Disembarking the Starfinder Second Edition Playtest

I see nothing but positive changes.

And I was not prepared for Chk-Chk in those sunglasses.

Oh my God, it feels so wonderful to see so much playtest feedback be taken in! It feels really good to see the emphasis be on making things stronger and simpler.

I've struggled with low damage, Skittermander hand juggling, clumsy quantum fields, Barathu movement, and trying to buy and carry heavy armor. It feels great to see fixes for ALL of those!

I see nothing but positive changes.

And I was not prepared for Chk-Chk in those sunglasses.

For real! All three of them are total BAMFs in this art!

Why did I think there was going to be a separate space combat playtest? Did I misread something months ago? Anyway, looking forward the final! Thanks to everyone who helped work out the details!

I dig it. People in our discord dig it. Game is good.

Now to sit and try to patiently wait for the main release...

These are all great changes that should make the game feel a lot smoother and more aggressive, which is awesome. Don't forget to buff the damage output of certain creatures to match the new weapon baselines, too!

Anyway, all hail Drip-Chk, our new fashion overlord. The bisexual ombre certainly makes him look less Asmodean.

Why did I think there was going to be a separate space combat playtest? Did I misread something months ago? Anyway, looking forward the final! Thanks to everyone who helped work out the details!

We included some zero-gravity environments in our playtests.

Why did I think there was going to be a separate space combat playtest? Did I misread something months ago? Anyway, looking forward the final! Thanks to everyone who helped work out the details!

I don't know if this is the case with space combat, but I remember a comment back when Mythic rules dropped that for subsystems like that they tend to get a lot better data out of focused close playtests rather than the open playtests that do well for classes and such.

Alternatively, I'm wondering if the space combat rules might be coming later in what I assume is a tech themed book with Technomancer and Mechanic with the next playtest!

Ancestries

Good news for skittermanders who want to jump rope and wield a flamethrower at the same time: you are now going to be able to perform actions and use items with your other hands, but you can only wield items (such as shields and weapons) with your active hands

Multi-Armed ancestries have made a full recovery. Thaumaturges across the nation rejoice.

Traversal

One new element we'll be introducing is the traversal trait. This new trait mostly applies to player-facing rules that reference Stride. When it applies, traversal allows the use of alternative movement types (burrow, fly, and swim) to be used in place of land Speed, akin to how Sneak works. Expect to see this greatly impact some abilities used by the envoy and solarian (to name a few).

This is going to be so nice. Could you pretty please add something like that to haste?

Will an actual errata be added to the playtest so that the mechanic & technomancer playtest has these changes to be tested alongside? Or will we be exclusively waiting till release on this?

Id love to run Empires Devoured in the new year for a group with these updates and a mechanic + technomancer

(If it gets put up after i send this, yes i know where to find errata lol)

Good news for skittermanders who want to jump rope and wield a flamethrower at the same time: you are now going to be able to perform actions and use items with your other hands, but you can only wield items (such as shields and weapons) with your active hands.

So the definition of wielding something is in Player Core.

Wielding Items

Some abilities require you to wield an item, typically a weapon. You're wielding an item any time you're holding it in the number of hands needed to use it effectively. When wielding an item, you're not just carrying it around—you're ready to use it. Other abilities might require you to be wearing the item, to be holding it, or simply to have it.

I believe this means you can not use a comm unit (lists Hands 1) while wielding a shield and pistol in your other hands. I think it would allow for Grapple and Grab an Edge, but not a toolkit or Explorer’s cantine. In the case of toolkit, I am not sure if you could wear it and use it while you have a shield and pistol ready.

The rules change is a little better, but I feel the multi-hands are still over valued and this level of detail isn’t really needed in the rules. With these rules there are only a few times where the multiple arms are giving more than the swap action.

——

The rest of the changes sound good. I am glad they are reducing the price of weapons. Being able to have two to three weapons to choose from is common in science fiction and having to choose between accuracy and multiple weapons was problematic.

These changes look really good!
I have a couple questions from reading the comments. Do we know for sure that a Mechanic/Technomancer playtest is forthcoming? Is there news about that somewhere? I'd love to read about it if so. I hadn't heard anything hinting at that, but I easily could have missed it.
Also, is it just me, or is it a little weird that Galaxy Guide is dropping before Player Core?

Do we know for sure that a Mechanic/Technomancer playtest is forthcoming? Is there news about that somewhere?

Techno/mechanic thing was stated during gencon IIRC. Alot of news coverage about the playtest release mention them coming early 2025/january 2025, in playtest form. Someone probably has a more specific memory.

Also, is it just me, or is it a little weird that Galaxy Guide is dropping before Player Core?

Bit outside of standard practice, but I would bet the book was slated to be 1e originally and shifted to 2e when that decision was made, and it just worked to have it release as originally planned as primarily a lore book.

is it just me, or is it a little weird that Galaxy Guide is dropping before Player Core?

Considering the first hardcover book for SF2e already came out in April (The Gap,) I don't see anything strange about getting a second book before the Player Core. Also being a book with lots of setting lore in it, other than The GAP the Galixy Guide will be the one SF2e book that is most useful for people still playing SF1e who are interested in the setting update.

The Errata has not been updated to the FAQ page yet.

Overall, I'm happy with the direction.

I only have one concern in that I hope the weapon damage buffs aren't TOO big. (Still have interest in mixing systems, and would not like to see a situation where Analog versions of Pathfinder weapons are not TOO weak when you want a Starfinder character to be packing something a bit more traditional, or the odd Numerian weapon is not packing TOO much power. Having a much better action economy is something I'm fine with, as I greatly support increasing magazine capacity and reducing consumption, especially to something more typical of what Earth would do. but I'd prefer damage numbers not be so far ahead per Strike,

In short, damage numbers going up per round because of better action economy, yes please. Damage numbers going up per Strike because the new weapons are just better? Please no.

I see nothing but positive changes.

And I was not prepared for Chk-Chk in those sunglasses.

Like a Boss!

Seems like nothing but great changes!

What an incredible piece of artwork in this post.

these changes look great but I hope the multi-hand rules are very carefully considered if theyre as unrestricted as this blog might imply. Having the potential to wield a 2-handed weapon and keeping a hand free for maneuvers and items is extremely powerful. I didn't hate the old method of hand management and the errata letting you get minor utility benefits like being able to climb with those hands while the other ones are free. I def understand wanting to buff multiple arms to feel as cool and exciting as the power fantasy of having them but PF2e and by extension, SF2e are systems where theres so many assumptions around only having 2 hands and being balanced around that. Even just opening the other hands up to items and actions is still a lot even if they cant wield weapons or shields.

Aside from that though the rest sounds amazing and im excited to see the final version!!!

Considering the first hardcover book for SF2e already came out in April (The Gap,) I don't see anything strange about getting a second book before the Player Core. Also being a book with lots of setting lore in it, other than The GAP the Galixy Guide will be the one SF2e book that is most useful for people still playing SF1e who are interested in the setting update.

Point taken but uh... The gap was an April Fools prank... Wasn't it?

Driftbourne wrote:

Considering the first hardcover book for SF2e already came out in April (The Gap,) I don't see anything strange about getting a second book before the Player Core. Also being a book with lots of setting lore in it, other than The GAP the Galixy Guide will be the one SF2e book that is most useful for people still playing SF1e who are interested in the setting update.

Point taken but uh... The gap was an April Fools prank... Wasn't it?

I read it before it got wiped. It was really impressive how-

these changes look great but I hope the multi-hand rules are very carefully considered if theyre as unrestricted as this blog might imply. Having the potential to wield a 2-handed weapon and keeping a hand free for maneuvers and items is extremely powerful. I didn't hate the old method of hand management and the errata letting you get minor utility benefits like being able to climb with those hands while the other ones are free. I def understand wanting to buff multiple arms to feel as cool and exciting as the power fantasy of having them but PF2e and by extension, SF2e are systems where theres so many assumptions around only having 2 hands and being balanced around that. Even just opening the other hands up to items and actions is still a lot even if they cant wield weapons or shields.

Aside from that though the rest sounds amazing and im excited to see the final version!!!

In my play experience so far, multiple arms have been a complete nothing-burger. They do almost nothing the swap action doesn't, but they're treated like they're as valuable as much more useful abilities like darkvision, extra movement speed, or save bonuses. Letting you use them to climb rapidly loses usefullness too since flight is so readily available. They need to do something, and after several playtests, they've failed to do anything once in my experience.

The Errata has not been updated to the FAQ page yet.

I don't think there really is a new errata. This is just a last update to let us know where the game will be going in the time before release. The turnaround between now and the end of the playtest would be far too tight to get any really good data from a new errata.

What an incredible piece of artwork in this post.

The Starfinder 2e art team has absolutely been killing it.

moosher12 wrote:

The Errata has not been updated to the FAQ page yet.

I don't think there really is a new errata. This is just a last update to let us know where the game will be going in the time before release. The turnaround between now and the end of the playtest would be far too tight to get any really good data from a new errata.

Good point. Thank you for the explanation.

I wouldn't be surprised if they released of the basic QoL stuff landing when the Technomancer and Mechanic playtest drops so they can get more accurate feedback, but I wouldn't expect sweeping changes.

Driftbourne wrote:

Considering the first hardcover book for SF2e already came out in April (The Gap,) I don't see anything strange about getting a second book before the Player Core. Also being a book with lots of setting lore in it, other than The GAP the Galixy Guide will be the one SF2e book that is most useful for people still playing SF1e who are interested in the setting update.

Point taken but uh... The gap was an April Fools prank... Wasn't it?

It's still for sale, and I have one on my shelf how could it be a prank? The lore in it is 100% accurate too.

Also, the Galaxy Guide will be useful for people wanting to play PF2e classes in the Starfinder setting.

Loving everything I'm hearing. Thanks muchly, Starfriends. Still sad that I couldn't participate in the playtest, but I suppose there's still time to re-read the book and submit some feedback.

Really looking forward to seeing how guns and other equipment are buffed and rejiggered. I'd honestly be totally fine with SF equipment being above the power curve for a PF game. Also glad to hear operative is being reigned in a lil bit.

In my play experience so far, multiple arms have been a complete nothing-burger. They do almost nothing the swap action doesn't, but they're treated like they're as valuable as much more useful abilities like darkvision, extra movement speed, or save bonuses. Letting you use them to climb rapidly loses usefullness too since flight is so readily available. They need to do something, and after several playtests, they've failed to do anything once in my experience.

It's a start, but I think using anything in those extra hands is still a trap - it's more things to pick up after you drop them if you go unconscious than if you just used two hands and swap. This change rewards leaving the extra hands empty even more.

I was hoping for something like being able to change active hands once per turn as a free action. It'd let them use those other hands a little more often and provide some value to not just using Swap.

Squark wrote:

In my play experience so far, multiple arms have been a complete nothing-burger. They do almost nothing the swap action doesn't, but they're treated like they're as valuable as much more useful abilities like darkvision, extra movement speed, or save bonuses. Letting you use them to climb rapidly loses usefullness too since flight is so readily available. They need to do something, and after several playtests, they've failed to do anything once in my experience.

It's a start, but I think using anything in those extra hands is still a trap - it's more things to pick up after you drop them if you go unconscious than if you just used two hands and swap. This change rewards leaving the extra hands empty even more.

I was hoping for something like being able to change active hands once per turn as a free action. It'd let them use those other hands a little more often and provide some value to not just using Swap.

There's a lot of value to having free hands you can use, like having a weapon ready and being able to open a door at the same time, or climb, or hold on to something in Zero-G. I have several characters with 4 arms in SF1e and I've never once used all 4 hands to hold objects at one time. I take that back, one time our mission was to take someone shopping and I had all 4 hands full holding shopping bags.

I hope the new hand rules don't apply to just skittermanders, SF1e has lots of other multi-armed species that I hope to see in SF2e someday.

(does this mean I don't have to worry about updating my survey answers even if I complete empires devoured in time? x'D)

But yeah, I've gotten some feedback ideas even this late in december, but dunno if it helps much at this point anymore. Still super cool blog and its great to see feedback from earlier being taken in account

I would really appreciate if you could add in the traversal trait to the Pathfinder 2E too. It's just tedious to ask the GM every time if one can use their other speeds for a given action

I hope the new hand rules don't apply to just skittermanders, SF1e has lots of other multi-armed species that I hope to see in SF2e someday.

It would be very strange if it was a Skitter exclusive change since as early as this playtest we have Kasatha who are also four-armed and Barathu who can theoretically go way beyond. Multi-armed rules seem to exist on a system level though so that shouldn't be a worry. I hope.

Here's hoping body mods will be reworked too. Both the fact that the system used a separate limit from Investment even though it didn't need to, and the fact that this meant that characters that didn't want mods were leaving stupid amounts of power on the table with nothing to take instead.

Driftbourne wrote:

I hope the new hand rules don't apply to just skittermanders, SF1e has lots of other multi-armed species that I hope to see in SF2e someday.

It would be very strange if it was a Skitter exclusive change since as early as this playtest we have Kasatha who are also four-armed and Barathu who can theoretically go way beyond. Multi-armed rules seem to exist on a system level though so that shouldn't be a worry. I hope.

I agree, I also I'm also wondering if this will make it into PF2e, It would be odd for multi-armed characters to go back and forth having to play under different rules.

Here's hoping body mods will be reworked too. Both the fact that the system used a separate limit from Investment even though it didn't need to, and the fact that this meant that characters that didn't want mods were leaving stupid amounts of power on the table with nothing to take instead.

I agree, I think just using PF2es Investment system for both magic items and augmentations is a great way to balance the use of tech and magic, letting players mix the two how they like.

There's a lot of value to having free hands you can use, like having a weapon ready and being able to open a door at the same time, or climb, or hold on to something in Zero-G. I have several characters with 4 arms in SF1e and I've never once used all 4 hands to hold objects at one time. I take that back, one time our mission was to take someone shopping and I had all 4 hands full holding shopping bags.

Absolutely, there's some value in it. A little bit more than prehensile tails and the like.

I think that this current variant is specifically primarily useful if you keep at least one of the extra hands empty, but you still really shouldn't carry things in any of the other extra hands unless you want to spend multiple turns picking objects up off the ground if you get knocked out. (Maybe they should be able to pick up one extra item off the ground when performing an interact action to do so for each extra pair of arms?)

I hope the new hand rules don't apply to just skittermanders, SF1e has lots of other multi-armed species that I hope to see in SF2e someday.

I'm pretty confident that it's for all the extra limbed species. It would be very weird for Kasatha to behave differently.

A lot of very promising changes, personally I fear that the Envoy change is a distinct power increase but in our playtesting we often had an operative that made enemies off-guard so I can see why they went into this direction.

As I am still running playtests, it would be nice to get a couple of these changes spelled out as rules, so the transition to the final rules is less jarring.

Definitely on-board for GothBug.

Is Navasi working out or something?

She looks a lot more buff (and much better armored) in this picture than in previous designs.

Hmm, I wonder how much weapons will be buffed, hopefully it isn't too outlandish an increase that they dumpster the likes of the longbow for the same role (martial weapon and so forth), just to use that as a benchmark.

Definitely on-board for GothBug.

Is Navasi working out or something?

She looks a lot more buff (and much better armored) in this picture than in previous designs.

Most of the older iconics had their designs pivoted a little more into a 'veteran adventurers' aesthetic, and no doubt the slightly newer direction of the Envoy class as more directly martial has some influence here.

Hmm, I wonder how much weapons will be buffed, hopefully it isn't too outlandish an increase that they dumpster the likes of the longbow for the same role (martial weapon and so forth), just to use that as a benchmark.

Speaking of Longbows: One question remains! Will modern longbows have the Archaic trait or the Analogue Trait, because it will be hilarious if an Operator pulls out a longbow, and says, "This is a gun"

One thing I would wish to see is changing the names of the skills in Starfinder to be a little more sci fi sounding. Just a handful of skills changing their names would make it feel a little more sci fi, like changing Crafting to Engineer, Society to Culture, and Nature to Life Sciences (Not too sure about this last one since the Nature skill relates directly with the Primal Tradition).

It's finnicky.

I like the idea of Nature being changed to Life Science, as I think even the most traditional druids can still practice a little bit of science. But I have a hangup that when a new player sees Life Science, they'll probably at a glance expect it to encompass Medicine. Which can cause some friction in the learning process, though small. There is of course the option of combining the two skills, but that will throw another wrench toward adjudicating compatibility between Pathfinder and Starfinder. Ultimately, would be best if Life Science was a rename of Nature.

Physical Science though, I think can be made as a seperate new Recall Knowledge skill on par with Arcana, Nature/Life Science, Religion, and Occultism that can be used to identify technological items, and other scientific phenomena. It would have to be seperate, because its closest overhap is Crafting, but Crafting can do things that Physical Science can't.

In the same vein, I don't think renaming Crafting to Engineering is a good idea, because there are a lot of Crafting jobs that are not Engineering. Rather weird if your artistic worshipper of Zon-Shelyn is using Engineering to paint pictures.

Nonetheless, I still feel both Life Science and Physical Science are too broad to be Lore skills. But they definitely can work as standalone skills. Life Science can easily replace Nature, where Physical Science would become its own skill.

Society to Culture can work, but I feel Society maintains a very modern feel already. Both weigh about the same, and would just cause confusion if one was replaced with the other, as I don't think Society is dated enough a term to replace.

One thing I would wish to see is changing the names of the skills in Starfinder to be a little more sci fi sounding. Just a handful of skills changing their names would make it feel a little more sci fi, like changing Crafting to Engineer, Society to Culture, and Nature to Life Sciences (Not too sure about this last one since the Nature skill relates directly with the Primal Tradition).

I agree the skill names are one of the few things I don't like. There is a huge difference between recall knowledge between Nature and Life Science.

Nature: Recall Knowledge about fauna, flora, geography, weather, the environment, creatures of natural origin (like animals, beasts, fey, and plants), the First World, and the Elemental Planes.

Life Science: You can use Life Science to recall knowledge about bioengineering, biology, botany, ecology, genetics, xenobiology, zoology, and other fields of biological science.