops dervish dance (in the sense of making other weapons viable options instead of only scimitars).
Now we will see a flood of swashbuckler kitsune.
What is cool on one hand, because i really wanted to make one, have a boon for it (in PFS) and just waited for the final product.
On the other hand, a flood of Kitsune swashbuckerls that are all dervish dancing is kinda lame and unoriginal.
I did really hope for swashbucklers with whips or shortspears or good options like that.

Sovereign Court

I find myself a bit disappointed with the ACG, but only from the perspective that there's nothing really here for my existing characters (with a maybe on Pummeling Style for my PFS Barbarian/Monk).

However, with that said, there's a lot of good stuff in here for any future character builds that I may have. So I guess I'll see what I can use for future characters. :)

Scarab Sages

I still have quite a bit if the book to work through, but at a quick glance I like the majority of it. There were some disappointing omissions, like there not being an Extra Fervor feat when the other classes got one for their limited use abilities. I'm also not sure about giving two-handed builds yet another damage boost with Reckless Rage, but at least it's limited to classes/Archetypes that rage.


Roelandt wrote:

Disbelieve if you wish, but Dr. Knight is correct. Pathfinder is a GAME written by nerds, not athletes, and its combat details have as little in common with real life combat as the East does with the West. As a Classical Rapier instructor, I can assure you, brawn has exactly jack to do with the penetration of a rapier. In fact, if you are utilizing brawn (assuming your opponent is a trained rapier fighter) you are an untrained thug who's doing it wrong, your weapon is going to break and/or you are going to die. Precision and technique are the exclusively requirements to do any combat application of a...

Really real world comparisons to any D&D based system don't work.

It's pretty abstract.

However in this case I'd point out that str isn't entirely about bulk musculature and the ability to move quickly and with precision can be partly put down to strength rather than dex.


Not just a flood of Swashbuckler Kitsune but Swashbuckler Catfolk as well:)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
ACG p153 wrote:

Pack Flanking (Teamwork)

You and your companion creature are adept at fighting together against foes.
Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise, ability to acquire an animal companion.
Benefit: When you and your companion creature have this feat, your companion creature is adjacent to you or sharing your square, and you both threaten the same opponent, you are considered to be flanking that opponent, regardless of your actual positioning.
Normal: You must be positioned opposite an ally to flank an opponent.

Is it the intent that Druids and Rangers are unable to use this feat?

It appears there is no way for an Animal Companion to qualify for this feat and thus only classes that grant teamwork feats to allies (like Cavaliers) or do not need an ally to have a teamwork feat (like Inquisitors) can make use of it.


Is there language around the "companion creature" section that pertains to teamwork feats, maybe?

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

While I wait next week for my book, how does the final Hunter hold up (just generally)?


DeciusNero wrote:
While I wait next week for my book, how does the final Hunter hold up (just generally)?

Currently some theorycraft says great, some theorycraft says bad.

Nobody has actually posted playtesting results, so your milage may very.

I think it's bad, but I really want it to be good, so I hope someone comes up with something cool in game.

Grand Lodge

... anxiously waiting for my subscription to be fixed so I can see it!

Edit: Yay ... saved by HeroLab ... I can check that out for a bit until I get my download.


The Hunter looks a lot better than it did before. It's no longer a waste of space, if nothing else.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

A couple of things,

1. If the skald uses horns why aren't wind instruments under his skills and versatile performance features?

2 Lute of The Battle Ready: they heard our prayers! :) though may I ask why they are giving a time duration when they could (should) be useful at will.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Rynjin wrote:
The Hunter looks a lot better than it did before. It's no longer a waste of space, if nothing else.

Is it a little more separated from it's parent classes? Anything particular?


zergtitan wrote:

A couple of things,

1. If the skald uses horns why aren't wind instruments under his skills and versatile performance features?

2 Lute of The Battle Ready: they heard our prayers! :) though may I ask why they are giving a time duration when they could (should) be useful at will.

His class skills have only specific performs. At least that's my guess.


Rynjin wrote:
The Hunter looks a lot better than it did before. It's no longer a waste of space, if nothing else.

You didn’t seem over enthusiastic in the Hunter Preview thread (although you did say that it remains to be seen how the Hunter turned out).

What changed your mind?

I’m not trying to be snark or anything. I’m just interested in your thoughts on the class.

BTW, what are your Favorite AGC classes?

Contributor

We played with the warpriest and the skald tonight.

The warpriest was awesome, but as my PCs prepared their long-term plans, my skald player noticed something peculiar. Versatile Performance stops mattering after the second iteration.

Because the skald has a smaller number of performances to choose from and all of those performances overlap with one another on at least one skill, is is impossible to avoid overlapping skills by the fourth iteration, which takes a lot of the luster out of this 17th level ability.


I have to say, Paizo's clearly been listening to people complaining that too many female characters are wearing skimpy/impractical outfits... by giving some of the male archetype illustrations really skimpy/impractical outfits. The Wild Child brawler, the Mutation Warrior fighter (slightly), the Feral Hunter, and the Primal Companion hunter are all dressed this way.

Also, can the Divine Hunter be errata'd to include the Entropic and Resolute templates?

Scarab Sages

As a fan of the Swashbuckler flavor, I'm excited about Slashing Grace and the fact that it can remove the need for a Dawnflower Dervish dip. Now a lvl 1 Swashbuckler can get Dex to damage, which is just what I was waiting for.

What I find excessively weird is this "one-handed slashing weapon" condition. We already have Dervish Dance for that! How can it be that the most iconic Swashbuckler weapon, the rapier, still doesn't have a way of getting Dex to damage early on? If there's only one weapon capable of Dex to damage, it would have to be the rapier. This was Paizo's best chance to break the game's hate-on for piercing weapons, but alas...

Also, I take it that "one-handed" excludes light weapons, since inclusive texts usually explicitly say "one-handed or light weapons". WTH? Why not include stilettos, kukris, etc...? Again, an opportunity to boost an otherwise underused class of weapons wasted.

Scarab Sages

NoncompliAut wrote:
I have to say, Paizo's clearly been listening to people complaining that too many female characters are wearing skimpy/impractical outfits... by giving some of the male archetype illustrations really skimpy/impractical outfits. The Wild Child brawler, the Mutation Warrior fighter (slightly), the Feral Hunter, and the Primal Companion hunter are all dressed this way.

Agreed. Good times!


Zark wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
The Hunter looks a lot better than it did before. It's no longer a waste of space, if nothing else.

You didn’t seem over enthusiastic in the Hunter Preview thread (although you did say that it remains to be seen how the Hunter turned out).

What changed your mind?

I’m not trying to be snark or anything. I’m just interested in your thoughts on the class.

BTW, what are your Favorite AGC classes?

A few minor changes to how some abilities work makes it just unique enough that it can hold its own, and it's not worthless mechanically either.

I'd be hard pressed to say I LIKED the class, but I would consider playing one now, which is more than I can say for the non-Sacred Fist Warpriest.

One of the features I actually really do like is that you can teach the AC Skirmisher tricks in place of the standard trained animal tricks like what you find under the Handle Animal skill.

I mean, there's not a ton that are at all GOOD, but I like the idea of my AC being able to pantomime speech as if affected by Tongues for 10 minutes at will.

TBH I think this book is worthwhile for Pummeling Style/Charge ALONE.

'Scuse me while I Flurry Pounce everywhere.

inb4 it's nerfed and I burn down Paizo headquarters in a fit of rage.


The only nerfs I see incoming for Pummeling Style is the crit part and restricting it to unarmed strikes.


Catharsis wrote:

As a fan of the Swashbuckler flavor, I'm excited about Slashing Grace and the fact that it can remove the need for a Dawnflower Dervish dip. Now a lvl 1 Swashbuckler can get Dex to damage, which is just what I was waiting for.

What I find excessively weird is this "one-handed slashing weapon" condition. We already have Dervish Dance for that! How can it be that the most iconic Swashbuckler weapon, the rapier, still doesn't have a way of getting Dex to damage early on? If there's only one weapon capable of Dex to damage, it would have to be the rapier. This was Paizo's best chance to break the game's hate-on for piercing weapons, but alas...

Also, I take it that "one-handed" excludes light weapons, since inclusive texts usually explicitly say "one-handed or light weapons". WTH? Why not include stilettos, kukris, etc...? Again, an opportunity to boost an otherwise underused class of weapons wasted.

IIRC, Jason said that Slashing Grace was created to address a different issue and the issue you point out was an unintended consequence. They realized it had happened too late to fix it in a manner they liked, but they have a fix in the works in one of the books that is still in process.

I'm sure some of the more attentive forum-goers can get you a link to the post.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

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AinvarG wrote:
Catharsis wrote:

As a fan of the Swashbuckler flavor, I'm excited about Slashing Grace and the fact that it can remove the need for a Dawnflower Dervish dip. Now a lvl 1 Swashbuckler can get Dex to damage, which is just what I was waiting for.

What I find excessively weird is this "one-handed slashing weapon" condition. We already have Dervish Dance for that! How can it be that the most iconic Swashbuckler weapon, the rapier, still doesn't have a way of getting Dex to damage early on? If there's only one weapon capable of Dex to damage, it would have to be the rapier. This was Paizo's best chance to break the game's hate-on for piercing weapons, but alas...

Also, I take it that "one-handed" excludes light weapons, since inclusive texts usually explicitly say "one-handed or light weapons". WTH? Why not include stilettos, kukris, etc...? Again, an opportunity to boost an otherwise underused class of weapons wasted.

IIRC, Jason said that Slashing Grace was created to address a different issue and the issue you point out was an unintended consequence. They realized it had happened too late to fix it in a manner they liked, but they have a fix in the works in one of the books that is still in process.

I'm sure some of the more attentive forum-goers can get you a link to the post.

A Link to the Past--er, Post


I will try Swashbuckler for a new campaign, but I am terrified by the HORRIBLE Saving Throws. I have read something about a feat that can help with Will Saves. What feat is it? I Can't find it.

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