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Neither of those are Fuji applesWhich is what in this extended metaphor?
Needle Darts that does 3d4 +1d4/rank.
Are any of these choices so much better than the others that it is going to noticeably change your 'rounds to kill'?
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Generally it looks like spells that deal physical damage have slightly higher damage to make up for the fact that they are trying to punch through the same resistance and weaknesses that martials deal with. Using Gouging Claw for your white room default seems ideal, but you should still pack ignition for different enemies.
Actually, you should still pack ignition even for vanilla targets. Remember persistent damage of the same type won't stack, so once you've landed a Gouging Claw it is better to crit fish with Ignition until they get rid of your bleed damage.
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My least favorite change about the remaster is enemies rolling to grapple with grab. We played with this rule for 1 or two sessions before a caster got perma-restrained with nearly no chance of escape before going back to the old ones. I can appreciate what they were going for but enemies who were designed to grapple (and thus have grab) are probably still going to grapple a frontliner and are likely now to restrain backliners.I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this.
Previously, Grab and Improved Grab are no-roll automatic success. The difference between the two being that Grab costs an action and Improved Grab is a free action.
What I have heard of the Remaster versions of Grab and Improved Grab is that their action costs haven't changed, but the monster has to make an athletics roll in order to succeed.
By being able to roll monsters now have a chance to crit with their free attempt of grapple. Previously it was an automatic success. What I meant by no chance of escape is that the caster got restrained and unless they rolled decently high (10-15% chance) they couldnt get out of it. Let me see if I can show a bit of math.
A corpseroot against an average caster with 18 Con (assuming they started with 14 and pumped it at every opportunity). A pretty average scenario says the caster is level 10 and the corpse root is not elite or weak so is level 11 (a +1 monster). Most casters at this point have expert fortitude saves putting their DC at around 28 (10+14 Prof+ 4 Con).
The corpseroot with its +24 to grapple you does so on a 4 and crits you on a 14.
A caster's best shot at getting out is with an unarmed attack unless they pumped athletics/acrobatics and have invested in some skill items.
They have a +17 to escape (12 prof + 4 dex + 1 item) so you need to roll a 17 to beat the Corpseroot's athletics DC. On a 7 you critically fail.
This scenario to me is far worse then getting automatically grappled. Its further exacerbated against higher level enemies and bosses but I wanted to be more charitable since I know thats not the every day scenario.
I dont think its crazy unbalanced but simply a change that I dont like and won't be carrying on at my table. For context my table(s) is playing through AOA, AOE, EC, and SOT some APs where +1 or higher enemies are abundant and common. Having read through Bloodlords its much of the same for many parts.
So... what is even the point of Remastered Grab, then? If you still have to roll, and you still have to spend an action, then how is it any better than a standard grapple check?
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So... what is even the point of Remastered Grab, then? If you still have to roll, and you still have to spend an action, then how is it any better than a standard grapple check?
No MAP I think
So... what is even the point of Remastered Grab, then? If you still have to roll, and you still have to spend an action, then how is it any better than a standard grapple check?
It doesnt take multiple attack penalty. In my example the Corpseroot would make a root attack against you for an action then a grab (grapple) check with no MAP. This works even if the root attack was a -5 root strike. No MAP on the grapple attempt either way.
Kinda jacked asf, the hell? Idk, I really didn't want to play a magus to not do elemental damage with my swordGouging deals 2d6 damage plus2 persistent bleed on a regular hit. Heighten +1 for +1d6 and +1 bleed.
Double all on crit, to my understanding.
So use Ignition or Ray of Frost.
Is there anyone other than yourself insisting that you use Gouging Claw?
I'm addicted to big number, GC is big number plus BLOOD
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So... what is even the point of Remastered Grab, then? If you still have to roll, and you still have to spend an action, then how is it any better than a standard grapple check?
Being Critically Grabbed means you are Restrained, which means you are locked out of all other actions except purely mental actions (i.e. RK) or attempting to Escape/Break Free. Whereas before, you could still try to cast a spell or swing a sword at the enemy, even if it was automatic.
And with monster numbers being so jacked compared to PCs, the odds of them critically succeeding outweigh the chance of them failing/critically failing, especially against low-Con characters, meaning a creature with Grab is more likely to incapacitate PCs from combats, or force them to waste actions on escaping and not attacking or doing something else.
It is really starting to feel like PF2 just became much more deadly with all of the changes that have been implemented thus far. Now I am going to build my characters to die.
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My least favorite change about the remaster is enemies rolling to grapple with grab. We played with this rule for 1 or two sessions before a caster got perma-restrained with nearly no chance of escape before going back to the old ones. I can appreciate what they were going for but enemies who were designed to grapple (and thus have grab) are probably still going to grapple a frontliner and are likely now to restrain backliners.I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this.
Previously, Grab and Improved Grab are no-roll automatic success. The difference between the two being that Grab costs an action and Improved Grab is a free action.
What I have heard of the Remaster versions of Grab and Improved Grab is that their action costs haven't changed, but the monster has to make an athletics roll in order to succeed.
By being able to roll monsters now have a chance to crit with their free attempt of grapple. Previously it was an automatic success. What I meant by no chance of escape is that the caster got restrained and unless they rolled decently high (10-15% chance) they couldnt get out of it. Let me see if I can show a bit of math.
A corpseroot against an average caster with 18 Con (assuming they started with 14 and pumped it at every opportunity). A pretty average scenario says the caster is level 10 and the corpse root is not elite or weak so is level 11 (a +1 monster). Most casters at this point have expert fortitude saves putting their DC at around 28 (10+14 Prof+ 4 Con).
The corpseroot with its +24 to grapple you does so on a 4 and crits you on a 14.
A caster's best shot at getting out is with an unarmed attack unless they pumped athletics/acrobatics and have invested in some skill items.
They have a +17 to escape (12 prof + 4 dex + 1 item) so you need to roll a 17 to beat the Corpseroot's athletics DC. On a 7 you critically fail.This scenario to me is far worse then getting automatically grappled. Its further...
Plus, from the standpoint of piloting sometimes intelligent creatures:
If I have a guaranteed grab, I'm liable to use it on any target I happen to strike.If I have to make a check, I'm even less inclined than normal to try and grab the beefy front liner and instead focus even more on the back liners, where I am presumed more likely to be successful.
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Plus, from the standpoint of piloting sometimes intelligent creatures:
If I have a guaranteed grab, I'm liable to use it on any target I happen to strike.
If I have to make a check, I'm even less inclined than normal to try and grab the beefy front liner and instead focus even more on the back liners, where I am presumed more likely to be successful.
Precisely! As a matter of fact, before I would often target the beefy frontlines with the grab since that meant I had an easier time chunking through their higher AC with that flat-footed condition. Another thing I forgot to mention was just the cumbersomeness of several roles. I loved the snappiness of automatic maneuvers. The best case scenario for these new rules is when facing multiple lower level enemies who now have a much lower chance to now automatically grab you and have a good chance to whiff. But now as a GM I have to roll for all these enemies, slowing down game time (something I personally try to avoid like the plague).
More soapboxing but this also really hurts summons whos biggest utility was using things like grab, knockdown, and shove. Now their modifier, despite being nice for their level compared to PCs, probably wont match up being on average -4 level compared to the enemies.
I had more grievances with this than I remembered apparently haha.
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I really like the change to the Weapon Proficiency general feat but the initial Fighter Dedication and Diverse Weapon Expert haven't changed at all to compensate. This especially makes Diverse Weapon Expert a complete waste now that it costs a class/free archetype feat but now only has the value of half of a general feat (assuming your character is 1 of the VERY few classes that might even want it in the first place).
Also, unless I missed something significant, talismans still look completely underwhelming.
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They get DEX to damage to finesse unarmed attacks now, so for example Wolf Jaw from Wolf Stance, which are d8 agile, backstabber, finesse attacks, which are much stronger than any other attack a Thief had prior access to. Especially since Ruffians new martial/advanced weapon access is limited to d6 attacks, those weapons are a joke compared to Thief's access to those unarmed attacks.What did Thief get?So far, my biggest dislike is the logic (or lack thereof) behind the balance shift of Rogue rackets. The by far strongest racket, namely Thief, got the biggest buff. Scoundrel and Ruffian got slight buffs and the weakest racket, so Mastermind (ignoring Eldritch Trickster), is completely unchanged. I don't consider fixing Recall Knowledge to finally work at all any buff to it whatsoever.
I understand that they had to hurry with Player Core 1 release and couldn't fix every single tiny issue the game had. But how do mess up something as obvious as Rogue rackets this bad? There is not a single person in existence that would consider Mastermind stronger than Thief or Ruffian, yet for whatever reason it was considered to be "fine" as is, not needing a single change. How?
You mean I can finally make a ninja concept using a martial style and get dex to damage? That is awesome.
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If you played a universalist wizard, I'm pretty sure all the remaster has been is a big buff? You get a free focus spell at level 1 (hand of the apprentice is incredibly fun) in addition to your free wizard feat. Your advanced school spell is now unique and while I wouldn't say its good I will say its cool and memorable. Yoinking an enemy's spell then casting it back at them is hilarious.
My least favorite change about the remaster is enemies rolling to grapple with grab. We played with this rule for 1 or two sessions before a caster got perma-restrained with nearly no chance of escape before going back to the old ones. I can appreciate what they were going for but enemies who were designed to grapple (and thus have grab) are probably still going to grapple a frontliner and are likely now to restrain backliners.
Universalist was always the only wizard worth playing.
So then why are subjective takes being used as objective facts for the class' positives, but not the class' negatives? It works both ways IMO; the subjective negativity is just as valid as the subjective positivity.
Also, saying one new feat is good for the class when it already has a bunch of bad feats to begin with is basically throwing feat taxes on the class instead of providing actual parity between options to promote differing playstyles, compared to the de facto "just take dedication feats" gameplay it has now.
Correct I did infact mention that there are aspects and features of the class that make people like it the most of all the casters. I did not say it was objective, I did say it was playstyle preference. Mathematically speaking casters are about as good as each other and each spell list is about as good as the others
Everything people use to demonstrate a class being good is with their feats. Chassis alone all casters are nearly identical with wizard and sorcerer having more slots. Everyone gets one focus spell with no feat investment. If we don't talk about feats these classes are near identical. The only stand out is divine font and it's only heal spells. You have to talk about feats to talk about a class being good. Wizards get some good feats, people just don't like that they're straight forward and not as flashy. Which is fine, the sorcerer exists because it's something more people will like
This is true.
It comes down to the value of the additional class features and feats. Wizards have one good build with the Universalist and a limited role in a group as a damage/utility caster. Hand of the Apprentice is one of their best focus spells.
Wizards will have improved weapon options which will help their damage numbers and access to archetypes quite a bit. That in itself will be a big boost. They can now pick up the archer archetype and ancestry feats making for a more well-rounded wizard.
The most important improvement to the wizard that should most impact them is adding simple weapon proficiency. It opens up a lot more feats and archetype builds. Since the wizard is sort of like the fighter having "meh" feats, you can take archetypes easier.
The most important improvement for the wizard overall is making spellcasting proficiency static. So they can take casting archetypes to add more casting options, while not worrying about the reduced casting proficiency.
This opens a lot of builds for the wizard as well.
If they added some cool wizard feats, wizard should be quite a bit better.
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Also, unless I missed something significant, talismans still look completely underwhelming.
That's too bad - I've run a couple of the APs through and not even once have my players used talismans.
What changes did they make?
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This is true.
It comes down to the value of the additional class features and feats. Wizards have one good build with the Universalist and a limited role in a group as a damage/utility caster. Hand of the Apprentice is one of their best focus spells.
Wizards will have improved weapon options which will help their damage numbers and access to archetypes quite a bit. That in itself will be a big boost. They can now pick up the archer archetype and ancestry feats making for a more well-rounded wizard.
The most important improvement to the wizard that should most impact them is adding simple weapon proficiency. It opens up a lot more feats and archetype builds. Since the wizard is sort of like the fighter having "meh" feats, you can take archetypes easier.
The most important improvement for the wizard overall is making spellcasting proficiency static. So they can take casting archetypes to add more casting options, while not worrying about the reduced casting proficiency.
This opens a lot of builds for the wizard as well.
If they added some cool wizard feats, wizard should be quite a bit better.
Bard and Wizard come away from the change to spell proficiencies particularly well with witch and sorcerer archetypes allowing them to add any spell tradition they'd like to the repertoire, and witch in particular is a pretty good dedication and always had been. Psychic also benefits here, and when animist rolls around wisdom casters will get some access to this even though it'll be the weakest version. I think wizard comes away gaining the most from this change but just about everyone gets something
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Bard and Wizard come away from the change to spell proficiencies particularly well with witch and sorcerer archetypes allowing them to add any spell tradition they'd like to the repertoire, and witch in particular is a pretty good dedication and always had been. Psychic also benefits here, and when animist rolls around wisdom casters will get some access to this even though it'll be the weakest version. I think wizard comes away gaining the most from this change but just about everyone gets somethingThis is true.
It comes down to the value of the additional class features and feats. Wizards have one good build with the Universalist and a limited role in a group as a damage/utility caster. Hand of the Apprentice is one of their best focus spells.
Wizards will have improved weapon options which will help their damage numbers and access to archetypes quite a bit. That in itself will be a big boost. They can now pick up the archer archetype and ancestry feats making for a more well-rounded wizard.
The most important improvement to the wizard that should most impact them is adding simple weapon proficiency. It opens up a lot more feats and archetype builds. Since the wizard is sort of like the fighter having "meh" feats, you can take archetypes easier.
The most important improvement for the wizard overall is making spellcasting proficiency static. So they can take casting archetypes to add more casting options, while not worrying about the reduced casting proficiency.
This opens a lot of builds for the wizard as well.
If they added some cool wizard feats, wizard should be quite a bit better.
Yea, wizard using fervor witch to get divine slots at full potency is pretty bonkers to me. It sounds like a mystic theurge. Pretty cool!
So far, my biggest dislike is the logic (or lack thereof) behind the balance shift of Rogue rackets. The by far strongest racket, namely Thief, got the biggest buff. Scoundrel and Ruffian got slight buffs and the weakest racket, so Mastermind (ignoring Eldritch Trickster), is completely unchanged. I don't consider fixing Recall Knowledge to finally work at all any buff to it whatsoever.
I understand that they had to hurry with Player Core 1 release and couldn't fix every single tiny issue the game had. But how do mess up something as obvious as Rogue rackets this bad? There is not a single person in existence that would consider Mastermind stronger than Thief or Ruffian, yet for whatever reason it was considered to be "fine" as is, not needing a single change. How?
Did they change any of the verbiage on additional recall knowledge attempts on the same target? That was the biggest weakness of the mastermind.
I've heard the wording on Spell Blending hasn't changed at all, which would imply that Spell Blending away your low level school slots is still a thing. So there's that, at least.
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After reading everything I could find on familiars, animal companions, and minions, I found absolutely nothing regarding how to handle them during Exploration or Downtime.
This will leave many GMs treating them as pet rocks at many tables while others will allow them to be secondary characters (such as a messenger, researcher, scout, spy, or some other useful utilitarian role).
I consider this not finally getting clarified to be both a missed opportunity and a dislike.
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Nevertheless, it seems strange to me that a rogue pretending to be a monk will likely outdamage a true monk at the monk's niche: unarmed strikes.
Why is that strange to you? The PF2 monk has never had innate damage bonuses. Almost everyone outdamages the monk with the same unarmed strike, because most martials (barring champions, flurry/outwit, and fighters) have static damage modifiers in their kit.
Unarmed strikes aren't their sole purview or primary niche either.
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I really like the change to the Weapon Proficiency general feat but the initial Fighter Dedication and Diverse Weapon Expert haven't changed at all to compensate.
...
Did the Rogue Dedication's granting of light armor proficiency change to match the change to the Armor Proficiency feat or does it also still not increase in proficiency?
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That sucks. Restoration was such a nice spell not having to heighten it.
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Yea, wizard using fervor witch to get divine slots at full potency is pretty bonkers to me. It sounds like a mystic theurge. Pretty cool!
Before I would have been chomping at the bit for synesthesia from occult, but now that this is not reprinted and occult and arcane overlap so much it seems like divine is the way to go
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Also, unless I missed something significant, talismans still look completely underwhelming.That's too bad - I've run a couple of the APs through and not even once have my players used talismans.
What changes did they make?
Most notably, talismans no longer have the weird skill requirements to use.
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Still no love for dual wielding or throwing.
Two actions to pull out a weapon with each hand, unless you use two hands to grab one weapon, same for swapping, not to mention the tax of extra runes or gear to duplicate runes and returning tax on throwing.
It's already more effective to use big sword, no need to bully the duals.
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Still no love for dual wielding or throwing.
Two actions to pull out a weapon with each hand, unless you use two hands to grab one weapon, same for swapping, not to mention the tax of extra runes or gear to duplicate runes and returning tax on throwing.It's already more effective to use big sword, no need to bully the duals.
LIGHTNING SWAP, 2nd level fighter feat: one Interact to stow
any number of items from your hands, then draw up to twoweapons or a shield and a weapon. So you can draw 2 weapons in 1 action, solves that. Thrower's Bandolier solves the duplicate runes for thrown and reurning and Blazons of Shared Power does for melee.
Still no love for dual wielding or throwing.
Two actions to pull out a weapon with each hand, unless you use two hands to grab one weapon, same for swapping, not to mention the tax of extra runes or gear to duplicate runes and returning tax on throwing.It's already more effective to use big sword, no need to bully the duals.
LIGHTNING SWAP, 2nd level fighter feat: one Interact to stow
any number of items from your hands, then draw up to two
weapons or a shield and a weapon. So you can draw 2 weapons in 1 action, solves that. Thrower's Bandolier solves the duplicate runes for thrown and reurning and Blazons of Shared Power does for melee.
Gonna look a the swap, shame if only fighter got it. The others I mentioned with "gear tax"
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Gonna look a the swap, shame if only fighter got it. The others I mentioned with "gear tax"Still no love for dual wielding or throwing.
Two actions to pull out a weapon with each hand, unless you use two hands to grab one weapon, same for swapping, not to mention the tax of extra runes or gear to duplicate runes and returning tax on throwing.It's already more effective to use big sword, no need to bully the duals.
LIGHTNING SWAP, 2nd level fighter feat: one Interact to stow
any number of items from your hands, then draw up to two
weapons or a shield and a weapon. So you can draw 2 weapons in 1 action, solves that. Thrower's Bandolier solves the duplicate runes for thrown and reurning and Blazons of Shared Power does for melee.
Lightning Swap seems like the sort of feat that might show up in the remastered Dual-Weapon Warrior archetype in Player Core 2.
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Lightning swap could have been a good candidate for a General Feat. It eould benefit a lot of classes and playstyles.
It feels the remaster was super rushed and some basic things or considerations were just missed.
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I've heard the wording on Spell Blending hasn't changed at all, which would imply that Spell Blending away your low level school slots is still a thing. So there's that, at least.
Have any thesis options changed at all? I was hoping some of the less useful ones Metamagical Experimentation would have got more than an name update.
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Gonna look a the swap, shame if only fighter got it. The others I mentioned with "gear tax"Still no love for dual wielding or throwing.
Two actions to pull out a weapon with each hand, unless you use two hands to grab one weapon, same for swapping, not to mention the tax of extra runes or gear to duplicate runes and returning tax on throwing.It's already more effective to use big sword, no need to bully the duals.
LIGHTNING SWAP, 2nd level fighter feat: one Interact to stow
any number of items from your hands, then draw up to two
weapons or a shield and a weapon. So you can draw 2 weapons in 1 action, solves that. Thrower's Bandolier solves the duplicate runes for thrown and reurning and Blazons of Shared Power does for melee.
But every class has a gear tax: monks have to buy handwraps, shield users have to buy runes for their shields, wizards buy staves, everyone buys some kind of armor. Sure the "big sword" has to buy less but pays for it with less AC or deals with MAP for multiple Strikes [which means less hits/crits].
Throwing started off rough but isn't currently bad off and is in some cases better than single weapon builds [a Thrower's Bandolier allows swapping precious materials with runes applied]. Dual has always been fine IMO.
I've heard the wording on Spell Blending hasn't changed at all, which would imply that Spell Blending away your low level school slots is still a thing. So there's that, at least.Have any thesis options changed at all? I was hoping some of the less useful ones Metamagical Experimentation would have got more than an name update.
Look all the same benefits offhand.
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Did the Rogue Dedication's granting of light armor proficiency change to match the change to the Armor Proficiency feat or does it also still not increase in proficiency?I really like the change to the Weapon Proficiency general feat but the initial Fighter Dedication and Diverse Weapon Expert haven't changed at all to compensate.
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I have the same question.
I think if this is true, that both Fighter Dedication and Rogue Dedication not giving the same scaling for their respective proficiencies that General Feats do is possibly an oversight.
=)
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Did the Rogue Dedication's granting of light armor proficiency change to match the change to the Armor Proficiency feat or does it also still not increase in proficiency?I really like the change to the Weapon Proficiency general feat but the initial Fighter Dedication and Diverse Weapon Expert haven't changed at all to compensate.
...I have the same question.
I think if this is true, that both Fighter Dedication and Rogue Dedication not giving the same scaling for their respective proficiencies that General Feats do is possibly an oversight.
=)
Yeah, Rogue dedication starts you off with trained but with no further advancement. It still gives you all the other goodies at least, whereas I still think the initial Fighter dedication is only slightly better than training in a single skill on its own.
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Lightning swap could have been a good candidate for a General Feat. It eould benefit a lot of classes and playstyles.
It feels the remaster was super rushed and some basic things or considerations were just missed.
This is just me, but I feel the same way about Blade Break as a skill feat. Then we could at least pretend to have a STR based analogue of Kip Up to help against being shoved.
But that's not what I dislike about the remaster: I think the Powerful Shove changes are completely arbitrary. Seeing part of the benefit restricted to either clubs or polearms got my hopes up that we'd get a bunch of new weapon-group specific feats, but no, they just decided to make that one feat less usable by certain characters to sprinkle some unneeded realism onto it.
It's a minor thing, but it sticks out like a sore thumb when no other feats besides the reworked Dragging Strike) work like that.
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I don't really see the issue with light armor. What character is looking for light armor and is not going to be boosting Dexterity enough that by level 10 the difference between light armor and no armor is, at most, 1 point? No one is taking the Rogue MC specifically for the light Armor training, at least not if if this is some kind of low level one shot where it won't matter what happens at higher level anyway. The Light Armor Training is almost always just a nice quick patch while your Dex is only a 16. It would be far more likely for it to be removed than upgraded, and personally I would rather that not happen.
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But that's not what I dislike about the remaster: I think the Powerful Shove changes are completely arbitrary. Seeing part of the benefit restricted to either clubs or polearms got my hopes up that we'd get a bunch of new weapon-group specific feats, but no, they just decided to make that one feat less usable by certain characters to sprinkle some unneeded realism onto it.
It's a minor thing, but it sticks out like a sore thumb when no other feats besides the reworked Dragging Strike) work like that.
I'm reading this as a direct buff. As in it triggers off a shove (from any source) or from these crit specs that didn't trigger it before.
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The witch archetype now gives a familiar with 2 abilities for the dedication, in addition to the cantrip and skills.
It goes up to 3 abilities with basic lesson. None of the other caster archetypes got a boost.
I find this super confusing as witch was already considered an amazing archetype that many considered to obsolete wizard archetype. Now they boost it but leave the other caster archetypes alone? The others should give 3 cantrips to let them keep up.
Nah, witch archetype needs to be awesome so wizards have SOME good feats to take.
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The witch archetype now gives a familiar with 2 abilities for the dedication, in addition to the cantrip and skills.
It goes up to 3 abilities with basic lesson. None of the other caster archetypes got a boost.
I find this super confusing as witch was already considered an amazing archetype that many considered to obsolete wizard archetype. Now they boost it but leave the other caster archetypes alone? The others should give 3 cantrips to let them keep up.
It was considered good because of its choice of tradition and its hexes. Not because it had a familiar that could be ruled that you lose the entirety of the archetype if that fragile body dies.
Does the Witch archetype still only give 1 cantrip? If so, then I really don't think the other caster archetypes need boosted to 3 of them.
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It was considered good because of its choice of tradition and its hexes. Not because it had a familiar that could be ruled that you lose the entirety of the archetype if that fragile body dies.
Does the Witch archetype still only give 1 cantrip? If so, then I really don't think the other caster archetypes need boosted to 3 of them.
2 cantrips from patron's tradition, the familiar, and trained in patron's skill. You can only prepare 1 cantrip though