Flaxseed Lodge (PFS1)

Game Master Redelia

I’ve gotten a response to emails, but only after about a week and each time I had already resolved it through the customer service forum or by phone.

I've gotten responses to emails -- but I'll agree that phone is faster. The number is easy to find. Just scroll down to the bottom of this page!

Hmm

I think it depends when and what you are asking for. The last email I sent (taking over a game for another GM) I got a response the same day, but sometimes it's taken weeks.

In my very short stint as a pbp GM last year I tried an alternate way of handling spoilers for my players. It was something like this

There's probably a more efficient way to word the first spoiler, Like "Secret 1=DC17; Secret 2=DC22."
I've always been puzzled that GMs don't do it that way, as it offers the best of both worlds.

So now I'm wondering, is this a thing the PbP community has considered and rejected for some reasons or is it just a new idea?

You can actually nest spoilers, you just can't name the nested spoilers.

I do something similar, like so:

Yes, I know that's the standard, GM Supervillain, but that gives the players the DCs up front and can lead to metagaming; even subconscious metagaming. What I posted seems more similar to what you would experience in a f2f game where you don't usually know the DCs.

Your trick seems nicer than mine, Grandmaster Toz. I was wondering what the secret sauce was to make nested spoilers work.

It breaks if you add names to the nested spoilers, which tripped me up for a long time.

I think for the pbp medium there are some trade-offs. Giving out DCs speeds play considerably.

I only recently learned how to make nested spoilers. You have to omit the '=' from the nested tiers.

Nice! I did not know about the nested spoilers. I've only ever tried with named spoilers, and didn't realized it worked if you don't name the interior ones.

I have learned something new today. Thank you.

I think for the pbp medium there are some trade-offs. Giving out DCs speeds play considerably.

I disagree.

Putting the DC somewhere in your post speeds play, yes. But there's nothing faster about showing the players the DC up front instead of putting it in a spoiler for them to see after they've made their check.

Just to go back to the Customer Service thing briefly, I had a one day turnaround on an email request to them last week. Both the help I'd requested and a reply email were within 24 hours, so whilst obviously not everyone's experience they really do respond fast with that method sometimes.

I’m not sure that there’s much material difference between your method and mine. Not saying that you’re wrong as such, just struggling to see how the play experience differs. In both cases, players make their roll and then open the spoilers that apply. I’m interested in players’ perspectives re the point about metagaming.

Sometimes seeing the DC, I will just Take 10 if I know it will succeed. A note on your policy for those instances might be warranted.

Richard, glad to hear it! I know that CS backlog tends to be worse after con season when they have had less time to work the queue.

Taking 10 is where it came up in one of my games recently.

But it could also lead to players spending boons, potions, scrolls, spells, class features, etc. So that they can beat a DC OR they may NOT spend any of those things (when they would f2f) because they already know they'll beat the DC.

I say all this as someone who has been playing php for about 4 years now, along with some occasional f2f. My only pbp GM experience was a few tables last year. So this is pretty much all player perspective. I'm just using my GM alias because it's a GM topic.

When playing I try to have an "in character" thought about whether I take-10 or not. For example:
Khellek, elderly and cautious scholar almost always takes ten for virtually everything. That is just how he is, meticulous.

Gunnz, who enjoys flying by the seat of her pants, only takes ten on areas that she is not too familiar with and that she thinks are important. Stuff that she "knows" she rolls and trusts in her skill to see her through.

Now not all my characters are like that, but I generally try to think about how they would approach a problem.

That does indeed happen. Hiding the DC’s behind a spoiler won’t prevent it in PbP though. I honestly don’t know how to prevent that as a GM unless you just don’t give the DC’s until after the rolls, which generally slows things down.

As a player I just simply establish whether or not that PC would take ten on a skill and then try to always do it that way for that character. Most of my PC’s roll all knowledge checks and only take ten for skills they are very confident on or if doing a dungeon crawl with an SOP setup.

Why does hiding the DCs behind a spoiler not prevent it? Do your players cheat and open spoilers before they're supposed to?

More seriously, I've experimented with putting things behind a spoiler with labeled DCs, and just calling for the check, and a number of other techniques. Having played around with this in a variety of different games, I finally settled on just having the labeled DCs for most things because it went faster and smoother. The only time I don't do this is when there's a serious surprise waiting, and the players are all super involved and posting quickly in a fast game.

So I one time actually asked all my players to just individually roll a perception check in a fast moving game rather than put details under a spoiler. They all missed the check -- which made for an interesting encounter because none of them had any idea what was coming.

Since I sort of change my technique depending on circumstance, I see no reason why GMs can't play around and settle on the technique that works best for them.

Hmm

Why does hiding the DCs behind a spoiler not prevent it? Do your players cheat and open spoilers before they're supposed to?

How would you know if they did?

They could open the spoiler, find out the DC then take 10, and add in all the stuff you pointed out or make the roll instead then open the nested spoilers. Or they could just open all spoilers and get all the information and pretend like they only know the results of the ones their character made.

For my part, I never take 10 for any of my characters and don't generally add any disposable modifiers because I generally forget the latter rule and hate buying and using one time equipment.

Personally it is still worth doing, primarily because it allows the players to play abilities correctly. Providing the DCs out in the open makes it impossible to use any 'after you roll but before the results are revealed' type abilities leagally, as you know what the results will be as soon as you see the roll, so either you add it in before the roll (i.e. lose all benefit of that line) or you use it after the fact and 'cheat.' Yes, short of never providing the DCs in the first place, there is no way to completely prevent that from happening, but keeping the DCs at least behind a spoiler allows people the chance to play it legally. And so many things in PBP rely on the honor system already.

On another note, it keeps the post nice and short for the people who don't have, want, or need to roll that knowledge skill, which is a plus!

When I'm playing, I much prefer it when the GM doesn't reveal the DC in advance, for all the reasons that have already been mentioned. If I know what the DC is before I make the roll, all of the strategic questions that make gameplay fun and uncertain are already known to me. Should I take 10 on that skill check? Should I use my reroll on that save? Should I skip Power Attack because the target has a high AC? Should I use one daily use of my four leaf clover on this check? Should I add Dweomer's Essence on this SR check? I mean, this is the reason we don't reveal all these target numbers in a face to face table, right? I don't find it particularly slows things down when I'm GM-ing to leave the DCs unknown to the players and I (hope) it heightens their sense of uncertainty, which I think the game needs to feel exciting and risky.

Something one of my GMs introduced me to was rolling knowledge checks in combat for the players and putting what each one “remembers” in their own spoiler. This lets several things happen:
- Keeps game moving briskly
- Lets me adapt results to particular characters (such as the wizard caring more about spell-like abilities and the fighter wanting to know about DR)

Now, this requires more up-front work from both sides of the GM screen. The players need to list what sorts of information they want (I prefer descending order of importance) as well as any non-standard things such as Inspiration or Lore Master. The GM needs to have all that information readily at hand at the start of each combat and then roll more dice and write out even longer posts. So far, it’s been my favorite system as both GM and player.

I’ve also used this method with “reactive” saving throws (such as vs an opponent’s spell) so the rest of the party doesn’t have to wait to find out if their friend is wounded or not (as such factors can affect decisions). This use is slightly trickier - especially when it comes to folio/trait/shirt/whatever rerolls. Those I let the players use after they know they’ve failed a save if they want (which has happened a grand total of twice so far).

To keep from metagaming when skill DCs are posted, I usually just try to never take 10 in PBP. If I roll it, I feel better about removing the possible metagameyness from the equation. I probably roll 95% of them.

I’ve though about collecting all the best take-10 skill values at the start of the game and then during the game for any checks only put spoilers around ones they have to roll to make.

I’ve haven’t done this yet, so I don’t know how well it would work.

GM Socrates wrote:

Why does hiding the DCs behind a spoiler not prevent it? Do your players cheat and open spoilers before they're supposed to?

How would you know if they did?

They could open the spoiler, find out the DC then take 10, and add in all the stuff you pointed out or make the roll instead then open the nested spoilers. Or they could just open all spoilers and get all the information and pretend like they only know the results of the ones their character made.

You wouldn't know, and they could do all those things. I'm reminded, though, of a note from the rules of the neat little game called Love Letter, the gist of which is "don't play with cheaters." Basically by hiding the DCs you allow honorable players to have an experience that is slightly closer to the f2f experience. On top of all the things other people have commented from their player perspective (pretty much all of which I agree with).

I need to be better about my systems, but a lot of the time I'm not worried about players seeing there were knowledge DCs they missed. I trust players not to metagame or cheat until they show me I can't.

I will often (both in PbP and FtF) make a chart of rolls I know the party is going to need to make (Perception checks, saves, etc) and have them pre-roll them before the session. They can even indicate that they wish to use a reroll if it hasn't been used already during the game.

This is particularly useful when just knowing you needed to make a check gives some meta-knowledge away. If no one makes the Perception check, bad guy gets to prepare. If one person does, PM or Spoiler tag to that player.

Same thing on "You open the door and there's a basilisk." I get the saves ahead of time and can just say "And only Ser Perf makes the Fort save. So many statues!"

Is GM Poblano Pepper okay?

We haven't heard anything from him in a couple weeks, which seems uncharacteristic (unless it's not? I don't actually know).

Is GM Poblano Pepper okay?

We haven't heard anything from him in a couple weeks, which seems uncharacteristic (unless it's not? I don't actually know).

I believe he is - I just pinged him on FB to let him know someone is asking.

Hey everyone!
New to PbP and pretty much a beginner to PFS, I'm looking to join a beginner friendly game, but I'm not too sure about where to look/post. If anyone could point me in the right direction that would be much appreciated!

Hey everyone!

New to PbP and pretty much a beginner to PFS, I'm looking to join a beginner friendly game, but I'm not too sure about where to look/post. If anyone could point me in the right direction that would be much appreciated!

Welcome aboard CaptainBacon! I too have recently joined PbP and the welcome has been overwhelmingly positive. You're in the right place to look, keep an eye on the recruitment tab for any games coming up.

Good luck in your future games!

Welcome CaptainBacon! Go ahead and make a post in the gameplay thread. this will link up this lodge to your Campaigns tab allowing you to keep a closer eye on games being recruited.

Choptop has it correct. Keep an eye on the recruitment tab and you will see a game being recruited in no time.

Welcome aboard CaptainBacon! I too have recently joined PbP and the welcome has been overwhelmingly positive. You're in the right place to look, keep an eye on the recruitment tab for any games coming up.

Good luck in your future games!

Welcome CaptainBacon! Go ahead and make a post in the gameplay thread. this will link up this lodge to your Campaigns tab allowing you to keep a closer eye on games being recruited.

Choptop has it correct. Keep an eye on the recruitment tab and you will see a game being recruited in no time.

Thank you both for the help, I'll do just that!

Bumble "Fidget" Rumbleberry wrote:

Is GM Poblano Pepper okay?

We haven't heard anything from him in a couple weeks, which seems uncharacteristic (unless it's not? I don't actually know).

I believe he is - I just pinged him on FB to let him know someone is asking.

Let me know if you hear anything back.

DM Khel wrote:

Bumble "Fidget" Rumbleberry wrote:

Is GM Poblano Pepper okay?

We haven't heard anything from him in a couple weeks, which seems uncharacteristic (unless it's not? I don't actually know).

I believe he is - I just pinged him on FB to let him know someone is asking.

Let me know if you hear anything back.

I heard back from him right away, and he said he'd check in. So I know he's okay, but don't know if he's been able to get back to his games. I do know he's got a small baby, so his time may not be his own.

Is my avatar displaying correctly? I use it for both this profile and my GM profile and it's suddenly not displaying for me.

Looks like it's displaying properly for me, anyway. (I'm using Brave on my Android.) Have you tried multiple devices/browsers?

I think it's a problem on my end, several avatars of players in other campaigns are also failing to display. I do everything on Chrome on my phone, hopefully I'll figure it out.

EDIT: Clearing my cookies, cache, etc. fixed the problem.

Happy July 4th to those celebrating!

Hey everyone!

New to PbP and pretty much a beginner to PFS, I'm looking to join a beginner friendly game, but I'm not too sure about where to look/post. If anyone could point me in the right direction that would be much appreciated!

I have just wrapped up a couple of games I was GMing and would happily run something. Also the Gameday is coming up which is an online convention so there will be many games there too.

If you are interested I can run something shorter so that you are freed up for Gameday, or something with pregens like a We Be Goblins or the like.

Would the following please report to the courtesy phone in the lobby of the Grand Lodge to receive their next assignment.

Alie Saechel
Valrar Altimari II
Wynnreyell
Shump
Tortuga

We have space for another brave adventurer of level 14-15 to join the party. Please register your interest HERE.

Hey guys, I have a level 7 scarab sage character that hasn't played any of the scarab sage scenarios. Which ones are still available for the character since he has left the 1-5 and almost the 3-7 range?

This link is very helpful. Look at both Scarb Sages and Osirion.

Still have not heard from GM Poblano Pepper. If he is coming back soon we are willing to wait but we have had two players bail already. If he will not be back could we get a replacement GM before we lose any more? He was running Shattered Stars in PFS Campaign Mode. We are in book one and it would be nice to at least finish that much of it.

Do you know how far through you are?

I'm a little hesitant to jump into even on book of an AP, especially with the next gameday coming up. But an idea of how close you are to closing out would be helpful to anyone thinking of this.

At 130 posts in, the AP is still in the really early phase.

Hey guys, I have a level 7 scarab sage character that hasn't played any of the scarab sage scenarios. Which ones are still available for the character since he has left the 1-5 and almost the 3-7 range?

Test of Tar Kuata is 3-7 so now would be a good time to play that. :-)

If anybody would be willing to GM that I could jump in with a Scarab Sages character too!