I could use some advice about how to deal with my gaming group. We have a small group of four players, one of which is often unable to attend due to health reasons. The trouble is that with one exception they are very casual gamers, neither optimizers nor avid role-players. They are wonderful people, though, and we’re having a good time together.
The trouble is that I’m starting to feel some DM burnout. The game is going well but being a gamer I’m always looking to improve my game. Now there is certainly room for improvement (I’m a pretty sloppy DM and more hack’n’slash than heavy role-playing) but there doesn’t really seem to be a point to it if the players aren’t following suit.
As I said, they are pretty casual gamers. There is little or no preparation between games (again, with one exception) and they are having some trouble figuring their bonuses, not to mention playing complex characters like spell-casters. Maybe I’m being spoiled by my PBP games, but there I see good tactics, creative use of spells, general helpfulness and some really good role-playing to top it off. Now it may be an unfair comparison, but I find it hard to improve when I am not being challenged to either create more role-playing opportunities or making the game more tactically challenging. As it is now, ramping up the difficulty only threatens a TPK or turns the game into a grind.
I don’t want to bash my players. As I said, they are great guys, we’ve been playing for years and our game is steadily improving. The thing is that I want more out of it. Gaming on a weekly basis, I would like something more than a purely casual game. I would appreciate some good advice. And yeah, I did try talking to my players.
Do you homebrew stuff or run modules/APs? I've been highly impressed with the Paizo premade adventures thus far, and they certainly help ease the stress of GMing. And many of them present great opportunities to roleplay, as well as some occasionally challenging combat, where communication and strategy are more important. All these things I help make the players better, by making them think in their characters shoes both dramatically and mechanically, and it helps the GM because you're able to get the depth of a more serious game without putting in the hours of work.
We do run Paizo APs, and that has certainly helped improve the game.
This is pretty much my game too. no advice but i wanted to dot this thread
There are two possibilities: you're screwed, or you aren't. Let's look at the possibility you aren't and see what we can do.
I'd suggest the most useful thing would be communication. In between sessions, try to keep up a stream of game-related e-mails. I don't mean "hey, I polished my dice today", but rather things like "Doug, I found a neat way to use spell that you might not have thought of..."
Help the players to update their character sheets. Help them to condense the amount of information to keep them from being overwhelmed at the table. (Do you really need to see the source for all the little bonuses that make up your Perception modifier?) My groups all tend to use the monster/NPC stat block because it's clean and organized. It's not a good format for new players to build characters with, but to run them... it can't be beat.
Also, if you've got new players (mostly), a good thing to do might be to involve more experienced players. That's hard, but a good part of tactics and game mechanics aren't obvious. You can't read the book and inherently realize some of the sneaky ways to position your PC, or to combine spells, or feats, or, or, or. Having a couple experienced players "show off" and help guide takes the load off your shoulders while giving examples of what works and what doesn't.
|
Also, if you've got new players (mostly), a good thing to do might be to involve more experienced players. That's hard, but a good part of tactics and game mechanics aren't obvious. You can't read the book and inherently realize some of the sneaky ways to position your PC, or to combine spells, or feats, or, or, or. Having a couple experienced players "show off" and help guide takes the load off your shoulders while giving examples of what works and what doesn't.
I think ultimately it comes down to your players wanting to get better. I am currently in a game that started off with 2 experienced gamers and 3 newbies. After 8 levels of "showing off" + DM assistance, 1 of the newbie is now trending toward average while the other 2 remained relatively inexperienced. The difference is that the 1 who got better really cared while the other 2 I feel just like show up and hit things.
So I say:
1. Explain to your players what your expectations are. They aren't going to be able to read your mind and understand how you feel w/out you telling them. If they care about your game, they'll try to improve with your help.
2. If things don't get better, recruit new people that you know are experienced and form a new, experienced group. If you don't have time to do two groups at once, take your beginner group to a certain point then end it.
Sorry if the point 2 sounds a bit harsh. Please understand that in no way am I saying your casual gamers aren't worth your time; there are other ways to stay connected with them in RL. But if an experienced group is what you're looking for, it is often easier to find the right people instead of trying to change someone. Life is too short to be not playing the kind of game you enjoy. Good luck!
Experienced players or not, there are always going to be those who role play, those who hack-n-slash, and those who combine the two. I play in two groups (with some player cross-over)and most of us prefer role playing. We love a fight, and expect at least one good one each session, but we interact in between the combats through the characters.
One way to entice people to role play is to require everyone to submit a character background to the GM when a new party is started. And something more than, "Jorg is a tough guy who likes to fight. His father was a fighter and his mother a tavern wench."
Get them to do a detailed background, named parents and place of birth, who trained them initially to be a fighter, rogue, wizard, etc. And what is their motivation for going out into the world and seeking adventure? Reward players who put effort into it, perhaps by giving a few extra bonus points to the skills that define their class.
Now the GM has something to work with. Example: Jorg is a fighter who's father died in the local event called "The Night of the Bandit Raid". His sword was taken by the bandits, a blade passed down from his father. Jorg hopes someday to find the killer of his father and recover the blade.
Ask the player for a little detail on the sword; distinctive pommel, perhaps an iron eagle claw clutching a blue stone.
As the game goes on, in a tavern the party overhears a story of a brawl a few weeks back and how a gang of thugs killed a local. The leader of the thugs had a sword with an eagle claw clutching a blue gem.
You don't have to turn your adventure into "Searching for Jorg's Sword" but locals think the bandits traveled north (the direction you want the party to go anyway). Now the player of Jorg has an additional reason to want to go north. And maybe now he interacts more with npc's they meet to ask about the sword.
Imagine if every character had something in their background that the GM could work into the adventure to encourage role play? Kiran doesn't like to travel in boats because of a childhood accident, Larp believes in omens and looks for a meaning in simple coincidence, Thark the half-orc wants people to accept him as civilized and not a brute, etc.
You work in a ferry to cross a wide river on the journey, Larp finds an acorn in his bedroll three days in a row, and taverns don't automatically bring spoons and forks to the table for Thark.
Maybe the players find creative ways to get Kiran onto the ferry (Like knocking out Mr. T on A-Team for plane rides).
Maybe the party spots an old lightning struck oak tree standing alone in a field and Larp insists they check it out. (Something inside the tree, a clue for the adventure perhaps?)
Maybe the players are amused by people's reactions to Thark, or perhaps they begin to insist he be treated as well as they are treated and become involved in his background desire to be looked upon fairly.
And maybe they find they enjoy playing a character rather than a bunch of stats.
Getting them to focus on a background is a great way to get players more involved. I feel that it can get the player to become more attached to their characters and if the GM integrates the backgrounds of his player's characters into the campaign then it become intriguing because they feel like more part of the story.
However, speaking from my own personal experience, actually getting players to create decent character backgrounds can be a challenge. The problem with players not being able to create good backgrounds can be any or all of the following: poor writing skills, not knowing where to start, not knowing their campaign material and they may need guidance .
Poor Writing Skills:
This is a not a big problem they just need to be able to write well enough to communicate. Heck they don't even have to write if they can orally story-tell their backgrounds.
Not knowing where to start:
This I find was the most common problem because unless they have a good grasp of the creative process then it is only natural that they get stuck. This isn't to say that they don't have an imagination but being imaginative and being creative are actually two different things, being also an artist I know this better than most.
Places to start can include character creation because if your players create a character that is based around a theme than that is a good basis of who their characters are. I have been finding that Pathfinder traits are a good place to start for creating a background history as well as those traits are basic backgrounds in themselves without any details so this can give your characters direction. If you use 3.5 Flaws or Tome of Secret Drawbacks these too can add to character background. Let them know that if they take any of these then they should make an effort so that they make sense together, however if even they don't make sense together at the start they can still create interesting backgrounds by creatively making them make sense. Always have at least one conflict in your character's past in some manner or form because this is often the driving force of why your character does what he does. Lastly, make sure that you require the backgrounds to name names because this then allows the GM to integrate the past of the characters into the future of the campaign.
Not Knowing the Campaign Material:
It is very important that your player's know the world they are playing in, even if in a general view but greater locally. If you are doing a homebrew then you need to type out a short synopses material and then a more detail report on the world they are playing in. Having maps that the players can have access too with descriptions of locations can also help the players know where to start with backgrounds for their characters.
Guidance :
Sometimes it will be needed that you help walk them through their backgrounds. Ask them questions and then have them include their answers into their backgrounds.
Lastly let me reiterate that this only gets them more involved if you include their character's past to be effected by the future. This could involve finding the one's who torched their village, they find a lost love, they recover the family sword and so on. This makes them feel that they are a part of the story instead of you just sitting back telling them a story and throwing some tactical stuff at them to handle.
|
It sounds like Pathfinder Society would be good for your group. There is just enough backstory and flavor without it being too much for players to handle. Also, it jumps from one encounter to another, so they don't have to come up with whatever their character is doing during "down-time."
It also allows the players to experiment with different characters, to find what is easiest/funnest for them to play.
The "G" in RPG, we all know, stands for "game".
The point of the game is to spend time with friends, or at least like-minded strangers.
Your casual gamer friends are probably better equipped to "win" at this than many who have mastered every word of the rules. Your sole task is to make certain they have a good time.
To this end, if they are having trouble with the level of calculations required, simplify them. Change to a different ruleset if need be, or run something like E6. If E6 isn't the sweet spot, consider something like Microlite d20, FUDGE, or the Ladder. These are all excellent systems that are made for playability first. Pathfinder is not. Pathfinder rewards rule mastery.
Make the rules as easy as possible, and the in-game events challenging enough to hold their interest.
Everything else is vanity. But all GMs are entitled to a little vanity.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My main group considers our sessions to be "boys night out" sessions first and foremost and "RPG sessions" a distant second.
Two of the players are pretty involved and enjoy role playing, but one is in the process of getting married and the other has an infant child to manage. So they have their piorities right. We sometimes go several weeks between sessions.
I am more of a serious gamer and spend a lot of time on campaign and character development. But when one of the other more serious gamers in the group asked why I "work so hard" when I GM I pretty much honestly replied "Because I like to do it." So if I bust my butt for a couple of weeks making maps, building terrain and fleshing out campaign details and nobody at the table expresses any appreciation for my work, I don't care. I did it because I enjoyed it. It's important to me to run a very well thought out and carefully planned campaign. If the players want to be casual about it, well, that's how they have fun. So I just accept what level of immersion they are willing to give. The two players who have a strong interest in the game and I exchange emails regularly about the campaign, about rules questions and about their characters. The other gamers rarely answer a group email or send an email on their own initiative. It's no biggie.
My secondary gaming group is much more serious about gaming. Everyone at the table is some level of optimizer. There are frequent email exchanges about rules, the campaign, characters, or even related things like movies, TV shows or books that might have a connection to the campaign. In some cases I've engaged in other games with people from that group.
But in all honesty, I enjoy the "casual" group more. It's more relaxed, and feels more like a night out with the gang than the more serious group. I enjoy both a lot, but I've known and gamed with the "casual" group for almost a decade, and in some ways gaming with them is like slipping into a comfortable pair of shoes. I enjoy that.