Danse Macabre

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Organized Play Member. 883 posts (885 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 Organized Play characters.


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Consider the Magister class. It's 3pp, but it's basically a spontaneous Mystic Theurge that can gain access to a number of interesting class features, including (but not limited to) Sorcerer Bloodlines and Oracle Mysteries.


Wonderstell wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
Wonderstell wrote:
...items...
Curious why you bought a Hand of Glory when you have only two rings.

Oh, it's for my mount.

I wanted it to share a feat with the Ring of Tactical Precision, but it doesn't have a ring slot unless I pay for it with the Extra Item Slot feat.
So that's the workaround. The mount puts on the amulet at breakfast and attunes Outflank/Paired Opportunist to the ring, then the rider uses it.

Wouldn't a Horsemaster's Saddle do just as well for this purpose?


Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor with the Accomplished Sneak Attacker feat and the Dreamed Secrets feat has 11 BAB and can cast Sense Vitals


Rather than a Rageshaper, I would strongly suggest that you consider the Beastkin Berserker Barbarian archetype. It allows you to transform into a number of different creatures when you Rage. Furthermore, you gain the full benefits of both Rage and Beast Shape (unless you're playing in PFS). As such, you're an amazingly strong combatant at almost all levels of play.


Ask your DM if you can play a Sublime Warmage, a Magus archetype that replaces cantrips with entry level initiation (but forces you to spend arcana/feats for progression).

Since all it does is replace cantrips, it also stacks with the Kensai and Bladebound archetypes. Kensai is good for not needing armor, but it can still wear and benefit from a Haramaki, since Haramaki armor lacks Arcane Spell Failure as well as Armor Check Penalty.

Bladebound is just there to save money on your sword, allowing you to purchase better items. If you have high DEX and INT, then you're set.


"I was leaning towards either a heavy martial or maybe switch hitter, decent knowledges for IDing various monsters and their weaknesses, maybe some low grade magic."

You've looked into Slayer, Fighter, Investigator and Inquisitor. But have you considered a Ranger?

Rangers are great switch hitters with their free combat style feats (arguably the best, IMHO), and they're built around hunting certain creature types. They even have some low grade magic that can solve a lot of problems and/or be potent combat buffs.


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1/3 God and 3/4 Human, huh? Must be the missing 13th Apostle.


I would suggest looking into Kirthfinder.

The combat has been revamped, with characters gaining a number of immediate actions and partial actions based on their BAB (you start off with 1 of each and gain +1 to both at levels 6, 11 & 16).

Partial actions can be used as move actions, but can also be used to make iterative attacks. Any character can choose to hold some of their partial actions, then use it when they wish as an immediate action. This allows for a more dynamic and free flowing combat.

It also makes for a much tougher one, due to the extra mobility. If you really want to punish your players, then take one of the revamped classes, like the Kirthfinder Fighter. With the revamped feat list (where there are ZERO feat taxes or trap options), it's easy to make an incredibly challenging non-magic encounter with this system.


Has anybody else had trouble with the sharing link on the Kirthfinder Google Drive? It's been greyed out for a while now, and I don't know if the link I have is working for everyone I want to share the link with.


Nah, chat's been pretty sparse ever since word of 2E came to be. It's pretty sad, really. But it's not like Kirth Gersen is getting paid for this; he's just doing this on his free time. Maybe he's more busy than normal, or maybe he's lost the will the continue this project. I hope that the latter isn't the case, but if it is, know that Kirthfinder is primarily homebrew, and like with Pathfinder, if there's an aspect of the rules that you don't like, you can always feel free to change them.


If you are forbidden from making the changes necessary for your character to stop being a drag on the party (like getting rid of your archetype), then I say you might as well save everyone's time and roll a new character right there and then.

It's certainly preferable to intentionally trying to get your character killed but pretending as if that isn't case for an extended length of time. Because if you have to play with a character you don't enjoy, then chances are, nobody is having fun. Not you, not the GM, and not even the people around you.


Volkard Abendroth wrote:
Meirril wrote:
Funny thing about archetypes...you can't just get rid of them. Or is someone going to inform me that I'm wrong?

Retraining rules.

It takes time and money.

Or, if your GM isn't allowing you to alter your character, just kill them and start over as a completely new character.


Derklord wrote:

I probably screwed that up as well, let me re-check it.

Ok, I have no idea what I did there - I can't reproduce the number, but it's definitely wrong. The actual DPR should be 186.7 on a pounce. Yep, that looks more realistic! Also, a little scary. I new Gorums DFT was crazy, but damn!

And just like that, all is right with the world.


Derklord wrote:

Musket Master Gunslinger, wielding a +1 greater reliable musket, using Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, and Deadly Aim: 143.3 DPR

2H Barbarian, wielding a +4 greatsword, using Power Attack, Divine Fighting Technique (Gorum), Vital Strike, and Improved Critical; raging, pouncing under reckless abandon: 131.5 DPR
Dragon Style unMonk
, wearing a +3 AoMF, using Possessed Hand, Dragon Style, Dragon Ferocity, and Jabbing Style; Flurry with Flying Kick and a ki attack: 152.6 DPR
Swashbuckler
wielding a +4 rapier, with Weapon Focus, Fencing Grace, Piranha Strike, and Weapon Spec: 132.4 DPR
Wildshape Druid
, wielding a +3 AoMF, using Power Attack and Mutated Shape; pouncing as an allosaurus: 141.8 DPR
Archery Fighter
, wielding a +4 composite (+2) longbow, using Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Deadly Aim, Weapon Focus+Greater, and Weapon Spec+Greater; with Gloves of Duelling: 87,9 DPR143.1 DPR
Bomber Alchemist, at 20 dex (with mutagen) and 24 int, using Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Two-Weapon Fighting+Improved, throwing bombs with Fast Bombs: 153.8 DPR

What kind of world do we live in, where 2H Barbarians do the LEAST damage?


I'm of the opinon that you can take Intelligent 3 times at Mythic Tier 1, but only one of the abilities selected work until you get enough Mythic Tiers to use the others.


Tyrannical wrote:

Not quite sure what works best here, I'm looking for an ability that trades the durability of the weapon for a bonus of some kind, in an attempt to reward treating improvised weapons as disposable.

Any suggestions?

You might want to look at the Barroom Sphere from Spheres of Might. Quite a few talents are about using improvised weapons, then inflicting the broken condition on a fragile weapon in order to gain particular bonuses.


From what I can tell, Target Words have a minimum spell level, but don't actually effect the wordspell's actual level. Lightning Blast is level 3, the same minimum spell level as the Barrier word.

Barrier word states that it must be straight when formed, so no zig-zagging unless you apply the Boost word to alleviate this restriction.

The duration of the wall is set by the effect word, with all lightning effect words having instantaneous duration. This means that it's effect takes place once, immediately when cast (on the caster's turn), and then never again. The damage done is also set by the effect word (for Lightning blast, 1d6/caster level to a max of 10d6).


Here's a wickedly awesome idea: Convert the new playtest campaign, Doomsday Dawn, into a Kirthfinder campaign. Then use it to playtest/introduce people to Kirthfinder.

We could even call it, "Doomsday Dusk." People can then compare how it feels to play between the two systems, and rate their experiences with both PF2E and KF, comparing and contrasting the two.


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Pathfinder 2e Playtest came out. Seeing a lot of familiar stuff in there. Some changes I like, others...not so much. I still think Kirthfinder is a way better Pathfinder 2E than the actual Pathfinder 2E.


I think that rule is only for DR/Alignment.


JDawg75 wrote:
Heather 540 wrote:
JDawg75 wrote:

*warning: potential necro*You know what would be epic: wielding an orc hornbow. Is there a feasible way I could swing that?

J

Easy, use the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat.

My own Inquisitor character is a half-orc Sanctified Slayer / Ravener Hunter. One of the archetypes gives you an Oracle's Mystery with Revelations at level one and 8. I chose Battle and took Skill At Arms at level 8 to give her Martial Weapon Proficiency. Which orc weapons are to half-orcs.

Forgot to mention the caveat: I don't want to use any feats. All of my feats through at least level 7 are spoken for. My race will almost certainly stay human.

Buy an Opalescent White Pyramid Ioun Stone.


Wizard is easily the best way to build Batman.

Bruce Wayne = Normal form (Your apparent physical weakness only accentuates this disguise)

Batman Getup = Adjustable Disguise (who needs to be a Vigilante when you have this?)

Martial Capability = Emblem of Greed / Transformation (especially with the Idealize Discovery, since Batman is in some ways, an ideal)

Stealth Skills = Greater Invisibility / Penumbral Disguise / Impenetrable Veil (the last one is essentially the ninja capstone as a 10 min/level spell)

Bat Cave = Create Demiplane (Can't get more hidden than that)

Utility Belt = Insert other spells here.

Seriously, what more do you want? Wizard is always a good recommendation almost for anything. Hell, there's a thread on Reddit about using a Wizard to emulate a g%!~*@n Gundam Wing Pilot. Wizards of high enough level can do literally anything and everything.


I would say ask your GM. If they're reasonable, they'll probably allow it.


Using up one of your precious few exploits in order to gain access to Acadamae Graduate certainly isn't a waste. And if you really want standard action summons, there's always Words of Power, which is still technically 100% 1st party Paizo.

Even without standard action minute/level summons though, I'd still go for an Exploiter (Pact) Wizard.


Why not both?

Be an Exploiter Wizard. Take the Acadamae Graduate feat.

The feat requires you to be a "specialist wizard" that did not make conjuration an opposed school of magic. Not having conjuration as an opposed school is easy since you don't have any opposed schools. However, "specialist wizard" is a bit of an undefined term.

At most, it just means a wizard that has chosen an arcane school, so if you take the School Understanding Exploit, you should still technically qualify. The exploit literally allows you to select and gain an arcane school, it just wants you to pay reservoir points to use its full power.

But full power isn't necessary for the Acadamae Graduate feat. As an Exploiter Wizard with Acadamae Graduate, you have tremendous versatility. Even more so if you decide to combine the archetype with the Pact Wizard archetype that gives you access to an Oracle Curse and a Witch's Patron.


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
Kaouse wrote:
Hmm, so what would say is the most effective means to deal with an undead? Especially if it's an undead version of a PC?
What kind of undead are they?

Generic undead. Nothing overtly special, IIRC.


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I think there's a rule that when Summoned Creatures disappear, everything they left behind also disappears. This would include the profane gift from the Succubus (but it wouldn't deal any Charisma damage or anything, it would just cease to exist).

Otherwise, I would just treat the illusion beast's ability the same as a summoned beast's ability and let it work until it expired.


Hmm, so what would say is the most effective means to deal with an undead? Especially if it's an undead version of a PC?


Can Undead creatures be targetted by Resurrection and/or True Ressurection?

The Undead description states the following:

Undead Traits wrote:
Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.

However, the Resurrection spells say the following:

Resurrection wrote:
You can resurrect someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed. You cannot resurrect someone who has died of old age. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can’t be resurrected.
True Resurrection wrote:
You can revive someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed. This spell can also resurrect elementals or outsiders, but it can’t resurrect constructs or undead creatures.

Emphasis mine.

So is the intent supposed to be that you can only resurrect an undead creature after it has been destroyed? If so, then the bit under "undead traits" doesn't make much sense, since everything that dies and is destroyed, is treated as an object.

If it's still treated as an undead to the point where it has undead traits, it's still "alive" right?


If you think Druid Wildshape is garbage, I pray that you never have to play a Shifter.


Mind Buttressing:
Quote:
Mind buttressing armor grants the wearer a +2 resistance bonus on Will saves and renders her immune to possession and mental control (including charm and compulsion effects like command and charm person). If it’s donned by a creature already under the influence of such an effect, the creature immediately receives another saving throw (if one was allowed to begin with) against the spell or effect. If the check is successful, the effects are suppressed until the creature removes the armor, after which they resume. This ability can be applied only to medium or heavy armor.

Emphasis mine. If you take a regular breastplate and enchant it with mind-buttressing, what happens to it when the breastplate becomes mithral?

I know mithral breastplate still requires medium armor proficiency, so does it count as medium armor or light armor for the purposes of special abilities?

If not, then does the timing in which the ability was "applied" matter? That is to say, if the Mind Buttressing ability was applied to the breastplate while it was a legal target, could it still be used if breastplate is no longer a legal target?

Could I also apply the Brawling enchantment to a Mithral Breastplate?

Brawling:
Quote:
The wearer of brawling armor gains a +2 bonus on unarmed attack and damage rolls, including combat maneuver checks made to grapple. Her unarmed strikes count as magic weapons for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction. These bonuses do not apply to natural weapons. This special ability does not prevent the wearer’s unarmed strikes from provoking attacks of opportunity or make the wearer’s unarmed strikes count as armed attacks. The brawling ability can be applied only to light armor.

Emphasis mine. The same questions apply but in reverse.

Is it ever possible to have a Mind-Buttressing & Brawling Armor?


Any full caster that can cast Emblem of Greed. Bonus points if they abuse a Coven for this.


roguerouge wrote:
Pack a crowbar. It's the martial equivalent of a scroll of knock

It's sad how true this is.


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Chances are, your casters aren't playing to their potential. The solution, put them up against casters that ARE playing to their potential. It'll definitely make the martial's lives miserable, and the casters will get ideas of the sort of stuff they can do, too.


Have you considered playing a straight Beastkin Berserker Barbarian? You get access to Beast Shape III at Level 12 (unlike the Shifter who is restricted to Beast Shape II). Plus, you can select any legal Beast Shape creature, unlike the Shifter who is limited to a list of 12.

I think the archetype was nerfed in PFS to be more in line with Mooncursed (in that the bonuses from Beast Shape replace Rage bonuses, rather than stack alongside them), but even then, I feel like you gain way more by staying a single classed Barbarian than you would by going Shifter for 4 levels.

Mainly, Strength Surge--the best rage power for people interested in Combat Maneuvers--gives you a bonus equal on the roll equal to your Barbarian level. Plus you get great saves against magic with Superstitious, and decent defenses with the DR from Invulnerable Rager. With Invulnerable Rager + the Stalwart Feat + Improved Stalwart, you become pretty difficult to take down even with a lack of armor.


Gray Warden wrote:

Did I say they are archetypes?

Bloodline Mutations wrote:
Although heirs to similar arcane bloodlines may share commonalities, the unique circumstances in which a bloodline enters a bloodrager or sorcerer’s lineage can result in the manifestation of particularly strange or unusual bloodline powers known as mutations. Whenever a bloodrager or a sorcerer gains a new bloodline power, she can swap her bloodline power for a bloodline mutation whose prerequisites she meets. Once this choice is made, it cannot be changed, and a bloodrager or sorcerer cannot swap a bloodline power that she has altered or replaced with an archetype for a bloodline mutation. A bloodrager need not be in a bloodrage to use her bloodline mutation powers. Alternatively, a bloodrager or sorcerer can select a bloodline mutation in place of a bloodline bonus feat, provided her class level is at least equal to the level of the bloodline ability the mutation normally replaces.

Huh, that's interesting. Apparently doesn't stop you from trading out "altered" bonus feats though.


Gray Warden wrote:
Jaxtor wrote:
I know this is an old thread but I just wanted to throw my two bits in. If you're just going straight damage I think Cross blooded sorc using the Orc and Draconic (any fire) blood lines and the bloodline mutations for +3 dmg per dice. Using varisian tatoo and precocious spell caster you can have a burning hands at lvl1 that deals 3d4+9 dmg 5 times a day. Or if you want a more long term character drop the cross blooded and take only the orc blood line and have 3d4+6 dmg burning hands a second spell like windy escape ( a favorite of mine.)
Cross-blooded alters all Bloodline powers, so no Bloodline Mutations for you.

Bloodline Mutations aren't an archetype.


Silksworn Occultist.

As an Occultist, your magic doesn't so much come from you, as it does from your implements. So it's somewhat valid for the Occultist to say something along the lines of "I have no magical power whatsoever."

Silksworn takes things up a notch, by giving you access to more implements (which means more spells known), more spells per day, and Silksworn Deception.

Silksworn wrote:

Silksworn Deception (Su): At 12th level, a silksworn can hide his speech and gestures within his extravagant clothing. Whenever the silksworn casts a spell, he can attempt a Bluff check opposed by Sense Motive checks from those observing him. Those who fail are unaware of his spellcasting, unless an effect obviously originates from the silksworn.

This ability replaces binding circles.

Plus, if you choose an illusion implement, you can grab Magic Aura and similar spells to hide your magical auras.


If a Level 1 NPC Warrior has more than 12 STR, it too is extraordinary. An average person's STR is 10, while 12 is above-average. Anything more than that is extraordinary.

While an NPC with a Greatsword could theoretically whittle away at an iron door (better than tunneling through Shawshank with a spoon or filing away iron bars with a nail sharpener), it would take a prohibitively long time, and more than likely attract unwanted attention.

A single inch of iron has 30 HP and Hardness 10. If you want a door to be difficult to get through, you could make it of an unknown thickness to dissuade attacks (It's not like your party knows how thick any given door is, so you can keep its health secret pretty easily). Or better yet, treat all doors as Adamantine, with hardness 20. By the time the party is strong enough to deal with that, the wizard should likely already have teleportation or other methods of bypassing doors.

At any rate, yes, Doors have Break DCs. From my reading of it, these Break DCs basically allow you to burst down the door with a single standard action so long as you make the requisite STR check. Such a thing is way more efficient than attempting to hack through the door for multiple rounds with no real way of knowing how much longer it will take.

But Doors also have Hardness and HP for a reason. I would totally allow a player to hack down a door if they so choose, and if it's something that Fighters can do at early levels that the wizard can't do as easily until later on, then I'm more than fine with that bit of early niche protection staying in the game.

As an aside, Level 5 Martial Artist Monks literally have the ability to ignore hardness and DR with Exploit Weakness, so... yeah.


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Pizza Lord wrote:


Kaouse wrote:
Just let them hack the g@+&&!n door with any weapon of their choosing. It's a lot better than the alternative, which is to force your martial characters to sit in the corner and do nothing while the wizard solves the problem in 6 seconds with a spell (in this case, Knock).
I think I know what you're trying to imply: the we should just let players fly and jump 200 foot chasms just because they can't... <---- playful sarcasm ...

Sarcasm or not, this strawman of my point is pretty poor. You might not know this, but regular people are able to break stone. Regular people aren't able to fly and jump 200 ft chasms. That said, the characters we play in this game, aren't regular people. They are EXTRAORDINARY people, with EXTRAORDINARY abilities. The fact that you think something possible for regular people is somehow an issue for EXTRAORDINARY people, is problematic.

My major point here, is that anything a regular person could do, is something I would mostly handwave a PC doing. Or at least allow an attempt without penalty.

Quote:

but I am not letting them hack through any door they want with any weapon they want just because the alternative is allowing a character who prepared a spell or bought a resource or planned ahead 6 seconds to do so. Sorry, your whip (even your lethal damage whip) or spiked chain isn't going to work just because you decided to focus your entire character on being a whip user. Buy a crowbar.

If your players seriously whine and threaten to sit in a corner when you say there's a locked door and the wizard actually gets a chance to cast a knock spell they have prepared because you're taking away their schtick of dealing damage (conveniently forgetting that they can deal damage in almost every encounter in an adventure unless there's absolutely no combat in it), then that's being petulant.
Wizard:"Hey, I can cast my knock spell finally. I didn't know if it would come in...

Can you not see the issue here is endemic of a greater problem? Martial characters have preciously few ways to interact with the narrative of a story, while casters have every tool available.

If the party wants to track down an item, the caster can cast Scrying, Locate Object, or any other number of divinations to help find it. What can the Fighter do besides sit in a corner and twiddle his thumbs?

If the party wants to sneak into a dangerous area and recover said item, the Wizard can cast Invisibility in order to bypass any guards, and escape with Dimension Door/Teleport/Word of Recall. What can the Fighter do besides sit in a corner and twiddle his thumbs?

If the party gains audience with the king and needs to curry his favor , then the caster can cast things like Charm Person, or even Dominate Person, to turn the King into their puppet. What can the Fighter do besides sit in a corner and twiddle his thumbs?

Now, obviously, you might point to skills. A Fighter could attempt to track items with Survival and Perception. They could attempt to elude capture with Stealth and Sleight of Hand. They could attempt to curry favor with the Kind using Bluff and Diplomacy. And they could even attempt to open locked doors using Disable Device.

The problem with all of these options is that they all suck compared to the magical solution, which more often than not, completely bypasses the problem. Worse still, even when skills are useful, the Fighter gets literally no bonuses to using them in any meaningful way, while the caster can cast a myriad of spells to boost their skill checks into the stratosphere.

Need a Perception check? The caster can cast Acute Senses for a +30 bonus. Need a Bluff check? Glibness does the same. Then there's stuff like Focused Scrutiny, which boosts all of the nominal "face" skills, or Tears to Wine, which boosts all INT and WIS skill checks.

In the game of skills, the only thing that matters is who has the highest bonus. Everyone else literally need not apply. The Fighter, who gets no in class boosts to any of his skills, is often relegated to sitting in a corner, and twiddling his thumbs.

So when it comes down to it, 2/3 of Pathfinder is problem solving, with only 1/3 of it being combat. If you relegate the Fighter to only being useful in combat, then for the other 2/3 of the game, the fighter generally isn't having fun. Mind you, the Fighter has massive issues even being useful while inside of combat if they aren't an archer or aren't being carried by the team.

And that's the problem here. You are shrinking the tiny amount of power the Fighter has to solve problems via HP damage, and instead relegating it to just another spell the caster can cast. Casters can already do everything, even combat, better than Fighters can. Why not at least let Fighters do this?

What's worse is that the restriction doesn't even make sense from a gameplay perspective, as another poster pointed out. If a weapon isn't suitable to cut a door made out of stone or wood, why would it suddenly be suitable to cut a golem made of the same material? Do items now take damage when you attack a golem? What about an animated object? Are you telling me I can attack an animated door more easily than I can attack a regular door, or do my weapons take damage when I attack those too? Seriously, it's f!@*ing ludicrous to not allow characters to break down doors.


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The thing is, neither the Investigator nor the Magus need to rely on Dirty Trick in order to debuff somebody. The Investigator can attack normally and still make a target sickened with Sickening Offensive. Or prevent them from being able to take AOOs with Sapping Offensive (which allows you to use further combat maneuvers against them without needing the feat investment).

The Investigator is probably the ONLY 3/4 BAB class that doesn't need significant buff time to pull off combat maneuvers. And that's entirely due to how strong Studied Combat is. It's literally the strongest offensive buff in the game. The only buffs I could possibly think of that match it are day-limited buffs like Smite Evil and a high level Inquisitor Triple Judgement, and even then, that's because they often do multiple things outside of boosting a class's offense.


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This is a game where casters can shape and reshape the very cosmos itself, but martial characters can't be expected to kick down doors or shatter stone without people complaining about how unrealistic it is. Apparently Pathfinder martials don't even rise to the level of an action movie star...


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A Swashigator is an Investigator with a one level Swashbuckler dip (generally the Inspired Blade archetype) for easy Dex to Damage. It doesn't require Effortless Lace at all.

Of course, at Level 11, you could just make the Investigator Dex based by spending money on Agile. If you want to retain the skill focus, nobody does it better than the Investigator. With Studied Combat, you can still pull off combat Maneuvers. Plus, you can grab Sickening Offensive for a no save Sicken on hit.

Investigator also has a strong Will save, and if you are going to be Lawful Good, then feel free to purchase a potion of the Paladin Spell, Bestow Grace, to add your Charisma to your saves. It's a potent buff that you can spam with Alchemical Allocation.

Another alternative, is to be a Dex & Int based Kensai Bladebound Magus. You get high AC, high damage, and great saves all around (especially since you can spend all of your money on save boosters rather than enhancing a weapon or armor).

If you want to debuff, the Frostbite build is easily the best. Rime Spell Metamagic+ Enforcer + Shatter Defenses makes you really threatening to anybody not immune to cold or non-lethal.

If you didn't mind paying for a sword, you could add Cruel to that (or take the Tiefling alternate trait that let's you count as human, then take Gnome racial heritage to select their Favored class bonus to get Cruel). If somehow you were still drowning in feats, consider also Arcane Strike into Riving Strike for further debuffs. Spellcasting teammates will absolutely love you.


The Nerf to Lore Warden was insane, and completely uncalled for. I would play a Barbarian just to spite anyone who thought that the Lore Warden was overpowered.

Strength Surge alone makes the Barbarian better at Combat Maneuvers. Auspicious Mark makes them decent at skills. If you were human you could even get all knowledge skills as class skills with an alternate racial trait, on top of the human Favored Class Bonus for Barbarian, which gives you a tremendous boost to Superstition saves.

In any way you put it, Lore Warden was certainly not overpowered. Are you absolutely married to the idea of an INT based Lawful Good Tiefling? At least if you weren't INT based you could play a fairly powerful Paladin and be almost unkillable.


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Just let them hack the g!&!$#n door with any weapon of their choosing. It's a lot better than the alternative, which is to force your martial characters to sit in the corner and do nothing while the wizard solves the problem in 6 seconds with a spell (in this case, Knock).

If damage is what they contribute to the party, then let them contribute. These characters, even at level 1, are extraordinary, not extra ordinary. They deserve some narrative freedom.


But you agree that, by RAW, this should work, right?


I will note that the Evangelist, Exalted and Sentinel prestige classes all have the requirement that you must worship a single, specific deity. However, if you could only ever worship a single specific deity, wouldn't this be redundant as a requirement?

Interestingly enough, the Mystery Cultist prestige class doesn't have nearly as stringent of a requirement. It just requires that you worship an Empyreal Lord, without requiring it to be just a single specific one, nor does it require that you worship no other gods/deities besides the noted Empyreal Lord.


Can we get an Official FAQ on this?


I think it HAS to be ability drain for it to work. Ability damage doesn't ACTUALLY change your stat.


Is it actually possible to set "Aroden's Spellbane" as one of the spells that Spellbane prevents? There's no reason it won't just turn off your spellbane if you do, is there?

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