Kaouse's page

The build continues to evolve, and time continues to wane. At this point, it'll be impossible to fully pin it down and work out all the kinks in time. I think I'll just stick with Arc Zeon for now. At the very least, the GM won't have a lot of extra stuff to read through.

Oh boy.

I made the mistake of reading more into the Legendary Magus, and now I'm starting to feel the familiar pull of making yet another character concept - a completely new one this time.

Character will basically be Alucard from Hellsing. Dual-wielding pistols, magic use, decent combat ability. Definitely going to need templates, especially Vampire. Might also need to figure out how to make morale bonuses work on undead, so I can be a Crimson Countess Harbinger, on the other side of a Legendary Kensai.

The problem is... I really don't think I'll have enough time to pull this off. And, it's not like I want to abandon Arc Zeon, either. I'll see what I can do until the end, I suppose.

Rather than Han Dae Wi, I got interested in working on another character build I've had for quite some time now. That is, a Harbinger (Ravenlord) / Scholar (Harmacist).

They go together quite well, allow for a psuedo gestalt animal companion familiar that can initiate maneuvers and potentially use Spheres, and can get stupidly high poison save DCs (maybe not 60s... but I think 50s is quite achievable).

While Han Dae Wi competes with Arc Zeon as a defensive team support tank, this Harbinger Scholar build is mostly an offensive debuffer, capable of ignoring immunities with his maneuvers (at least, those with less mythic tiers than him, due to current houserules).

So, if I manage to complete him, it'll give the DM better choices in how they wish to structure the final team.

That said...completing him might take me some time. Dude was level 9 when I last played him. And his Animal Companion Familiar can be complex to build.

I suppose if I wanted to have a backup character, I could go with Han Dae-Wi, a Striker (Elemental Fist)/Mystic (Aurora Soul) I built a while back for another similar campaign. Between the constantly growing resources of Animus and Tension, it was really fun managing both resources and using both to great success.

The character ended up being quite the mobile melee blender, capable of pounce-full attacking on readied actions and the like. Could also make attacks at range, too.

The thing is... I already played it for a little while. I know it's good. It even had a few tanking disciplines, because I like playing tanks. But I haven't played an Epilektoi like Arc Zeon, yet. And I kinda want to.

That said, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to update Han Dae-Wi for this game, just in case.

@Arc Zeon/Kaouse & Sgrack/Sir Longears, what is it that gives you WIS to HP?

Sgrack already mentioned it, but I use the Epilektoi Implacability known as "Anointed Form."

Here's the full text of the ability:

Anointed Form

Benefit: The epilektoi adds their initiation modifier to their Constitution modifier when determining the total amount of hit points they gain when taking levels in the epilektoi class (add this bonus retroactively to previous levels). They may not add their initiation modifier to their hit points more than once (such as by having the Altered Life feat).

I'm a full Epilektoi 20, so this suffices for me.

No, you need to take levels in sequence, however you need not to take "dead levels". In his case, levels 3, 4 and 6 have no abilities, so he can indeed skip it. The GM clarified it somewhere.

Thank you for the clarification.

If steelwalker boots are allowed then that is a must-have purchase.

I think most dedicated martial characters at this point already have the ability to move and attack, or at least use ranged attacks. But nice find nonetheless.

Personally though, I prefer Boots of Speed, even if there are other means of accessing haste. And if you don't have access to immediate action defenses, you can never go wrong with Staggerproof boots. If you don't have access to out-of-combat recovery, Boots of the Earth are insane value.

Huh, I'm also noticing that the dude apparently took specific levels of a prestige class, left out some levels in the middle (levels 3, 4 & 6), but took the last few levels of the same prestige class and then used the left out levels of one prestige class to take more levels of another prestige classes.

Is that allowable with the Boon of the Well Wandered Traveler? Being honest, I didn't read it too deeply. I know you can mix and match prestige classes, I just didn't know if you can just grab levels of a prestige class that you care about, like taking 10 different prestige class capstones and none of the other features or some such.

Granted, I'm not planning on changing my character for it or anything. I think Arc Zeon is in a decent spot right now. Just gotta finish uploading him into an alias.

His attack rolls are a little high @ +55, but he'll be consistently taking on a ton of attack penalties. Fighting defensively (-2) for an additional DR 10/-, Martial Power (-10) for +30 temp hp, Power Attack/Deadly Aim (-6) for an additional +12 damage. Even with a few more inconsistent bonuses, I'm pretty sure the penalties come out on top.

Pasha of the Nightsands wrote:

@Sgrack: I am VERY interested in trying to activate that blood god mode and see what can be pushed to achieve.

That might be a small exaggeration on my part, lol.

As an undead, Sgrack has the rejuvenation ability to keep it from being destroyed (but it carries its phylactery with it).

To make the below 0 hp work, I got it the Lingering Spirit feat to let it keep fighting until minus its Cha (-40). Then, the Deathgrip Gauntlets veil increases the number by 10 (-50). Both the Deathless talent (basically Die Hard) and the Hard to Kill mythic ability double that number, but in PF the general rule is that consecutive multiplications are added, so now we have it be destroyed at -150. Considering our level, this margin isn't that significant, but I could not push it further. Anyway I also got Sgrack two uses of the epilektoi's implacability that lets it fight at negatives no matter what the value is for 15 rounds.

When in the negatives, Sgrack would be self-inflicting between 175-550 damage each round to gain +20 insight to hit and at least +52 insight to damage (could be more if enemies manage to damage it for more than 185 each round). The to hit bonus could likely translate to more dmg via Power Attack and more defense via Combat Expertise. Then, once per round it can also use any ability that requires martial focus (from SoM) without spending it, which will likely be a brutal strike for +56 dmg, battered for 16 rounds and -6 to will saves.

Considering Sgrack could crit on a 14+ with a x4 multiplier and rolls twice for every AOO (which is equivalent to a crit on 10+), those numbers become ridiculous.

Do you have the Epilektoi Implacability, "Will to Live" which further increases your negatives by your initiation modifier (explicitly also doubled by Lingering Spirit)?

You could probably get rid of one of your Defer Deaths for it, if you wanted.

Moreover, I'm incredibly surprised that you don't have the Akashic Veil that is built for literally this: Bindings of the Immortal.

It's on the Kheshig list, so you totally do have access to it. Not only will it greatly increase your negative HP range, but it will also make you tankier while you're down there.

Moreover, if you have access to the body bind, then it can also save you from death - which is extraordinarily useful, given that fighting in the negatives like that does leave you vulnerable to certain execute abilities, like Deadly Finish (which would even be a concern to me, despite the wide-reaching protection of Immortal Hero).

Lastly, do note that self-damaging with Dark Heart won't go into your Delayed Damage Pool. I don't know if you have some other means of self-damaging, but just keep note that Dark Heart self-damage can't be redirected or delayed by any means, IIRC.

If it matters, Arc Zeon has a few ways to increase the attack rolls of his allies.

He can passively increase the flanking bonus against enemies he helps to flank by +3 (to a total of +5), and between Patrol & the Aggressive Flanking Tactic, that should be relatively easy for any other melee combatant.

While in the Patrol, he also has the ability to use aid another on ally attack rolls by using one of his infinite AoOs, and if he uses the Masterful Coordination Tactic, he can increase that aid another bonus by an additional +3 (to a total of +5).

If he spends mythic power on the Warleader Sphere Mastery, he can use both tactics simultaneously, though that's a bit expensive at the moment.

Lastly, he's got access to Expert Feint, so if his Feint check succeeds, he can deny an enemy of Dex for 1 full round. That should definitely help an ally who attacks Touch AC.

There's a lot that Arc Zeon can do - but he can't do everything at once. He doesn't have any innate increases to his action economy, so he'll mostly be either focused on his own role of tanking for the party, or filling up whatever holes may exist in the final party's team composition.

Another weakness is that his ability to aid his team is also fairly limited in range. Aiding or protecting allies outside of his Patrol range is pretty difficult. So, large scale battles fought on multiple fronts might be more complicated for him to handle. And without Limitless Range, it's not like he can attack from super far away, either. Though admittedly... his mobility ain't exactly bad, though.

@Kaouse: We're eventually going to be getting into epic-level gear and some of the artifacts requested are already beyond +10, so I don't see Foe-Biter's activation as a Bane weapon causing any issues.

Psionic-Magic Transparency is just there to make it easier to interact with effects from both. Some things still only affect one or the other and Psibane is one of those, although I'd probably also allow it to interact with those who use psychic magic as well just because it's themed as an anti-psionic option.

I thought I mentioned Limitless Range in the opening spiel about mythic changes and banned content, but apparently forgot to. Limitless Range is banned because I know of a few "orbital strike" builds that ranged characters can use to snipe foes from a theoretically infinite distance away with no penalties. Hopefully that doesn't change your build too much since this kind of got sprung on you at the last minute.

I don't have an issue with Dual Path, but just remember how it's worded since it's not a complete extra path in and of itself.

Oh, that's entirely alright.

Not gonna lie, if we were given a few more mythic tiers, I totally would have made this an orbital strike build.

Still, without Limitless Range, I have no need to take Champion, and thus have just decided to stick with Guardian + The Gifted, with no need for Dual Path.

I ended up getting rid of my Deific Obedience, since I realized that it gave me an SLA, and I want this character to have zero spellcasting whatsoever.

I also got rid of a few of the feats that let me fight on below 0 HP, since I figured that such a thing is more of Sgrack's domain. I'm probably better off not going below 0 if I can help it, since I think Immortal Hero might not protect me once that happens.

Instead, I picked up Stalwart & Improved Stalwart for more stacking DR/- whenever I fight defensively. I also picked up a few feats to help with Radiant Dawn maneuvers, reallocating essence whenever I initiate a boost/counter/enter a stance.

2. Something for hiding from divinations, or something for silent takedowns, but I'm open to other kinds of spy/assassin-themed artifacts

Might I suggest Third Eye: Conceal, a non-mythic Psionic item that grants you constant Mind Blank?

Alternatively, Legendary Items can grant you the Undetecable ability, which makes you immune to detection & scrying whenever you become invisible. Granted, that's not entirely the same thing as immunity to divination.

Also, I'm surprised it doesn't have a Mythic Fix or something applied to it, given how powerful it is.

I've been treating the Gestalt Mythic Paths as if we had taken a free Dual Path Mythic Feat, where you gain access to another path and their intro abilities, but don't gain anything further.

But looking at a number of other people's characters, it appears that we do in fact gain a Mythic Tier ability from each one of them, beyond just their intro abilities.

If that's the case, then that's great, since it opens me up to take Limitless Range from my Champion side, without giving up Sacrificial Shield from my Guardian side.

Also, if my Legendary Item Major Artifact abilities aren't limited by my mythic tier, then that means that I don't need to take Mythic Paragon just yet.

Funnily enough, I'm thinking of replacing it with Dual Path, so that I could theoretically gain access to a third mythic path (The Gifted), but I'm wondering if that might be pushing it...

I should probably ask, but are there any issues with applying Foe-Biting to a +10 weapon? The new version of Foe-Biting now just gives the weapon Bane, but does that work if the weapon is already +10?

Speaking of which, I picked up Psibane, which deals extra damage against psionic opponents but also cannot be wielded by psionic characters without giving them negative levels. Since Psionic-Magic transparency is in effect, does this act as a Magic-bane weapon, that deals extra damage to ALL magic users, but also cannot be used by magic users without giving them a negative level?

I'm thinking of fluffing the Shield as a "Natural World Overcomes The Supernatural" type of Artifact. A Prime Mover/Holy Grail, that can only be wielded by humans, meant to be used to take down the gods and protect the meek. I'm thinking of calling it, "Vitalis: Life's Shield" as it not only protects life, but also increases the vitality of those around it. This is partially represented by the Everlasting ability it imparts onto it's wielder, and partly by the Green-Touched ability, where it grows thorns and vines to aid in it's protective abilities (increasing DR by double it's enhancement, but only for the first attack that hits per round).

Okay, it was pointed out to me that I could buy some Wishes to boost The First Flame's wisdom, so I just need to figure out the telepathy thing.

If you're still conscious about your Wisdom, you could do what I did, and trade a class capstone for the alternate capstone ability, "Perfect Body, Flawless Mind."

It gives you a +8 to your stats that can be split up however you wish. I gave up the Fighter's Weapon Mastery for it, cuz I thought it was a worthwhile trade.

Okay, for all intents and purposes, my Epilektoi / Legendary Fighter is complete!

Behold, Arc Zeon - Humanity's Zenith!

I've done what I could to complete eschew all forms of traditional magical spellcasting, while making sure he remained 100% human.

He makes liberal use of Path of War disciplines as well as Spheres of Might.

His main duty is to fulfill the role of "Party Tank" which he can do in several ways.

Without using actions he can increase party AC and give the party DR/- vs incoming attacks, so long as they remain within 20 ft of him.

With immediate actions, he can parry enemy attacks, and even redirect enemy attacks towards himself. He can even give allies total cover from one direction that blocks both attacks and spells alike.

With Combat Patrol from the Guardian Sphere, he can increase his threatened area, and move around it to support allies further, buffing their attacks, AC or saves as needed. This also puts him in range to utilize his Impossible Warrior abilities to parry spells aimed at anyone within his reach.

Offensively, he's deceptively weak in base, but he has access to a number of explicitly stackable bane-esque abilities that should greatly help bolster his damage numbers in a full attack. And without a full attack, he still has access to Mythic Vital Strike + Berserker Sphere's Brutal Strike to help keep him a threat.

Defensively is where he shines, though. Dude has a ton of HP for a guy with no templates, since he adds his WIS to his CON for hit points. Moreover, he's pretty much immune to most methods of killing him without dealing hit point damage directly, due to one of Epilektoi's capstone abilities, Immortal Hero.

Then he has DR that's difficult to bypass due to Legendary Fighter's Armor Mastery ability. He can further convert a small amount of the damage he takes to non-lethal damage via Robust Physique. Moreover, since he isn't knocked unconcious by nonlethal damage thanks to Unstoppable, he's more than capable of abusing Forbidden Consumption Technique to freely power anything that requires the expenditure of martial focus.

Thanks to Luck of the Mortal Races, this generally means that killing him requires the enemy to not only deplete his hit point bar, but ALSO max out his nonlethal damage. Even then, he can persist beyond the point where he will die for a short amount of time at least once per day, and even if he does die, can be easily brought back to life with regular healing.

Oh, and he can use his Major Artifact Shield to absorb damage for him at least once a round, as well as absorbing critical hits. So he's really strong vs singular big hits as well as vs multiple small hits. You really need multiple big hits to pressure him.

Of course, simply being unkillable does no good if the party is dead, so he's actually capable of some modicum of party healing as well. Healing/buffing the party, debuffing enemies, tremendous defenses, and non-inconsequential offenses. He's also pretty decent as a party face, thanks to Master of Words shenanigans.

I'll start making an alias for him over the next few days. Feel free to let me know if I've made any mistakes with the build.

I am very much nearing completion on my Epilektoi / Legendary Fighter. At the moment, they're on a Myth-weaver's sheet, but once they're done, I'll transfer them to a new Alias.

Just wanted to ask, but how many Mythic Abilities do we get? I know we get 2 bonus mythic feats as well as 2 Gestalt Mythic Paths, but that doesn't actually give us more than 1 mythic ability per tier, correct?

In retrospect, Legendary Item has the following blurb:

A mythic creature bonded to a legendary item can use a number of that item’s legendary abilities equal to or less than her tier. If the legendary item has more legendary abilities than the bonded creature has tiers, the creature can select which abilities it gains access to when it first wields, wears, or possesses the item, but must select all of the persistent abilities first, after which it can select nonpersistent abilities. For example, if a legendary item has the intelligence ability along with other non-persistent abilities, a 1st-tier character can’t manifest any of its powers other than intelligence until she gains another tier.

So, I'd probably chose all 10 abilities of the Legendary Item, but only be able to activate a number equal to my tier, starting with the persistent abilities first.

Fine by me, either way. As long as the item counts as a Major artifact to start, then that's all I really need, I think.

@Kaouse: Yes, but be aware that certain changes and limitations are in place. Those are outlined under the section listing all the mythic fixes in the OP.

Okay, so if I take Boon of the Legend-Wielder, then I could choose a Major Artifact made via Legendary Item, correct?

Just to confirm, it gains 10 tiers worth of abilities, correct?

Granted, it'll be bonded to a Mythic character with only 1 Mythic Tier, so that would definitely greatly limit it's power.

But regardless, that's still perfect for me nonetheless.

Decided to switch out the Mythic Armor for a Mythic Shield, btw. Build has now evolved to be Fully Captain America.

I'm trying to see how busted I can make the character without adding spellcasting or similar systems.

But I'm also still trying to keep it in the role of Tank for the party, if at all possible.

Course... without templates or veils or the like, I'll probably end up with one of the lower ACs in the party, lol.

But that just means it's more cost effective for the enemy to hit me instead of my allies, and that's exactly what I want to happen, heh.

My Epilektoi / Legendary Fighter is definitely coming along pretty well.

I'm planning on making them a 100% pure human with no templates. Their stats might not be as high as everyone else's, but I'm certain that I can still make them quite competitive with everyone else. They'll also be insanely difficult to actually kill.

Planning on taking Boon of the Apex Entity to give them the Peak Human Deific Talent. The two talents in this vein will be "Luck of the Mortal races" and "Careful Aim."

If possible, I'd want to take Boon of the Legend-Wielder in order to turn my Armor into a Major Artifact. Alas, the Major Artifact armors that currently exist... are really really bad, and also restrict my DEX. I'd much prefer it if I could just use the rules provided in Legendary Item to make it a Major Artifact.

Technically, while 6 and 10 are the maximum amount of abilities a Legendary Item can have as a minor and major artifact respectively, the minimum amount of abilities to qualify would be 3 and 6 - the earliest point you could select the Legendary Item mythic ability a 2nd and 3rd time respectively.

I'd be perfectly fine with a 6-ability major artifact Armor of my choosing, if 10 is too much or something.

I'm noticing that we have the option to choose a Major/minor artifact as one of our boons.

Could we simply elect to choose a Legendary Item, only with the item locked to 6 tiers of power for a Minor artifact, and 10 tiers of power for a Major artifact?

Kaouse wrote:

Hell yeah. Current build is as follows: Unchanined Monk (Stupor Monk) 20 || Mageknight (Knightknight) 20.

Mostly going full Martial, so I'm also planning on taking the Spark of Inspiration feat for access to Path of War maneuvers.

There is a legendary version of the monk class, so I believe you can't use the unchained version.

Aww, so even a 3rd party archetype that doesn't work with the Legendary class isn't allowed?

Unfortunate, but not the end of the world. Guess I can always build an Epilektoi / Legendary Fighter gestalt, and just be a ludicrous tank.

Hell yeah. Current build is as follows: Unchanined Monk (Stupor Monk) 20 || Mageknight (Knightknight) 20.

Mostly going full Martial, so I'm also planning on taking the Spark of Inspiration feat for access to Path of War maneuvers.

Is Recruitment still open to new interest? I have a ton of character concepts I can get up to speed relatively quickly, if need be.

My Magus/Swashbuckler Mia Reigh, the Phoenix Blade is almost complete.

Just wanted to make sure, but Mythic Traditions aren't in play, right?

What questions are still outstanding that need my direct input? I know Sir Longears has answered a few, which I greatly appreciate, so unsure what I need to address.

Are Oaths allowed?

If they are, should Oath of Poverty give half of the Oath points to account for Automatic Bonus Progression?

As for Oath of Offerings, I propose two options:

Option A.) You can give up half of the current 440,000 WBL (i.e. 220,000 gp left) but only gain half of the amount of points (i.e. 3 Oath points instead of 7).

Option B.) You can give up half of the original 880,000 WBL (i.e. 0 gp left) but you gain the full benefit of Oath of Offerings (i.e. 7 Oath points)

The other Oaths don't directly impact Wealth By Level that much and as such aren't affected by the presence of Automatic Bonus Progression. However, we should invoke a gentleman's agreement to only take Oaths that actually have a meaningful restriction.

What say you?

After giving it more thought, I think that if Oaths are to be allowed, the Oath of Poverty should be nerfed to only give half of the usual amount of Oath Points. This is to represent the benefits of Automatic Bonus Progression.

Then, Oath of Offerings could work either way, with the aforementioned Option A granting half of the Oath points, and Option B granting the full amount.

IIRC, these are the only two Oaths that directly affect WBL, so nothing else needs to change. Granted... some Oaths are probably too easy to circumvent, so we should probably just implement a Gentleman's agreement to make sure the Oaths we take actually matter.

What do you guys think?

We should make sure whether or not Oaths are even still allowed, first.

Quite frankly, they're a bit OP. Disallowing them wholesale isn't a bad idea, IMHO.

I suppose that's true, yeah. Oath of Poverty would also work.

Are Oaths still allowed?

I'm considering taking the Oath of Offering.

Basically, you give up half of your WBL in exchange for 7 Oath Points.

Of course, with Automatic Bonus Progression, we're already at half WBL.

So the question is, how much gold would a character who took Oath of Offering have remaining?

Option A.) 220,000 gp (Oath takes half of current 440,000 WBL)

Option B.) 0 gp (Oath takes half of original 880,000 WBL)

I'm perfectly fine with selecting Option B (in fact, I'd encourage it from a balance perspective), but I just want to make sure of the answer before continuing.

I'm actually in the process of "anti-optimizing" my numbers. I'm firmly in the belief that abilities and spells make more of a difference than numbers do, so this would be quite interesting to see play out.

Combat, Faith, Magic and Social, huh? I can swing it.

I've been making some changes to adjust my character's stats to better fit the ABP rules + Bench Pressing table. Still, there are a couple of things I need to know before really finalizing the build.

Namely, what is the Feat situation, again? Are we still doing 1 feat per level, or are we back down to regular feats per level? I certainly wouldn't mind going back down to the regular feat rules (1 feat every other level). The free Background Feat alone should be enough of a bonus, especially if we're still doing Elephant in the Room.

Aside from that, Traits. Exactly how many traits do we have? It's really unclear, and I would strongly prefer not to have to select 1 trait for each category when there are at least 14 categories. Should we just assume the regular 2 free traits?

Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to give too many freebies if you want a balanced game. Especially at this level. The game is remarkably easy to break, even with regular rules, as I hope I've proven with the two 1pp-only characters I posted earlier (The Fighter & The Mage).

For the purposes of the Magus / Swashbuckler that I'm building, I think replacing Kensai with the Arcane Weaponeer archetype from Spheres of Power will probably be enough to reign my character's AC to Bench Pressing levels.

But, I would prefer if I don't have to adjust the stats, so I will also advocate for use of the Legendary Gifts. Cuz the alternative to that is just... casting the Wish spell, whether by one's self or by Planar Binding genies.

And quite frankly, planar binding and the like is probably the top of the list of things to ban from a caster perspective, if balance is the goal.

Notably though, I don't think Arcane Weaponeer Magus will work with Legendary Magus, and I don't think Cutting Blur Swashbuckler will work with Legendary Swashbuckler. I hope that's not a problem.

This is my Level 20 single class Fighter build using only 1pp materials, and he completely decimates the table. Dude was built primarily to take on the Greater Beastmass (including level 30 threats like Cthulu).

His AC is a little subpar, but he can still reach the blue AC benchmark with just Shapechange (whose bonuses are too variable to be included in the sheet) and Fighting Defensively (since he more than has the attack bonus to spare).

As strong as he is, I still consider him massively weaker than my level 19 Mage, an Exploiter Pact Wizard with a dip in Crossblooded Sorcerer.

The Mage has lower numbers than the Fighter, but a vast amount of shenanigans and a set of powerful minions. Originally, the build abused possession shenanigans to keep the minions forever, but this version is actually the slightly nerfed version that doesn't employ that.

Long story short, numbers mean relatively little when you have access to various one-shot ability combos that completely trivialize encounters without exceedingly specific counters to each combo. Quite frankly, 3pp material gives more widespread access to a number of these counters and arguably aids late game balance rather than destroys it.

For example, I could Blood Money and cast Limited Wish to copy Geas/Quest, ignoring it's 10 minute cast time. In an instant, anyone not wearing Mind-Buttressing armor, immune to compulsion, or immune to curses, is automatically taken control over. No Save.

Or I could cast Time Stop, litter the ground next to my opponent with countless Explosive Runes (they literally last forever and have no/trivial cost), and then summon a monster capable of Greater Dispel Magic but with CL too low to beat yours. On a failed area dispel check, all Explosive Runes in the area go off, anyone within 10 ft of the rune gets no save, so unless you have the ability to move as an immediate action... GG.

Alternatively, there's something as simple as casting a Quickened Mass Debilitating Pain, followed by a Polar Midnight. Even if you make your save vs Debilitating Pain, you're still Dazed for one round. And if you don't move from your square while under the effects of Polar Midnight, you automatically become transmuted to ice and die. No Save. So unless you are immune to compulsions or pain effects or Daze, it's pretty much GG.

None of this gives a damn what my numbers are. Hence why Wizards and the like rule high level play. 3pp at least opens up some measure of counterplay, IMHO.

I think 3pp is blamed for a lot of unbalance, but at level 20, the biggest source of unbalance is 1pp 9th level spellcasters. Someone already posted an Oracle build. Ravener Hunter is a 1pp Inquisitor archetype.

At the moment, I was working on a Magus / Swashbuckler build. But I'll have to make some changes with the revised rules etc. Probably best to hold off for a bit until they're finalized.

Think I'll go with a debuffer build.

Scholar (Harmacist) | Harbinger (Ravenlord)

Scholar can already get a psuedo-gestalt companion. So I wonder if there's more ways they can push it.

Is Sentence of the Sinlord a pre-made campaign? If so, that definitely bodes well for ease of running.

Funnily enough, I already have a character that's mostly already built for this.

It's a Mystic/Striker. Two classes built off of the ever-replenishing resources of Animus and Tension respectively. I actually got to play it once, a few years back, and it preformed swimmingly well. Shouldn't take much to update it.

Only question now is, do I want to dust off and polish this old build, or perhaps try something new? A few days ago, I made a very promising level 1 gestalt build of a Warder/Voyager that I definitely wouldn't mind seeing preform at higher level...

I have no qualms whatsoever with 3pp material or with Legendary Classes.

However, I would prefer NOT to be forced to use a Legendary class if I didn't wish to.

I know one of the characters I had previously built preferred the non-Legendary Barbarian to the Legendary one, cuz it seemed like a few things I needed for the build didn't fully translate over.

Granted, said build was a tristalt that DID end up using two other Legendary classes in it, so it's not like I'm opposed to using it. Just don't want to be forced to.

I'm always down to play a Level 20 gestalt game.

Sorry, it's probably my fault that things have stalled.

I was behind, and put off catching up on the thread. It didn't help that work had been particularly grueling these last few weeks.

Things have slowed down at work now, but I fear it's too late to make up for it.

Oof, did we already start combat? I am really, really late.

At any rate, I made a few alterations to the character.

Dropped the Wasp Familiar with the Protector archetype and just went with Dreamed Secrets instead. Improved Spell Capacity for 5th level spells opens up 4th level wizard spells, which helps out more with versatility.

Since the character already had pretty decent combat stats (highest of the party, I think?), it didn't really make sense to double down on survivability like that, even if it would fit the character's aesthetic.

I also changed a few items as well, but not to a huge extent. Character is mostly the same.

Offered up PCs to date by Players 20240926

These is more interest, but as yet these are the only PCs posted I think.

Player:andreww.
PC:Korvus Kem N Human sorcerer L21
Player: Critzible
PC:Galacta Knight CN Human Ranger L20 / Loremaster L1
Player: Critzible
PC:Priscilla NG Halfling Unchained Rogue L20/Fighter L1
Player: AGM Lemming.
PC:Cirdan Nowë LN Elf Wizard L21
Player: GM Panic
PC:Rosa Luminasss LN LE Half-Elf Cleric L20/Bard L1

Uh, the player for Galacta Knight is me, Kaouse, not Critzible.

@Kaouse. You should still be able to take the feat that gives you two more traits. ??

That is what I ended up doing, but it does mean that I have an extra trait I don't particularly care for. If I could take the drawback instead, then I could replace Additional Traits with another feat instead. And I could always use another feat!

Ey, he's back!

In that case, I had a question: I noticed that we only got 1 trait instead of the normal 2; Can we take a drawback to gain access to a second trait?

It's kind of funny, but as I was looking through my character sheet to make sure I was compliant with the character creation guidelines, I noticed that the character was small, wielded a Lance as well as a shield, and had the ability to fly.

In other words, my character will henceforth be known as Galacta Knight.

My mount will be known as "Galacta's Wings" and will have a mind of its own.

...and HP of its own: 14d10 ⇒ (7, 7, 6, 2, 1, 1, 5, 2, 3, 4, 3, 8, 9, 1) = 59

I noticed the force missile mage too. As a result, I strongly considered Shiba Protector, but ultimately I decided against it. I'm happy with my Loremaster pick for now.

I hope things work out well for the GM's family.

I think I've got it. I'm going to play a Ranger 20/Monk 1.

After playing around with the build a ton, I finally settled on Ranger 20 / Loremaster 1.

I decided to delve a bit more into spellcasting & skill use for the Ranger.

The actual build is pretty much done, though I have yet to really work on the animal companion. That said, I already know what I want for it. It's going to be a Falcon, and it's going to be the character's mount.

The character is a human girl abandoned in the forest and raised by halflings. Hating the humans who abandoned her, and wanting to fit in better with the halflings around her, she makes constant use of Alter Self via a Greater Hat of Disguise. This, in combination with the Undersized Mount feat, allows her to ride her equally small Falcon animal companion.

She is the protector of the forest and all who call it home. She is Nia Holiscus, the Wrathful Nature Spirit!

Ranger HD: 20d10 ⇒ (8, 3, 5, 4, 5, 1, 1, 7, 9, 3, 6, 8, 10, 2, 8, 9, 7, 10, 3, 4) = 113
Loremaster HD: 1d6 ⇒ 3

I think I've got it. I'm going to play a Ranger 20/Monk 1.

Let's see if I can roll up a character.

Pretty decent stats, IMHO.

Are non core archetypes for core classes allowed? Kinda interested in an Exploiter Wizard, or a Mutation Warrior Fighter.

Oh cool, Kirth is back.

Question: The Kirthfinder Fighter has the Warlord ability, which gives them access to what seems like a psuedo-Leadership, with the following restrictions:

Leader of Men: You can attract a body of men-at-arms led by an above-average fighter. This works similarly to the Leadership feat (Chapter 5), using your ranks in Knowledge (Warfare) rather than Diplomacy, but you can attract only fighters, warriors, or experts (grooms, smiths, sappers/miners, etc.) with this ability.

Are there any race requirements on this men-at-arms or the above-average Fighter?

I was kinda thinking of making a low level calvary squad of flying soldiers with low level drakes.

If I choose the Mount Talent, can I also recruit animal followers, or am I restricted to an animal cohort?

You gain Skill Focus (Handle Animal) as a bonus feat. In addition, you gain the service of a loyal and trusty steed to carry you into battle. This mount functions similarly to a druid’s bonded companion (per the mark of the wild ability), having a maximum CR equal to 3 less than your number of ranks in Handle Animal.

...

Special: The creature generally is one that is suitable as a mount for you (e.g., boar, camel, dog, horse, pony, or wolf), but with referee approval you can choose one or more animals other than a mount―a hunting hawk, for example, or a pair of attack dogs, subject to the normal total CR limit.

Does Mount force me to choose between animal cohort or animal followers?

Also, any qualms with the Swarm template being applied to companions / cohorts?

Okay, I think I'm just about done. Still have about a million gold left to spend, but I'll save that in case I made an error with my Automatic Bonus Progression.

At any rate, the character should be good to go.