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Bluemagetim wrote:

yeah basically if you pick Dromar or Aiuvaran as your heritage, you get the trait you get lowlight vision and it doesnt upgrade to darkvision if your base ancestry already has it, and you get access to the associated ancestry feats.

I felt a little underwhelmed with this too. But access to two different lists of ancestry feats is something you would need to take a general feat to get otherwise.

Essentially, your Heritage is giving you the Adopted Ancestry general feat right at first level.


ikarinokami wrote:
Calliope5431 wrote:
So what do people think? It seems weaker than any previous list (other than the old elementalist one), but are there any tricks you can pull with it? Is it pure blaster?

The elementalism list is sub optimal, the problem is that all those spells appear on the primal or arcane list, both of which are far superior to the elementalism list.

You are picking the elementalist archetype for the feats, which are not great, but it has flavor. not every character play has to be optimal, the list is weaker than either arcane or primal, but it is still very functional.

if a divine or occult only caster like a bard or cleric could take it, that would be interesting, because those classes can't get most of those spells on that list, it would interesting.

A Storm Oracle who could use spells off of the wind and water parts of the elemental list would be kind of neat.


Kobolds can make decent kineticists, I think. At low levels, their Kobold Breath feat can give an AoE attack to kineticists who want to use their Impulses on other options, an attack which scales with their Class DC. Cringe is a nice reaction to have since critical hits will eventually happen. There are also some impulses which create difficult terrain, which might be able to synergize with the Briar Battler feat. Also, they can get a fly speed even if the never get the air element.


Do you think with the additions of these spells, a wizard or sorcerer who takes the elementalist class archetype would feel like they have a good variety of magic to use?


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Humans have brains made out of meat, while liches don't. So I'd say there's a lot of distortion going on.


I'd say it doesn't interact at all. The feat isn't modifying your fist unarmed attack, it is giving you a new type of unarmed attack, a clay fist attack.


Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:
Lizardfolk have some hice options. I also love their astronomy feats.

"I observed the night sky last night. The stars told me that today you will be conquered by silver."


Kaspyr2077 wrote:

Had a silly optimization idea regarding the Aldori Duelist build in the guide. See, the Aldori Duelist Dedication means you are as proficient with the Aldori dueling sword as you are with your highest proficiency weapons. That being the case, you get all the benefits of higher proficiency with the Aldori dueling sword, even if you don't specialize in Swords at 5th level, right? Also, the Swords category doesn't have a thrown weapon, but Axes or Hammers do. Finally, you take Aldori Duelist Dedication at Level 2, and don't get Fighter Weapon Mastery until 5. Is there an advantage to choosing Swords instead of Axes or Hammers in a build with Aldori Duelist Dedication, or would it be better to cheese it and have your master swordsman character actually specialized in Hammers instead, for throwing light hammers at full bonus?

I love your guides. I've learned so much from them.

Why not have them specialize in Bows? Dueling Swords are finesse weapons, so you can start a fight with some shots with a longbow and then draw your curling sword when enemies close in, with both methods of attack being equally as accurate.


The Stag instinct is pretty strong, since their antlers attack has the grapple trait and will eventually get reach. Grappling will be a great way for you to control where your enemies move, so looking for Barbarian feats that can work with that is a good idea.


Starfinder Enhanced? When did that get announced?


A free-hand fighter might be worth considering. They can do the debuffing and controlling thing with athletics maneuvers, having a hand free means you can support allies with battle medicine, and you still have the ability to pile on damage when needed with the fighter's accuracy (using a two-hand weapon like a bastard sword or earth breaker in combination with the dual-handed assault feat lets you deal 2-handed weapon damage while keeping your hand free).


VampByDay wrote:

Something I just figured out that might change some builds for people!

A lot of these weapons are good for Rogues, except that they don't get martial weapon proficiency. Well, there is a fix for that. The Mauler Archetype! The dedication makes you proficient in all two-handed Martial melee weapons, and it auto-scales with your other weapon proficiencies. Yes, it does require 14 strength, but that is certainly doable with many rogue builds.

This opens rogues up to be able to use: Dancer's spear, whipsataff, bladed scarf, Combat Lure, Rope Dart, and (stupidly) the staff part of the bow-staff (but not the bow part . . . I guess?)

Now there just needs to be an archetype that does the same but for one-handed martial weapons and we'll be good!

A few extra points of damage at low levels, a decent athletics skill, and a few extra bulk of carrying capacity are not bad things to have by any means.


Shouldn’t the Grimple also be on the level 1 list? At low levels, an AOE sickening effect sounds like it should be pretty good.


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What about the Spell Trickster archetype? It includes some fun ways to modify fireball if you are so inclined.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:
Hypothetically the use of the Gunner's Bandolier is that it would let you use guns with different stats for different situations, but there's not a lot of variety among things that would qualify (I wouldn't let someone strap a jezail to a bandolier personally).

Dueling Pistol/Clan Pistol as your main weapon.

Dragon Pistol if you're dealing with swarms.

Hand Cannon/Big Boom Gun if you're fighting an enemy with a slashing or bludgeoning weakness.

Hand Crossbow if you're fighting in the rain/underwater.

Four different kinds of one-handed guns/crossbows for different situations.


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VampByDay wrote:
Squiggit wrote:
VampByDay wrote:
Squiggit wrote:
aobst128 wrote:
Panabas has been marked for errata unfortunately. Since it invalidates the scimitar and falchion.
It's wild that Paizo will look at a sword that's literally always worse than a bastard sword, and then announce they want to nerf it.
I mean, not to be THAT guy, but the Panabas has both forceful and sweep, which the bastard sword doesn’t have. YMMV whether that is worth the drop in damage die. The reason it is being nerfed is that it is just straight up better than the scimitar (d6 forceful sweep, no two-hand) and the falchion (d10 forceful sweep, no one handed option)

It's not really a YMMV thing. You cannot make enough attacks in a round for the panabas to ever substantively outperform a bastard sword. Nerfing a mediocre weapon because you accidentally printed a really underpowered weapon in another book is just weird.

You are forgetting Sweep, which, while I agree isn't great, if you use it and it turns a miss into a hit, or a hit into a crit, then that's a d10 damage that your d12 bastard sword wasn't doing. As my friend likes to say "It doesn't matter how much damage you can do if you never hit."

I'm not disagreeing mind. I do think the d12 is in general better, just reminding you of two tenants of Pathfinder 2, one is that not everything can be boiled down to 'better or worse than x' and two, every +1 matters.

Plus, Sweep is one of the few weapon traits to get dedicated feat support, from multiple classes even. Barbarians and Fighters can get Swipe, and Magi can get Spell Swipe.


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A Thaumaturge whose esoterica are paper seals with different symbols that he attaches to his weapon and implements.


Gortle wrote:
The Platypus is a Beastkin and I'd go with Monk or perhaps Investigator.

Or a summoner with a beast eidolon.


Let's say I'm a Thaumaturge. At level 6, I get the Scroll Esoterica feat, allowing me to create one free scroll of a level 1 spell per day. Let's say I then decide to start wearing Scroll Robes, which have the Inscribed trait.

Could I inscribe my free scroll from Scroll Esoterica onto my Scroll Robes?


The Sapling Shield makes the Tower Shield Champion or Fighter more viable. Before, you could raise your shield and take cover behind it, but not block with it at higher levels since it would just break. Plus, you can convert it into a buckler for easy storage when you're not in a fight.


Otherwise, Swashbucklers would miss out on some potentially thematic shields that won’t work with their buckler class feats.


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Another fun use for the Barricade Buster is as a Starlit Span Magus. Finally, the Gunmage is a viable build!

Also, Giant Barbarian wielding a Nodachi. You are the biggest boi, wielding the biggest sword. (Probably want to be a human for Unconventional Weaponry)

Finally, the best way I can think of to properly use the Wrecker weapon is a Dwarven Ranger. Precision edge, running reload, and you should be fine, I think.


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Neat guide! One ancestry that I think is also worth a look is the orc, specifically because their Iron Fists ancestry feat lets you add the shove trait to your fist attack, which I will note is already agile. It’s especially nice if you’re going the monk route and plan to get Handwraps of Mighty Blows already.


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The “wielding a tree” part sounds fun. As for magic, I’d focus on taking Primal Spells that mainly help with exploration an investigation, like Detect Magic & Seashell of Stolen Sound.


In addition to Swashbucklers, the Silvertongue Mutagen is a nice buff for Bards, since some of their focus spells require a Performance Check.


I've theory crafted a Two-Handed Investigator before that takes the Mauler archetype which looked kind of fun.


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I quite like both of the dwarven cultures in Garund and how they're tied to the sky rather than the earth.


There are a few interactions, like the Conduct Energy action you can use if you're wielding a Resonant Weapon, that need you to use an action with the Fire trait beforehand. So you could heal with one action while boosting the damage of the strike you'll be making with one of your later actions.


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The Recycled Cogwheel feat from the Trapsmith Archetype is needed if you want to deconstruct and later redeploy a snare that you have already set up.


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You die and are raised again, but as a ghoul who is a complete servant of their hunger and is unable to control it like a PC Ghoul could.


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Well, if the monster the PC wants to become is Undead, there's archetypes for that.


gesalt wrote:
FLanasaurasRex wrote:
HumbleGamer wrote:
...

Thanks for such a detailed reply. It was really helpful info. Just one question: I’ve read a few places that occultism interacts is a good one to develop because it influences quite a few bardic feats. The only one I’m aware of is the interaction with levelling up bardic lore. What else is beneficial about this.?

Also isn’t using skill increases on occultism a waste as bards get a boost (at around level 7 i think). It it simply a case of getting it online earlier?

If you're going Enigma, then you want legendary occultism by the end of the game to pick up Studious Capacity (16) and Deep Lore (18) which have it as a prerequisite

Occultism is also needed if you take the combat reading (4) or eclectic skill (8) feats, but I don't find these to be particularly useful.

There's also no free occultism skill boost. You're thinking of the boost to occult spell DCs.

Polymath Bards who take the Esoteric Polymath feat also want to boost up their Occultism Skill, since it helps them learn spells to add to their Occult spell book.


VampByDay wrote:
Kelseus wrote:

For your color ratings, you should include a number of stars next to the colored word. Like this:

Blue Option (****)
Red Option (*)

This is helpful for our colorblind or seeing-impaired friends trying to read the guide.

I would also suggest bolding any word that is colored. It helps it pop while writing the guide.

Yeah, I thought about that, but I also really enjoy in-between rankings (like yellow/green) and I’m unsure how to do that with stars. I also reserve holding for feats/spells that are new to the book, but I need to be more consistent with implementing that.

@Blave: Huh, it DOES damage friends, but it only kills/head explodes enemies. I’ll fix that.

Maybe after each mixed-color ranking, you could include a mixed-Star ranking? Like after a half-orange half-green option, you include (**/***).


Ranger is probably a decent multiclass archetype for an Infinite Eye Psychic. 14 Dexterity as a prerequisite for Ranger Dedication is pretty doable, Hunt Prey gives you a circumstance bonus to seek your Prey which combos nicely with Omnidirectional Scan (at least, if you're using that Cantrip to Seek for a hidden or undetected enemy to point it out to your allies), and they can also use the Master Spotter feat to boost their Perception up to Master proficiency which works nicely with Foresee the Path and just initiative in general.


aobst128 wrote:
One thing that could be useful for 2 handed firearms if you plan to use risky reload / flesh wound / dance of thunder or otherwise plan to make more than one attack on your turn is don't be ashamed of using a Harmona gun or like previously mentioned, the taw launcher, which has conveniently has been errata'd to count as a crossbow so you can get proficiency with it with advanced shooter at 6th level. Nothing wrong with going with some good consistency.

The Taw Launcher was also errated to have the Conrasu trait, which means a Conrasu character can start with one at Level 1 with the Conrasu Weapon Expertise feat.


One idea I’ve had the is to use the Gunner’s Bandolier so that your Gunslinger can carry a bunch of different guns to deal with different situations. In most encounters a Dueling Pistol or Clan Pistol will do the job. However, if you run into a swarm, draw your Dragon Mouth Pistol instead. If you run into an enemy weak to slashing or bludgeoning damage, keep a Hand Cannon to deal with those. And you can use a Hand Crossbow or a Gun outfitted with an Air Cartridge modification if you’re fighting in the rain or underwater or any other location where your gunpowder could get soggy.

And all these weapons will be kitted up with the Fundamental Runes you need to succeed because they’re also holstered in your Gunner’s Bandolier.


Automatons can integrate a Jezail into their arm at level 5, and 2-hand it for Fatal Aim, meaning you can play a PF2 version of Samus Aran. They can also be holstered in a Gunner’s Bandolier if you want to make use of that item.


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I don’t know how it would work, but an evil campaign where the PCs are trying to supplant House Thrune to become the new diabolic overlords of Cheliax sounds like an interesting way to do another evil Cheliax-focused campaign.


Edeldhur wrote:

That is a good advice. Thanks NielsenE!

Any recommended finesse weapon which would make sense for an outdoors, wild kind of guy? :)

It’s uncommon so you’d need to get your GM on board, but the Dueling Spear from Grand Bazaar is 2-handed Finesse spear, and hunting with spears sounds very outdoorsy. At least to me.


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VampByDay wrote:
Ventnor wrote:
VampByDay wrote:
Ventnor wrote:

Another archetype that might be worth looking into for the Psychic is the Spell Trickster, which can modify several spells they can cast (depending on your Conscious Mind) without needing an action.

Of course, there is also the question of how a spell mod feat would interact with an improved Psi Cantrip, even before it gets amped.

I vaguely remember reading somewhere that amps don't work with metamagic feats as both are worded "If the next action is to cast a spell." Because the next action would be to do a free action metamagic feat, I don't think they stack, but I most certainly could be wrong. I'm far, far from 100% on that. I'll look it up and get back to you.
That’s the thing. Spell Trickster spell modification feats are not metamagic. They change the way a spell works without using any additional actions.

I'm leaning no for two reasons. One is that a lot of Dark Archive treats !amped cantrips and unamped cantrips as two different spells. For example, !amped guidance just overides the cooldown on plain ol' guidance.

Secondly, and I admit this is tenous as well, Spell Trickster specifically says that if you modify a spell, it can't be modified again. Now, I know the intent was that you can't trickester-modify it, but, well, amps are a form of a modification to a spell.

I mean, there is no clear ruling, that's just the way I'd lean as a GM.

Also, first 2 levels of feats are up for the psychic.

I'd still say that Spell Trickster would be a good pick up for an Oscillating Wave Psychic since several Spell Trickster feats can add some targeting and control options to Fireball, a key spell that they get access too. Plus, since they won't be getting the Psi version of Mage Hand or Shield, they should get some more utility with their non-blasting cantrips from this archetype.


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VampByDay wrote:
Ventnor wrote:

Another archetype that might be worth looking into for the Psychic is the Spell Trickster, which can modify several spells they can cast (depending on your Conscious Mind) without needing an action.

Of course, there is also the question of how a spell mod feat would interact with an improved Psi Cantrip, even before it gets amped.

I vaguely remember reading somewhere that amps don't work with metamagic feats as both are worded "If the next action is to cast a spell." Because the next action would be to do a free action metamagic feat, I don't think they stack, but I most certainly could be wrong. I'm far, far from 100% on that. I'll look it up and get back to you.

That’s the thing. Spell Trickster spell modification feats are not metamagic. They change the way a spell works without using any additional actions.


Another archetype that might be worth looking into for the Psychic is the Spell Trickster, which can modify several spells they can cast (depending on your Conscious Mind) without needing an action.

Of course, there is also the question of how a spell mod feat would interact with an improved Psi Cantrip, even before it gets amped.


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To play devil’s advocate, the two-hand trait does say that the damage die increase only happens when the weapon is held in two hands. Since a weapon that is being thrown is held in no hands as soon as you throw it, it probably reverts back to the one-handed damage die.


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Weapon selection might not be a bad section. You know, once you get past the obligatory “just get a flickmace you doofus” disclaimer.


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I like this idea.


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Water Kineticists do have a lot of cold-themed impulses in the Playtest, but a simple “you can deal cold damage with your blast” would be good too.


graystone wrote:
Oh and Cryptic Spell [druid 4th level] feat from the new book lets you conceal manifestations in natural terrain with a Nature check. So Rogue’s Eldritch Trickster/multiclass druid might be the thing to go for for stealthy casting. Getting Wis as your casting stat isn't bad either [who says no to raising a save stat?].

“You guys, I think that tree just cast scorching ray at me!”


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keftiu wrote:

A friend proposed this, and it's too fun not to share: a Changeling Thaumaturge with multiclass Sorcerer for the Hag Bloodline. I feel like it comes around to the "occult detective with a little spellcasting" in the most roundabout way imaginable, but it has me really excited.

I'm inclined to copy it on a Nagaji once LO:IL drops, reflavored to fit a Spirit Naga (as they sometimes form covens with hags).

Fetchling Thaumaturge archetyped into Shadow Sorcerer?


So, the Tengu Feather Fan feats lets a Tengu cast cantrips & certain spells they get by activating a magic item. Doing so uses your Class DC, which means Tengu innate spells cast through a Feather Fan can benefit from the effect of the Cursed Effigy feat.

Of course, the problem with this idea is that the Tengu Feather Fan isn't an implement, esoterica, or a weapon.


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I'd like a Primal Elemental Eidolon and an Arcane Genie Eidolon.

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