Potency and Potions

Friday, June 29, 2018

Earlier this week, Logan gave you the skinny on Resonance and how it interacts with some iconic and all-new magic items. If you missed out on Logan's explanation of Resonance, you might want to take a look here before reading on, because we're going to come back to it at the end of the blog. You got how Resonance works? Good. Now forget about it, we're going to talk about weapons instead.

Potency and Properties

Unlike items with the invested trait or ones that you activate, weapons typically require no Resonance to use. You just pick one up and swing (or shoot, or sling, or thrust, or throw), and the magic weapon unleashes its punch, often with potency. Think as a weapon's potency as its "plus" and more. Potency still grants an item bonus to your attack rolls with the weapon, but now it also increases the damage dealt by an additional weapon die for each point of potency bonus. For example, let's say you find a +1 longsword buried in an otyugh's dung heap. Regardless of its current soiling, that weapon grants not only a +1 item bonus to attack rolls, but on a successful hit it deals 2d8 + Strength modifier damage, instead of the standard 1d8 + Strength modifier. A +2 longsword would instead grant a +2 item bonus to attacks and deal 3d8 + Strength modifier damage, and so on.

Of course, potency is only a part of the story. Magic weapons can also have properties. The maximum potency and the number of properties a weapon can have are based on that weapon's quality. Standard weapons can't have potency or properties, while expert-quality weapons can have up to +2 potency and one property. Master-quality weapons can have up to +4 potency and two properties, and legendary weapons can be +5 weapons and have three properties. Sometimes, special materials can affect the number of properties a magic weapon can possess. Since cold iron resists magic, weapons made of cold iron have one fewer property. Conversely, weapons made of highly magical orichalcum can have one additional property, but because the metal is so rare and difficult to work, these weapons must be legendary.

Both potency and property are imbued within a suitable weapon by etching magical runes upon it. Runes can be fairly easily removed or added (assuming the quality of the weapon allows it), and can even be found etched on a runestone, allowing them to be transferred separately from a weapon. Say you just found a handful of weapon property runestones in your adventure. What properties might they be? Well, let's take a look at one of the favorites of good and undead-hating clerics.

Disrupting Rune 5+

Method of Use etched, melee weapon


A disrupting weapon deals extra damage to undead. Undead hit by an attack with a disrupting weapon takes extra positive damage and additional effects on a critical hit.

Type standard; Level 5; Price 150 gp

The weapon deals 1d6 extra positive damage. On a critical hit, the undead is enfeebled 1 until the end of your next turn.

Type greater; Level 15 (Uncommon), Price 6,200 gp

The weapon deals 2d6 extra positive damage. On a critical hit, the undead creature must attempt a DC 32 Fortitude save with the following effects.

Success The target is enfeebled 2 until the end of your next turn.

Critical Success The target is enfeebled 1 until the end of your next turn.

Failure The target is enfeebled 3 until the end of your next turn.

Critical Failure The target is destroyed.

The disrupting property comes in two varieties. The standard disrupting property deals some positive damage and can enfeeble undead. The greater version deals more positive damage, and can force undead to attempt a save—if they critically fail that save, they're destroyed outright!

Of course, other types of properties can do even more incredible things. Sometimes, these properties can require an expenditure of resonance.

Vorpal Rune 17

Evocation, Magical

Price 15,000 gp

Method of Use etched, melee weapon that deals slashing damage

Activation [[R]] Focus Activation; Trigger You roll a natural 20 and critically succeed at a Strike with the weapon targeting a creature with at least one head.


When you activate a vorpal weapon, the triggering creature must succeed at a DC 35 Fortitude save, or it is decapitated. This kills any creature except ones that don't require a head to live (such as constructs, oozes, and some aberrations and undead). For creatures with multiple heads (such as ettins or hydras), this usually kills the creature only if you sever its lasthead.

If, like the vorpal property, a weapon property has an activation, you have to spend Resonance to activate it; however, unlike worn items, you don't have to already be attuned to a weapon to activate it. So roll those 20s and snicker-snack your opponents for as long as you've got the resonance to spare.

Armor Potency and Properties

Magic armor also features potency and may have properties. Like weapons, armor can hold a maximum amount of potency and properties based on its quality and special materials, and you can add, remove, or transfer potency and properties between armor via runes. The maximum potency and number of properties for armor is the same as for weapons, though it's worth noting that rather than granting an additional property, orichalcum armor instead grants a +1 circumstance bonus to initiative rolls and automatically repairs itself over time.

Armor potency grants an item bonus to AC (including Touch Armor Class) and to your saving throws. Magic and high-quality armors are also easier to use. Armors of expert quality have their armor check penalty reduced by one, while master-quality armors have their penalty reduced by two, and legendary armor by three.

Like other worn items, you must invest armor; that is, you have to spend resonance to gain its magical effects. If your armor has an activated property, you must have invested the armor before you can use that ability. Let's look at an example of such a property.

Invisibility Rune 8+

Illusion, Magical

Method of Use etched, light armor

Activation [[A]] Command Activation


Once per day, you can whisper the command word to become invisible for 1 minute, gaining the effects of a 2nd-level invisibilityspell.

Type standard; Level 8; Price 500 gp

Type greater; Level 10; Price 1,000 gp

You can activate the armor up to 3 times per day.

Craft Requirements You must supply a casting of invisibility.

This favored property of many rangers and rogues (and maybe a sneaky alchemist or two) allows the attuned creature to gain the benefit of an invisibility spell at the cost of an action and 1 RP. The greater version enables you to activate the armor three times a day instead of just once.

But not all properties feature activations or require expending Resonance beyond that spent for initial attunement. Here's a classic example of one—fortification.

Fortification Rune 12+

Abjuration, Magical

Method of Use etched, medium or heavy armor


Each time you're hit by a critical hit while wearing fortification armor, attempt a flat check with the listed DC. If you succeed, that critical hit becomes a normal hit. This property thickens the armor, increasing its Bulk by 1.

Type standard; Level 12; Price 2,000 gp; DC 17

Type greater; Level 18; Price 24,000 gp; DC 14

Granting medium and heavy armor users the possibility to transform a critical hit to a normal hit, fortification provides an excellent constant effect for fighters, paladins, and more martial-focused clerics.

Potions

Now that you know how magic weapons and armor work, let's talk a look at something much less permanent, but often useful in a pinch—potions! While in First Edition, potions were spells of 3rd level or lower in a bottle; we wanted to go a slightly different route this time. Potions not only can have effects that reach into higher levels, but they also don't need to be tied to particular spell effects. All of that said, there are just some potions that are so iconic and necessary, you can't mess with them too much. Who doesn't need a healing potion every now and then?

Healing Potion Item 1+

Consumable, Healing, Magical, Necromancy, Potion

Method of Use held, 1 hand; Bulk L

Activation [[A]] Operate Activation


When you drink a healing potion, you regain the listed number of Hit Points.

Type minor; Level 1; Price 3 gp

The potion restores 1d8 Hit Points.

Type lesser; Level 3; Price 8 gp

The potion restores 2d8+4 Hit Points.

Type moderate; Level 5; Price 20 gp

The potion restores 3d8+8 Hit Points.

Type greater; Level 8; Price 60 gp

The potion restores 5d8+12 Hit Points.

Type major; Level 12; Price 250 gp

The potion restores 7d8+20 Hit Points.

Type true; Level 16; Price 1,200 gp

The potion restores 9d8+30 Hit Points.

The first thing you'll notice is that there are six varieties of this point, ranging from level 1 (restoring 1d8 Hit Points) to level 16 (restoring 9d8+20 Hit Points) You'll also notice that this potion (and all potions) has an activation. Which, you guessed it, means you have to spend Resonance to gain its effect.

Of course, sometimes a healing potion does its best work when you're down for the punch and can't activate it yourself. No worries. The time-honored tradition of pouring a potion down your wounded friend's gullet is still in the game. Your companion spends an Interact basic action to administer the potion to you, but you still need to spend Resonance to gain the potion's effect (thankfully, you don't have to be conscious to do so).

Of course, this new flexibility for potions allows us to keep some items that in First Edition were called elixirs (a term that in the Playtest, we now use for alchemical concoctions). Here's one of my favorites:

Dragon's Breath Potion Item 7+

Consumable, Evocation, Magical, Potion

Method of Use held, 1 hand; Bulk L

Activation [[A]] Operate Activation


This liquid contains blood from a certain breed of dragon. For 1 hour after you imbibe the acrid concoction, you can unleash a breath weapon used by that breed of dragon. The potion's level and Price, as well as the amount of damage and the DC of the saving throw, all depend on the age of the dragon whose blood you used. This item has the trait matching the damage type of the breath weapon.

You can spend another Operate Activation action with no RP cost immediately after drinking the potion to exhale dragon breath. At any point during the potion's duration, you can use the breath weapon by spending 1 RP and 2 Operate Activation actions (one to inhale the necessary air and the other to breathe out). After you use the breath weapon, you can't do so again for 1d4 rounds.

Each creature in the area of the breath weapon attempts a save against your breath weapon.

Success Half damage.

Critical Success No damage.

Failure Full damage.

Critical Failure Double damage.

Type young; Level 7; Price 45 gp; Damage 4d6; DC 21

Type adult; Level 12;

Price 250 gp; Damage 7d6; DC 28

Type wyrm; Level 17; Price 2,000 gp; Damage 10d6; DC 35

Dragon Breath Weapon (Save)

Black or copper 30-foot line of acid (Reflex)
Blue or bronze 30-foot line of electricity (Reflex)
Brass 30-foot line of fire (Reflex)
Green 15-foot cone of poison (Fortitude)
Gold or red 15-foot cone of fire (Reflex)
Silver or white 15-foot cone of cold (Reflex)

This one is interesting because you spend Resonance when you first drink the potion and spew some draconic hate on your foes, and can then continue to do so for an hour after imbibing whenever you spend actions and RP. Pick the right kind of dragon, and you'll be the life of whatever party you join.

Very closely related to potions are oils. Like potions, you activate these consumable items, but you do so by applying the oil to an object or person. While it usually takes one hand to drink or administer a potion, applying oil takes two hands. This particular oil may be of interest to shield users.

Oil of Mending Item 3

Consumable, Magical, Oil, Transmutation

Price 6 gp

Method of Use held, 2 hands; Bulk L

Activation [[A]] Operate Activation


Applying this oil to an item casts a 2nd-level mending spell that repairs the item. If the item was broken, it is no longer broken. If the item has Dents, it loses those Dents. This restoration doesn't restore lost pieces. For instance, if used on a text with missing pages, it wouldn't recreate the lost pages.

A perfect backup when you fail your Crafting check to Repair an Item, or when you need to repair that dented shield in a hurry, the oil of mending has plenty of other uses.

Well, that's it for this week! Join us next week as we take a little walk in the woods.

Stephen Radney-MacFarland
Senior Designer

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Tags: Pathfinder Playtest
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willuwontu wrote:
edduardco wrote:
Mathmuse wrote:
edduardco wrote:

Sad that Wand weren't shown

Also, why weapons get a free pass on investment?

2) Resonance is to replace the complicated magic-item-slot system with a simpler total magic items worn system. Hence, donning any magic armor or worn magic item costs one resonance, and only one resonance. To answer edduardco's question why weapons get a free pass, they didn't have a magic-item-slot, so they don't use resonance.
Staves didn't use a magic item slot, and yet they require investment to use and a resonance point per activation just like all other items previewed. So yes weapons are getting a free pass and I find very hard not to notice a certain bias in there.
Staves also provide a constant benefit that you don't need to be holding them for (just invested for). That's why they require investment.

And what are weapons doing giving a bonus to attack and extra damage dices? Isn't that a constant benefit? And as far as I know, staves needs to be holded to give any benefit


edduardco wrote:
willuwontu wrote:
edduardco wrote:
Mathmuse wrote:
edduardco wrote:

Sad that Wand weren't shown

Also, why weapons get a free pass on investment?

2) Resonance is to replace the complicated magic-item-slot system with a simpler total magic items worn system. Hence, donning any magic armor or worn magic item costs one resonance, and only one resonance. To answer edduardco's question why weapons get a free pass, they didn't have a magic-item-slot, so they don't use resonance.
Staves didn't use a magic item slot, and yet they require investment to use and a resonance point per activation just like all other items previewed. So yes weapons are getting a free pass and I find very hard not to notice a certain bias in there.
Staves also provide a constant benefit that you don't need to be holding them for (just invested for). That's why they require investment.
And what are weapons doing giving a bonus to attack and extra damage dices?

Finally scaling damage at higher levels to help deal with HP bloat. That's pretty important.

Definite improvement there.


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I really anticipate the hard encounter in the playtest : one of the Pcs is inconscious, you go to wake him up with a potion of cure and ... he has no resonance left ...

I really liked the magic properties in runes, allowing you to recycle some interesting magic items looted on BBEG. But I was not expecting an awfully complex system which basically forces any martial character to change his weapon every other level (to ger an improved quality, to change the metal eetc ...).

I was not expected that Paizo wanted to kill the "family heirloom cliché" ...

Seriously devs, a weapon is not legendary ecause you put a "legendary quality "seal on it, a weapon becomes legendary when it is used in an epic fight ...


Noir le Lotus wrote:

I really anticipate the hard encounter in the playtest : one of the Pcs is inconscious, you go to wake him up with a potion of cure and ... he has no resonance left ...

I really liked the magic properties in runes, allowing you to recycle some interesting magic items looted on BBEG. But I was not expecting an awfully complex system which basically forces any martial character to change his weapon every other level (to ger an improved quality, to change the metal eetc ...).

I was not expected that Paizo wanted to kill the "family heirloom cliché" ...

Seriously devs, a weapon is not legendary ecause you put a "legendary quality "seal on it, a weapon becomes legendary when it is used in an epic fight ...

To be fair, D&D/PF has never really supported the family heirloom weapon. The few attempts at it (with legacy weapons, ancestral daishos/relics and suchlike) didn't work very well, and didn't match up well with when other characters were getting better kit.

From a mechanical standpoint, Luke would be starting at level 1 with a +4 keen, brillant energy weapon and that just doesn't fly from a system perspective. Or from other players at the same table.


Pathfinder Card Game, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
Chest Rockwell wrote:

It also looks like Resonance are Healing Surges (one of first things I house-ruled out of 4th Ed) in disguise, especially in light of this new information about CLW wands.

I've been reading all of these comments, and sometimes it feels like we are all playing a different game *chuckles*

To me Resonance has little to do with CLW wands, only insofar as it relates to magic in general.

I think in the last 5 years the party I GM for has found one CLW wand.


edduardco wrote:
willuwontu wrote:
edduardco wrote:
Mathmuse wrote:
edduardco wrote:

Sad that Wand weren't shown

Also, why weapons get a free pass on investment?

2) Resonance is to replace the complicated magic-item-slot system with a simpler total magic items worn system. Hence, donning any magic armor or worn magic item costs one resonance, and only one resonance. To answer edduardco's question why weapons get a free pass, they didn't have a magic-item-slot, so they don't use resonance.
Staves didn't use a magic item slot, and yet they require investment to use and a resonance point per activation just like all other items previewed. So yes weapons are getting a free pass and I find very hard not to notice a certain bias in there.
Staves also provide a constant benefit that you don't need to be holding them for (just invested for). That's why they require investment.
And what are weapons doing giving a bonus to attack and extra damage dices? Isn't that a constant benefit? And as far as I know, staves needs to be holded to give any benefit

The weapons don't give those bonuses to damage and attack while they aren't being used, so no, it isn't constant.

Staves give you their item bonus regardless of whether they're being held, you just can't use them to spontaneously cast or charges to cast their spells without holding them.

Shadow Lodge

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Staves don't give their free bonuses when not being used either. And they aren't even free bonuses since you need to spend a Resonance Point....


I don’t think you should need to activate runes using resonance. If you think about Vorpal for a second, it’s completely useless. Getting a natural 20 doesn’t occur very often, and even less often in 2E (maximum 2 attack per round if you’re required to use a focus action). Using resonance just makes no sense in this case. I want to like resonance, but this isn’t a good design.

Also, the stat blocks for Disrupting and Vorpal don't even follow the same format. You guys have a lot of work to do.

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Jason S wrote:

I don’t think you should need to activate runes using resonance. If you think about Vorpal for a second, it’s completely useless. Getting a natural 20 doesn’t occur very often, and even less often in 2E (maximum 2 attack per round if you’re required to use a focus action). Using resonance just makes no sense in this case. I want to like resonance, but this isn’t a good design.

You can make three or four attacks a round in PF2. The focus activation is a reaction, not an action.


In addition staves are noted to work differently from other held items

blag wrote:
A staff is tied to you, which means you have to invest it, unlike most held items.


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Dragonborn3 wrote:
Staves don't give their free bonuses when not being used either. And they aren't even free bonuses since you need to spend a Resonance Point....

You don't have to spend an RP to gain the benefits of the item bonus it grants, you have to spend an RP to cast a spell from (using it's charges) or through it (using your spell slot).

And yeah, the item bonus isn't free, it's invested, however you don't have to be holding the staff to get the bonus, just needs to be held to use it to cast through it or from it.


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I think is only fair to expect a certain degree of consistency, either: all held items don't require investment including staves, or all items required it including weapons.


Unicore wrote:

Something that I am curious about with this version of resonance, is whether it is overly incentivizing "never get hit" as the 1 true strategy for character development. Certainly in "real life" this is a sound strategy, but that is because we don't have magical healing or the ability to come back from the dead.

Yes, in PF1, not getting hit is better than being able to soak up damage, but widely accessible healing greatly lessened how much better it was, and if the trade off was hitting harder or more AC, hitting harder was at least worth considering.

If healing becomes much more limited, and the amount healing spells heal is limited by the spell (3d8+5) vs how much healing the character needs (a percentage based healing), then I see a strong push to incentivize AC (and saves)>total Resonance>HP.

This seems like a smack in the face to some of the powers we have seen, like the druid power that triggers off of getting critically hit by your enemy, and probably a lot of Barbarian builds as well.

We'll see summoning get an even more preferred slot in standard tactics. Summoning is already a pool of HP and extra actions competing with the pool of HP brought in by pure healing. Since it acts as the less risky pre-healing it'd get a huge boost if players are restricte from topping off.

If Paizo is trying to make a game with a strong preference for pets and ranged combat, then they're heading the right direction. They could greatly reduce or restrict access to summoning, but I doubt that will feel very good either.

To be fair though, the "when struck" style abilities were never that good in Pathfinder. I'm not expecting much from them in PF2.


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edduardco wrote:
I think is only fair to expect a certain degree of consistency, either: all held items don't require investment including staves, or all items required it including weapons.

I'm not sure I agree, exceptions are not inherently bad, as long as they are minimal, and staves being the sole exception (known) so far fits minimal.


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Odd, the potions have bulk L. I would have guessed that L stands for Large, which would mean that these potions are a gallon a dose. Maybe it means Little or Lightweight. The Paizo Blog: Gearing Up that introduced bulk did not define its sizes.

Let me check on the bulk values for other previewed objects.

Trinkets and Treasures
Cloak of Elvenkind, Bulk L
Floating Shield, Bulk L
Staff of Healing, Bulk 1
Fear Gem, Bulk —
Vanishing Coin, Bulk —

Hail the Gauntlet!
The Gauntlet, Bulk L

Secrets of Alchemy
Bottled Lightning, Bulk L
Bravo's Brew, Bulk L
Sleep Potion, Bulk L
Smokestick, Bulk L

Okay, the Bulk L for potions is consistent with the Bulk L for Bravo's Brew and Sleep Potion. But it is also the same size as a cloak, a shield, a gauntlet, and a smokestick. I guess Bulk L means that the character can lift it in one hand but its weight is not trivial like coins. This article says that Fortification on armor increases its bulk by 1, but L is not a number. We do see a number on the bulk of a staff. I guess L is a lightweight bulk that is less than 1.


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willuwontu wrote:
Dragonborn3 wrote:
Staves don't give their free bonuses when not being used either. And they aren't even free bonuses since you need to spend a Resonance Point....

You don't have to spend an RP to gain the benefits of the item bonus it grants, you have to spend an RP to cast a spell from (using it's charges) or through it (using your spell slot).

And yeah, the item bonus isn't free, it's invested, however you don't have to be holding the staff to get the bonus, just needs to be held to use it to cast through it or from it.

From where do you get that you don't need to hold the staff to get the item bonus? I don't see Paizo being OK allowing a caster getting multiple bonuses from staves carried in the back pack, so I'm almost certain that staves needs to be held to get any benefit.


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dragonhunterq wrote:
edduardco wrote:
I think is only fair to expect a certain degree of consistency, either: all held items don't require investment including staves, or all items required it including weapons.
I'm not sure I agree, exceptions are not inherently bad, as long as they are minimal, and staves being the sole exception (known) so far fits minimal.

.

Because most exceptions I've seen seems to be targeted against casters.


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dragonhunterq wrote:
edduardco wrote:
I think is only fair to expect a certain degree of consistency, either: all held items don't require investment including staves, or all items required it including weapons.
I'm not sure I agree, exceptions are not inherently bad, as long as they are minimal, and staves being the sole exception (known) so far fits minimal.

Exceptions are fine so long as they aid the visualization of the resonance. But what is the visualization of resonance? Is it inner magical power, like spell slots and spell points? Is it tolerance for the external magic of enchanted items? Is it ambient magic that flows through both items and characters? Is it attunement with the magic item for greater control?

The closest I have seen to resonance in fantasy is Frodo Baggins resisting the effect of the One Ring. Harry Potter had to shop for a wand that fit him and learn how to use that wand properly in wizard school. Some other fantasy stories have the hero tested by a magic item, not able to control it until he proves his worth. Other magic items are destined, and won't function for anyone besides the chosen one.


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Mathmuse wrote:

Odd, the potions have bulk L. I would have guessed that L stands for Large, which would mean that these potions are a gallon a dose. Maybe it means Little or Lightweight. The Paizo Blog: Gearing Up that introduced bulk did not define its sizes.

Let me check on the bulk values for other previewed objects.

Trinkets and Treasures
Cloak of Elvenkind, Bulk L
Floating Shield, Bulk L
Staff of Healing, Bulk 1
Fear Gem, Bulk —
Vanishing Coin, Bulk —

Hail the Gauntlet!
The Gauntlet, Bulk L

Secrets of Alchemy
Bottled Lightning, Bulk L
Bravo's Brew, Bulk L
Sleep Potion, Bulk L
Smokestick, Bulk L

Okay, the Bulk L for potions is consistent with the Bulk L for Bravo's Brew and Sleep Potion. But it is also the same size as a cloak, a shield, a gauntlet, and a smokestick. I guess Bulk L means that the character can lift it in one hand but its weight is not trivial like coins. This article says that Fortification on armor increases its bulk by 1, but L is not a number. We do see a number on the bulk of a staff. I guess L is a lightweight bulk that is less than 1.

In starfinder L is one tenth of a bulk - not that that's definitive.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

Mathmuse wrote:

Odd, the potions have bulk L. I would have guessed that L stands for Large, which would mean that these potions are a gallon a dose. Maybe it means Little or Lightweight. The Paizo Blog: Gearing Up that introduced bulk did not define its sizes.

Let me check on the bulk values for other previewed objects.

Trinkets and Treasures
Cloak of Elvenkind, Bulk L
Floating Shield, Bulk L
Staff of Healing, Bulk 1
Fear Gem, Bulk —
Vanishing Coin, Bulk —

Hail the Gauntlet!
The Gauntlet, Bulk L

Secrets of Alchemy
Bottled Lightning, Bulk L
Bravo's Brew, Bulk L
Sleep Potion, Bulk L
Smokestick, Bulk L

Okay, the Bulk L for potions is consistent with the Bulk L for Bravo's Brew and Sleep Potion. But it is also the same size as a cloak, a shield, a gauntlet, and a smokestick. I guess Bulk L means that the character can lift it in one hand but its weight is not trivial like coins. This article says that Fortification on armor increases its bulk by 1, but L is not a number. We do see a number on the bulk of a staff. I guess L is a lightweight bulk that is less than 1.

I think they mentioned in one of the live streams that, like in Starfinder, L stands for Light bulk, and equals 0.1 Bulk (so 10 L items add up to 1 Bulk)


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PossibleCabbage wrote:
glass wrote:
On vorpal: I agree that needing a natural 20 that crits, and your reaction, and a point of resonace, and a save feels a bit too much.
It does merit mentioning that a "natural 20 which crits" just means "a natural 20 where 20 plus your attack bonus is sufficient to hit" since natural 20s/1s automatically up/downgrade you one level of success.

Not quite. A 20 is always a hit, a 20 when you would already have hit is a crit. A 20 when you would have critically failed is still a hit.

A 1 when you would have critically hit is still a miss.

Personally I think the "slide up/down a step" is a better mechanism, but it's not the one in the playtest.

There's not much difference between the results whichever method ends up in the game though.


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Well, I mean if you couldn't hit what you're trying to hit on a 19 if your attack bonus were 1 higher, what are you doing with a vorpal sword anyway?

Sovereign Court

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edduardco wrote:
I think is only fair to expect a certain degree of consistency, either: all held items don't require investment including staves, or all items required it including weapons.

No. Staffs are implements of astounding power. They can be an exception to the rule.


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Vidmaster7 wrote:
Varun Creed wrote:

What about?


  • Wands are not consumables any longer, but can cast their spell for a 1RP cost of the receiver.
  • Staffs are like wands, but have additional bonuses (such as enabling their spell(s) to be used spontaneously costing a spell slot instead of a RP).
  • No item has charges, but instead use RP to use. Staffs don't have charges that need to be recharged.
  • All characters have CHA + 1/2 lvl resonance points in their reservoir. No flat rolls for overspending, but simply: If you overspend, you gain/increase the Sick condition after 1 minute, which can only be recovered by sleeping for 8 hours.
  • A character can synchronize their spirit each day with worn items, for a maximum of their total resonance points. This does not use up a resonance point.
  • Potions cost a RP to create, nothing to use.

This counteracts the CLW wand spam as well, as any wand now costs resolve points. "Then what about high level parties buying up 100's of potions?" > I answer: what store will have 100's of potions anyhow?? It's more normal that a store has 1d4 or 1d6 of healing potions.

I like most of these suggestion the first 3 was how I thought it was going to work. as for the other ones

I can't say for sure what would be the correct amount of resonance to give out.
Hmm not sure about the synchronize but its going to depend on how many resonance too
Potions is interesting. I actually wouldn't mind potions not using any resonance. or having a different tracker.

Yeah. I honestly think that these are a far better way to go. I especially like the thought of people getting Sick after overusing Resonance. Though there might be categories of Sick in that case - each extra Resonance you use ends up costing you more and more until you are barely able to function and are not any good in a fight.

You might also include a condition where eight hours of sleep Sleep only removes three categories of Sick, so if someone overspent their Resonance by four, they'd wake up the next morning and still feel sick - this is actually something you see in fantasy stories where a spellcaster overuses their magic and feels ill the next day.

I'm not sure about using RPs for crafting potions. I have a feeling potions are going to be something players don't easily craft, and outside of healing potions quite a few of them will have uncommon or rare materials. (I actually remember an old Dragon Magazine article that included information on the rarity of spell components and on gathering these components that was well crafted. Wish I could remember what it was, but something along that lines could be used for potion components.)


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Feros wrote:

Resonance is now becoming a trifle limiting even on items that used to be automatic, like a vorpal weapon. Here is where you lost me: a rare circumstance comes up (only 5% of all rolls are nat 20s) and you have to spend resonance or you get nothing? What goes from being a dramatic and cool moment becomes sad and frustrating if the character is out of resonance or the target makes its Fort save. I get that it is cheaper to implement and thus make it appear more often. But if it works so rarely, why bother?

And why so many labels for action types? Why is this necessary? Unless it specifically states an action is a free action or a reaction, does it even matter? Won't this add a level of confusion to new players (which, given the extent of the changes, we all are to some extent) instead of clarifying?

I agree 100% with this quote. That's not even getting into the Cloak of Elvenkind, where, if you are using it for a Stealth bonus (which requires an action to flip the hood), but want to go Invisible instead (or as well), you have to unflip the hood (an action), reflip the hood again (same action as before), and then burn an action to Focus and spend a Resonance point to go Invisible. It's just highly counterintuitive design.

Granted, a simple fix for this would be to just have the item grant the Stealth bonus constantly as a part of spending Resonance, with the Invisibility option still being 2 actions, but as is stands, it's busted and punishes you for wanting a flat Stealth bonus in addition to an Invisibility benefit, which is just outright bad design.

To add onto the Vorpal property discussion, remember that 15,000 PF2 Gold is equivalent to 150,000 PF1 Gold. A +5 Weapon in PF1 costs 50,000 gold. Tacking Vorpal onto that very same weapon with the same currency makes it 200,000, a 150,000 difference in PF1 gold (or to be more exact, 15,000 gold in PF2), which means it's technically not any cheaper in PF1 than it is in PF2. (It seems like it, but since they changed the currency scaling, it really isn't.) So, no, Vorpal is priced the same as it always has been, technically speaking.

Additionally, I wish they would cut down on the verbiage for action usage, as well as properly explain what each action is, and the differences between them, if any, in an upcoming blog post (or something; heck, even a Developer comment would be appreciated at this point). And if it turns out there really is no difference between them (doubtful, but still possible), then why do we have these different action types, when a simple "Activation: 2 Actions (1 RP)" clause will do just as well, instead of flooding the word count with constant reuse of words like Activation, Action, etc. (At least more than what we have above.)

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Companion, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

It would help if people paid attention to the blogs or went back and reviewed what has already been explained.


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KingOfAnything wrote:
edduardco wrote:
I think is only fair to expect a certain degree of consistency, either: all held items don't require investment including staves, or all items required it including weapons.
No. Staffs are implements of astounding power. They can be an exception to the rule.

We will have to agree to disagree there


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edduardco wrote:
dragonhunterq wrote:
edduardco wrote:
I think is only fair to expect a certain degree of consistency, either: all held items don't require investment including staves, or all items required it including weapons.
I'm not sure I agree, exceptions are not inherently bad, as long as they are minimal, and staves being the sole exception (known) so far fits minimal.

.

Because most exceptions I've seen seems to be targeted against casters.

Because most nerfs I've seen seems to be targeted against casters.

There fixed that for you.


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KingOfAnything wrote:
It would help if people paid attention to the blogs or went back and reviewed what has already been explained.

I don't remember Focus Activations and such ever getting a proper introduction to any blog post.

By all means, if you know where they're at, perhaps a pointer in the right direction will help change peoples' perspective on certain aspects of the game, since it appears a lot of people are lost on what actions do what, and what the difference between them are. And since they're fundamental to magic item function, it seems silly that so many people glossed over those rules and somehow didn't realize they weren't there.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Okay. Concerning wands and staves...

I saw one person suggest that Staffs recharge daily and are a one-person item (ie, once it's bonded to a person for the day it remains bonded even if that person dies). I think having Staffs hold three charges that they can use for any of their abilities is perfectly reasonable. I could even see using one Resonance to bond the item for the day, but I don't see why you have to burn through Resonance to use Staff abilities... unless you were to use the Resonance to boost the spell power (ie, to Empower the spell).

In short, you can use a Charge to cast the spell at the minimum level for that spell. You can also use one Resonance to Empower the spell so when you use that Charge, it is cast at the highest level for the user which would enhance how much healing a Heal Staff could do, for instance. Staffs could also be limited to three levels of Empowerment for each tier of Staff - so a First Tier Staff would cast level 1 spells and could be Empowered to cast up to level 3 spells. A Second Tier Staff would cast level 4 spells and be able to Empower spells up to level 6. And a Tier 3 Staff would handle levels 7-9.

Wands could very likely work similar to Staffs. Limit them to one spell, and don't allow them to Empower spells. Otherwise they can cast three spells a day using internal charges which recharge each day when freshly Empowered. Thus Wands are simpler to use and are limited to their power and effect.

One last thing: You could require more potent Staves and Wands to use more Resonance to be bonded for the day. A Tier 2 Staff would use two Resonance for the initial bonding (but only one Resonance to Empower a spell), and a Tier 3 Staff would use three Resonance for that initial bonding (and again one Resonance for Empowering spells). For Wands, have them require Resonance to bond based on half the spell level, rounded up. Thus a Fireball Wand would use two Resonance to cast a 5d6 Fireball three times a day.


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Tholomyes wrote:
On the topic of Resonance Consumables, I'm just going to say, I don't think Resonance for consumables is wrong, but I think it would be a system that benefited from "This class of consumables doesn't cost resonance, but is significantly more expensive, relative to WBL (and for certain things maybe even has a secondary downside, to prevent spam at higher levels)" and "This class of items is cheap for WBL, but costs resonance". The resonance consumables will be the best option for when you're fairly sure you're not going to run out, but you'll save the second one in a pinch.

Considering that we don't have full details on alchemical elixirs yet, it is entirely possible that this could be one of the big distinctions between elixirs and potions.

Elleth wrote:
3) It sort of feels like the rules for investing are "do you need to be wearing it" and for other payments are "are you activating it". I.e. if it does its own thing without people messing with it then it probably doesn't need investment or activation. We already know that the frost sword thing is gonna be always chilly, which fits well with the idea that weapons don't need investing. Presumably other things like fire swords are always pretty hot or whatever. Meanwhile potions only have their effects in people, staffs and wands siphon power from people, and enhanced armour ups saving throws which suggests it's outright synergising with people. If this sort of logic is actually being followed then bag of holding works fine without investment (though I actually like the idea of a Bag of Secrets which does require investment).

Agree that I find the conditions for investment fairly simple and easy to follow. Also, while a bag of holding is likely to function without investment, investment does seem like a good way to functionally create PF1's Bag of Concealment (a personal favorite item of mine).

---

Item Slots: After seeing some of the discussion regarding how resonance is meant to be replacing a strict list of slotted items, I want to throw my voice in as approving of the system. It's not that I dislike having item slots, I always found them engaging in PF1 and love their inclusion in most video games, but I can see the arguments for why this is better. PF1 always had weird restrictions on what couldn't be worn together due to slots (contacts & glasses are both eye slots, masks and hats are both head slots, can only wear one neck slot unless they're talismans which can have three, etc.) Instead of constantly creating more slots to fully cover every possible combination of wearable items - it seems more fluid to create an open system which uses common sense + GM intervention as a moderating factor on items slots and lets the devs focus more on balancing items based on Resonance & Gold rather than Gold & Competing Slots.

Wands: Also want to throw my voice into the pile saying that I hope wands get a significant change (or even removed) in PF2. Spells-in-a-can do not make for a terribly engaging item, and we already have potions and scrolls to fill the thematic niche of consumable spell item. Is the character potentially able to cast the spell on their own? Buy a scroll. Otherwise, chug a potion/elixir.

That said, I'm not fully on board with some of the comments suggesting that wands should just spend 1RP everytime they want to cast the contained spell. This seems like it might mess with the balance of resonance too much + would give casters numerous extra/unintended castings per day.

CLW Spamming/Healing: Regarding this, I honestly can't see why people keep trying to defend CLW wands as the one true way of healing that must not be touched. Regardless of their influence on players, CLW wands were poorly designed in that they invalidated the majority of other healing items in the game. Even worse, CLW wands were one of the first healing items lower level players encountered, making all others even more redundant. Either something needed to change in the new edition, or all other healing items should've been removed to conserve word count.

As for easy access to healing, remember that a new edition is changing more than just CLW wands and Potions. We still don't know exactly how or if elixirs will interact with resonance (& a healing elixir seems too classic for an alchemist to not be present). We also know that skill-based healing will be improved and that rituals will be a thing that even non-casters have access to. So relax, just because healing wands are getting nerfed doesn't instantly mean the end of healing and the return of 15-min adventuring days.

Heck, paizo could still surprise us with a low-level healing ritual that directly converts time into hp (every X time periods heals X hp for all participants in the ritual area, more complex versions of the ritual heal faster). This could easily fill any gap created from losing CLW wands by letting groups spend a resource (time) to heal up when not in danger and not racing against the clock.

Actions/Activation: After seeing all the confusion and complaints regarding the presentation of activations with comparison to design goals, I think that it would be helpful to separate actions into types and subtypes.

Types of Actions are how long an action takes to perform and are broken into three categories; Action, Reaction, and Free. Things that take up multiple actions do just that, being presented as requiring "2 Actions" or "3 Actions". This is a great simplification over PF1 which had Move, Standard, Swift, Full-Round, 1-Round, Immediate, AoO, etc.

Subtypes of Actions are what is needed to actually perform the action and function like spell components in PF1. They would include many of the action types we've seen in previous blogs, such as Command, Focus, Interact, Operate, Somatic, Verbal, etc.

Resonance cost could potentially be listed as either a type or subtype as long as the presentation was consistent. Listing it as a separate type would have the benefit of grouping all the costs of the action together when a player is deciding what to do with their turn. Alternatively, listing it as a subtype would reduce any potential confusion about resonance costing part of a turn like other action types do, but could potentially increase confusion as players skip over the (often irrelevant) subtype section and don't properly pay the resonance cost.

As for presentation, do what was common in PF1 and have subtypes listed in parenthesis immediately after type. Considering that types of actions seem to be getting symbols in PF2, if resonance cost is displayed as type, then it should get a symbol which is visually distinct from the other action types (such as resonance being diamond-shaped while action/reaction/free are all circular-shaped).

For example, casting a spell would be:
Activation [[A]][[A]] (somatic, verbal)
or
Activation [[2A]] (somatic, verbal)
Depending on if the activation symbol varied for using multiple actions or was just repeated to show multiple actions (think MtG mana costs).

For an item using resonance, such as the Vorpal enchantment above, it would be:

Activation [[1RP]], [[F]] (Focus); Trigger You roll a natural 20 and...
if resonance is displayed as a type of action, OR

Activation [[F]] (Focus, 1 Resonance); Trigger You roll a natural 20 and...
if resonance is displayed as an action subtype.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
KingOfAnything wrote:
It would help if people paid attention to the blogs or went back and reviewed what has already been explained.

I don't remember Focus Activations and such ever getting a proper introduction to any blog post.

By all means, if you know where they're at, perhaps a pointer in the right direction will help change peoples' perspective on certain aspects of the game, since it appears a lot of people are lost on what actions do what, and what the difference between them are. And since they're fundamental to magic item function, it seems silly that so many people glossed over those rules and somehow didn't realize they weren't there.

It wasn't in the blog post but it was in the blog thread. Which is understandbly easy to miss.

"Just to give you guys the PF1 equivalencies for these from activation in the PF1 CRB (some have probably already guessed):

Operate = Pure Use Activated (if you remember in the PF1 CRB, use activated's description breaks up and repeats command word and mentally willing the activation to happen, but in the first line "This type of item simply has to be used in order to activate it. A character has to drink a potion, swing a sword, interpose a shield to deflect a blow in combat, look through a lens, sprinkle dust, wear a ring, or don a hat. Use activation is generally straightforward and self-explanatory.")

Command = Command Word

Focus = Mentally willing the activation to happen (found inside of use activated in the PF1 CRB)"

This combined with the Resonance blog stating that "Activating or investing an item costs 1 Resonance Point (RP)." we have a pretty good idea of what those actions entail and that if the action is ever part of the "Activation" entry it costs a Resonance to do so.


edduardco wrote:
willuwontu wrote:
Dragonborn3 wrote:
Staves don't give their free bonuses when not being used either. And they aren't even free bonuses since you need to spend a Resonance Point....

You don't have to spend an RP to gain the benefits of the item bonus it grants, you have to spend an RP to cast a spell from (using it's charges) or through it (using your spell slot).

And yeah, the item bonus isn't free, it's invested, however you don't have to be holding the staff to get the bonus, just needs to be held to use it to cast through it or from it.

From where do you get that you don't need to hold the staff to get the item bonus? I don't see Paizo being OK allowing a caster getting multiple bonuses from staves carried in the back pack, so I'm almost certain that staves needs to be held to get any benefit.

From the blog

blag wrote:


Invested
A staff of healing adds an item bonus to the Hit Points you restore any time you cast the heal spell using your own spell slots, using charges from the staff, or from channel energy.

Method of Use held, 1 hand

Activation Cast a Spell (1 RP)

The only way to use it's activation effects is to be holding it.

When you invest in it you get the other benefits.


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willuwontu wrote:
edduardco wrote:
willuwontu wrote:
Dragonborn3 wrote:
Staves don't give their free bonuses when not being used either. And they aren't even free bonuses since you need to spend a Resonance Point....

You don't have to spend an RP to gain the benefits of the item bonus it grants, you have to spend an RP to cast a spell from (using it's charges) or through it (using your spell slot).

And yeah, the item bonus isn't free, it's invested, however you don't have to be holding the staff to get the bonus, just needs to be held to use it to cast through it or from it.

From where do you get that you don't need to hold the staff to get the item bonus? I don't see Paizo being OK allowing a caster getting multiple bonuses from staves carried in the back pack, so I'm almost certain that staves needs to be held to get any benefit.

From the blog

blag wrote:


Invested
A staff of healing adds an item bonus to the Hit Points you restore any time you cast the heal spell using your own spell slots, using charges from the staff, or from channel energy.

Method of Use held, 1 hand

Activation Cast a Spell (1 RP)

The only way to use it's activation effects is to be holding it.

When you invest in it you get the other benefits.

Looks like a FAQ candidate, the way I read it you need to invest and held the staff in order to get the constant benefits.


Malk_Content wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
KingOfAnything wrote:
It would help if people paid attention to the blogs or went back and reviewed what has already been explained.

I don't remember Focus Activations and such ever getting a proper introduction to any blog post.

By all means, if you know where they're at, perhaps a pointer in the right direction will help change peoples' perspective on certain aspects of the game, since it appears a lot of people are lost on what actions do what, and what the difference between them are. And since they're fundamental to magic item function, it seems silly that so many people glossed over those rules and somehow didn't realize they weren't there.

It wasn't in the blog post but it was in the blog thread. Which is understandbly easy to miss.

"Just to give you guys the PF1 equivalencies for these from activation in the PF1 CRB (some have probably already guessed):

Operate = Pure Use Activated (if you remember in the PF1 CRB, use activated's description breaks up and repeats command word and mentally willing the activation to happen, but in the first line "This type of item simply has to be used in order to activate it. A character has to drink a potion, swing a sword, interpose a shield to deflect a blow in combat, look through a lens, sprinkle dust, wear a ring, or don a hat. Use activation is generally straightforward and self-explanatory.")

Command = Command Word

Focus = Mentally willing the activation to happen (found inside of use activated in the PF1 CRB)"

This combined with the Resonance blog stating that "Activating or investing an item costs 1 Resonance Point (RP)." we have a pretty good idea of what those actions entail and that if the action is ever part of the "Activation" entry it costs a Resonance to do so.

Just makes items like the Cloak of Elvenkind even more broken than before, since now I have to spend a Resonance to get the Ghost Sound cantrip (which we don't even know what it does), and then another one along with an action to flip the hood up for an unending +3 Stealth Bonus, and then we have to waste an action, as well as Resonance, to switch back and forth between the two benefits of Stealth and Invisibility because the two are technically mutually exclusive and only function with one flipping of the hood at any given time.

This also doesn't really explain the point of these different actions compared to just saying "So-and-so ability requires 2 actions to use". They could be self-explanatory, but considering this is Pathfinder, it wouldn't surprise me if I can still use Operate actions while pinned (or similarly restrained), or if I can use Command actions while silenced, or Focus actions while raging (which in PF1 wouldn't be possible), or some other strange nonsense that doesn't add up.

So, okay, we got a bit of insight as to what these actions are. Unfortunately, they still don't help out too much.


Laird IceCubez wrote:
I hope they have a Resonance potion that restores 1 RP.

They do. It's called water.

(Yes, somebody else already told this joke, but I'd thought of it too!)

Anyway, I actually would like an item like that. Then when your PC runs out of Resonance, you can preroll to gain one. In drinking the potion, you roll your overspend chance. If you fail you lose the potion, but if you succeed you gain the certainty of having 1 Resonance in the bank.
Then you know you can safely drink that more valuable potion...

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

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Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
KingOfAnything wrote:
It would help if people paid attention to the blogs or went back and reviewed what has already been explained.

I don't remember Focus Activations and such ever getting a proper introduction to any blog post.

By all means, if you know where they're at, perhaps a pointer in the right direction will help change peoples' perspective on certain aspects of the game, since it appears a lot of people are lost on what actions do what, and what the difference between them are. And since they're fundamental to magic item function, it seems silly that so many people glossed over those rules and somehow didn't realize they weren't there.

LINK


edduardco wrote:
dragonhunterq wrote:
edduardco wrote:
I think is only fair to expect a certain degree of consistency, either: all held items don't require investment including staves, or all items required it including weapons.
I'm not sure I agree, exceptions are not inherently bad, as long as they are minimal, and staves being the sole exception (known) so far fits minimal.

.

Because most exceptions I've seen seems to be targeted against casters.

What are the other exceptions, that 'most exceptions' would apply?

It seems more that there aren't any exceptions, and weapons and spell staves are treated as completely different categories, much the same way weapons and metamagic rods are currently treated as different categories.

or that Orcinhaler weapons and Orcinhaler armor have different properties.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

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edduardco wrote:
willuwontu wrote:
edduardco wrote:
willuwontu wrote:
Dragonborn3 wrote:
Staves don't give their free bonuses when not being used either. And they aren't even free bonuses since you need to spend a Resonance Point....

You don't have to spend an RP to gain the benefits of the item bonus it grants, you have to spend an RP to cast a spell from (using it's charges) or through it (using your spell slot).

And yeah, the item bonus isn't free, it's invested, however you don't have to be holding the staff to get the bonus, just needs to be held to use it to cast through it or from it.

From where do you get that you don't need to hold the staff to get the item bonus? I don't see Paizo being OK allowing a caster getting multiple bonuses from staves carried in the back pack, so I'm almost certain that staves needs to be held to get any benefit.

From the blog

blag wrote:


Invested
A staff of healing adds an item bonus to the Hit Points you restore any time you cast the heal spell using your own spell slots, using charges from the staff, or from channel energy.

Method of Use held, 1 hand

Activation Cast a Spell (1 RP)

The only way to use it's activation effects is to be holding it.

When you invest in it you get the other benefits.

Looks like a FAQ candidate, the way I read it you need to invest and held the staff in order to get the constant benefits.

There's this bit from the explainer after the staff text, which is what I think is giving people the impression that you need to hold the staff to get the constant benefits:

blog wrote:
I've included only the level 3 minor staff of healing here. There are also versions at levels 7, 11, and 15, and they add higher-level heal spells, plus restoration, remove disease, restore senses, and more! A staff is tied to you, which means you have to invest it, unlike most held items. This investiture has two extra benefits. First off, it links the staff to you, preventing anyone else from investing the staff for 24 hours. More importantly, it restores charges to the staff equal to the highest level of spell you can cast. You don't have to expend any spells to do this; it's all part of using your Resonance Points. You'll notice this also means that if you find one of these as a 1st-level character, it will take you longer to recharge it than if you're a higher-level spellcaster. You also get the item bonus to healing as long as you hold the invested staff.

Lantern Lodge

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Corrik wrote:

P1: Then I'll drink my Dragon's Breath Potion and show him what real morning's breath smells like!

P2: Don't be stupid, you only have 2 RP left. Complete waste of the potion and you'll be SOL if you get knocked out.

P1: Oh yeah, never mind I'll just full attack then.

This is a good example of why Resonance(RP) just seems odd. Its purely mechanical and don't make sense from a roleplay point of view.

How is Resonance even explained in-world? That's something that really needs to be thought out first.


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Secane wrote:
How is Resonance even explained in-world? That's something that really needs to be thought out first.

It is a combination of Occultist resonance, and the largely undefined "magical-aura" that PF1 Alchemists use to empower their extracts (and other magical products of their Alchemy).

I could see it being a measure of your spiritual capacity (like Ki), especially because I bet martials will be able to spend it to perform supernatural deeds. I might call it mana in my campaigns (assuming I use it at all)


Typo in the last line of the Vorpal description.

'lasthead' as one word.

I *guarantee* someone will use that to give a GM a headache :)


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I'm not fond of weapon quality and weapon potency doing the same thing to attack rolls. What's the point of having two different systems doing the same thing? Is it just so you can say "I have a +1 weapon"? Seems worthless to me. Keep the item quality to the weapon crafted features and then use potency just to roll extra dice. Of course, I think they shouldn't be called +1 or +2 and call them "lesser minor, minor, lesser major, and major" or something like that so it doesn't confuse the players/gm. The more things you add to try to hit that niche use case makes overlapping too likely and be confusing.

Shadow Lodge

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Cantriped wrote:
Secane wrote:
How is Resonance even explained in-world? That's something that really needs to be thought out first.
It is a combination of Occultist resonance, and the largely undefined "magical-aura" that PF1 Alchemists use to empower their extracts (and other magical products of their Alchemy).

Except it's not. Neither of those classes are 'put magic into a magic item to use its magic' at all. In fact both use their own magic on completely mundane objects. Not to use the mundane items ability, but to channel their own abilities through the item.

SqueezeBox wrote:
Of course, I think they shouldn't be called +1 or +2 and call them "lesser minor, minor, lesser major, and major" or something like that so it doesn't confuse the players/gm. The more things you add to try to hit that niche use case makes overlapping too likely and be confusing.

Do we really need two systems for the same thing? We definitely don't need MORE useless terms added to the game...


I never said it was a good in-world explanation, but that is the one we got. Of course it isn't a perfect analogy, PF1 & PF2 magic item rules are basically apples and oranges. They've extended the concept of occult implements to all magical items, making them function like class features, not equipment.


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So, regardless of the eventual results, I think my very first BBEG is going to be a lich that steals Resonance.

Strange monsters that seem to steal the magic right out of their targets. Magic items inexplicably failing in mass. Bards and wandering minstrels disappearing from nearby inns.

What is the greatest limiter to a lich's power? It is no longer levels, or research time, or do-gooders, or even the difficulty of finding an affordable dungeon in today's underground economy.

Resonance *is* power. By its very definition, it is the power that triggers almost all forms of magical device. Control resonance, and you control your enemies. Gather resonance to yourself, and you can do anything (that you happen to have the actions and magic items to do).

Thus begins the great plot of the Lich Overlord of Shez B'hzad, Most Blinged of Wizards, Wearer of the Thirty Rings and Quaffer of All Potions.


Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:

There's this bit from the explainer after the staff text, which is what I think is giving people the impression that you need to hold the staff to get the constant benefits:

blog wrote:
I've included only the level 3 minor staff of healing here. There are also versions at levels 7, 11, and 15, and they add higher-level heal spells, plus restoration, remove disease, restore senses, and more! A staff is tied to you, which means you have to invest it, unlike most held items. This investiture has two extra benefits. First off, it links the staff to you, preventing anyone else from investing the staff for 24 hours. More importantly, it restores charges to the staff equal to the highest level of spell you can cast. You don't have to expend any spells to do this; it's all part of using your Resonance Points. You'll notice this also means that if you find one of these as a 1st-level character, it will take you longer to recharge it than if you're a higher-level spellcaster. You also get the item bonus to healing as long as you hold the invested staff.

Ah, I missed that bit.

Well that's disappointing, staves shouldn't need to be invested in then.


I know someone else brought it up in another thread (the Trinkets one, I believe), but I'm really curious to know how Cursed items are going to work with the Resonance concept. Are they going to force people to expand RP (I still don't like that abbreviation)? That would be an interesting way of portraying their curse, in addition to whatever negative effects otherwise attend them.


IMHO Staves shouldn't necessarily need to be Invested, but you won't gain their Investment effects if you don't, and you won't recharge the Charges (and the casting-Staff-spells with own slots should be Investment effect that doesn't spend RP each time you do so). So longer term you will need to Invest it, but if you don't one day, you can still pick it up and spend RP to expend one of the Charges.


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Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:
I think they mentioned in one of the live streams that, like in Starfinder, L stands for Light bulk, and equals 0.1 Bulk (so 10 L items add up to 1 Bulk)

Isn't it more intuitive, then, to make L = .1 instead? So that way you are just adding numbers to get your numeric Bulk rating, instead of adding numbers and letters together.

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