Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Advanced Class Guide (OGL)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Advanced Class Guide (OGL)
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A New Breed of Hero

Adventure like never before with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Advanced Class Guide! Explore new heights of heroism with 10 new base classes, each with 20 levels of amazing abilities. Incredible powers also await existing characters, with more than a hundred new archetypes and class options. Prepare characters for their most legendary adventure ever with massive selections of never-before-seen spells, magic items, and more!

The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Advanced Class Guide is a must-have companion volume to the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon more than 15 years of system development and an open playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into the new millennium.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Advanced Class Guide includes:

  • Ten new base classes—the magic-twisting arcanist, the ferocious bloodrager, the cunning investigator, the daring swashbuckler, the formidable warpriest, and others.
  • Variant class abilities and thematic archetypes for all 29 base classes, such as the counterfeit mage and the mutagenic mauler.
  • Nearly a hundred new feats for characters of all classes, including style feats, teamwork feats like Coordinated Shot, and more.
  • Hundreds of new spells and magic items, such as feast on fear and skullcrusher gauntlets.
  • An entire armory of amazing equipment, from vital new adventuring gear to deadly alchemical weapons.
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-671-3

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Last Updated - 7/22/2015

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Sloppy but accomplishes its goals

4/5

Pathfinder tries to reinforce the idea that the game should give you the tools to fully realize your character concepts. Pathfinder establishes classes as more of a starting point, rather than a straight-jacket, to build the character you want to play. In the past, it did accomplished this through archetypes, traits, and class features that work like rogue talents. The Advanced Class Guide now truly blurs the line between classes by introducing 10 new "hybrid" classes that combine the theme of two existing classes to create unique features in their own right.

The arcanist is a 9-level spellcaster that does not need to prepare multiples of the same spell to cast it and gains a talent pool to do a variety of neat things.

The bloodrager is a 4-level spellcasting full BAB martial that gain the benefits of a sorcerer-like bloodline while raging.

The brawler is a full BAB fighter/monk that can temporarily gain the benefit of a combat feat to adapt to any situation.

The hunter is a 6-level gish class that uses druid and ranger spells, and gains an animal companion that benefits from teamwork feats.

The investigator is a delightful skill monkey class that can use alchemist extracts, buff their skill checks and attacks with a resource pool, and make a special attack against a target they studied.

The shaman communes with a spirit and gains special abilities from it, which makes me think of the pactbinders from Pact Magic Unbound.

The skald is a barbarian that performs as he rages, giving benefits to his allies.

The slayer is an assassin class meant to act as a "patch" for the rogue, except it focuses mostly on combat and singling out a single target.

The swashbuckler, my most anticipated class, is an agile fighter that can perform stunts using a resource pool like a gunslinger's grit.

The warpriest is a 6-level divine gish class that have the ability to cast spells on themselves as a swift action and a weapon whose damage dice scales like a monk's unarmed strikes.

The book also introduces a some ambitious archetypes and feats that I applaud. These include a Charisma magus archetype, multiple multiclass archetypes, a gunslinger archetype that specializes in crossbows instead of firearms, feats that trigger off of Arcane Strike, multiple alternates to Stunning Fist that do other conditions, and a whole line of feats that add bonus effects to Vital Strike. I am, however, very sad there's few options for the magus, my favorite class. The bard and the barbarian got two hybrid classes. I would have loved to see a monk/magus, but alas.

However, the book really drops the ball with the archetypes and feats section. While I praise the ambition shown in some of these entries, most of them are really sloppy. Typos are all over the place. Some archetypes refer to abilities that don't exist. Some break existing class features and don't replace them.

The worst issue is that the class designers obviously wrote the class descriptions with the assumption certain feats would exist to support the class. The swashbuckler is the worst offender as the heavily advertised "Dexterity to damage" feature came as a poorly designed last minute addition tacked onto an existing feat. That class really got the short end of the stick, and I hope Paizo will aggressively remedy the problem.

The Class Design Guide at the end of the book left me wanting more. While I wasn't expecting something as thorough as the Race Builder in Advanced Race Guide, I wished this section flowed more like the spell creation guide in Ultimate Magic or perhaps a "behind the scenes" look at how the designers create classes and archetypes. Ultimate Magic's spell guide gave a lot of insight in how spells are designed, provided a list of benchmarks for each spell level, gave examples of both good and bad spells, explained damage metrics for arcane and divine spellcasting. By contrast, Advanced Class Guide merely shows the differences between classes of different BAB and that abilities are either "secondary" or "primary." I cannot even call it a "dev blog" as I've read way better blog articles on class design than this.

Why four stars with all these problems? While Paizo obviously rushed additional options to get the book out the door to GenCon, much care was taken into the creation of the 10 new classes. 9 out of the 10 classes look rather well done. This book brought us a new standard for full BAB classes, all of which look fun to play. It gave us the slayer, a "patch" for the rogue until Pathfinder Unchained. Despite each class being a hybrid, nearly all of them have unique game mechanics never seen in a Paizo product. Even if you turn your nose up at adding more bloat to the game, I still recommend the book if only to cannibalize the new classes to patch/houserule the classes in the Core Rulebook.

While sloppy and unpolished, Advanced Class Guide accomplished its goals: give us new classes that raise the bar in terms of gameplay and design.


Great Player Resource

5/5

I did not go into this book expecting to get a lot of use out of it myself. As a GM I have always found the base classes enough to flush out any NPC. Mostly because if I want them to be different I can tweak them on the fly. But for my players this book is a gold mine of both new ideas and fantasies coming true. My players have tried multi-classing to get some of the concepts in this book to work but often you end up just wasting the level because some things would not mesh well or not work together to be viable.

I feel as there are some minor flaws in the book but this is a first printing. I have yet to see a first printing come out perfect. So as far as I am concerned that does not lower the rating. I greatly enjoyed the art work. They managed to catch the feel of the different classes almost perfectly. Though the half-orc warpriest was a bit predictable. I do appreciate that they had archetypes for most of the different classes available. Personally I have always enjoyed the different archetypes because it allows for that simple customization to get a perfect fit for what you are imagining.

I think as a GM the section I will be referencing the most will be the equipment section. Partially because I do like to give out cool items to my players. But mostly because items give me a chance to really fill out my world in some of the more mundane scenes. I can describe what is on the shelves in a shop or how a particular item looks in the hand of an enemy.

Overall I think this book will see a lot of use at my table. Not by me but by my players. Which is a nice change of pace since most of the reference books do tend to be stacked over by me. Great job on the book!


3/5

Taken as a whole its merely an OK book, it really does not add much new. The 10 "new" classes are simply hybrids, kind of multiclass version of their two parent classes. It even lists the two parent classes. So it feels like a bit of a rehash as opposed to say the Advanced Players Guide which is still in my opinion the bar to all add-on books are held. The feats are rather lack luster, but again they are for the most part designed for the "new" classes, the added archetypes are weak at best, really feels like they were added to pad the 250 page count, not because they are cool or needed. The spells are as lack luster, though some neat ones, again we are really running out of how many versions of the same effect we can possibly make while maintaining balance. However much of the work here was needed as we have new class spell lists.

I personally think, if Paizo wants to keep the PF revenue flowing, it is time for a new setting or expand the current Golarion world, not more class/race rehashed rules and source material. One revenue stream that has never been done, is a set of printed sticky add-ons that we can buy and add to previous printing material bringing it up to date like the PDFs (keeping purchsed PDFs up to date? Stellar work Paizo!). So those of us with 1st printing CRBs can buy and stick these on to pages giving us an updated book. The add-ons would contain a subject and the revamped text (credit card is already in hand for this).

It is an ok book taken as a whole, as it supports itself well, but standing next to the APG, its lack luster and dull, offering rehashed ideas in a new dim light as opposed to dramatic new gameplay. I think, this is where Paizo needs to stop, get a clear and over-arching vision of the landscape, before we see the WotC train wreck we saw in 2nd edition with game play and balance thrown out the window in lieu of the next quick buck.

Paizo still shines bright as a publisher of quality products, they have managed to keep Pathfinder on the tracks unlike WotC did with 2nd edition. However they are in danger of heading that way.


Pretty amazing overall

4/5

Okay, so we're talking today about the book that is going to be adding almost as many classes to the game as the core rulebook. I'll touch briefly on each class before moving to my favorite part: the archetypes.

Arcanist (Hybrid Sorcerer/Wizard): this class combines the spell knowledge of a wizard with the flexibility of a sorcerer, along with a unique set of class features to fill that niche of "a character that studies the underlying rules of magic"/"a character who studies the theory of magic" you might not have known you were missing.

Bloodrager (Barbarian/Sorcerer): This full class can stand solid in the front line with the other full BAB classes, yet it gets some (VERY) minor spellcasting ability, and can even cast while raging. Like a sorcerer, they get a bloodline, from which they draw a myriad of interesting combat options (including one granting the ability to be large while raging!).

Brawler (Fighter/Monk): Brawlers are amazing. They combine the rapid combat style of a monk (including getting similar unarmed capabilities) with the ability to wear actual armor. They also get one of my favorite new abilities: the ability to gain combat feats for a limited period of time.

Hunter (Druid/Ranger): a character that specializes in using their animal companion as their ally for purposes of teamwork feats. They get the ability to ignore their pet for purposes of shooting into melee, and the get the ability to cast up to 6th level druid spells.

Investigator (Alchemist/Rogue): This character is much more skill focused than really either of their parent classes. They get an limited ability called inspiration which they can use to boost multiple skill checks, and some class features that let them use inspiration for free. This class will quite nicely fill the super genius/Sherlock holmes niche for your game.

Shaman (Oracle/Witch): I have personally seen several different versions of a shaman class from several different game systems. Each of them have been different, and each of them have had features I'm not as fond of. This shaman is a full spell caster that gets a class feature that is based around spirits, which are themes of powers similar to how oracle mysteries are set up (and in fact are named after them). Instead of the single mystery system that the oracle uses, however, shamans gain a wandering spirit that has staggered ability progression.

Skald (Barbarian/Bard): In all honesty the execution of this class is the one I enjoyed reading the least. I'm not saying that it's a bad class, I just think that it doesn't belong in every group (as you will see). They gain the ability to grant an effect similar to a rage to everyone in the party (including granting them rage powers at higher levels!) While this is pretty solid, your party composition will determine whether or not you want this character in your group (a group full of casters will definitely not want your raging song, to be sure).

Swashbuckler (Fighter/Gunslinger): This class ditches the focus on guns and keeps the grit mechanic and deeds that a gunslinger got, combined with the guy who puts the pointy end of the sword into the other guy. They're fairly agile, and they have some interesting defensive options (including taking a 5' step as an attack is coming at you to avoid it), and they will probably fill the "wandering duelist" niche just fine in your own games.

Warpriest (Cleric/Fighter): This class falls mechanically between a paladin and a cleric. they get six levels of spells, but they are focused into specific weapons that get more powerful the higher level they are. They get to swift cast spells a certain number of times per day (as long as those spells only target themselves), and they get blessings which are flavored off of cleric domains (sans the bonus spells). They will certainly fill the "battle cleric" niche in your party!

Next time, I'll talk about archetypes, as work calls now....

Part Two, Archetypes:
So there are archetypes for almost all of the existing classes (Barbarian gets missed, which makes them cry I'm sure), including the classes that are printed in the book. The variety of pretty awesome, and it makes it even easier to build niche characters (Want to play Captain America? they got that covered. Want to play Sherlock Holmes? they got that covered. Want to play the Monarch (from Venture Brothers)? They've got that covered as well.)

Part three: Feats, Spells, and Magic Items
Ironically, this for me was the weakest section. There wasn't very much that made me go YAY! There were the items that are keyed to the new classes, and the obligatory "extra" feats for the the new classes as well. None of the spells are bad that I saw, but none of them really jumped out at me as must-haves either.

Part Four: Designing new classes and archetypes
This part of the book I skimmed through, but it honestly felt like more of a blog post/dev diary type of deal that really could have been skipped. I'm sure it's full of good advice, but it probably would have been a better fit into the gamemastery guide, and the 11 pages there could have been used to give the poor barbarian some new hotness (not that they didn't get like 20 new rage powers, but still).

As far as the editing goes, there are some issues, but overall I still feel that this book is a worth addition to your gaming shelf if you play pathfinder (or even if you're still into 3.5 and want some class ideas!)


A fairly good book

4/5

Well, after raiding three Friendly Not-So-Local Game Stores I managed to get my hands on a physical copy and took a hard look at it. Overall, it's not a bad book.

As many have noted, there are editing problems galore -- starting with the front cover (I got one of the Adventure Path copies!) Another negative for me was some of the interior art that seemed just off -- a little puffy faced, squashed people in places, odd looks and angles -- nothing that made me scream and toss the book, but not what I have come to expect either.

As far as content goes, I was happy with what a got. Not everything works for me, but there is enough good to outweigh the bad. I've liked the idea of smooshing classes together since I saw it in the various Complete Guide 3PP back years ago, and possibly before that, and I approve of the idea here. There are archetypes and spells that classes outside of the book can use as well, with new magic and mundane items added as well.

The Designing Classes section wasn't really necessary in my opinion -- it felt like something that should have been in the Gamemastery Guide or included in another product, perhaps even expanded upon. It came across more as a behind the scenes DVD extra rather than a fleshed out method to design classes. For me, it was less useful than the Race Design information from the ARG and more just general guidelines from a designers blog post.

Another hit against the book is the omission of Racial Favored Class Options for races outside the Core book. Now, there are a LOT of races added from the ARG so we'd probably need another 12-20 pages to take care of them, but their absence undermines the importance of another hardback book. Perhaps we'll get them as a downloadable extra?

Problems aside, the book is a nice addition to the Pathfinder line. I do believe the rush to get it out for GenCon caused a few more issues than the company would like; that said, it is still a very useful tool for players and GMs to use, with caution (as with any supplement), and I am not sorry to have bought a physical copy of it.


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Well true, and that pillar could be the shaman;)


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Dragon78 wrote:
Considering there are ten new classes, I wish they had more then two of the new iconics on the cover.

The core book introduced 11 iconics and there were only 2 on its cover. Having two iconics on the covers of most of the hardcover books in the RPG line seems to be the standard. The Mythic book is the only one that really breaks this pattern with twice as many, but that seems to be relevant to the theme of mythic. There's also the ARG if you consider the Tengu to be iconic, but as far as I know he's not.

Webstore Gninja Minion

7 people marked this as a favorite.

Removed some posts—chill, people. This product isn't even released yet, and people play the game differently, so don't get too hung up on how somebody else plays a class.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Card Game, Companion, Lost Omens, Maps, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber
magnuskn wrote:
Mnemaxa wrote:
magnuskn wrote:

So, Bloodrager and Swashbuckler vs. an incorporeal undead dragon? I hope the Bloodrager is well equipped, because the Swashbuckler will do absolutely nothing against that type of monster. ^^

Female half-elf Swashbuckler is looking swell, though.

If it were just undead there wouldn't be a problem.
True enough. I'm not sure it was a good idea to negate precision damage for some enemy types. Every time the developers make those inherent nerfs in the name of "realism", it's the martial classes which suffer, while primary spellcasters shrug and still do their thing (and I am not only talking about incorporeal opponents).

There's also the problem that one of the most common rule mistakes I've encountered at the table is GMs who believe that immunity to precision damage is more widespread than is actually the case. So they'll think that a construct (such as a stone golem) can't be sneak-attacked.


Does anyone know how many pages this boom is gonna have? Im kinda hoping its gonna be core book size and looking forward to alot of reading lol


I am surprised it doesn't say in the product description.

Contributor

Redneckdevil wrote:
Does anyone know how many pages this boom is gonna have? Im kinda hoping its gonna be core book size and looking forward to alot of reading lol

Every RPG Hardcover has had 256 pages (except the Core Rulebook, naturally).

I'd be surprised if this book broke that trend.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Redneckdevil wrote:
Does anyone know how many pages this boom is gonna have? Im kinda hoping its gonna be core book size and looking forward to alot of reading lol

Every RPG Hardcover has had 256 pages (except the Core Rulebook, naturally).

I'd be surprised if this book broke that trend.

APG is 336 pages and bestiaries are 320 pages.


I am going to guess it could be similar to the APG in size, despite having more classes than that book had.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Gorbacz wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Redneckdevil wrote:
Does anyone know how many pages this boom is gonna have? Im kinda hoping its gonna be core book size and looking forward to alot of reading lol

Every RPG Hardcover has had 256 pages (except the Core Rulebook, naturally).

I'd be surprised if this book broke that trend.

APG is 336 pages and bestiaries are 320 pages.

Also the Ultimate Equipment book is 398 pages.

Contributor

6 people marked this as a favorite.
Gorbacz wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Every RPG Hardcover has had 256 pages (except the Core Rulebook, naturally).
APG is 336 pages and bestiaries are 320 pages.

Punch, punch, upper cut!

Ouch. Looks like I'm wrong.

John Kretzer wrote:
Also the Ultimate Equipment book is 398 pages.

KOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Adjule wrote:
I am going to guess it could be similar to the APG in size, despite having more classes than that book had.

Not to mention the archetypes, feats and spells for those and previous classes...


Mike Barth 258 wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
My fingers are crossed for ninja, samurai, and antipaladin material. I was pleased with the ninja tricks in Champions of Balance and I'm hopeful for more!
antipaladin has tons of material it needs in pathfinder.

With some creative tinkering there's no reason why you couldn't convert a bunch of the Paladins's goodies into nasties for the Antipaladin.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Redneckdevil wrote:
Does anyone know how many pages this boom is gonna have? Im kinda hoping its gonna be core book size and looking forward to alot of reading lol

Every RPG Hardcover has had 256 pages (except the Core Rulebook, naturally).

I'd be surprised if this book broke that trend.

Statistical analysis should be able to make or break that hypothesis if you dropped all the books and page totals into Excel and used regression.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Any word on whether or not there will be some new Oracle Curses included in this book?

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Kudaku wrote:
Swashbucklers and rogues are still kind of hosed against anyone with concealment (unless they pay the feat tax) as well as ooze and elementals.

This is what I was remembering earlier that there's some dispute on. Sneak Attack specifically states that it isn't useful against things with concealment. Precise Strike doesn't say anything of the kind. It says that:

ACG Playtest wrote:
Any creature that is immune to sneak attacks is immune to a precise strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits also protects a creature from a precise strike.

Being concealed is neither being 'a creature immune to sneak attack' nor is it something that protects from critical hits. Being incorporeal, an elemental, or an ooze definitely protects you, but concealment doesn't seem to.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I am also curious if there are any new Oracle curses?


Quote:
I am also curious if there are any new Oracle curses?

Glad to know I'm not alone in this. We seriously need some more of them.


Berselius wrote:
Quote:
I am also curious if there are any new Oracle curses?
Glad to know I'm not alone in this. We seriously need some more of them.

No...YOU ARE NOT ALONE :)

Dark Archive

5 people marked this as a favorite.
nighttree wrote:
Berselius wrote:
Quote:
I am also curious if there are any new Oracle curses?
Glad to know I'm not alone in this. We seriously need some more of them.
No...YOU ARE NOT ALONE :)

New Oracle Curse: Always Alone.

You can see people, hear them, even speak to them, but they never seem entirely real to you, and the ability to deeply connect and coordinate with others is a great mystery to you, leaving you struggling to form bonds of trust or friendship or love.

You can neither benefit from nor perform the Aid Other action, and do not receive or grant flanking benefits, nor can you take advantage of (or grant anyone else the effects of) any Teamwork feat. Unable (or unwilling) to fully trust others with your safety, you automatically stabilize when Dying and receive a +4 competence bonus to Heal checks on yourself.

At 5th level, you can use a variation of the Aid Other action on yourself only as a move equivalent action, granting yourself a +2 bonus to a single attack roll on this turn, a +2 bonus to Armor Class against a single foe, or a +2 bonus to a trained skill use. At 10th level, any spell you cast upon yourself with a range of Personal is Extended, without increasing the casting time or level of the spell (this does not stack with the Extend Spell metamagic feat). At 15th level, you automatically succeed on a roll to Aid Other on yourself, and you can perform this action as an immediate or swift action up to once per round.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Set wrote:
nighttree wrote:
Berselius wrote:
Quote:
I am also curious if there are any new Oracle curses?
Glad to know I'm not alone in this. We seriously need some more of them.
No...YOU ARE NOT ALONE :)

New Oracle Curse: Always Alone.

You can see people, hear them, even speak to them, but they never seem entirely real to you, and the ability to deeply connect and coordinate with others is a great mystery to you, leaving you struggling to form bonds of trust or friendship or love.

You can neither benefit from nor perform the Aid Other action, and do not receive or grant flanking benefits, nor can you take advantage of (or grant anyone else the effects of) any Teamwork feat. Unable (or unwilling) to fully trust others with your safety, you automatically stabilize when Dying and receive a +4 competence bonus to Heal checks on yourself.

At 5th level, you can use a variation of the Aid Other action on yourself only as a move equivalent action, granting yourself a +2 bonus to a single attack roll on this turn, a +2 bonus to Armor Class against a single foe, or a +2 bonus to a trained skill use. At 10th level, any spell you cast upon yourself with a range of Personal is Extended, without increasing the casting time or level of the spell (this does not stack with the Extend Spell metamagic feat). At 15th level, you automatically succeed on a roll to Aid Other on yourself, and you can perform this action as an immediate or swift action up to once per round.

One would think that such a curse would include something like "Whenever a spell you cast targets a limited number of creatures, each creature counts as two creatures. Whenever you are the subject of a spell that targets a limited number of creatures, you count as two creatures towards that limit."


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Kudaku wrote:
Swashbucklers and rogues are still kind of hosed against anyone with concealment (unless they pay the feat tax) as well as ooze and elementals.

This is what I was remembering earlier that there's some dispute on. Sneak Attack specifically states that it isn't useful against things with concealment. Precise Strike doesn't say anything of the kind. It says that:

ACG Playtest wrote:
Any creature that is immune to sneak attacks is immune to a precise strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits also protects a creature from a precise strike.
Being concealed is neither being 'a creature immune to sneak attack' nor is it something that protects from critical hits. Being incorporeal, an elemental, or an ooze definitely protects you, but concealment doesn't seem to.

Well, Precision Damage is kind of hard to define in general. The term is used in many different feats and class features (Precise Strike, Up Close and Deadly etc), but I don't think it's been really nailed down and defined in a single rules section.

However, if you read the Shadow Strike feat, the description leads me to believe that you can't normally apply precision damage to a target with concealment:

Shadow Strike wrote:
Benefit: You can deal precision damage, such as sneak attack damage, against targets with concealment (but not total concealment).

If you could normally apply precision damage to targets with concealment then I don't see they'd use the much more general "precision damage" and list Sneak Attack as an example instead of specifying that the feat only interacts with Sneak Attack.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yeah, that lends itself to the conclusion that Precision Damage does not apply to targets with Concealment. However, there have been enough badly worded feats that I wouldn't take it as completely conclusive.

Not to mention that it would add another class which is helpless to the deadly hazard of dim light and/or a light ground fog. Pretty pathetic for a front line class.


magnuskn wrote:

Yeah, that lends itself to the conclusion that Precision Damage does not apply to targets with Concealment. However, there have been enough badly worded feats that I wouldn't take it as completely conclusive.

Not to mention that it would add another class which is helpless to the deadly hazard of dim light and/or a light ground fog. Pretty pathetic for a front line class.

Agreed, I houseruled the concealment problem away a long time ago. The designers have stated that the "dim light in the alley? No sneak attack for you!" problem was unintended and in hindsight they would have worded it differently. That's why I bring it up actually, it would be hopefully be fairly easy to include phrasing in the Swashbuckler to avoid the issue, or even publish a clear definition of what works and doesn't work for Precision damage.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Well, I hope they did, because I am pretty sure that by now the book already is being printed. ^^

Then again, us suckers who buy the first printing have always been the ones which get stuck with stuff like the first versions of Antagonize or Terrible Remorse.


I can't wait to see the archetypes for the new classes. There's a lot of potential with them (especially the shaman) and I hope that it's utilized well.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

As awesome as the new classes are, I agree, I'm looking forward to the original class archetypes. Shaman-esque Witch? Yes please.


So Sherlock Holmes, Zorro, Tarzan, and Conan walk into the Grand Lodge...

In anticipation of the upcoming ACG, I'm seeing in my head the aforementioned fictional characters coming to life in Pathfinder, maybe even for Society play.

I think yes Sherlock Holmes would be an Investigator and Zorro would be a Swashbuckler.

But what would Tarzan and Conan be?


GM Darkblade wrote:
But what would Tarzan and Conan be?

Darn, dirty barbarians.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Wouldn't Conan be a barbarian/rogue?

Liberty's Edge

Conan's clearly a Slayer, maybe with a dip in Barbarian (mostly for Uncanny Dodge).

Tarzan could pretty readily be a Hunter.

On the Precision Damage thing: I said it was disputed/unclear, not that Swashbucklers could do damage to concealed targets for sure. And yeah, some official clarification on this point would definitely be nice.

Liberty's Edge

Ooh, I noticed new evidence. Read Studied Strike, it explicitly contains the concealment prohibition (like Sneak Attack does). Now read Studied Combat. It also includes precision damage, but not the wording in question. The two abilities are closely linked. So closely the difference pretty much has to be intentional.

That's pretty strong evidence that it's not an inherent feature of precision damage. It also makes the wording on Shadow Strike relevant (and thus make sense), since it would also apply to Studied Strike.


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Aaaaaaand someone has posted a review. Prescient chap.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
DungeonmasterCal wrote:

My players told me recently I buy too many books for us to use in our games, given how little we get together these days. "Feh!" I shouted. "Feh on your 'too many books'!"

Yeah, I'm buying this. I've waited too long for this book. It must be mine.

One of my players said the same thing to me. My response was "You can never have too many books, only too few bookshelves."

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Conan's clearly a Slayer, maybe with a dip in Barbarian (mostly for Uncanny Dodge).

Tarzan could pretty readily be a Hunter.

On the Precision Damage thing: I said it was disputed/unclear, not that Swashbucklers could do damage to concealed targets for sure. And yeah, some official clarification on this point would definitely be nice.

Also a thief and reaver. :D

“Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand, a thief, a reaver, a slayer, with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandaled feet.”


I wonder what a Barbarian/Paladin hybrid would be like...


Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
Aaaaaaand someone has posted a review. Prescient chap.

John Woo, no less. I love his movies.


Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
Aaaaaaand someone has posted a review. Prescient chap.

My Tarot, Runes, and pendulum all agree....I think he nailed it.

I will however do an astrological forecast based on the release date to confirm....I'm nothing if not thorough.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Cthulhudrew wrote:
Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
Aaaaaaand someone has posted a review. Prescient chap.
John Woo, no less. I love his movies.

Wonder if he liked the new spell, summon doves?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Deadmanwalking wrote:

Ooh, I noticed new evidence. Read Studied Strike, it explicitly contains the concealment prohibition (like Sneak Attack does). Now read Studied Combat. It also includes precision damage, but not the wording in question. The two abilities are closely linked. So closely the difference pretty much has to be intentional.

That's pretty strong evidence that it's not an inherent feature of precision damage. It also makes the wording on Shadow Strike relevant (and thus make sense), since it would also apply to Studied Strike.

Relevant to all precision damage being negated by concealment or to only certain types of it being negated by concealment?

Liberty's Edge

magnuskn wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:

Ooh, I noticed new evidence. Read Studied Strike, it explicitly contains the concealment prohibition (like Sneak Attack does). Now read Studied Combat. It also includes precision damage, but not the wording in question. The two abilities are closely linked. So closely the difference pretty much has to be intentional.

That's pretty strong evidence that it's not an inherent feature of precision damage. It also makes the wording on Shadow Strike relevant (and thus make sense), since it would also apply to Studied Strike.

Relevant to all precision damage being negated by concealment or to only certain types of it being negated by concealment?

The latter, IMO, since of two adjacent abilities only one has it. You'd think it would be either both or neither if it were universal.

However, this is slightly off-topic, and I made a thread to get this FAQ'd and discuss it, so I'd suggest continuing this over there.


I could have sworn I saw a PDF for this for sale on Friday (June 13), but I didn't get it since I'm notorious for changing characters in the middle of campaigns/adventures and I didn't want the temptation. Was I hallucinating or was a PDF actually for sale (possibly by mistake)?


I am hoping for some serious gunslinger and magus love in this book

Silver Crusade

Rando2805 wrote:
I could have sworn I saw a PDF for this for sale on Friday (June 13), but I didn't get it since I'm notorious for changing characters in the middle of campaigns/adventures and I didn't want the temptation. Was I hallucinating or was a PDF actually for sale (possibly by mistake)?

I also saw a link to purchase a pdf a few days ago. I thought it was weird but figured it was a poorly-labelled "preorder the pdf" link. Now that it's disappeared, I wonder if I missed my chance for an illicit sneak peek! :-D


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

I think the link you saw was for the playtest document?

Liberty's Edge

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God I just wanna sleep and wake up when this comes out.


Any chance we can get archetypes for these?


  • Bards with no spells but other social and buffing abilities
  • Cavaliers with no mounts or other pets that focus on teamwork and inspiration
  • Summoners who get more evolutions instead of spells

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