I think the point is saying 'I wouldn't play with you' is never helpful.
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Well, I suppose now's as good a time as any to finally put some actual numbers behind my Bulette Style build. I want to see how it compares.
A note: this build is going up against CMD, not AC. Average monster CMD looks to be 32 compared to the average AC of 24. This ain't gonna be pretty, and my build will suffer for it.
Note: this build will fair MUCH better against groups of lower CR enemies rather than a single high CR opponent, but that's not what this thread is about. This thread is about beating up one really big guy. Let's proceed.
Material used: Core, Advanced Player's Guide, Ultimate Combat, Ultimate Campaign, Ultimate Intrigue, PPC Heroes of the Street, PPC Armor Master's Handbook, Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Gods, PPC Humans of Golarion - links to PFSRD provided on archetypes/traits/feats/rage powers.
Ability Scores:
STR: 22 (+6) (15 base, +1 level, +2 racial, +4 belt)
DEX: 12 (+1)
CON: 14 (+2) (13 base, +1 level)
INT: 10 (0)
WIS: 14 (+2)
CHA: 8 (-1)
HP: 84 HP (4d8+3d10+3d12+30), 104 when raging
Saving Throws:
Fort: +11 (7 base, +2 stat, +2 cloak of resistance), +13 when raging
Ref: +9 (6 base, +1 stat, +2 cloak of resistance)
Will: +10 (6 base, +2 stat, +2 cloak of resistance), +12 when raging
AC: 31 (29 when raging) - Touch 12, Flatfooted 30 (+14 +5 Full Plate, +1 Dex, +4 +2 Heavy Shield, +1 +1 Amulet of Natural Armor, +1 +1 Ring of Protection)
Attacks: +1 armor spikes +17/+11, d6+7 damage (x2 crit)
Special Attacks:
Bull Rush deals STR+2+armor enhancement bludgeoning damage (Breaker Rush) and triggers a free action Overrun attempt. This = 13 damage, or 15 when raging.
Overrun deals STR+2+armor enhancement bludgeoning damage (Breaker Rush), 1d8+1/2 Armor Bonus to AC+1.5xSTR (Bulette Rampage), damage equal to STR (Overbearing Advance), and can be used against multiple foes in a round (at a -2 penalty each time). This = 1d8+35 damage, or 1d8+42 damage when raging.
Spiked Destroyer can be used to get a Swift Action attack with armor spikes during a bull rush after the first round, potentially adding 1d6+7 damage or 1d6+9 damage when raging.
Class Abilities:
Breaker Rush
At 1st level, a siegebreaker can attempt bull rush or overrun combat maneuvers without provoking attacks of opportunity. When he performs either combat maneuver, he deals an amount of bludgeoning damage equal to his Strength bonus (minimum 1). If he has Improved Bull Rush or Improved Overrun, the damage dealt by the appropriate maneuver increases by 2 and he adds any enhancement bonus from his armor or shield (though such enhancement bonuses do not stack, if both armor and shield are magic).
This ability replaces the feat gained at 1st level.
Breaker Momentum:
At 2nd level, when a siegebreaker successfully bull rushes a foe, he can attempt an overrun combat maneuver check against that foe as a free action.
This ability replaces the feat gained at 2nd level.
Rage (+4 STR/CON, +2 Will) 10 rounds/day
Indomitable Stance
An armored hulk gains a +1 bonus on combat maneuver checks and to CMD for overrun combat maneuvers, and on Reflex saves against trample attacks. She also gains a +1 bonus to her AC against charge attacks and on attack and damage rolls against charging creatures.
This ability replaces fast movement.
Overbearing Advance (Rage Power)
Benefit: While raging, the barbarian inflicts damage equal to her Strength bonus whenever she succeeds at an overrun combat maneuver.
Armored Swiftness
At 2nd level, an armored hulk moves faster in medium and heavy armor. When wearing medium or heavy armor, an armored hulk can move 5 feet faster than normal, to a maximum of her speed.
This ability replaces uncanny dodge.
Armor Training 1
Resilience of Steel
At 3rd level, an armored hulk is able to use her armor to help avoid deadly hits. While wearing heavy armor, she gains a +1 bonus to AC that applies only on critical hit confirmation rolls. This bonus increases by +1 every 3 levels beyond 3rd (maximum +6 at 18th level).
This ability replaces trap sense.
And some other crap that frankly doesn't matter for this exercise.
BAB: 10 CMB: +17 (+19 on Bull Rush, +20 on Overrun, +24 on Overrun with Bulette Charge Style activated) CMD: 28 (30 vs. Bull Rush, 31 vs. Overrun)
Traits:
Bred for War (race) - +1 CMB and Intimidate.
Indomitable Faith (faith) - +1 Will Save.
Feats:
Lvl 1 - Power Attack
Human Bonus - Improved Overrun
Vigilante Talent (2) - Bulette Charge Style
Lvl 3 - Bulette Leap
Lvl 5 - Bulette Rampage
Vigilante Talent (4) - Spiked Destroyer
Lvl 7 - Improved Bull Rush
Lvl 9 - Poised Bearing
Skills:
High acrobatics because it's helpful for jumping around the field and tackling the enemy quarterback.
Other skills; who cares?
Gear:
+1 Armor Spikes
+2 Heavy Steel Shield
+5 Full Plate
Belt of Giant's Strength +4
Amulet of Natural Armor +1
Cloak of Resistance +2
Ring of Protection +1
Cracked Green Ioun Stone (+1 competence to attack)
980 GP in miscellaneous consumables, gear, non-portable goods, etc. A masterwork one-handed weapon would be handy for when you can't bull rush.
Overview
Okay, now let's talk tactics.
First, it should be noted that Futbol Pleya can tackle things of up to Huge size already thanks to Poised Bearing. This goes up to Gargantuan if he's Enlarged.
Again, remember that Futbol Pleya is NOT best sent against a single CR10 opponent. He's great at dealing with groups of lower CR opponents. This is not his forte, but he's here already, so let's see what he can do.
At the start of the adventuring day Futbol Pleya grabs his ioun stone and makes it float over his head because of course he would. This impacts his attack and thus his CMB, increasing both by +1.
The Scenario
Futbol Pleya gets onto the field for a fight. He chooses a target that's within charging distance for him (50 feet), squats down into a three-point stance (enters Bulette Charge Style as a swift), activates Rage as a free action, then rushes forward to tackle the sumbish.
The first thing that happens is Futbol Pleya gets to make a Bull Rush attempt against the target. He's charging, so he's getting a +2 bonus to his CMB; he's raging, so another +2. Ergo, he has a +24 on his Bull Rush attempt. That's a 60% chance of success against the average CR 10 enemy, and his damage with Bull Rush is 15. That's 9 average damage a round from Bull Rush. Ew. At least he has a chance of knocking the enemy flying a few squares if he exceeds their CMD by 5 or more.
But now he gets to make a free Overrun attempt. Futbol Pleya has +29 on his Overrun attempt right now, or an 85% chance of hitting his opponent. His Overrun attempt deals 1d8+42 damage, or 46.5 damage on average. Doing a little math, knowing it only triggers when he successfully hits with Bull Rush, we get the following equation: 46.5*(.60*.85)=23.72 (rounded up). 23.72+9=32.72 DPR for the first round.
In the second round Futbol Pleya charges the enemy again. This time he gets a swift action attempt to use his armor spikes. He's raging and has an ioun stone, so he has a +20 to his attack. Notice how despite having invested very little into his armor spikes he's got an 80% chance to hit (versus having dedicated lots of resources to bull rush/overrun and having frankly bad chances to hit). However, he has to actually hit with his bull rush for this to work, so doing math again - 1d6+9 averages to 12.5, 12.5*(.60*.80)=6 extra DPR. So, his DPR against a single enemy right now is... Yeah, 38.72 DPR. Again: ew.
With all that said, this character is certainly playable. According to this table, he's actually got acceptable (green) EDV, his AC is in the green even when raging (and could easily be pushed into blue with a buff or two), his saves are all acceptable (+13 and +12 when raging = green for Fort and Will)... Yeah, he's very playable. He's just not top tier.
Buffing
Now, this is a character that gets TONS of mileage via buffs. I will note two buffs in particular: Heroism and Enlarge person.
Heroism is good because it gives a +2 morale bonus to attack rolls (which you already knew). But in this case that increases Futbol Player's damage considerably because his biggest issue is actually hitting CR 10 monsters with Bull Rush. After all, CMD scales WAY faster than AC (32 CMD vs. 24 AC) and CMB is harder to increase, so a 10% boost to his chances to hit is good.
Enlarge Person only has a minute/level duration, but let's assume for a moment that we're in a group with a caster that has that spell. We drop our Ioun Stone (4000g) to get a Lesser Extend Metamagic Rod (3000g), and we donate that rod to the wizard on one condition: he prepares three casts of Enlarge Person each day, and he uses the Extend Metamagic Rod to cast that spell on Futbol Pleya three times per day as we adventure. That gives us 60 minutes of Enlarge Person, which is perfectly fine for a dungeon crawl. Enlarge Person gives us +2 STR and a +1 (NOT a -1) to our CMB. This equates to more damage and a +5% net gain in chances to hit over someone that's using the Ioun Stone.
Let's crunch our numbers again with those buffs. +15% chance to hit on Bull Rush gives us a 75% hit chance; and we have 95% hit chance with Overrun (we will always miss on a 1) and a 90% hit chance with our armor spikes. Also, our damage has gone up like so: 16 damage with a successful Bull Rush, an average of 49.5 damage with a successful overrun, and an average of 14.5 damage with his armor spikes. Recalculating DPR, we have DPR of 47.27 in the first round and 55.10 in subsequent rounds.
Is this stupendous? No, not really. It doesn't quite reach the Blue mark for our level. But it's fun. Still, let's take a look at one more scenario...
Three Bad Guys
According to the rules on gamemastering, 3 enemies of the same CR = CR+3. So, let's assume we're up against 3 CR 7 enemies instead of 1 CR 10 opponent. Yes, this is a different scenario, but let's try it because this seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to have happen in a game.
Let's do new DPR calculations, this time assuming that Futbol Player is able to tackle multiple enemies at once. Which he can: he has Bulette Leap, so at the least he should be able to hit two enemies at once with good or lucky positioning.
The enemy's CMD is much easier to hit now - it's 26. Assuming we do NOT have Heroism or Enlarge Person and instead must use an Ioun Stone, we have +24 on our Bull Rush attempts. That's a 90% chance to hit. Our damage, as before, is 15 on contact. Follow that up Overrun (+29) with a 95% chance to hit and we also deal our 46.5 damage from before. Our DPR against one of these enemies is thus going to be 53.26.
But now we're tackling a second guy. Our to hit chance is reduced to +22 (80%) and +27 (95%) for Bull Rush and Overrun respectively; thus, we deal an average of 47.34 damage to the second enemy. Add that to the first number and we get 104.60 DPR.
But what if we can somehow hit the third enemy with a bull rush as well? It's certainly possible. The bonuses go down to +20 and +25 (70% and 95%); our DPR against that enemy is 41.42, and our overall DPR for the round is 146.02, over twice the benchmark damage a level 10 character should be dealing in a CR 10 encounter.
You're probably starting to see the pattern here.
The Conclusion
Against an enemy of equal CR, this build is going to feel a little lackluster. However, as the number of enemies increases, so does the effectiveness of this build. In this regard Futbol Pleya up against more traditional fighters feels like the comparison between a wizard focused on single target spells and a wizard focused on area of affect spells (like Fireball); generally speaking, the one focused on single target damage will be more effective against lone big targets, whereas the Fireball specialist will mop up mooks quickly. And I think that's what Futbol Pleya's job is: mook smasher.
In a boss fight, the boss should be accompanied by a number of minions. Futbol Pleya's job should be to mop those up as quickly as possible, knocking them flying across the room (bull rush) and knocking them prone (overrun) with high high CMB. He will fair particularly well in any event that has a literal horde of monsters as the opponent, as he will enjoy using Bulette Leap to crash through their ranks.
The build's defenses would be much better if the character were a dwarf (extra CON and +2 saves vs. spells/SLAs/poison), and his DPR would only drop slightly (2 less strength, equivalent CMB). However, his feat gain would be reduced; whether or not that is worth it depends on the player.
This character would probably also fair better against NPCs than against monsters. He would be very fun against enemy spellcasters at level 11 (he could grab Rhino Charge and ready a charge for when the enemy spellcaster casts a spell), for instance. And in general I doubt NPCs get CMD that scales as quickly as monster CMD does.
Another note: Futbol Player gets the Knockback rage power at level 11, allowing him to smack people adjacent to them and hit them with Knockback. This is super useful, since it means he doesn't have to charge all the time, and he can make this attack in place of an attack in his full attack routine (so, his first attack). This would still allow him a chance to smack someone with his spiked armor or masterwork weapon, too.
Finally, Futbol Player gets much more interesting at later levels because he gets the Shield Slam line of feats, meaning once he Bull Rushes someone into a wall he can repeatedly smack them with his shield, getting free, constant bull rush and overrun attempts against them. At that point he'll be investing in highly-enchanted magical shield spikes so his attack roll can be as high as it can be. His tactics will thus vary between tackling people, punching them in the gut at point blank to send them flying, or slamming them against a wall repeatedly with his shield for fun.
At later levels Futbol Player will also be able to attempt Bull Rush and Overrun against anything with Enlarge Person cast on him. I do mean quite literally any size of creature: when Large he'll count as Gargantuan, and thus he'll be able to tackle Colossal creatures. That's just awesome. Of course, the CMD of a Colossal creature is liable to be pretty darned hard to beat, but hopefully he can receive buffs from his party to make it work. And at higher levels his favorite tactic will be the aforementioned slam-them-into-a-wall-repeatedly tactic, and by then he'll just need to focus on boosting his attack bonus with his shield so he can maximize his potential bull rushes and overruns in a given turn.
I like this character.
Also as an aside: I actually find that most encounters in the campaigns I've been a player in involve multiple opponents. Generally speaking, a single opponent is just too easy to mop the floor with for a party of characters (thanks to the action economy favoring more bodies on the field). Ergo, most GMs will make sure the dragon has kobold minions, or that the evil cleric has some zombies protecting him, or that there's a pack of wolves instead of a single dire wolf.
Still, when you DO fight the one big monster, you need to be able to wipe the floor with it. As much as I like Futbol Pleya, that's just not what he does. Oh well.
(And he wouldn't be called Futbol Pleya in a real game but I just love the image of this huge football player in spiky football gear tackling a gosh darned dragon for some reason.)
How come you took vigilante levels? Maybe I missed something in the build, but I like any bullrush/overrun build!
Siegebreaker loses feats. Vigilante gives combat feats for the Avenger version of Vigilante. Ergo, to get my bonus feats I went Vigilante.
I originally built this to use Rogue levels instead of Vigilante levels but realized this doesn't actually work since Rogue only gets Combat Trick once.
Something I'm considering due to a recent revelation: you can take 2 levels of Ranger to get Shield Slam early on and just NOT take Spiked Destroyer. Doing so means you have to wear Mithral Full Plate, reducing your bonus from Bulette Charge Style from +1 to +4, but you get the option to make 2 two-handed attacks with your shield early on along with 2 bull rush attempts and 2 overrun attempts. That increases DPR by... uh, a lot. You'd need Improved Shield Bash to make it work right unless you don't care about the shield bonus to AC. I think getting the Training enchantment on your shield spikes for the Improved Shield Bash feat would actually be a rather good choice. Alternatively, we could just delay Poised Bearing until level 11, but I frankly hate that idea.
Chances are this means a level-up scheme of Vigilante/Vigilante/Siegebreaker/Siegebreaker/Ranger/Ranger/Armored Hulk/Armored Hulk/Siegebreaker/Armored Hulk.
I'll do the math later. I gotta go to sleep.
EDIT: Actually, what about for a level 11 build Vigilante/Vigilante/Siegebreaker/Siegebreaker/Ranger/Ranger/Armored Hulk/Armored Hulk/Siegebreaker/Brawler/Brawler? Shields are in the close weapon category, right? So you can use Brawler's Flurry to get an extra attack with your shield at level 11. With 3 attacks baseline, another attack from Flurry, and an attack from Haste, you're looking at 5 shield bashes with 5 bull rushes and 5 overruns in a single turn once you've gotten someone's back up against a wall and are standing in their face. Discount the Haste and that's still 4 attacks/bull rushes/overruns.
Rude, yeah?
Ah, sounds nice! =) although you could just take more fighter levels and get all the weapon training/armor training shenanigans.
Yeah, you only need two more fighter levels for that. I'm honestly thinking that the goal would be to get 2 more Siegebreaker levels at levels 12 and 13 (getting Step Up as a bonus feat because you have to pick that or Disruptive). For our DPR level 10 Olympics that doesn't matter much, but that does open up those gloves that grant +2 weapon training and those weapon training feats.
But I sincerely think that 2 levels of Brawler would make this build shine. I suppose you could always take the last two levels of Siegebreaker before you take Brawler, but I love the idea of even more attempts at shield slam.
mr Zack the Frog
Race: Grippli
Rogue4(A:Sharper, unchained) / Barbarian1(A:Urban) / Fighter5(A:Lore Warden)** spoiler omitted **...
I just realized you said Weapon Focus (Kukri) replaced a rogue trick, but I don't see where you gain any rogue tricks. If you meant Rogue Talents, you replaced all of them with Sharper archetype abilities. Can you justify this? If not, it looks like the build currently has 2 illegal feats (Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization)
How come you took vigilante levels? Maybe I missed something in the build, but I like any bullrush/overrun build!Siegebreaker loses feats. Vigilante gives combat feats for the Avenger version of Vigilante. Ergo, to get my bonus feats I went Vigilante.
I originally built this to use Rogue levels instead of Vigilante levels but realized this doesn't actually work since Rogue only gets Combat Trick once.
FWIW there's at least one rogue archetype (swashbuckler) which can take combat trick twice.
FWIW there's at least one rogue archetype (swashbuckler) which can take combat trick twice.How come you took vigilante levels? Maybe I missed something in the build, but I like any bullrush/overrun build!Siegebreaker loses feats. Vigilante gives combat feats for the Avenger version of Vigilante. Ergo, to get my bonus feats I went Vigilante.
I originally built this to use Rogue levels instead of Vigilante levels but realized this doesn't actually work since Rogue only gets Combat Trick once.
That's good to know. I notice that it loses trapfinding, so that stinks, but if Vigilante is not allowed at the table then at least Rogue is available. Losing that 1 BAB actually hurts a lot though.
I learned that the Scout archetype + Spiked Destroyer thing doesn't work out anyway, so getting Shield Slam earlier > Rogue for this build.
BTW, I need to go to work and so can't do the full crunch yet, but Futbol Pleya take 2 would look something like this...
Human Brawler 3 / Fighter (Siegebreaker) 3 / Ranger (Trapper) 2 / Barbarian (Armored Hulk) 2
Brw1 1) Power Attack, Improved Overrun, Martial Flexibility
Brw2 2) Improved Shield Bash (improves our defenses, so qualifies for the Brawler's Bonus Combat Feat), Brawler's Flurry
Sie1 3) Bulette Charge Style, Breaker Rush
Sie2 4) Armored Vigor, Breaker Momentum
Rgr1 5) Bulette Leap, Trapfinding
Rgr2 6) Shield Slam (Medium armor only)
Brb1 7) Rage, Bulette Rampage
Brb2 8) Overbearing Advance, Armored Swiftness
Sie3 9) Improved Bull Rush, Armor Training 1 (We can use Martial Flexibility to gain Poised Bearing when we need it now)
Brw3 10) Maneuver Training (Overrun)
As far as items go, we're looking at having to pay an extra 9k gold for the Mithral quality on our armor. We REALLY want the +5 armor if possible, but it's much more feasible for us to be using +4 Mithral Full Plate instead. This gets us the gold we need, but our damage dealt suffers slightly for it (but only slightly).
For weapons, we'll ditch the +1 spiked armor and reduce our Heavy Shield to a +1 Heavy Shield. This gets us 5000 gold. This still isn't enough, so we'll have to reduce our Cloak of Resistance to a +1 to get 8000 gold. Finally, we have enough to get +2 Shield Spikes. This should make us a little more likely to succeed at attacking and bull rushing once we've engaged someone in melee.
Our CMB with Overrun has dropped by 2. It would have dropped by 3, but we took a third level of Brawler to get +1 CMB for it.
Levels 11-14 should be Siegebreaker Fighter, giving us Step up at level 11, Weapon Training at level 12, and a bonus feat at level 14. 15-18 can be levels of Unchained Swashbuckler Rogue, getting us two bonus feats.
We'll want 14 starting DEX rather than 12 because with Mithral Full Plate and Armor Training 1 we can have +4 AC from DEX when under the effects of a Belt that grants DEX and STR, or when under the effects of a cat's grace spell.
Tactics change to this:
1. When faced with a large group of foes, use Bull Rush > Overrun as before.
2. When faced with a single foe that is not in melee range, Charge him; attack with Shield Slam; trigger Bull Rush; trigger Overrun.
3. When faced with a single foe in melee range, swing at him with your full attack Shield Slam, triggering bull rushes and overruns for each success.
The goal is to boost your AB as much as possible on your shield slam, so you won't be using Power Attack unless you KNOW you can hit the enemy.
Here's take 2 on the previous build. I decided to rename him because why not? He's using a shield as his primary weapon instead of his body so he's not really a football player anymore.
Material used: Core, Advanced Player's Guide, Ultimate Combat, Ultimate Campaign, Ultimate Intrigue, PPC Heroes of the Street, PPC Armor Master's Handbook, Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Gods, PPC Humans of Golarion - links to PFSRD provided on archetypes/traits/feats/rage powers.
Ability Scores:
STR: 22 (+6) (15 base, +1 level, +2 racial, +4 belt)
DEX: 12 (+1)
CON: 14 (+2) (13 base, +1 level)
INT: 10 (0)
WIS: 14 (+2)
CHA: 8 (-1)
HP: 91 HP (8d10+2d12+30), 107 when raging - I forgot the first level is max HP
Saving Throws:
Fort: +16 (12 base, +2 stat, +2 cloak of resistance), +18 when raging
Ref: +10 (7 base, +1 stat, +2 cloak of resistance)
Will: +6 (2 base, +2 stat, +2 cloak of resistance, +1 trait), +8 when raging
AC: 30 (28 when raging) - Touch 12, Flatfooted 29 (+13 +4 Mithral Full Plate, +1 Dex, +4 +2 Heavy Shield, +1 +1 Amulet of Natural Armor, +1 +1 Ring of Protection)
Attacks: +1 spiked shield +17/+11, 1d6+10 (two-handed)
Special Attacks:
Shield bashes trigger Shield Slam, allowing a free Bull rush attempt.
Bull Rush deals STR+2+armor enhancement bludgeoning damage (Breaker Rush) and triggers a free action Overrun attempt. This = 13 damage, or 15 when raging.
Overrun deals STR+2+armor enhancement bludgeoning damage (Breaker Rush), 1d8+1/2 Armor Bonus to AC+1.5xSTR (Bulette Rampage), damage equal to STR (Overbearing Advance), and can be used against multiple foes in a round (at a -2 penalty each time). This = 1d8+35 damage, or 1d8+42 damage when raging.
Class Abilities:
Martial Flexibility (move action get a combat feat you qualify for, lasts 1 minute, 4 times/day)
Brawler's Flurry (TWF with a single weapon)
Breaker Rush:
At 1st level, a siegebreaker can attempt bull rush or overrun combat maneuvers without provoking attacks of opportunity. When he performs either combat maneuver, he deals an amount of bludgeoning damage equal to his Strength bonus (minimum 1). If he has Improved Bull Rush or Improved Overrun, the damage dealt by the appropriate maneuver increases by 2 and he adds any enhancement bonus from his armor or shield (though such enhancement bonuses do not stack, if both armor and shield are magic).
This ability replaces the feat gained at 1st level.
Breaker Momentum:
At 2nd level, when a siegebreaker successfully bull rushes a foe, he can attempt an overrun combat maneuver check against that foe as a free action.
This ability replaces the feat gained at 2nd level.
Rage (+4 STR/CON, +2 Will) 10 rounds/day)
Indomitable Stance:
An armored hulk gains a +1 bonus on combat maneuver checks and to CMD for overrun combat maneuvers, and on Reflex saves against trample attacks. She also gains a +1 bonus to her AC against charge attacks and on attack and damage rolls against charging creatures.
This ability replaces fast movement.
Benefit: While raging, the barbarian inflicts damage equal to her Strength bonus whenever she succeeds at an overrun combat maneuver.
Armored Swiftness (+5 movement speed in medium or heavy armor)
Armor Training 1
Resilience of Steel (+1 AC vs. confirmation rolls when wearing heavy armor)
Maneuver Training (Overrun) (+1 CMB/CMD for Overrun)
And more crap that doesn't really matter.
BAB: 10 CMB: +17 (+19 on Bull Rush, +21 on Overrun, +22 on Overrun with Bulette Charge Style activated) CMD: 28 (30 vs. Bull Rush, 32 vs. Overrun)
Feats:
Lvl 1 - Power Attack
Human Bonus - Improved Overrun
Brawler Bonus Combat Feat - Improved Shield Bash
Lvl 3 - Bulette Charge Style
Lvl 5 - Bulette Leap
Ranger Combat Style - Shield Slam (must be wearing medium armor)
Lvl 7 - Bulette Rampage
Lvl 9 - Improved Bull Rush
Skills:
High acrobatics because it's helpful for jumping around the field and tackling the enemy quarterback.
Perception and Disable Device because he has Trapfinding and can actually serve as the party trap monkey.
Other skills; who cares?
Gear:
+1 Shield Spikes
+2 Heavy Steel Shield
+4 Mithral Full Plate
Belt of Giant's Strength +4
Amulet of Natural Armor +1
Cloak of Resistance +2
Ring of Protection +1
Cracked Green Ioun Stone (+1 competence to attack)
1020 GP in miscellaneous consumables, gear, non-portable goods, etc. A masterwork one-handed weapon would be handy for when you can't bull rush.
I don't like that our Will Save is now only +8 (still passing the defense requirements for this thread), and only when raging. If I were using Point Buy I'd probably find a way to boost my DEX, too, so we have better AC. But it is what it is.
Okay. Math muscles flex time. Here we go:
Scenario 1: Biggie wins initiative and must charge a distant enemy.
Round 1: Charge stuff like before. We use Shield Slam this time, and we get a free action bull rush against the enemy if we succeed, and then a free action overrun, so we can actually shove the enemy up against a wall by using a standard Charge attack.
We're raging, we're using our Ioun stone, and we've got a charge bonus on our attack. We have +22 to attack, a 90% success rate on our hit with our two-handed shield slam. An average of 16.5 damage is dealt. Our DPR so far is 14.85.
Shield Slam triggers our Bull Rush, which has a +23 bonus as it benefits from Improved Bull Rush but NOT from our weapon enhancement bonus (5% less hit chance than in the previous build). It deals 14 damage (not 15 like before). DPR: 14.85+(14(.9*.55))=21.78.
Finally, our Overrun is rolled at +25 (it doesn't actually get the +2 from charging), a 65% hit chance. It deals an average of 44.5 damage (2 less than the previous build - that'll change when we make our armor +5 again). DPR: 21.78+(44.5(.9*.55*.65))=36.10 DPR. Notice that we actually have higher first round DPR than the previous build.
Enemy Turn: The enemy provokes an AoO as it tries to stand up. It's prone, so we get +4 to the attack. +24 attack for shield bash (95% chance); 15.68 DPR. Free Bull Rush attempt, 65% chance to succeed; 15.68+(14(.8*.55))=24.33 DPR. Free Overrun attempt, 85% chance to succeed; 24.33+(44.5(.95*.65*.85))=47.68 DPR.
47.68+36.10=83.78 DPR for the first round.
Round 2: SHIELD SLAM TIME! But I actually don't have time to finish writing this; I gotta go to work. I'll do this after work. It'll take a while.
Scenario 2: Enemy creature wins initiative and makes a melee attack against Biggie in the first round. Biggie's turn is next.
See above - I gotta go to work, but expect the DPR for this to be... uh, probably pretty good.
Isn't MacEntyre supposed to be MacIntyre?
At least that is how my grandfather spelled it.Or, what Pun did I miss?
You're Entyrely correct. I'm just a dumb butt. The pun was calling him Biggie Mac, a double joke to myself about him being a big burger (Big Mac) and being Biggie Smalls (the rapper). No, I am not a smart man.
Working on my next post relating to Biggie MacIntyre now.
Here goes. Warning: the math gets SERIOUS down below.
I did my math in a way that's NOT in my favor. If you have a +23 to attack and the enemy's CMD is 32, you succeed on a 9 or higher - a 60% chance of success, not 55. Likewise, a +25 hits in a 7 or higher - a 70% chance of success, not 65. And if I have +22 and attack an AC 24 creature, I only miss on a 1.
Ergo, I need to recalculate. I gave myself an extra 5% miss chance across the board I wasn't supposed to have.
In Scenario 1, we're assuming that there is a wall we can bull rush / overrun the enemy into, or perhaps a tree or similar obstacle. I don't know if I made that clear, but the idea is we're trying to put a solid surface behind the enemy. You're about to see why.
Our DPR for out attack of opportunity is actually too high. We have an 60% chance of actually hitting with Shield Slam (Bull Rush) on our turn, right? And Shield Slam is what's actually providing the Prone condition, which is how we're getting an attack of opportunity in the first place. Therefore, what we need to do is calculate our DPR for the Attack of Opportunity and then multiply it by .60*.95 to get our DPR for the AoO (since it might not trigger at all).
Anyway, here's the edited version of my old post:
Scenario 1: Biggie wins initiative and must charge a distant enemy.
Round 1: Charge stuff like before. We use Shield Slam this time, and we get a free action bull rush against the enemy if we succeed, and then a free action overrun, so we can actually shove the enemy up against a wall by using a standard Charge attack.
We're raging, we're using our Ioun stone, and we've got a charge bonus on our attack. We have +22 to attack, a 95% success rate on our hit with our two-handed shield slam. An average of 16.5 damage is dealt. Our DPR so far is 15.68.
Shield Slam triggers our Bull Rush, which has a +23 bonus as it benefits from Improved Bull Rush but NOT from our weapon enhancement bonus (60% chance to hit). It deals 14 damage (not 15 like before). DPR: 15.68+(14(.95*.60))=23.66
Finally, our Overrun is rolled at +25 (it doesn't actually get the +2 from charging), a 70% hit chance. It deals an average of 44.5 damage (2 less than the previous build - that'll change when we make our armor +5 again). DPR: 23.66+(44.5(.95*.60*.70))=41.42 DPR. Notice that we actually have higher first round DPR than the previous build.
Enemy Turn: If the enemy was knocked prone (.95*.60=57% chance) last round, it will try to stand up. Otherwise, it behaves normally.
The enemy provokes an AoO as it tries to stand up. It's prone, so we get +4 to the attack. +24 attack for shield bash (95% chance); 15.68 DPR. Free Bull Rush attempt (+25), 70% chance to succeed; 15.68+(14(.95*.70))=24.99 DPR. Free Overrun attempt, 90% chance to succeed; 24.99+(44.5(.95*.70*.90))=51.62 DPR.
51.62(.57)+41.42=70.84 DPR for the first round.
We can finally go to Round 2 of Scenario 1.
Scenario 1 - Round Two
Previously, we forced our enemy up against a solid surface, knocked him prone, and smacked him a few times for good measure. Now it's time to lay the smackdown.
Presently, Biggie MacIntyre is standing directly in front of the enemy (who is no longer prone because they used their second action to stand up after we knocked them prone even if we DID successfully AoO them). Biggie Mac is going to take the full attack action against his opponent, using Brawler's Flurry to get 3 attacks with his spiked shield. This incurs a -2 penalty to all his attacks for this round - but notably not for the overruns. Let's begin.
Attack #1: Raging + Ioun Stone, enemy not prone, not charging. Don't forget flurry! So, our AB is +18, meaning we have an 75% chance of hitting with our shield bash. .75*16.5=12.38. Bull Rush = +19, 40% chance to hit, 12.38+(14(.75*.4)=16.58.
At this point, we get a free overrun, assuming we've succeeded on our shield bash and bull rush. But note that our enemy should be prone (from hitting them into a wall with shield slam), so we're going to factor in a +4 bonus to our CMB for this.
So, our CMB for Overrun is +29 (remember, enemy = prone). This means we only fail on a 1 or 2 - 90% success rate. 44.5(.75*.40*.90)=12.02. 12.02+16.58=28.60.
...and we get two more series of attacks to go. Now, if we knocked our enemies prone before, we'd have gotten +20% chance to hit. But there's a chance we didn't - our overall chances of having actually knocked the enemy prone this round are .75*.4=.3, a 30% chance of success. So, .2*.3=.06. Ergo, we effectively can add 6% to our "to hit" for our attack and bull rush for the second wave of attacks.
Since this is a flurry, our AB is the same as before, but now we factor in that 6%. So, 81% chance to hit with bash: .81*16.5=13.37. 46% bull rush: 14(.81*.46)=5.22. We add 20% to overrun INSTEAD OF the +6. 44.5(.81*.46*.90)=14.92. So, for the second string of attacks we have a total of 14.92+5.22+13.37=33.51 damage.
Our third string (let's call it string C) in our flurry occurs. Now, I could get even MORE mathematical at this point; the attack and bull rush of the third string can get a 20% increase in to hit from either the Bull Rush in string A or the Bull Rush in string B. However, I will just hope a real mathematician comes by and does that for me, or someone with way too much time on their hands. The point being: I'm only going to add 6%, not whatever extra %chance may occur due to string B happening.
Ah, to Hell with it. Okay: we already know we have an effective 6% bonus from the first string. The likelihood of the second string granting Prone depends on the first string NOT granting prone, so .7. .7*.2*.3=.042, or 4.2%. 6+4.2=10.2%. Our third string has a +10.2% greater chance of hitting due to prone effects. Let's just make that a nice, clean 10%.
Anyway, string C begins. It's got -5 less attack than the previous string - 25% less chance to hit than the previous string. 60% chance of hitting with Shield Bash: 16.5(.6)=9.9. Bull rush, 20% chance: 14(.6*.2)=1.68. Overrun, however, is STILL a +29 because it's a free action triggered by Bull Rush; ergo, 44.5(.6*.2*.9)=4.81. 9.9+1.68+4.81=16.39.
For our three strings: 28.60+33.51+16.39=78.50 DPR so far.
Does the enemy stand up from being prone? Well, it has to be prone first. Let's calculate that:
The chance of the enemy being knocked prone from the first string is .75*.4=.3, 30%. Its likelihood of being knocked prone from the second string requires the enemy NOT be knocked down by the first, so: .7*.75*.4=.21, or 21%; so that's 30+21=51% so far. Third string requires no being knocked prone in either of the previous strings. So: .7*.7*.51*.16=.04, or 4% (correct me if I'm wrong). Add that to 51 and we have a 55% chance of the enemy being prone during its turn.
As before: enemy stands up, shield slam attempt happens, free bull rush and overrun trigger, and we add 51.62 average damage. Multiply that by .55 and we get 28.39 DPR for the AoO.
78.50+28.39=106.89.
Our total DPR for Round 2 is 106.89. Our average DPR for the two rounds is 88.87.
Okay, you get the gist of things by now.
Now, like father like son: Biggie MacIntyre does way more damage to groups of enemies than to single targets. But he can focus down a single target much better than his old man (Futbol Pleya) can, and since he triggers free overruns and bull rushes AND has Bulette Leap he can effectively trample through a whole line of enemies with his shield bashing shenanigans.
Another note: he won't have the same Round 2 damage if there are no obstacles to pummel enemies into. Instead, he'd simply repeat his Round 1 damage as he bowls a path through enemies. Really, the only way to seriously cramp his DPR as a melee monster is to get in his face but NOT have your back anywhere near something resembling a wall.
Biggie MacIntyre probably won't measure up to true DPR kings in single target combat, but I think he's fun, flavorful, and fills a very special role on the battlefield: that of a bowling ball in a field full of pins.
EDIT: Some fun ways to boost his DPR after level 10...
1. Merciless Rush is a feat for worshipers of Rovagug that lets you add damage equal to your strength to targets whose CMD you exceed by five or more with Bull Rush. That adds more damage, albeit you have to hit 'em real good.
2. Get your darned armor to be +5 ASAP.
3. Buffs. Enlarge Person, Heroism, Inspire Courage - GET THEM.
4. Combat Reflexes.
5. Enchant your darned shield spikes more.
6. Take another couple barbarian levels later and make sure to grab Knockback so you can use Bull Rush without having to use Shield Slam. That might save your life one day, such as when you're stripped of all your gear.
7. Obviously get Poised Bearing and Imposing Bearing later. You'll need those to beat up REALLY big monsters.
EDIT 2: I dunno if I have the math energy to do Scenario 2 right now. I've had my fun.
EDIT 3: Shorted myself by 5% on the third string. Cleaning up my math. Also decided to go ahead and take the time to calculate the actual %bonus from potential proneness for the third string. I apparently needed more fun with math.
EDIT 4: Would you believe that in high school I HATED math and that I only started enjoying it when I got into Statistics in college?
EDIT 5: I'm by no means a math expert, so if someone wants to correct my work please do so.
EDIT 6: If someone is curious about how I'd arrange point buy if point buy were used (assuming the goal is maximum efficiency and not roleplay value:
15 Point Buy: 17/12/14/8/14/8
20 Point Buy: 19/13/14/8/14/7
25 Point Buy: 19/14/14/7/16/7
The 25 point buy setup gives you solid defenses and lets you wear a belt with +4 STR/CON/DEX and still get your max possible AC in Mithral Full Plate with Armor Training.
If I were playing a dwarf for their kickass racials AND wanted to preserve some RP value...
15 Point Buy: 15/12/16/8/16/6
20 Point Buy: 17/11/16/8/16/6
25 Point Buy: 17/14/16/9/16/6
This gives you a tough, hardy dwarf with a strong will and whose best method of expression is getting mad and smashing people.
I may have to redo my math AGAIN.
If Darksol is right, you actually use the exact same dice roll result you got from your Shield Bash when doing your free Bull Rush attempt from Shield Slam. And the more I look at it, the more I think he IS right.
I think this actually INCREASES our likelihood of success with Bull Rush, since it means we don't risk rolling a 1 (natural failure), and instead can only get results higher than 1. I'll work this out later.
I may have to redo my math AGAIN.
If Darksol is right, you actually use the exact same dice roll result you got from your Shield Bash when doing your free Bull Rush attempt from Shield Slam. And the more I look at it, the more I think he IS right.
I think this actually INCREASES our likelihood of success with Bull Rush, since it means we don't risk rolling a 1 (natural failure), and instead can only get results higher than 1. I'll work this out later.
Darksol is correct. I'm also fairly certain that you add Bull rush specific modifiers to the roll as well.
This also means that your Bull Rush will be successful more often than if you rolled separately, due to lower variance.
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I've been working out a character like this, but took the ranger/slayer route. IIRC (I'm on campus and the file is on my home computer), the build is something like:
2 slayer (Get shield slam asap)
2 siege breaker (STR to bull rush dmg)
4 slayer (Get shield master early, as well as a bonus combat feat via rogue talent)
1 Barbarian (Rage class feature for raging throw)
3 Fighter (Weapon mastery = gloves of dueling)
The idea is TWF with shields and bullrushing. The only thing I've been trying to resolve is how to move with enemies that I bull rush, I don't want to knock them away from me. While it is homebrew, my DM is fine with a dwarf picking up the Stone Shield spell (with an appropriate class dip) and casting it as I bull rush someone so that I bull rush them into a wall of stone (He likes the rule of cool). But he's going to be for PFS :(.
MacIntyre is really gonna want a +5 Furious Dueling Weapon & a Bane Baldric at some point in the future. Great for CMB checks. Could even get a Tempest Shield for even more bull rush attempts.
Is there an easy way to find the current winner? like a google doc or something?
Ahn hello fellow roll or role players, i´m kinda new to the forum so forgive any mistakes, also english is not my main language so no grammatical Nazisms please :).
Going forward to the build i bring to this thread the following:
Material Used: Core, Advanced Class Guide Classic and Monsters Revisited (Minotaur Crossbow).
Ability Scores:
STR:10 +0
DEX:22 +6 (+2 from Human, +1 from level,+4 from belt)
CON:14 +2
INT:12 +1
WIS:14 +2 (+1 from level)
CHA:8 -1
HP:84(10d10+20)
Saving Throws:
Fort: +12 Ref: +13 Will: +6
AC: 23 - Touch 17, Flatfooted 16 (+1 Dodge, +6 Mithral Shirt +1)
Attacks:(Note:I will calculate the attacks with and without the Sharp Shoot deed which enables to aim at Touch AC*).
*Touch AC taken from: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/unchained-rules/simple-mo nster-creation/
Normal Full Round with Hammer the Gap +20/+15, 1d8+10 (17-20/x3), 1d8 +11 (Non critable), 1d8+12 (17-20/x3) and 1d8 +13 (Non critable).
DPR: AC24 ->70,735/TOUCH AC15 ->80,12.
Maximun Full Round with Hammer the Gap, Rapid Shoot, Deadly Aim and Haste (DPR)* : +16/+16/+16/+11, 1d8+16 (17-20/x3), 1d8 +17 (Non critable), 1d8+18 (17-20/x3) and 1d8 +19 (Non critable), 1d8+20 (17-20/x3) and 1d8 +21 (Non critable), 1d8+22 (17-20/x3) and 1d8 +23 (Non critable).
->DPR - AC24: 179,76 TOUCH AC 15: 223,04.
*First attack is against normal AC as he lack Grit points.
Class Abilities:
Crossbow Maven - For starting with a masterwork Minotaur Double Crossbow.
Nimble - +1 dodge bonus while on light armor.
Grit - 2 points from stat and +1 from favored class bonus totaling 3.
Deeds - Sharp Shoot,Gunslinger Initiative, Gunslinger’s Dodge,Vigilant Loading,Shooter’s Resolve and Pistol-Whip.
Crossbow Training - Minotaur Double Crossbow.
Bravery.
Armor Training.
Weapon Training - Crossbows.
BAB: +10 CMB: +10 CMD: 26.
Feats - 1 Human + 4 Bonus Fighter/Gunslinger + 5 Levels.
Point Blank Shoot
Rapid Shoot
Rapid Reload (Mino Double Crossbow)
Crossbow Mastery
Weapon Focus (Mino Double Crossbow)
Deadly Aim
Precise Shoot
Hammer The Gap
Martial Focus
Skills:
+15 Perception, +16 Stealth others are optional.
Gear:
One +2 Mino Double Crossbow (8000 GP)
One +1 Mithral Shirt (2100 GP)
Belt of Dex +4 (16000 GP)
Cloak of Resistance +2 (4000GP)
Handy Haversack (2000 GP)
Gloves of Dueling (16000 GP)
Boots of Speed (12000 GP)
The 1900 GP Leftovers are spent on common items.
Any opinions,critics and ideas are welcome.
Firstly Good night, and moving foward to the answer the Mino double crossbow as seen on Classic Monsters Revisited lacks the normal double crossbow clause that limits it from being reloaded as a free action, besides having a lower use penalty at -2 instead of the normal -4, so The feat Crossbow Mastery saying of reloading as free action permits to reload it as free action granting the full round attacking descibred on my post, or at least the PFS groups with which i play and played along agreed that this os the right interpretation of it.
Take a peek at the first page of this thread. There are actually a few conditions to stop ridiculously overspecialised characters being compared to those with some minimal defences.
Fort +8 total
Will +8 total
AC 22
Neither Mr MB nor Morty meet the Will save requirement.
I guess that with Auspicious Tattoo and Indomitable Faith traits would validate Mr MB, forgot to add them to the build :/.
Also i´ve wondered if substituting the Belt +4 for a +2 and adding a helmet of cyclops together with a bracer of falcon aim would have positive effect on the DPR...
And also why no one uses this amazing item (Cyclops Helm)?
From a straight DPR a guaranteed Hit/possible Critical is not very valuable for 5600 GP?
The cyclops helm is good. Maybe too good - it's banned in PFS.
For the purposes of this thread it has another problem, being a once per day item. IIRC the errated version of bracers of falcons aim is the same. Consumables and per day items aren't in for the DPR Summer Olympics.
Edit: both those traits give a +1 trait bonus, which doesn't stack. You're almost there but not quite.
Ah it seemed to be too good to be true XD, Hum then i guess i´d Swap one of these 2 traits for reactionary or maybe killer..
Also dropping the +2 weapon for a +1 and getting a Headband of Wis +2 would solve the will save problem i guess and also would leave Mr MB with a 3900 gold surplus.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Shout out to the DPR-ers.
There are still tickets available for the 12th level (PFS legal builds) PVP Battle Arena.
If you are interested in playing player vs player PVP at GenCon, get a ticket while they last!
"Player vs player PVP"? What other kind of PVP is there? :-)
Bladelocks: LONGBLADE
Traits:
Heirloom Weapon(Trip+2), Carefully Hiddent(+1 will Save)
human lvls enhancement size mutagen
Str 15(26) 2 1 2 2 4
Dex 13(14) 1
Con 10
Int 12
Wis 14
Char 8
lvl
1 Brawler (Mutation Mauler)
Feats: Wpn F., Endurance
Class Ability: Mutagen
2 fighter(2 Handed Fighter)
Feats:Power Attack
3 fighter(2 Handed Fighter)
Feats: Divine Fighting Technique:GS Battler, Iron Will
4 fighter(2 Handed Fighter)
5 fighter(2 Handed Fighter)
Feats: Imp Trip,Furious Focus
6 fighter(2 Handed Fighter)
Class Abiltity: Weapon Training +1
7 fighter(2 Handed Fighter)
Feats:Grt.Trip, Felling Smash
8 Brawler (Mutation Mauler)
Feats: Vital Strike,
9 Prestige Class Living Monolith
Feats: Improved Crit
10 Prestige Class Living Monolith
Equipment
GS+1 Impact (Heirloom) 18350
Dueling Gloves 15000
Belt G.Str +2 4000
amulet nat ac+1 2000
handy Haversack 2000
Cloak of resist+2 4000
Breast Plate+2 4500
ring of Prot +1 2000
Thorny Brown Iuon Stone 8000
59,850 Total
G.sword+1 Impact avg 15, Vital strike +14 , Strength 1st attack +16, Weapon Training +3, P.Att +9 = Total 57. Second attack after Fell Smash is 53.
ToHit 23 against AC24
BAB10 + 1Enhancement + 8str +3wpn Training, -0 1st P. Att, +1Wpn Focus, -1size
Felling Smash 28CMB vs 33CMD
-3 PA, +2 Heirloom, +4 Trip feats, +2 Ioun
AoO (20tohit +4 vs prone)=24 vs AC 24
DPR=104.49
This build is very mobile and and can do full damage after a move or a charge. The build will also have its swift action.
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Shout out to the DPR-ers.
There are still tickets available for the 12th level (PFS legal builds) PVP Battle Arena.
If you are interested in playing player vs player PVP at GenCon, get a ticket while they last!
HOW DID I STUMBLE ACROSS THIS THREAD ONLY AFTER GENCON?!?
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Ok, these are my first attempts. I don't even come close to some of what I have seen on this thread, but I think it is interesting that the swashbuckler beats the warpriest of Gorum.
Human bard (daredevil) 1/rogue 1/swashbuckler 8 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 56, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Combat 32)
CN Medium humanoid (human)
Init +8; Senses Perception +7
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Defense
--------------------
AC 26, touch 18, flat-footed 18 (+7 armor, +6 Dex, +2 dodge, +1 shield)
hp 90 (10 HD; 2d8+8d10+28)
Fort +4, Ref +16, Will +3; +1 morale bonus vs. charm and fear
Defensive Abilities charmed life 4/day, nimble +2
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee +3 mithral longsword +21/+16 (1d8+12/17-20+16 Precision plus 2d6 sneak attack)
Special Attacks bardic performance 7 rounds/day (countersong, derring-do [+1 AC and Reflex saves, +2 on Dexterity-based skill checks], distraction, fascinate [DC 13]), deeds (derring-do, dodging panache, kip-up, menacing swordplay, opportune parry and riposte, precise strike, superior feint, swashbuckler initiative, swashbuckler's grace, targeted strike), panache (3), sneak attack +2d6, swashbuckler weapon training +1
Bard (Daredevil) Spells Known (CL 3rd; concentration +6)
1st (2/day)—grease, vanish[APG] (DC 14)
0 (at will)—flare (DC 13), grasp, know direction, sift[APG]
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Statistics
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Str 12, Dex 22, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 16
Base Atk +8; CMB +10; CMD 27
Feats Accomplished Sneak Attacker, Arcane Strike, Combat Reflexes, Greater Weapon Focus (longsword), Hammer The Gap[UC], Shadow Strike[APG], Slashing Grace[ACG], Weapon Focus (longsword)
Traits dirty fighter, magical knack
Skills Acrobatics +15, Appraise +4, Bluff +10, Climb +10, Diplomacy +7, Disable Device +9, Disguise +7, Escape Artist +13, Intimidate +7, Knowledge (arcana) +4, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +5, Knowledge (engineering) +4, Knowledge (geography) +4, Knowledge (history) +4, Knowledge (local) +4, Knowledge (nature) +4, Knowledge (nobility) +4, Knowledge (planes) +4, Knowledge (religion) +4, Linguistics +4, Perception +7, Perform (oratory) +7, Ride +10, Sense Motive +3, Sleight of Hand +10, Spellcraft +8, Stealth +10, Swim +5, Use Magic Device +13
Languages Common
SQ agile +1, swashbuckler finesse, trapfinding +1
Combat Gear wand of allegro (50 charges); Other Gear +3 mithral chain shirt, mwk buckler, +3 mithral longsword, belt of incredible dexterity +4, handy haversack, headband of alluring charisma +2, 3,730 gp
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Special Abilities
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Agile +1 (Ex) Add bonus to Acrobatics, Bluff, Climb, and Escape Artist checks.
Arcane Strike As a swift action, add +1 damage, +1 per 5 caster levels and your weapons are treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Bardic Performance (standard action, 7 rounds/day) Your performances can create magical effects.
Charmed Life +3 (4/day) (Ex) Choose to add Charisma bonus to save before roll is made.
Combat Reflexes (7 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Deeds
Hammer the Gap With a full-attack action, each hit against the same opponent deals extra damage
Nimble +2 (Ex) +2 dodge bonus to AC.
Panache (Ex) Gain a pool of points that are spent to fuel deeds, regained on light/piercing crit/killing blow.
Shadow Strike You can deal precision damage against targets with some concealment.
Slashing Grace (Longsword) Treat chosen weapon as 1-handed piercing weapon and can add Dex instead of Str to dam.
Sneak Attack +2d6 Attacks deal extra dam if flank foe or if foe is flat-footed.
Swashbuckler Finesse Use Dex for att with light/1-hand pierce wep. Use Cha instead of Int for combat feat pre-reqs.
Swashbuckler Weapon Training +1 (Ex) +1 attack and damage with swashbuckler weapons.
Trapfinding +1 Gain a bonus to find or disable traps, including magical ones.
Damage per round calculations:
Swashbuckler 8/bard (daredevil) 1/rogue 1
Human
+3 longsword
+21/+16 to hit
1d8 + 12 + 16 precision + 2d6 sneak attack/17-20 (x2)
- assumes spending panache to double swashbuckler precision damage and includes sneak attack damage
Without bardic performance
0.9*((4.5+12+16+7) + 0.2*0.9(4.5+12)) + 0.65*((4.5+12+16+7) + 0.2*0.65(4.5+12)) = 66.34
With bardic performance
0.95*((4.5+12+16+7+1) + 0.2*0.95(4.5+12+1)) + 0.70*((4.5+12+16+7+1) + 0.2*0.70(4.5+12+1)) = 72.6
Human fighter 2/warpriest (divine champion) of Gorum 8 (Pathfinder Player Companion: Divine Anthology 14, Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 60)
CN Medium humanoid (human)
Init +2; Senses Perception +5
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Defense
--------------------
AC 24, touch 12, flat-footed 23 (+11 armor, +1 deflection, +1 Dex, +1 natural)
hp 87 (10 HD; 8d8+2d10+32)
Fort +11, Ref +3, Will +8 (+1 vs. fear); +1 morale vs. fear
Defensive Abilities sacred armor (+1, 8 minutes/day)
--------------------
Offense
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Speed 40 ft. (30 ft. in armor)
Melee +3 greatsword +23/+15 (2d6+24/17-20)
Special Attacks blessings 7/day (Destruction: destructive attacks, Strength: strength surge), channel negative energy 3/day (DC 16, 3d6), favored enemy (specified faith +2), fervor 6/day (3d6), sacred weapon (1d8, +2, 8 rounds/day)
Warpriest (Divine Champion) Spells Prepared (CL 8th; concentration +10)
3rd—blood rage, lead blades[APG]
2nd—cure moderate wounds (2), communal protection from evil[UC], resist energy, lesser restoration
1st—bless (2), divine favor (3)
0 (at will)—guidance, read magic, resistance, stabilize, virtue
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 22, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8
Base Atk +8; CMB +18; CMD 26
Feats Channel Smite, Deific Obedience, Desperate Battler[ISWG], Furious Focus[APG], Greater Weapon Focus (greatsword), Hammer The Gap[UC], Improved Critical (greatsword), Martial Focus, Power Attack, Toughness, Weapon Focus (greatsword)
Traits axe to grind, veteran of battle
Skills Climb +15, Handle Animal +4, Heal +10, Intimidate +10, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +4, Knowledge (engineering) +4, Knowledge (religion) +8, Perception +5, Spellcraft +6, Survival +6, Swim +11
Languages Common
SQ +4 to strength checks
Other Gear +2 mithral full plate, +3 greatsword, amulet of natural armor +1, belt of giant strength +4, boots of striding and springing, ring of protection +1, 3,650 gp
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Special Abilities
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+4 to Strength checks (Good) +4 sacred bonus to Strength checks.
Blessings (7/day) (Su) Pool of power used to activate Blessing abilities.
Channel Smite Channel energy can be delivered through a Smite attack.
Deific Obedience Purify yourself daily to prove devotion to a deity and gain benefits.
Desperate Battler Gain +1 morale bonus on melee attack and damage when alone
Fervor (3d6, 6/day) (Su) Standard action, touch channels positive/negative energy to heal or harm. Swift to cast spell on self.
Furious Focus If you are wielding a weapon in two hands, ignore the penalty for your first attack of each turn.
Hammer the Gap With a full-attack action, each hit against the same opponent deals extra damage
Know the Infidel (specified faith +2) (Ex) +2 to rolls vs. believers of specified faith.
Martial Focus (Heavy Blades) You have honed your skills with a group of related weapons.
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +5.
Benefit: Choose one fighter weapon group. While wielding a weapon from this group with which you are proficient, you gain a +1 bonus
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Sacred Armor +1 (8 minutes/day) (Su) As a swift action, grant armor enhancement bonus or certain powers. Use 1 fervor as free action to also activate Sacred weapon.
Sacred Weapon +2 (8 rounds/day) (Su) As a swift action, grant weapon enhancement bonus or certain powers.
Warpriest Channel Negative Energy 3d6 (3/day, DC 16) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
Damage per round calculations:
Unbuffed
Warpriest (divine champion of Gorum) 8/fighter 2
Human
+3 greatsword
+20/+12 to hit (power attack -3/+6 & furious focus)
2d6 + 22/17-20 x2
+3d6 channel smite (DC 16 Will save for half)
0.35*0.85*((7+22+10.5) + 0.35*0.2*0.85(7+22)) + 0.35*0.45*((7+22) + 0.35*0.2*0.45(7+22)) + 0.65*0.85*((7+22+5.25) + 0.65*0.2*0.85(7+22)) + 0.65*0.45*((7+22) + 0.65*0.2*0.45(7+22)) = 47.833675
Self-buffed (fervor)
bless +1 to hit, divine favor +2 to hit and to damage
0.35*0.95*((7+24+10.5) + 0.35*0.2*0.95(7+24)) + 0.35*0.6*((7+24) + 0.35*0.2*0.6(7+24)) + 0.65*0.95*((7+24+5.25) + 0.65*0.2*0.95(7+24)) + 0.65*0.6*((7+24) + 0.65*0.2*0.6(7+24)) = 60.020575
Material used: Adventurer's Guide, and whatever book the slayer is in
Ability Scores:
STR: 24 (+7) (16 base, +1 level, +4 racial, +4 belt)
DEX: 13 (+1) (13 base)
CON: 14 (+2)
INT: 8 (-1) (10 base, -2 racial)
WIS: 11 (0) (13 base, -2 racial)
CHA: 6 (-2) (10 base, -2 racial)
HP: 92 HP (10d10+30)
Saving Throws:
Fort: +14 Ref: +10 Will: +7
AC:
Bow: 22 - Touch 11, Flatfooted 21 (+9 +2 mithral full plate, 1 dex)
Sword and Board: 24 - Touch 11, Flatfooted 23 (+9 +2 mithral full plate, 1 dex, 2 shield)
Attacks: +3 adaptive Orc Hornbow
1: No Modifiers:
+20,+15 ; 2d6+3+7 = avg 17, double on first attack
2: Rapid Shot and Deadly aim
+15,+15,+10 ;2d6+3+7+6 = avg 23, double on first attack
3: Studied target, Rapid Shot, Deadly Aim:
+17,+17,+12 ;2d6+3+7+6+2 = avg 25, double on first attack
4: Sword and Board
+19,+14 ; 1d8+7 = avg 12.5
5: Sword and Board and TWF
+15,+15,+9; 1d8+7;1d4+3;1d8+7
6: Sword and Board and TWF, Studied Target
+17,+17,+11; 1d8+9;1d4+5;1d8+9
Special Attacks:
Sneak attack +2d6
Class Abilities:
Slayer:
Studied Target
Track
Sneak Attack +2d6
Stalker
Slayer Talent x 4 = Combat Style x 2 (Rapid Shot, Manyshot), Weapon Training(Longsword), Combat Trick (Improved Shield Bash)
Sanguine Angel:
Hardened Heart
Maiden's Shield (TWF With Longsword and Shield)
Tyrant's Discipline (Furious Huntress)
BAB: +10 CMB: +17 CMD: 28
Feats:
Armor Prof Heavy
Deadly Aim
Iron Will
Point Blank Shot
Weapon Focus Longbow (this can be traded for precise shot if your melees keep getting there first)
Skills:
42 Ranks
Minimum 1 in Linguistics for Infernal to qualify for PrC
Other stuff, doesn't matter
Gear:
+3 Adaptive Longbow
+2 mithral FullPlate
+4 Str Belt
+3 Cloak of Resistance
Handy Haversack
Masterwork Longsword
Masterwork Heavy Steel Shield
2800 GP in miscellaneous consumables, gear, non-portable goods, etc.
Routine 1 40,205
Routine 2 49,335
Routine 3 64,625
Routine 4 17,1875
Routine 5 14,3275
Routine 6 21,3125
Routine 1 49,655
Routine 2 59,135
Routine 3 76,525
Routine 4 25,9375
Routine 5 23,7775
Routine 6 32,8625
The below are with SA
Routine 1 3,505
Routine 2 6,11
Routine 3 6,55
Routine 4 2,075
Routine 5 2,7275
Routine 6 3,0575
Routine 1 2,365
Routine 2 2,145
Routine 3 2,585
Routine 4 1,375
Routine 5 1,485
Routine 6 1,815
Routine 1 20,56
Routine 2 17,765
Routine 3 22,425
Routine 4 15,5625
Routine 5 11,4125
Routine 6 14,9175
Did I leave anything out?
The highest normally attainable is 64.625
Highest with Sneak attack is 76,525
I feel like I was probably suboptimal at points, but changes could be made.
This probably needs a few more slayer levels to get more feats
I’ve taken liberty with assuming called shots are a combat maneuver and thus work with dirty fighting. They don’t directly relate to DPR so if that’s against the rules then swap them for skill focus.
Nodachi Ned, human fighter 10
Material used ultimate campaign, ultimate equipment, dirty tactics toolbox, ultimate combat, monster codex, armor master’s handbook, weapon master’s handbook, cheliax: empire of devils
Ability Scores:
Str 22 (15, +2 human, +1 level, +4 belt)
Dex 14 (13, +1 level)
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 8
HP: 85 (10d10+30)
Saving Throws:
Fort +10/Ref +6/Will +9
AC: 29 touch: 12 flat-footed: 27 (+10 +1 full plate, +1 defender of society, +2 dex, +3 +1 darkwood shield, +1 shield focus, +2 amulet)
Attacks:
+2 nodachi +25/+20, 1d10+18 (15-20/x2),1d10+18 (15-20/x2),
+1 helmet +17, 1d4+4 (20/x2)
Class Abilities:
Bravery +3
Armor Training 1 (and move full speed in all armor)
Weapon training 2 (heavy blades)
BAB: +10 CMB: +16 CMD: 28
Traits: Indomitable Faith, Defender of Society
Feats:
1 - Dirty Fighting (dirty tactics toolbox)
H - Power Attack
F1 - Improved Called Shot (ultimate combat)
F2 -Weapon Focus (nodachi)
3 - advanced armor training (steel headbut) (armor master’s handbook)
F4 - Weapon Specialization (nodachi)
5 - advanced weapon training (warrior spirit) (weapon master’s handbook)
F6 - Greater Called Shot (ultimate combat)
7 -Shield Focus
Advanced armor training (armored master: shield brace) (armor master’s handbook)
F8 - Greater Weapon Focus (nodachi)
9 - Critical Focus
Advanced weapon training (Armed Bravery) (weapon master’s handbook)
F10 - Improved Critical (nodachi)
Skills:
Some stuff
Gear:
+3 nodachi (18360)
Belt of +4 str (16000)
+1 full plate (2650)
Gloves of Dueling (15000)
Cloak of Resistance +1 (1000)
Handy Haversack (2000)
+1 helmet weapon (1300)
Amulet of Natural Armor +2 (2000)
+1 darkwood heavy shield (1257)
Mwk composite longbow (+6 str mod) (1000)
1433 GP in miscellaneous consumables, gear, non-portable goods, etc.
Power Attacking routine
+3 nodachi +22/+17, helmet +14, 1d10+27 (15-20/x2),1d10+27 (15-20/x2),1d4+7 (20/x2)
Wrong DPR 71.66, +1 to hit 2.11, +1 dmg 2.21, extra attack 40.41
*this is a full attack without helmet attack from steel headbut
So I used tejón's DPR Calculator and did my nodachi attack routine.
I can’t figure out how to do the helmet attack. I assume it would be the same as that one build where the orc/half-orc has a bite attack to add to his full attack but I can’t find any examples of that.
even though this build is good on it's own one of the big hitters I think is if you target chest with every attack using improved called shot that adds 1d4 con damage to critical, which is a pseudo-damage that scales with monster's hit dice. Monster's usually have more hd than their CR, a fire giant for example is CR 10 with 15 HD making a -1 to -4 to con add an additional -15 or -30 "damage" to a crit. Again, not included in DPR but something i like about this build.
1. Have there been any updates to the wording of the DPR challenge since the OP?
2. What's the most DPR so far? (I haven't read all nine pages.)
It'd cost the earth to use them regularly, but consider Artokus's fire, possibly hybridized with acid or something.