**Official Query** Arcanist Revision


Class Discussion

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Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

This is a great concept and not one that could really be created with any other combination in the game that I am aware of. I'm really excited to see where it goes and I'm also excited to be able to recreate a character concept that I had in 3.5 with this that involved wanting to steal power from gods. Thanks a bunch guys :-)

Shadow Lodge

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Come to think of it, I would be greatly amused by this Arcanist and AM BARBARIAN getting into some kind of contest about who could rip apart an opponent's magic faster.


Glad to hear blood focus is being axed. I'd love for there to be a way for arcane bond to be an option for this class. It is possible with Sorcerer and Wizard (it's possible with Bard too) so it would only make sense to be an option for this class as well.

Shadow Lodge

Robert A Matthews wrote:
Glad to hear blood focus is being axed. I'd love for there to be a way for arcane bond to be an option for this class. It is possible with Sorcerer and Wizard (it's possible with Bard too) so it would only make sense to be an option for this class as well.

Strictly speaking, it's possible for anyone with 13 Charisma.


zimmerwald1915 wrote:
Robert A Matthews wrote:
Glad to hear blood focus is being axed. I'd love for there to be a way for arcane bond to be an option for this class. It is possible with Sorcerer and Wizard (it's possible with Bard too) so it would only make sense to be an option for this class as well.
Strictly speaking, it's possible for anyone with 13 Charisma.

Yes, but I'd prefer an option that doesn't require wasting two feats in order to obtain it.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

Exciting change that makes me much more interested in the class. Immediately lends itself to some character concepts, which is a big improvement over the first draft. The original concept just struck me at window dressing for the spell casting mechanic.


Definitely dotting this. I'm loving the new flavor, and can't wait to see some of the new mechanics.


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zimmerwald1915 wrote:
Come to think of it, I would be greatly amused by this Arcanist and AM BARBARIAN getting into some kind of contest about who could rip apart an opponent's magic faster.

AM LIKE SEE THAT TOO

Sovereign Court

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I really hope the magic item consumption is tied to the gp value of the item rather than caster level or equivalent spell level. I think that would help cut down on the worries over cheap consumables.


The new flavor sounds really fantastic, and like it still occupies that interesting middle ground between wizard and sorcerer, but while having a unique concept and not just doing a mediocre job of being the other two.

That said, it is my hope that the new class has something interesting they can do at first level. The biggest thing I felt was lacking as I started putting together an Arcanist was something *interesting* to do with a new character. Most of the other classes had a flavorful and cool trick, but since things like dispelling and consuming magic sound more in the flavor of higher-level content, hopefully they'll have some kind of neat trick they can pull out of their hat or use these pool-points on even as a new character. :)

Thanks for the good work!

Dark Archive

BAM! Flavour overload. A+, would read again.

Love the sound of it, it keeps the interesting spell mechanics whilst the new powers and abilities really seem both unique and interesting, very much looking forwards to seeing what you guys have and giving it a whirl!


This inspires me to play the class much more than a wizard or sorcerer ever did!


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I like this idea. The flavor is unique..I can't wait to see what comes back. :)


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I just want to applaud the Paizo design team for making such a drastic change for the betterment of the class. The Arcanist now has a solid, flavorful, and unique direction, lending to creative and exciting new builds. You saw immediately the overwhelming and positive response to the change in focus, which is a sign you're going in the right direction.

I'm glad you didn't change the spellcasting mechanic, because I really do think its a new and unique almagamation of the prepared and spontaneous casting sytems. Bravo to Jason and the gang, and I look forward to the next incarnation.

I just want to echo the second poster.

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
This is the "Chosen One" mage that the Avatar, Pug of Crydee and countless other mages are built around.

This is what the arcanist is, a master of all types of magic and magical energies, but specialized in none, other than the ebb and flow of magic itself, whether sorcerer or wizard style magic. I'm very excited to see the new features.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Honestly, I got to say I love the direction the Arcanist is hopefully going in. Just adding my voice to the Positive enthusiasm to this change and to the ACG Playtest in general!


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... You have my attention.

Well, more than just a little. The description of the new approach gave me chills.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

This is a GREAT direction to take the class! Kudos to the designers and to all of us fans that helped nudge them in the right direction!

I just want to take a second to say that THIS RIGHT HERE is why I stick by Paizo. They really understand and believe in their fans, as much as we moan and whine about their choices sometimes. The Paizo team's forward thinking and responsiveness to fan criticisms and praise are what make this a company, and Pathfinder a system, that will last a long time. This is reflected in both the RPG and in the Adventure Card Game that I've come to love so much.

Seriously, thank you guys for being so open with your creative process and so generally awesome!


As a non-caster fan even I am impressed with that concept.

Also, please address the error in the thread title. "Query". As it is it sounds like a quarry query.


sounds like a great place to address counterspelling and a productive way to make it a option for some one


I can't wait to rip this one apart. >:D


Jason Bulmahn wrote:
The arcanist will gain access to a wellspring of magic, an arcane reservoir. Calling upon this reservoir, the arcanist can create magic effects. As the arcanist gains levels, she learns new ways to spend this magic (selecting from a large list of features, like a rogue selects rogue talents).

Sweet, they're using, well, something similar to the idea I suggested. here's hoping it's Cha-based instead of int-based.

Shadow Lodge

much better, previous one was too bland, but this is nice

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

This concept actually reminds me of the Diablo 3 Wizard, the more I think about it. Her magic was fueled by a resource called arcane power, the exact nature of which has always struck me as dangerous and unstable, but undeniably potent.

I'm hoping that the number of stunts available through the use of the arcane reservoir are limited, however, so as not to provide such an overwhelming degree of versatility as to outshine either the sorcerer or the wizard.

The re-purposing of a magic item's energies reminds me of the 3.5 Eberron feat, Cull Wand Essence, which was and remains one of my favorite feats ever printed.

Excited!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

It sounds really cool, but I wouldn't like it at all if the main way of regaining "arcanist points" was draining magic items. It makes for a cool option, but the arcanist should have a more reliable means of replenishing a class feature.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Amaranthine Witch wrote:
It sounds really cool, but I wouldn't like it at all if the main way of regaining "arcanist points" was draining magic items. It makes for a cool option, but the arcanist should have a more reliable means of replenishing a class feature.

From what I gathered, the arcanist will be able to exchange available spell slots for more arcane reservoir.


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How bout something like this:

Spell Theft: An Arcanist who succeeds a spellcraft check to identify a spell as it is being cast may add that spell to the Arcanists' list of prepared spells for a number of hours equal to the Arcanists caster level. The spell must be one on the sorcerer/wizard spell list, and the Arcanist must be of high enough level to cast the stolen spell.

Gives the arcanist a new way of adding spells not seen yet, and gives them ability to be a potentially very strong dispelling class (now you know the spell they're using and have it available to use to counter with). If a Arcanist hurries up they can even take a stab at adding the spell to their spellbook if they're not busy.


This sounds very exciting; I've long wanted to see a class like this- someone who can see the very essence of magic and manipulate it directly- kind of a "spell hacker". Altering and manipulating the "code" of magic cast by others to their own ends.

This isn't quite the same, but it feels similar to what I envisioned, and I'm interested to see what you guys do with it.


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Bravo on the change.

I know your not touching the core spell casting mechanic, but when you're fiddling with the numbers, I'd much rather have a slightly weaker core casting ability in exchange for more impactful class abilities.


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I went from "Arcanist will be interesting to try I suppose, and good training wheels for teaching my new players" to "I MUST PLAY THIS, where can I find a group to play this character in?!"

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

i was talking to a couple people earlier about doing a playtest session with a wizard, a sorcerer, and an arcanist (for side by side comparison) and nobody was enthusiastic about trying the arcanist (all said they would prefer the wizard or sorcerer)... i have a feeling that reading this will change their minds.


Glutton wrote:

How bout something like this:

Spell Theft: An Arcanist who succeeds a spellcraft check to identify a spell as it is being cast may add that spell to the Arcanists' list of prepared spells for a number of hours equal to the Arcanists caster level. The spell must be one on the sorcerer/wizard spell list, and the Arcanist must be of high enough level to cast the stolen spell.

Gives the arcanist a new way of adding spells not seen yet, and gives them ability to be a potentially very strong dispelling class (now you know the spell they're using and have it available to use to counter with). If a Arcanist hurries up they can even take a stab at adding the spell to their spellbook if they're not busy.

That mechanic is very reminiscent of a Direlock ability: using a Spellcraft check to identify and then steal the incoming spell, the energy of which is then added to the spell energy stored in the direlock's dire mantle. This energy can be used for different buffs or to cast spells the direlock knows.

Also, the direlock's allies can charge his dire mantle with spells.

Probably why I like this revised concept version of the Arcanist much better, or at least find it more interesting.

Scarab Sages

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Add me to the bandwagon of "now the Arcanist looks interesting". I'm especially interested to see the limits to what kinds of magic we can tear asunder: Obscuring mist? Bull's Strength? Flesh to Stone? Fireball? Lingering Fireball? Summoned monsters? Undead? Golems? Artifacts? Prismatic Wall? Permanency? Anti-magic field? So many possibilities...

I hope that one of their options is to use their stored reservoir to add a metamagic(s) to their spell(s).

Dibs on front row seats to an Arcanist vs Synthesis Summoner duel


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I have a character in a PbP that is searching for a long lost spell called synthesis strip that peels a synthesist's eidolon off. Definitely would be good for the Arcanist, particularly if he gets to "eat" the resultant spell/maic energy...

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

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Folks,

Thanks for all the kind words and encouragement. Playtesting is always a difficult process, but I am glad that folks like the direction we are taking. And thanks for all the feedback, that is what makes this process work.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer


Jason Bulmahn wrote:
I am glad that folks like the direction we are taking.

I wouldn't be glad just yet. Given the response you've gotten so far you may have an angry mob at your door soon demanding why the revised version hasn't appeared yet. =p

Silver Crusade

The original arcanist was the hybrid that had the least draw for me.

This one bumps that interest up a LOT. :)

Really looking forward to seeing how it works!


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Sounds like this pool would be great for increasing spell durations and dc. maybe it could also be used to decrease the duration of an enemy ongoing effect or make some sort of defensive barrier?

Sounds like the arcanist is really going to be some sort of meta mage.


Really like this new direction!
looking forward to play around with it.

Grand Lodge

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I was interested in the Arcanist before, mainly because none of the existing classes quite hit the right spot for my imaginings of one of my characters.

NOW you have gone and made the concept EXACTLY what I was looking for.

And for the Riftwar fans, the scene that popped immediately to my head when I read the description was when Macros took the little magic hammer and used its magic power to enchant Arutha's sword.

Silver Crusade

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Y'know....Arcanist players are just going to be unbearable with the "turnabout" one-liners. ;)


Culach wrote:
And for the Riftwar fans, the scene that popped immediately to my head when I read the description was when Macros took the little magic hammer and used its magic power to enchant Arutha's sword.

Never read the Riftwar saga, but now that you mention the above image, I thought of something that might be a really interesting fit for retooling of the Arcanist as described by Jason: using the bound magic of magic items in crafting (enchanting different items, or adding abilities to them).

That would be really cool, and might lead to a sort of Artificer archetype that some have been wanting.


Jason Bulmahn wrote:

Hey there folks,

...stuff...
Arcanist
Some spellcasters weave magic into a beautiful tapestry. Others draw upon their innate gift to produce magic. The arcanist takes a different route. Seeing magic for what it really is, the arcanist is able to pull apart magic, ripping the bonds that hold it together and forcing it to obey her will. It is not an easy task, but it allows her to use magic like no other. She can consume her spells, and eventually those of magic items and other spellcasters, to fuel her powers. She can use the raw essence of magic to create powerful effects, both wondrous and deadly.
...Stuff

I hate to sound negative but the nev concept for the arcanist is some one that use magic for somthing powerful, wondrous and deadly?

So now if i want to do wonderous, deadly or fantastic things with magic i will know were to look.
Sorry not impressed. This is still a rules driven class and that is a sad direction for the game.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

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I've participated in every Paizo playtest so far, from the Alpha playtest to the mythic playtest, but I considered skipping this one altogether. For the first time ever, I didn't see anything that inspired me to run a playtest...

Until now!

Jason Bulmahn wrote:
...an arcane spellcaster that focuses on tinkering with the fundamental forces of magic, tearing apart the bonds and forging new ones...

I really like the concept of arcanists who tinker with fundamental forces. Especially ones who can dismantle magic items and forge the magic they once contained into something new.

I seem to recall some empty design space that could be filled by arcanists who tinker with those sorts of things. If I could just remember what it was, I'm sure Paizo could engineer some relevant arcane talents...

...

On a completely unrelated note, how does one pronounce "artificer"?


Well played Eric!


Epic Meepo wrote:
On a completely unrelated note, how does one pronounce "artificer"?

Air-ty-feek-er?


Inspiration could also come from WotC's Spell Weaver.

Dark Archive

I think the new direction will be interesting to see, but personally I liked the idea of a class between sorcerer and wizard. The studious wizard who did have innate power. I think it was just that the abilities didn't support that flavor at the time.

I'll be keeping an eye on how it changes still see if it grows on me.


Epic Meepo wrote:

I've participated in every Paizo playtest so far, from the Alpha playtest to the mythic playtest, but I considered skipping this one altogether. For the first time ever, I didn't see anything that inspired me to run a playtest...

Until now!

Jason Bulmahn wrote:
...an arcane spellcaster that focuses on tinkering with the fundamental forces of magic, tearing apart the bonds and forging new ones...

I really like the concept of arcanists who tinker with fundamental forces. Especially ones who can dismantle magic items and forge their component parts into something new.

I seem to recall some empty design space that could be filled by arcanists who tinker with those sorts of things. If I could just remember what it was, I'm sure Paizo could engineer some relevant arcane talents...

On a completely unrelated note, how does one pronounce "artificer"?

By the Five Nations, now I have to start using arcanists in Eberron games:D

On a completely unrelated* note, a hybrid class that blends articifers and spell weavers would be spectacular.

*using Epic Meepo's apparent definition of 'unrelated'


Two Prestige Points for a "Wand Battery" and nigh infinite pool in PFS/PSOP?


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I feel as though with the new arcanist idea, the class should have access to all arcane spells and choose each day like a cleric but then cast spontaneously. Obviously, the spellcasting needs to be nerfed in some way to compensate this buff, but the new vision of the arcanist does not jive with the idea of having a spellbook and learning new spells by copying down notes from another guy's book.

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