Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Advanced Class Guide (OGL)

-Shaman stuff-

Awesome! So long as they thought about the stabilize thing, I feel better. Wis-based hexes are what I was after.

Ooh! Got that debuffing set, good. I was hoping for more stuff that was unique, like Shapeshift, but the access to a single Witch hex is nice. Slumber or Flight will be popular, I'm sure. Secret seems pretty nice once at later levels once you've picked over the hex list a bit, and Fetish is a great way to take the best crafting feat on an off-level.

I really hope Witch gets a Shaman hex option!

A note to the folks in this thread,

There are a lot of questions flying around, demands for answers, and just general curiosity. There are a few issues in this book we are going to be addressing in the coming days (/weeks with Gencon being next week and all), so I just wanted to give everyone a heads up and ask for your patience.

Feel free to get excited, feel free to ask questions, thats all good. Just don't get upset if you don't get an answer right away. Most people don't even have the book yet and we are neck deep in con prep and getting a book out the door.

And please refrain from posting entire sections verbatim until everyone has access to the book.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

I have a very important question that needs to be answered right now guys...

Tels,

I am going to discontinue, based on what Jason Bulmahn posted.

I can't take back what I said, but my words did get somewhat hijacked by other posters. The rapier is an interesting weapon, however when I casually chose my words I wasn't thinking of it. I was thinking of the spear, to be honest.

There's also the spiked gauntlet, punching dagger, and the light pick.. and so on. All piercing weapons.

I'm not discounting your concern.. just bear this in mind.

And here it is... :)

Every year some folks get our books way before everyone else. While I can't stop you from posting spoilers, I do ask that you keep it light. We've had problems in the past with folks posting entire sections verbatim. Not that I am seeing that here, but please keep it light.

Thanks and I hope you are enjoying the book.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

Will do, and I am enjoying the book very much indeed. I have at least a dozen new character ideas spinning in my head already!

what are the Oracle and Witch Archetypes?

Many of the new archetypes for old classes involve using class mechanics introduced in the ACG.

The Oracle gains three new archetypes: Psychic Searcher (kind of a psychic or medium, crossover to Investigator), Spirit Guide (crossover to Shaman), and Warsighted (Crossover to brawler).

The Witch gains two new archetypes: Hex Channeler (Life/Death Witch, gains Channel Energy) and Mountain Witch (Crossover to Shaman).

What are the new spells?

Way, way, WAY too big question. There's literally 40 pages of new spells.

What does it say on Page 95?!!?!?!

A hunter typically partners with an animal companion and takes on aspects of beasts to pursue her quarry. Strange - the rest of the page is blank. ;)

A note to the folks in this thread,

There are a lot of questions flying around, demands for answers, and just general curiosity. There are a few issues in this book we are going to be addressing in the coming days (/weeks with Gencon being next week and all), so I just wanted to give everyone a heads up and ask for your patience.

Feel free to get excited, feel free to ask questions, thats all good. Just don't get upset if you don't get an answer right away. Most people don't even have the book yet and we are neck deep in con prep and getting a book out the door.

And please refrain from posting entire sections verbatim until everyone has access to the book.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

Good luck, Jason-and-the-Design-Team-and-Editor-Team-and-Developer-Teams-and-Module-Ov erlord-and-Publisher-and-Warehouse-Crew-and-Paizo-in-General-and-President- Business!

Jim Groves wrote:

Dennis Baker wrote:

Dervish Dancer and the Agile weapon property remain the only ways I'm aware of to get Dex to damage.

Magnskn,

As for piercing weapons not getting a Dex bonus, that makes no sense from a flavor standpoint. You jab someone with a piercing weapon with all your strength. Unlike a slashing weapon, there's nothing particularly dexterous about them. Not any more so than any other weapon.

One of the biggest problems, is that you can now get Dex to Damage with a longsword, but not with a rapier the most iconic fencing weapon in history!

One of my best friends has been fencing for 15 years since he was on the highschool fencing team and became captain. I have watched several fencing instruction videos (on his insistence because I was getting duels wrong in game and it bugged him) and read up on fencing. Every source will tell you that proper fencing is all about dexterity.

Speed and control is important in fencing. You need to be accurate in your strike, but graceful and quick. If you use your brute strength to stab someone with a rapier, you're going to see that rapier miss a lot.

It boggles my mind that the rapier doesn't get a Dex to Damage option, but a battleaxe does.

It is also a big funky in that you don't get Dex to Attack rolls with the weapon, unless it's also a finesseable weapon. So you've got Dex to damage with your Longsword! Cool! ... Can't hit s!~! though because your Strength is 10.

They basically just reversed Weapon Finesse. Instead of Dex to attack and Str to damage, we now have Str to attack and Dex to damage. As anyone who has number crunched before will tell you, you can have all the damage you want in the world, but that damage is meaningless if you can't hit the guy.

You can add agile to a rapier and not a longsword is why I think they did it. Although an argument can be made that the Feat is available much earlier than the ability to get an effective +2 weapon is.

Also all this talk about slashing weapons not being iconic Swashbuckler weapons irks me because when I think of a Swashbuckler the first thing that comes to mind is a Pirate with a Cutlass which does benefit as a slashing weapon.

Hrrm, there is a Cavalier Order of the Beast that gives you Hunter stuff... But Inner Sea Combat already had Order of the Beast that was for Rovagug followers... Troubling.

Hrrm, there is a Cavalier Order of the Beast that gives you Hunter stuff... But Inner Sea Combat already had Order of the Beast that was for Rovagug followers... Troubling.

Especially troubling when you have a Sarenrae ACG Order of the Beast Cavalier who the Rovagug Order of the Beast Cavalier thinks worships Rovagug.

I'm curious on the swashbuckler archetypes if someone minds sharing their names.

Gotta say the Hex Channeler witch has me really excited. It sounds awesome.

The Witch gains two new archetypes: Hex Channeler (Life/Death Witch, gains Channel Energy)

Please tell me this archetype is compatible with Hedge Witch.

I was going to save this for an upcoming Iconic Design, but I think it might help clarify why Dex-to-Damage is on slashing weapons only.

Zorro, arguably the most iconic "swashbuckler-type" characters in modern fantasy, has a feat chain that probably looks like this:
— Swashbuckler's Finesse (class feature), Weapon Focus: Rapier (1st Level), Weapon Versatility (Rapier) (Human)
— Slashing Grace (3rd Level)

When I think of Zorro doing crazy bouts of finesse with his rapier, he's always doing it with quick slashes, not thrusts. A thrust (which is what a piercing weapon represents) would require some strength behind it in order to, you know, pierce someone. Same with bludgeoning weapons; those require some muscle in order to hurt someone.

But a slashing weapon? Yeah, I could see you doing more damage to someone with a slashing weapon by being quicker and more agile. While it might not be the most optimized feat chain in the world, I think it makes a lot of sense and Weapon Versatility (Undead Slayer's Handbook) provides a fairly solid workaround for most weapons.

Kudaku wrote:

The Witch gains two new archetypes: Hex Channeler (Life/Death Witch, gains Channel Energy)

Please tell me this archetype is compatible with Hedge Witch.

… now all we need is two domains and a more divine-heavy spell list.

Kudaku wrote:

The Witch gains two new archetypes: Hex Channeler (Life/Death Witch, gains Channel Energy)

Please tell me this archetype is compatible with Hedge Witch.

It is indeed compatible with the Hedge Witch, but I should note that you need to invest hex slots to keep the Channel scaling. You could probably make a decent healing arcane caster by combining Hedge Witch and Hex Channeler, but you'll most likely give up most of your hexes in order to do so.

I'm curious on the swashbuckler archetypes if someone minds sharing their names.

Swashbucklers get quite a few archetypes. I'll add a little description for each one, but it's past 2 AM here and I'm once again skimming, so I might misrepresent something due to sheer tiredness:

Daring Infiltrator (sneaky swashbuckler), flying blade (throwing dagger/starknife swashbuckler), Inspired Blade (smart-ass and ridiculously focused on rapiers-swashbuckler), Mouser (described earlier), Musketeer (focuses on rapiers and one/two-handed firearms), Mysterious Avenger (Can't believe I didn't realize this until I read Alexander's post - it gains whip proficiency and a class feature called "secret identity". This is literally Zorro), and Picaroon (emphasis on TWFing firearms and rapiers).

Dylos wrote:

Kudaku wrote:

The Witch gains two new archetypes: Hex Channeler (Life/Death Witch, gains Channel Energy)

Please tell me this archetype is compatible with Hedge Witch.

… now all we need is two domains and a more divine-heavy spell list.

Consider multiclassing into the Razmirian Priest PrC, it gets domains.

QuidEst wrote:

Dylos wrote:

Kudaku wrote:

The Witch gains two new archetypes: Hex Channeler (Life/Death Witch, gains Channel Energy)

Please tell me this archetype is compatible with Hedge Witch.

… now all we need is two domains and a more divine-heavy spell list.

Consider multiclassing into the Razmirian Priest PrC, it gets domains.

Unnecessarily convoluted Witch build, or Cleric with a house cat? You decide!

Dylos wrote:

Kudaku wrote:

The Witch gains two new archetypes: Hex Channeler (Life/Death Witch, gains Channel Energy)

Please tell me this archetype is compatible with Hedge Witch.

It is indeed compatible with the Hedge Witch, but I should note that you need to invest hex slots to keep the Channel scaling. You could probably make a decent healing arcane caster by combining Hedge Witch and Hex Channeler, but you'll most likely give up most of your hexes in order to do so.

I'm perfectly fine with that

Whoa…

Just realized we're probably getting wizard and sorcerer archetypes out of this. Those aren't all that common. Did we get a Sorc archetype based on Bloodrager?

Man, archetypes are a really exciting part of this. I already love the sound of several of them!

Really pumped for Monk fixes through that style chain, though. I'm looking forward to dashing about the battlefield flurry-kicking people while playing a flute.

Awesome work, Paizo! Fourteenth can't come soon enough.

Last set of reveals for the night, I really need to crash (so I can read in bed! Yay!).

The Sorcerer gets two new archetypes:

The amazingly named Eldritch Scrapper focuses on mixing the Brawler's talent for mayhem with natural attacks.
The Mongrel Mage (not making this up, I swear) is a sorcerer that has a weaker mix of different bloodlines instead of a single powerful bloodline.

The Wizard gets three new archetypes:

The Exploiter Wizard gets in on the arcanist racket, gaining an arcane reservoir and arcanist exploits. I expect this to be a popular Wizard archetype.
The Spell Sage eschews the traditional focus on schools and instead studies specific spells and the spellcasting techniques of other classes, which allows him to tap into their spell lists (at a hefty action economy cost) a few times a day.
The Spirit Whisperer Wizard mixes witch and shaman elements - he gains a spellbook familiar like a witch, and a spirit link.

How did the final versions of the Warpriest and Bloodrager turn out?

Mind blown at Divine Protection feat.

Also worth noting that any vanilla barbarian gets access to tasty rage powers that emulate bloodrager bloodlines if you had a particular bloodline that was tempting you. So they can has nice things, too.

Lots of good things in here for older classes, to be honest.

Definitely a must-buy book for the year, as I'm sure Paizo intended.

A thrust (which is what a piercing weapon represents) would require some strength behind it in order to, you know, pierce someone.

Dr. Bernard Knight is a medical examiner, and forensic pathologist who has done a number of tests on human cadavers through out his career. His tests show that, with a sharp knife, it takes between 1 pounds to 6 1/2 pounds of pressure to pierce the human flesh and inflict deadly wounds.

The spell Mage Hand lifts up to 5 lbs., which means, if it could be weaponized, Mage Hand has enough strength in it to potentially inflict a deadly wound on a human by piercing them.

An Unseen Servant has a strength score of 2 and can generate up to 20 pounds of force. So an Unseen Servant is more than strong enough to kill humans with a sharp knife, if it could make attack rolls.

Humans are very delicate creatures and we are surprisingly easy to damage or destroy.

[browncoat] You would know this if you remembered your Firefly![/browncoat]

Tels,

I am going to discontinue, based on what Jason Bulmahn posted.

I can't take back what I said, but my words did get somewhat hijacked by other posters. The rapier is an interesting weapon, however when I casually chose my words I wasn't thinking of it. I was thinking of the spear, to be honest.

There's also the spiked gauntlet, punching dagger, and the light pick.. and so on. All piercing weapons.

I'm not discounting your concern.. just bear this in mind.

I think the clear solution here is to add a new, additional, Feat with only Weapon Finesse as a prerequisite that does the 'add Dex to damage' thing for rapiers only. That'd make it lower prerequisite than Slashing Grace or Dervish Dance...but then it does less, since they do things other than add Dex to damage.

The forthcoming Advanced Class Origins book seems like a good place for this, assuming that's not completely written yet...

Mind blown at Divine Protection feat.

Yeah, this one had me puzzled. Barring RP reasons I can't imagine any oracle players NOT picking up this feat.

wakedown wrote:

Mind blown at Divine Protection feat.

Yeah, this one had me puzzled. Barring RP reasons I can't imagine any oracle players NOT picking up this feat.

WHY AREN'T YOU IN BED YET!?!?!

Go to bed! So you can wake up and post more teasers!

Many of the swashbuckler archetypes are "rapier only" too. I haven't had time to study them in detail, but I imagine there's a clean way for what people want that just merits some more investigation.

I just need to take that feat that gives me the inspiration mechanic as a plug-in for any other class to perform said investigation!

This book literally contains all kinds of nifty new ways for classes to get access to goodies that were normally only available in other classes via dips.

This book will take months for people to devour properly. No joke.

[begin salesman speech]
Yes, you too can have divine grace without those pesky paladin levels to weigh you down!

Seriously curious what divine protection is now...

Many of the swashbuckler archetypes are "rapier only" too. I haven't had time to study them in detail, but I imagine there's a clean way for what people want that just merits some more investigation.

I just need to take that feat that gives me the inspiration mechanic as a plug-in for any other class to perform said investigation!

This book literally contains all kinds of nifty new ways for classes to get access to goodies that were normally only available in other classes via dips.

This book will take months for people to devour properly. No joke.

[begin salesman speech]
Yes, you too can have divine grace without those pesky paladin levels to weigh you down!

So... in order for people to get dex to damage with their rapier they have to dip the Swashbuckler class? Kind of defeats the purpose of a book that was designed to remove the need for people to have to dip a class to make a concept work...

Kudaku wrote:

wakedown wrote:

Mind blown at Divine Protection feat.

Yeah, this one had me puzzled. Barring RP reasons I can't imagine any oracle players NOT picking up this feat.

WHY AREN'T YOU IN BED YET!?!?!

Go to bed! So you can wake up and post more teasers!

There's entirely too much awesome for me to sleep! >__<

So... in order for people to get dex to damage with their rapier is to dip the Swashbuckler class? Kind of defeats the purpose of a book that was designed to remove the need for people to have to dip a class to make a concept work...

No, no - swashbucklers can't get dexterity to damage with rapiers, since that's a piercing weapon. Only one-handed slashing weapons qualify, like longswords, battleaxes, the sibat, the double chicken saber, and bizarrely the Klar.

At the moment I'm finding it more than a little puzzling, but I assume that either there's a good reason for it, or we're missing something.

Seriously curious what divine protection is now...

Not PFS legal I hope.

Well, for one thing, it's Slashing Grace, not Stabbing Grace. :)

The Spirit Whisperer Wizard mixes witch and shaman elements - he gains a spellbook familiar like a witch, and a spirit link.

That there just might be the Warlock I have been waiting for....can't wait to see it :)

Can I get more details on it ?

in the voice of J. K. Simmons

It looks like we won't be able to copy paste entire sections of the ACG...in English. Well, it just so happens that I've forseen this complication--I am going to translate every pixel of the Advanced Class Guide into ancient Egyptian and written entirely in ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics! Nooooooowwwwwwwww, I know what you're thinking, "there's no alt-codes for hieroglyphs!" What'd you want to do, stop before you've even started? I know there's no alt-codes and I've decided to draw--by hand--the entire translation. This may take a while, but I'm not discouraged! Gumption--that's what an endeavor like this takes: pure, raw, barely-contained, red-white-and-blue, all-bases-are-loaded-bottom-of-the-ninth, final quarter, white-knuckle, grits-and-gravy gumption!

That said, there's one little snag that's going to set us back a bit further. I don't know a damn thing about the ancient Egyptian language. Never had the time. Well, I say you can teach and old dog new tricks. I am going to learn every phrase, letter, and punctuation utterance of ancient Egyptian! That's right and when I finish that, we'll move on to the hieroglyphs! Delays? I call it polish! Might even learn some ancient Greek, too. Remove the impurities, hammer out the dents, and rinse off the roof!

Addendum--we're looking at an estimated November 2017 completion date. And that's just the ballpark; I think we'll be ready paste as early as July 2017! Hell, I may launch a kickstarter--get a couple of interns and really get the ball rolling! My God, the future is bright!

[/J. K. Simmons voice]

Alexander Augunas wrote:

A thrust (which is what a piercing weapon represents) would require some strength behind it in order to, you know, pierce someone.

Dr. Bernard Knight is a medical examiner, and forensic pathologist who has done a number of tests on human cadavers through out his career. His tests show that, with a sharp knife, it takes between 1 pounds to 6 1/2 pounds of pressure to pierce the human flesh and inflict deadly wounds.

The spell Mage Hand lifts up to 5 lbs., which means, if it could be weaponized, Mage Hand has enough strength in it to potentially inflict a deadly wound on a human by piercing them.

An Unseen Servant has a strength score of 2 and can generate up to 20 pounds of force. So an Unseen Servant is more than strong enough to kill humans with a sharp knife, if it could make attack rolls.

Humans are very delicate creatures and we are surprisingly easy to damage or destroy.

[browncoat] You would know this if you remembered your Firefly![/browncoat]

Sounds more like an application of Intelligence (knowing where to puncture) rather than Dexterity.

Also, I've never seen Firefly. I spend all of what would normally be my TV time writing. :(

pippo pappi wrote:

any shaman info pls :)

- d8HD

- full caster
- INT+4 skill gain; Craft, Diplomacy, Fly, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (nature), Knowledge (planes), Knowledge (religion), Profession, Ride, Spellcraft, and Survival
- simple weapons, light armor
- WIS for prepared casting with a few spontaneous options, prepares spells as witch; orisons
- spirit animal acts as a familiar with some extra perks
- chooses a Spirit (think limited oracle mystery with enhancements to spirit animal)
- gains hexes similar to witch, with variations

A solid class, I like it.

So Shaman lost medium armor? I wanted to build one as a frontliner. That hurts.

Necromancer wrote:

pippo pappi wrote:

any shaman info pls :)

- d8HD

- full caster
- INT+4 skill gain; Craft, Diplomacy, Fly, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (nature), Knowledge (planes), Knowledge (religion), Profession, Ride, Spellcraft, and Survival
- simple weapons, light armor
- WIS for prepared casting with a few spontaneous options, prepares spells as witch; orisons
- spirit animal acts as a familiar with some extra perks
- chooses a Spirit (think limited oracle mystery with enhancements to spirit animal)
- gains hexes similar to witch, with variations

A solid class, I like it.

So Shaman lost medium armor? I wanted to build one as a frontliner. That hurts.

They're divine casters. You could probably just spend a feat on a better armor proficiency. Or suffer a check penalty on skills you might not be using.

JBurz wrote:

Necromancer wrote:

pippo pappi wrote:

any shaman info pls :)

- d8HD

- full caster
- INT+4 skill gain; Craft, Diplomacy, Fly, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (nature), Knowledge (planes), Knowledge (religion), Profession, Ride, Spellcraft, and Survival
- simple weapons, light armor
- WIS for prepared casting with a few spontaneous options, prepares spells as witch; orisons
- spirit animal acts as a familiar with some extra perks
- chooses a Spirit (think limited oracle mystery with enhancements to spirit animal)
- gains hexes similar to witch, with variations

A solid class, I like it.

So Shaman lost medium armor? I wanted to build one as a frontliner. That hurts.

They're divine casters. You could probably just spend a feat on a better armor proficiency. Or suffer a check penalty on skills you might not be using.

I was going to spend the feat, trust me. It's just that, before the change, it was going to net me Heavy Armor. ;)

[begin salesman speech]

Yes, you too can have divine grace without those pesky paladin levels to weigh you down!

If Swashbuckler can take this, then it solves a whole lot of problems right there… I presume you need divine casting, though? Otherwise, heck yes my Sorcerer is going to be rocking Fort saves like a boss.

Of course, we always have Irrepressible for those of us who don't care for Wisdom scores.

Eldritch Scrapper: You mean what every Dragon Disciple will be taking? Of course.

Mongrel Mage: Hmmmm. This seems like it might go nicely with Dragon Disciple too, actually. Get your Draconic bloodline plus casting off of Int or Wis, maybe? I'm intrigued… Crossblooded was always too steep of a price for me, but mixing Aberrant and Rakshasa for a super-trickster bloodline would be pretty sweet.

Exploiter Wizard: Heck yes I want to be able to cast any spell from my spellbook. Sold!

Spell Sage: Cool, but I can't say I ever played Wizard and thought, "Gee, my spell list is too small."

Spirit Sage: Man, I would love this if it didn't mean having my familiar die would cost me a small fortune. Might still play it just for an even cooler familiar, though!

Light Armor Shaman (which I missed): Aww man… on the other hand, I'm playing a Witch with light armor. I should be grateful!

I just got my email 2 minutes ago. :D

Give it time.

Edit: OK, so... Pummeling Style basically fixes some of the issues with Monks. It's essentially Clustered Shot for Flurry attacks, but better. Any one critical threat during it can make the whole thing a critical hit, if confirmed.

And then there's Pummeling Charge. So Monks basically have access to Pounce now, though it all has to be directed against one target.

This.... is beautiful.

That said, there's one little snag that's going to set us back a bit further. I don't know a damn thing about the ancient Egyptian language.

Just put a rank in Linguistics and call yourself golden.

Tels wrote:

Alexander Augunas wrote:

A thrust (which is what a piercing weapon represents) would require some strength behind it in order to, you know, pierce someone.

Dr. Bernard Knight is a medical examiner, and forensic pathologist who has done a number of tests on human cadavers through out his career. His tests show that, with a sharp knife, it takes between 1 pounds to 6 1/2 pounds of pressure to pierce the human flesh and inflict deadly wounds.

The spell Mage Hand lifts up to 5 lbs., which means, if it could be weaponized, Mage Hand has enough strength in it to potentially inflict a deadly wound on a human by piercing them.

An Unseen Servant has a strength score of 2 and can generate up to 20 pounds of force. So an Unseen Servant is more than strong enough to kill humans with a sharp knife, if it could make attack rolls.

Humans are very delicate creatures and we are surprisingly easy to damage or destroy.

[browncoat] You would know this if you remembered your Firefly![/browncoat]

Sounds more like an application of Intelligence (knowing where to puncture) rather than Dexterity.

Also, I've never seen Firefly. I spend all of what would normally be my TV time writing. :(

The point is, that a proper piercing weapons requires very little strength to actually stab someone with. At least, if you're not wearing armor anyway.

Even with a dull knife, take a 5 lbs. weight and put it on the pommel of the knife and you'll see it cut into someone. If you take a common steak knife, and a board, and you just drop the knife from about waist height, and you'll see it stick into the board fairly often. Now imagine if that was your neck, or chest, instead. Might not kill you, but it will pierce your skin.

The whole point of dexterity to damage is that you have to exploit weaknesses, like stabbing at the creases int he armor, or something like that. Where as someone with a high strength and a big sword can just smash their way through the armor and kill them regardless.

As for slashing with a rapier in swashbuckling films... that was done because thrusting doesn't look as cool.

In real life, rapiers are only sharpened on the tip of the blade. There is no edge elsewhere (my fencing friend owns an actual rapier from the Renaissance that he got as a wedding present). So the idea of 'slashing' with the rapier is foolhardy. In fact, if you manage to cut someone with a rapier, it was usually only done in amateur fights, or as an insult/taunt to the other fencer.

Think about it, take an actual needle and blow it up and you've, essentially, got a rapier. Only the tip of the needle as any edge, so you must scratch the tip across skin to cut with it. One wouldn't swing a needle in combat, because there is no edge, unless one were an amateur, or was so confident in their skills against the other combatant that they knew they could get away with it. It was basically taunting the person to say, "I'm so much better than I you, that I can goof off and still win."

Come on folks, more praise for the cool stuff. Egos are ready to be stroked.

glances at Dennis

Kvantum wrote:

I just got my email 2 minutes ago. :D

Give it time.

Edit: OK, so... Pummeling Style basically fixes some of the issues with Monks. It's essentially Clustered Shot for Flurry attacks, but better. Any one critical threat during it can make the whole thing a critical hit, if confirmed.

And then there's Pummeling Charge. So Monks basically have access to Pounce now, though it all has to be directed against one target.

This.... is beautiful.

I totally missed this! This is wicked cool. I wonder if it came about because my suggestion for a Clustered Shot mechanic for the Brawler was popular as a replacement instead of the Not-Ki Strike they got?

i dont know how to make my own fourm so i chose this one
my wife died..shes been gone since july2..i was her full time care givers for over 18 years..she had so many health problems those and her meds would fill six pages..she was a fighter and stronger then anyone ive ever met in my life

in her last days i already told james that she told me to tell that james guy i talk about thank you and i said why baby and she said because he made me so happy with his products..

you see my life did not like sc-fi or fantasy..books or movies. had no intrest in rpgs or comics ..but they made me happy and that made her happy..she was sick wheni got the emerald spire in the mail and i was so excited and she was excited because it made me happy...she always wanted to make me happy
i miss her so much..i think i may have to go to grief conselilng....what really hurt me last night..was coming on here like a always do...you see i havent played a rpg in over 20 years but i love reading campaign guides, and rule books and such...well my job was tied to her i worked for the state so suddenly im on unemplyment....i came on there site and there the advanced class guide, the iron gods ap, the people of the stars, the pathfinder tech guide..i relized none of those books would go on my self with the rest of my collection..but worst i would never be able to get them and show them to her and see that look she would get when im so happy...that looks gone forever
in the end i miss her more then i ever thought i could miss anything

thanks comunnity for letting me ramble..i one word of advice is if you love someone tell them...tell them all the time..as the she slipped away at tacoma general the cancer finally taking her..i felt like was slowly turning into a pile of dust....still trying to figure out how to put myself back together
thank all of you for letting me ramble
robert

Perhaps it helps those lamenting rapier-use to point out that one of the swashbuckling archetypes allows the Intelligence modifier to be used for damage with rapiers only.

Or that said rapier's panache pool is the combined value of the Charisma and Intelligence modifiers?

Of course, we always have Irrepressible for those of us who don't care for Wisdom scores.

Take a gander at Steadfast Personality. Use that Charisma for fear effects and more now, too!

What feat really scares me? Reckless Rage. Because barbarians needed more damage. :)

Perhaps it helps those lamenting rapier-use to point out that one of the swashbuckling archetypes allows the Intelligence modifier to be used for damage with rapiers only.

Or that said rapier's panache pool is the combined value of the Charisma and Intelligence modifiers?

QuidEst wrote:

Of course, we always have Irrepressible for those of us who don't care for Wisdom scores.

Take a gander at Steadfast Personality. Use that Charisma for fear effects and more now, too!

What feat really scares me? Reckless Rage. Because barbarians needed more damage. :)

Barbarians always need more damage. That way when the boss mind controls them they wipe the party faster.

Are there any archetypes that give other classes the spellcasting method of the Arcanist?

Take a gander at Steadfast Personality. Use that Charisma for fear effects and more now, too!

Thank you for mentioning it, but where my character is concerned, vulnerability to fear effects is a feature, not a bug. X)

Last set of reveals for the night, I really need to crash (so I can read in bed! Yay!).

The Sorcerer gets two new archetypes:

The amazingly named Eldritch Scrapper focuses on mixing the Brawler's talent for mayhem with natural attacks.
The Mongrel Mage (not making this up, I swear) is a sorcerer that has a weaker mix of different bloodlines instead of a single powerful bloodline.

The Wizard gets three new archetypes:

The Exploiter Wizard gets in on the arcanist racket, gaining an arcane reservoir and arcanist exploits. I expect this to be a popular Wizard archetype.
The Spell Sage eschews the traditional focus on schools and instead studies specific spells and the spellcasting techniques of other classes, which allows him to tap into their spell lists (at a hefty action economy cost) a few times a day.
The Spirit Whisperer Wizard mixes witch and shaman elements - he gains a spellbook familiar like a witch, and a spirit link.

So the Wizard can play with the Arcanist's stuff but not the Sorcerer? So lame. There goes the chance to play the type of Sorc I've wanted to play since I first read about the class in 3.0. <sigh>

Being able to use your innate connection to magic to bend the rules of magic? Nope. Exploits would be considered knowledge and the Sorc is the dumb brute of magic. But hey here's an archetype to punch people because that will go great with your 1/2 BAB you dumb brute Sorc.

/rant

Sorry. Thank you for the information Kudaku its great of you.

Aside from the new archetypes, is there anything to improve rogues?