Hag Eye Ooze

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RPG Superstar 7 Season Marathon Voter, 8 Season Marathon Voter. Pathfinder Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber. ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Kentucky—Lexington 10,105 posts. 1 review. 1 list. No wishlists. 17 Organized Play characters.

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The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies, Representative - D20 Hobbies

The good news is that you and your GM may choose to rule 0 any rule to work any way you like.

The bad news is the rules are written and designed for two armed players, with two hands of effort. You need actual rule to allow more than that explicitly such as the Bow Nomad kasathas.

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Melkiador wrote:
It's a problem of that cursed "hands of effort" FAQ. The Kasatha form would have 4 hands, but would it give you 4 "hands"?

The game is written/designed around a PC has 2 hands. Any effect that grants more than 2 hands doesn't allow you more than 2 hands of effort unless it explicitly says so and how.

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You really need to limit what they can use, as there is a large number of "I Win" scenarios PC's can use in a build:

I ran many years of PvP games at GenCon, and every year the majority of the players came with the same build I banned the key feature.

  • Gate - 8 of 12 players brought a Solar to their level 12 PvP
  • Leadership feat doubles your effective power.
  • Anti-Magic fields - everyone will be a barbarian UMDing a scroll of antimagic field.
  • Crafting double or triple buying capacity.
  • Xanthuun Tablets - infinity concentration.
  • Quickening Diamond material components - 8,000 gp all casters will always quicken their spells.
  • Goz mask + ever smoking bottle = constant fort saves to all non-party members.
  • Metamagic Rod of Maximize + Storm bolts + Quicken Material components + 1 level Sorcerer = take 40d8+40 Fort Save for half.

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Runrafter wrote:

It is not a spell. It is a vigilante talent.

So the quote is not relevant in this case.

A better explaination for why they always use "spell" to refer to spell and non-spell effects is word count. In general, most effects that produce stacking questions are spells. So they use "spell". They have explained this as word count in the past.

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Thoric's Flame wrote:
Sean K Reynolds wrote:

Oh, this will be added to the errata. I just wanted everyone to have an answer *now*, instead of not having a public answer until the next Core Rulebook reprint.

Sorry for the terrible Necro but... where is this supposed Errata? I cant find it. Also the link to the FAQ doesn't seem to work.

EDIT: I found a non broken link to the FAQ Here

Sean is no longer on the design time nor still employed by Paizo.

I assume newer printings of Core had any change based on this, but even if there is no change. We know how this works.

Most GM's would be fine with any PC (give them the AC all the time) if they put it on the weapon they planned to use to attack and likewise not be fine with a PC who put it on a shield or a weapon like armor spikes they never used to attack. That sort of behavior is why we have these types of FAQ/errata.

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1 person marked this as a favorite.

Cevah presented a perfect reply. One thing of not is some items are intentionally over charged. A prime example of that is ring of invisibility. They cost more than the formulas because their utility is better than your typical 2nd level spell.

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LordKailas wrote:
That makes sense. With no attack roll involved it means some weapon enchantments wont even do anything (eg keen) and others are questionable at best (eg training).

It doesn't seem to me to require an attack roll. It just deals damage. You wouldn't want to add Keen to this weapon. You'd want more like +1 flaming.

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@andreww, thanks for that.
@avr, more for future google/search viewers than for the original poster.

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Spiritualist Phantom and Unchained Summoner Eidolon both speak and both have mental communication. So that should also fix the speech issue, via having your Phantom/Eidolon speak for you.

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Lifevirus wrote:
Melee: 3(4 with slow time) morphic weaponry +13 (1d6+3/x2) + 2 Shifter Claws +13 (1d3+3/x2; Bypass DR/Magic,Cold Iron,Silver)

Your morphic weapons would reduce to 1 when you add 2 Shifter's Claws.

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Slyme wrote:
Gold Nodule Ioun Stone grants you "This stone grants you the ability to comprehend, speak, read, and write a single language (chosen by the ioun stone’s creator)"

You can't speak, the Gold Nodule doesn't give you vocal cords.

You may need something like Vigilante's Mockingbird (Ex) or Speaker of the Palatine Eye's Corpse Speaker (Su) to "speak" without speaking.

The way Kineticist's Voice of the Wind, Greater is worded I don't think it works for the same reason the Gold Nodule shouldn't.

Telepathy should work, like Telepathic Link to a Speak with Master Familiar who can speak like a Parrot.

Projectionist's Implant Consciousness (Su) works also.

Anyone have any other concepts of "how to speak" in ooze form?

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doomman47 wrote:
How would this work with the shamans Arcane Enlightenment and how would it work on a spirit guide oracle would the oracle get to cast the spells despite not being a prepared spell caster because this class feature would add the spells to their spell list and they can take them as spells known?

There is a lot of debate on how this class feature works, so your GM may rule in a couple different ways.

But as a GM I believe it should work as it is a class feature. Admittedly one you obtain via an Archetype, but still ultimately it isn't a feat, item, or non-class feature ability.

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Scott Wilhelm wrote:
The OP IS the GM in this case, so that's all right, then.

Notice I said as much, Ryze Kuja also, and you needed to as well. It's very well covered that GM may rule zero anything they like, but the rules do not permit doing so without GM Rule zero. For clarity.

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ErichAD wrote:
I think it was about the eagle shaman druid being granted roc form but not a gargantuan roc form, and why the bat shape feat didn't make you a diminutive bat.

The eagle shaman has a FAQ that explicitly only applies to the eagle shaman and makes it clear the permission to "resize" forms doesn't extend past eagle shaman listed forms.

The bat shape feat never got a FAQ and had a Mark response (iirc) saying several ways the GM could rule.

The result is that Druids can't "fix" form shapes via templates, advancing via HD, or otherwise without GM rule zero adjudication. If the animal isn't a printed stat block of a non-templated animal they can't take the form.

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Ryze Kuja wrote:
Once a Druid becomes level 8, they can wild shape into Huge or Diminutive animals.

Only those the GM say exists.

avr wrote:
There's a giant lake octopus which is huge, but it's technically an advanced giant octopus, you'd have to stretch a point to make it valid for wild shape.

+1

Giant Lake Octopus are a templated monster, and not valid for Wild Shape.

To the OP: A GM can "rule zero" anything. Including saying Giant Lake Octopus is a legal wild shape form.

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Ryze Kuja wrote:
At any point in time, you can Wild Shape into a Huge-sized Giant Octopus (or wild shape into a Kraken for flavor).

Where is a huge giant octopus printed? The only one I found was Large.

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Temperans wrote:

I didn't list the FAQs because I'm not sure on the number of FAQs that deal with classes having similar or the same class feature.

But im not sure if there are more.

There are no FAQ that conflict, so having a similar FAQ generally informs how future questions will be answered.

Is there a specific question you still feel is unanswered?

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Temperans wrote:
but given how spells and spell-like abilities can be affected regardless of class (Its why Sorcerer dips can be useful), I would say it probably does work.

Although it isn't a rule, in every case I can remember like the sorcerer arcana the rule is stated without the class:

"Whenever you cast a spell that deals damage, that spell deals +1 point of damage per die rolled."

As compared to channel energy:
"Regardless of alignment, any cleric can release a wave of energy by channeling the power of her faith through her holy (or unholy) symbol. This energy can be used to cause or heal damage, depending on the type of energy channeled and the creatures targeted."

I have never seen an example of an ability that works like the sorcerer that also contains the name of the class.

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I'm welcome to any and all criticism, so if my reasoning isn't persuasive and you have better ideas. Let me know.

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deuxhero wrote:

Also why odd scores in dex and con? Strength is the only thing odd scores do anything in when not dealing with ability drain.

Missed this. Strategy is since this character is going to 18th level in PFS, I'll be using a lot of +1 from level and/or +1 inherent bonuses.

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Thanks

deuxhero wrote:
Oracles are full casters, so the biggest part of your viability is spells chosen

Agreed. I covered the first 3 spell levels:

1st Bless, Obscuring Mist, Liberating Command, and Divine Favor.
2nd Healing Token, Goodberry (2nd; Erastil only), and Peacemaker's Parley.
3rd Second Wind and Magic Vestment.

I’m totally interested in suggestions. I’ve read most of the guides and I’ll be using their suggestions for 4th level and up spells.

deuxhero wrote:
Why take Divine Power?

Typo power instead of favor. But for higher level Major Forms of Magical Beasts.

deuxhero wrote:
obedience can easily run into situations where it's impossible. Resting in a dungeon can easily result in a situation where there's no soil to plant things and no place to put things where a passerby might see them. Might be able to carry some pots of soil, but that's pretty heavy.

I believe the PFS undetermined time between games helps mitigate this issue.

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I'd go some wild shape Druid, Crocodile domain for sneak attack at 6th.

Shaping focus with 2 levels of Ranger for Natural Weapon Style to gain Improved Natural Attack Bite for Behemoth Hippopotamus.

Weapon Shift to use that weapon's trip property combined with Huge size to trip anything.

Lashing Aklys (+2 bonus on combat maneuver checks made to trip) and Balor's Lash (additional 2d6 fire on trip) may be used for their additional properties based on your GM's interpretation of "gain all of the weapon’s properties". Some GM require Improved Weapon Shift for properties like these. Some say you never gain them.

God choices at 7th would be accomplished sneak attacker for 2d6 SA or use a go down Sap Master path using a sap with Weapon Shift to deal loads of non-lethal.

Feral Combat Training or Weapon Shift with a "monk" weapon would allow you to use the natural weapon in Flurry or Brawler Flurry.

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deuxhero wrote:

Tears to Wine isn't PFS legal.

As far as I understand it, level 13+ in PFS is just normal modules.

Embarrassing, right. I had missed that and hadn’t added Tears to Wine in Hero Lab yet.

The advancement is goings to be playing three AP simultaneously and gaining the sheets to level from 1 to 18 only using 3 XP 4 PP AP chronicles.

No other issues? How’s your gut feeling on this character. Does it seem like it will work?

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Looking to build an oracle to 18th level (starting at 1st on New Year's Eve 2019). I've estimated the purchases and choices of the first 7 levels.

Low levels will be using dancing lantern spell with eclipsing spell on a candle lamp to get dim or darkness on my square without impacting allies vision too much. Gaining shadow blending at 7th for 50% concealment.
Mid levels will be buffing and life link healing, diplomacy, Gift of Madness.
High levels will be constant overland flight, black tentacles, debilitating portent, freedom of movement, greater magic weapons, healing flame, boneshatter, breath of life, fabricate and feeblemind.
Very high levels (13+) wil be eaglesoul, 1/day 12 hour +2 sacred bonus on attacks and will saves plus one teamwork feat you don't have to all your allies (probably Passing Grace for shared healing).

How could this be better?

Gnome
Artistic (+2 racial perform skill)
Fey Fortitude (+2 racial death effects)
Gift of Tongues (+1 bluff/diplomacy and additional languages)
Vivacious (additional healing)
Deity Erastil
STR 5 DEX 13 CON 15 INT 13 WIS 12 CHA 19

Traits Fate's Favored (+1 luck), Extremely Fashionable (+1 diplomacy)
Oracle (Spirit Guide)
Mystery Dark Tapestry
Curse Covetous

Oracle 1 - Revelation Pierce the Veil, Spells Bless and Obscuring Mist
Oracle 3 - Spirit Guide (Life) -> Life Link, Spells Liberating Command
Oracle 4 - Spells Healing Token (2nd)
Oracle 5 - Spells Divine Power (1st) and Goodberry (2nd; Erastil only)
Evangelist 2 - Spells Second Wind (3rd)
Evangelist 3 - Spirit Guide (Channel), Boon 1 -> 3/day CLW, and Spells Divine Favor (1st), Peacemaker's Parley (2nd), Magic Vestment (3rd)

Feats:
1st Fey Foundling
3rd Extra Revelation Many Forms (Minimum 3rd)
5th Deific Obedience
7th Diverse Obedience

Initial purchases of mundane armor, gear, and weapons.
Magic item purchases:
1st Wayfinder, Authoritative Vestments, Cooperation Crystal, and Void Shard.
2nd Ring of Eloquence and Page of Spell Knowledge Dancing Lantern.
3rd Page of Spell Knowledge Hedging Weapons, Lesser Eclipsed Spell, and Magenta Prism Cracked Ioun.
4th Amulet of Natural Armor +1,
5th Runeward Tattoo Evocation & Illusion, Dusty Rose Ioun, Belt of Constitution +2, and Lucky Horseshoe
6th Runeward Tattoo Enchantment and Phylactery of Positive Channeling.
7th Ring of Revelation Gift of Madness, +1 shadow blending lamellar leather, +1 consecrated dark wood heavy wooden shield.

Future Buys:
Silver Spindle Flawed (24,000 GP for 3/day Tears to Wine)
Witching Gown (35,000 GP; make UMD on a 1 to be a witch)
Rod of Splendor (25,000 GP; +4 CHA, feed into covetous)
Halo of Inner Calm (16,000 GP; +2 sacred saves, make UMD on a 1 to be a trifling)
Hexing Ward (+3 deflection until hit)
Staff of Courage 20,800 for bless(1) and prayer(3) ~ 10,000 gp value in pages of spell knowledge.
Staff of Blessed Relief 7,200 for bless(1) ~ 1,000 gp value in pages of spell knowledge.
Oaken Staff 31,800 for barkskin(2) ~ 4,000 gp but at 12th that’s 50,000 gp

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies, Representative - D20 Hobbies

Great point Dracomicron! That seems to be the only thing in the game that cares about what level order you have. Maybe just a spot to note "Last two levels: " would be sufficient and update it every time you level.

Thanks to every indulging my curiosity.

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SirShua wrote:
You still need to track how many skill ranks and hp/sp each class gives you. There's 3 different tracks for them currently.

Yep

Tracking that. But it doesn’t matter how I write them down. If I’ve got 4 levels, I can write it as Envoy 2, Soldier 2 or Envoy 1, Soldier 1, Envoy 2, Soldier 2 and both are equivalent. 4 levels splits 2 and 2.

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Yea, the key ability doesn't matter for the order like Micheal Smith quoted. For the feat prereq, so long as you qualify it doesn't matter that you remember the order you took the classes.

I'm thinking from a character creation / character sheet perspective. If there isn't anything that matters for order, there is no need to write down the order you took classes and I can't seem to find anything in the system that cares about the order.

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While working on another game system, it occurred to me that level by level advancement doesn’t seem to matter in Starfinder like it does in Pathfinder?

In Pathfinder, we need to track HP and favored class bonuses by level. Neither of those matter in Starfinder. Additionally we have the rebuild items to redo a character.

Can anyone think of anything that requires one to write down the order classes were taken vs just the total of each class you possess?

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I guess we truly need a FAQ on this. I’m not entirely sure why the points are getting mixed up. I’ll write up a good FAQ Monday.

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Polymorph school has a rule wrote:
In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.

This would block Enlarge whether or not the polymorph changed your size.

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+1 except I think it isn’t gets ignored not dispelled.

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The vestigile FAQ combined with Hands of Effort FAQ clarify a PC has one primary and one offhand plus some number of natural weapons.

You can’t depend more than one primary and one offhand in attacks with or without vestigile.

You can’t use an offhand feature like Spell Combat or TWF if you are using your offhand already.

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Volkard Abendroth wrote:
The complete example by SKR is in my prior post

That is not complete. He didn’t cover a two handed weapon in his examples. He did in my linked post.

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Reread that thread. It’s explicily identical to your assertion.

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Graystone, sorry. I see the confusion. I said “claw” accidentally in the url link title instead of “unarmed strike”.

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PossibleCabbage wrote:
Supernatural abilities are not spells. Spell-like abilities are not spells.

Both true statements.

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Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

He still couldn't use a claw because the limbs that have claws are occupied wielding a two-handed weapon, but that's beside the point.

The arms can't be used to do something your normal limbs can't in regards to melee combat. If I can't wield a two-handed weapon and claw normally, the discovery shouldn't let me do so.

Well that is true. But if the PC had a claw, they could do claw, spell combat (using vestigile), and one hand a sword. At least I believe that is what was ultimately clarified.

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Graystone, you are one a different point.

My linked post was an interpreted by SKR as an example of making an attack with:
(Primary Hand, Offhand) for two hand sword and offhand for unarmed strike.

The reply said you can not do that.

The Volkard example is identical:
(Offhand) for Spell Combat and (Primary Hand, Offhand) for two hand sword.

So we have explicit and official denial of that via the vestigile FAQ and Hands of effort FAQ.

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The author of the FAQ with the entire design team consensus says that you can’t two hand a sword and make a claw.

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Vestigile arms is written from the perspective of someone who still only have two arms (for the purpose of attacks.)

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3 people marked this as a favorite.

The actual question they are wanting answered is:

For spell stacking rules, if a magical effect is not a spell it is exempt from stacking rules because a supernatural effect is magical but not a spell.

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Perfect Tommy wrote:
TLDR: I would say that you apply the ability to speak normally *as the caster*.

So you made your familiar a ventriloquist dummy?

As for your question, no this doesn't all an animal that can only go "grr" go "my dear sir I'm happy I can speak".

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Lady-J wrote:
these are all raw, by raw a creature with a polymorph effect can benefit from a non spell size change and this is doubly true for non spell polymorph effects

If you believe this is so, you are in the vast majority. You really need to make a new thread, link all the previous threads where the discussion happened, and hope for a FAQ.

I don't expect you to be confirmed.

That isn't how the rules work, how they are described to work, how every similar issue has been demonstrated to work.

Either, you accept your view isn't going to be accepted as fact until proven with a FAQ in your favor or please stop continuing to assert your position is RAW, the one true interpretation to bind them all.

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Ok, not ever level of Arcane Archer gives caster level improvements.

You'd need 5th caster level to start enhancing it as a magic weapon. You'd need CL of 3 times the bonus, so for +5 weapon that is CL 15.

You can use orange ioun stone, magical knack, and Esoteric/Eclectic Training to offset the fighter levels and the levels of Arcane Archer that don't give you CL improvements.

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toastedamphibian wrote:
Okay, no actual reason. Thanks.

In the threads, the reason was paraphrased as "we couldn't think of why your foot and your nose isn't two weapons so we are allowing".

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Where is the bonded object feat?

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Merm7th wrote:
would it affect the entire dragon plus 10 feet out?

yes

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Lady-J wrote:
you are well within your rights to house rule that it doesn't work but by raw it does work.

You differ in interpretation in a way that FAQ tend to rule against.

Nothing more to be said. You see our way as a house rule in the same way we see your way a house rule.

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