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Iron_Matt17 wrote:

Invictus Fatum wrote:

Iron_Matt17 wrote:

I’m keen on any info on Mythic. What are all the Mythic paths and what do they give in general?

Full list is:

Apocalypse Rider
Archfiend
Ascended Celestial
Beast Lord
Broken Chain
Eternal Legend
Godling
Prophesied Monarch
Wildspell

Mechanically they are Lvl 12 Dedication feats with their own feat tree after that. They each come with lots of flavor and the feats look really good as well.

The dedication feat itself seems to give a wide range based on which you choose, but at a glance, they seem to be on the higher scale of dedication feat benefits.

Thanks!

Could you tell me more about the goodies that the Ascended Celestial gains? And what do PCs gain from level 1-11?

Mythic Points work similar to Hero Points in that they are per session and are max of 3. You need them for some of the big mytic stuff like spells, but not everything. An odd thing I saw was that if you have Mythic Points, you don't get Hero Points.

You start with 3 mythic points each session, and have to do specific things to gain more in a session (slay a mythic opponent, follow your calling, etc.).

At level 1 you choose a calling and get an extra mythic feet at 2nd and then every even level. This is outside of your regular class feats and work kinda like free archetype, but for mythic feats only. That is also where you take the 12th level dedication for your destiny

Could you list the Callings please?

Iron_Matt17 wrote:

I’m keen on any info on Mythic. What are all the Mythic paths and what do they give in general?

Full list is:

Apocalypse Rider
Archfiend
Ascended Celestial
Beast Lord
Broken Chain
Eternal Legend
Godling
Prophesied Monarch
Wildspell

Mechanically they are Lvl 12 Dedication feats with their own feat tree after that. They each come with lots of flavor and the feats look really good as well.

The dedication feat itself seems to give a wide range based on which you choose, but at a glance, they seem to be on the higher scale of dedication feat benefits.

Thanks!

I’m keen on any info on Mythic. What are all the Mythic paths and what do they give in general?

There are tables in the back of the book as the GM Core. It looks to me like most of it is consumables with a few Magic items sprinkled in. Not sure the exact number…

I'm not a fan of moral relativism, neither in ttrpgs nor in real life. Seeing the holy/unholy paradigm in the remaster brought a smile to my face bc it seems like a stronger more definitive judgement call than what came before. Some forces want to be selfish and harm others, other forces want to be selfless and aid others. These qualities define those that either likened to literal devil's and demons or likened to literal angels. That was a STRONG statement and I'm all here for it.

This is exactly how I feel about Pathfinder and real life, but honestly didn’t want to wade into these discussions on a thread like this. Thanks for articulating it charitably WWHsmackdown.

Back to the blog! I’m looking forward to seeing the new feats for level 2, since Oath feats are pulled from the book. Level 2 needed some love. Also, my guess is that “Defensive Advance” is the Champion equivalent of the Lastwall Knight’s Level 12 “Guarded Advance”. But if it’s lower level, I’m fine with that!

Interesting direction. I’m looking forward to seeing the final product. But I have two general questions: (one major, one minor)
1. The minor. Will you be dropping the word Paladin from the document?
2. The major. There’s no mention of whether Champion’s Reactions are tied to Causes. What’s happened to the Reactions? Are only Champions of Justice able to Retributive Strike? (for example…) Or are the Reactions decoupled from the Causes?

Will there be a Fiend Hunter Archetype option? There seems to be a lot of specific Undead Slayer options, (Ghosteater, Knights of Lastwall, Undead Slayer, etc…) but I’m having trouble finding a specifically fiend slayer themed Archetype… (without Multiclassing mind you)

Iron_Matt17 wrote:

Ezekieru wrote:

Ed Reppert wrote:

Are there still just the six subclasses? Is the "Champions of..." naming now standard, instead of Paladin, Redeemer, etcetera? I never liked "Antipaladin" anyway.

It's still Causes, so it'd be a "Cause of Justice" Champion. Luis spoke before in a different interview, saying that Paladins are now the "Cause of Justice". Also seems to encompass Antipaladin, if CoJ Champions aren't locked into either Sanctification.

Could you give a source for that Luis quote? I’m actually pretty upset that they’d take the Paladin in this direction…

HERE, at around 31 minutes. Luis talks about how the Paladin is no longer called the Paladin, they are now the "Cause of Justice".

Thanks

Ed Reppert wrote:

Are there still just the six subclasses? Is the "Champions of..." naming now standard, instead of Paladin, Redeemer, etcetera? I never liked "Antipaladin" anyway.

It's still Causes, so it'd be a "Cause of Justice" Champion. Luis spoke before in a different interview, saying that Paladins are now the "Cause of Justice". Also seems to encompass Antipaladin, if CoJ Champions aren't locked into either Sanctification.

Could you give a source for that Luis quote? I’m actually pretty upset that they’d take the Paladin in this direction…

More Paizocon stuff: Mythic callings are levels 1-10 and give you mythic abilities, including making you very hard to kill. Mythic destinies are level 11-20, and are all ways to make you immortal. The archfiend mythic destiny is mentioned and we have art for it. There is mythic equipment, and mythic spells you cast with mythic powers+ normal spell slots. There are templates to turn any monster mythic, as well as multiple specific monster statblocks.

Intriguing… Where did you hear this info?

Iron_Matt17 wrote:

I’d compare it to the Champion (again). Champion’s don’t get Expert Reflexes until level 9(!), and that’s all they get. While the Guardian, gets Expert Reflexes at lvl 5 then Guardian Mastery at level 19. They also get access to Shielded Reflex & Mighty Bulwark baked into the class… I find that they have lots of options, especially compared to the Champion. (In fact for my Champion, I always get Canny Acumen for my Reflex Saves at Level 3 due to the obvious weak point)

This is true, but Champions also have better Will progression, so overall I think it's a sidegrade. From there we'd have to get into the nitty gritty of class feature comparison, which is far less cut-and-dry though my bias is to give it to the champion as the Champion's Reactions are all great.

That said, I didn't want to compare it to Champion at the moment because Player Core 2 is still coming, and there's always a nonzero chance that some numbers will move in that.

Oh, I very much prefer Champion over the Guardian, and don’t mind sinking a General Feat to give him Expert 6 levels prior to the base chassis and then Master at level 17. And fair enough, we’ll wait and see if they change anything for the Champion.

I’d compare it to the Champion (again). Champion’s don’t get Expert Reflexes until level 9(!), and that’s all they get. While the Guardian, gets Expert Reflexes at lvl 5 then Guardian Mastery at level 19. They also get access to Shielded Reflex & Mighty Bulwark baked into the class… I find that they have lots of options, especially compared to the Champion. (In fact for my Champion, I always get Canny Acumen for my Reflex Saves at Level 3 due to the obvious weak point)

I’m actually leaning into this more as I continue to Playtest my Guardian… I’ve now built him to be more of a slow, somewhat stationary vortex of Reach/Hampered Sweeps/Tripping/Disarm with a Shield and Whip. Paired with a Stand your ground and tank Champion. I’m looking forward to seeing how fun it’ll be.

Basic premise: You're creating a new character for PFS, specifically as part of a plan to share that experience with someone else. (Significant other? Younger sibling? Kid?) Regardless, that person is willing to let you have a lot of influence over their build, and you can make your own build, and you're specifically looking for a situation where the two of you have lots of fun synergy and support that you can provide one another, while still getting along with the rest of the party. So... what kind of interesting builds are there out there to work with?

It was commented that we should have more CharOp types talking about party op, and this is explicitly an attempt to get the ball rolling on that one a bit.

To get thigns started, I introduce the moderately unintuitive classic - two paladins. With two of you, you can provide a pretty solid steel wall to keep the enemy from getting past you, and if you stay close enough to one another, it doesn't matter who's getting swung at - the other one can punish. Having the lay on hands able to work both ways gives a nice bit of sustain, too.

I very much agree with this, 2 Paladins is a lot of fun. Especially the combo of a Weapon Ally & Shield Ally. But honestly, Paladin synergizes well with most Martials. I really like Giant Barb/Paladin combo for high damage and high defence. Gang Up Thief Rogue/Paladin combo is great as well. Then of course there’s the Fighter/Paladin combo…

Champions already have the lvl 12 Divine Wall, which I don’t find that flavourful. I’d like to see something more ‘sticky’.

Iron_Matt17 wrote:

... Once the Guardian had it with his Hampering Sweeps, the Dragon went “oh crap” and focused fired on the Guardian. Which was exactly what the Guardian wanted, (provoking Retributive Strikes from the Champion, and Reactive Strikes when it cast an spell) and the rest of the team ganged up on the Dragon and whittled down its health....

Honest question, why did the dragon attack the Guardian? Why not fighter or champion first? Was the threat from the guardian greater than the champion or the fighter?

If I remember, the Dragon flew down and attacked the Cleric with his juicy bite attack. The other three had not been much of a threat up til then. (They were Hypnotized for a few rounds) By then they had shaken it off, and went after the Dragon. The Dragon expected to buffet their attacks with its Reaction and fly off and attack using its Reach/Spell advantage. Once he realized he was pinned to the ground, he went crazy and tried to free himself by attacking the one pinning him. At least that’s how I imagined it went…

Speaking as both a GM and a player, I kinda want to see it stay as is. (tho unlikely I know) It’s a powerful ability that gives the Guardian shine and plays up the whole “Hit Me” vibe. Because if the enemy is prevented from moving away from a certain character, you know they’ll be focus firing on them. Plus it forces me as a GM to think outside the box as to how to deal with that. Shove, Reposition, burn a teleport, etc. The only problems I find is that it gums up combat on one small location, and it’s kind of a no brainer combat tactic.
But let me tell you, it was a game changer for an Extreme Lvl 5 encounter with a team of Kyra, Valeros, a Champion, and a Guardian vs a Lvl 9 Blue Dragon. I made the Dragon a spellcaster to play against such a heavy martial team. (Most were Sword & Board) It was toying with the group and slowly tearing them apart with its spells until it finally landed to attack with its high attack and damage output. Once the Guardian had it with his Hampering Sweeps, the Dragon went “oh crap” and focused fired on the Guardian. Which was exactly what the Guardian wanted, (provoking Retributive Strikes from the Champion, and Reactive Strikes when it cast an spell) and the rest of the team ganged up on the Dragon and whittled down its health. It was a cool moment for me. (Tho looking back, I probably should have had the Dragon try to shove the Guardian away or something like that to escape. Oh, well)
Is it overpowered? Perhaps. But I’m sure I couldn’t make a cool moment like that with just Taunt and Intercept Strike. But I’m going to continue playtesting the class…

I’m in full favour of this. Locking enemies down so that they must deal with the Guardian is a fun playstyle for me. I’d rather have that than Taunt as the class feature. Plus no easy MC dipping…

I mixed the two up early in my reading through the Playtest, and commented on that specifically in my survey.

Well, at level 10 you start protecting at 15ft. and it becomes much easier (even if high level fights tend to spread on bigger maps).

Is that how “Get Behind Me!” really works? I interpret that feat as the Guardian is adjacent to the ally, Intercept Strike is then triggered and the Guardian can move that ally up to 10ft away from the enemy but still within reach of the Guardian. It doesn’t seem to me to give the Guardian a 15 ft range like the Champion… Now Mobile Protection does, but that’s only for one ally at the cost of two feats.

Champion first and foremost, Monk, Barbarian, any info on the Mythic rules plz!

Lightning Raven wrote:

WWHsmackdown wrote:

Captain Morgan wrote:

Perpdepog wrote:

I'm thinking we'll be seeing more spirit damage like we see in the champion errata.

Man, I really hope not. The champion errata spirit damage doesn't work like 90% of spirit damage in the remaster, and is worse than the old alignment damage was too. If Paizo actually prints that I'll be sorely disappointed.

Are you saying remaster spirit damage is a bad system or errata champion spirit damage in particular is bad?

Unlike normal Spirit damage, which was a buff for these kinds of spells because they work with any living (and adjacent) creature, the Champion's features that grant spirit damage only work against the same creature types it did as before and the Sanctified creatures, that are a bit different than before. If they had the LE/NE/CE Tag, you would gain the extra benefits against, now they need to be sanctified, which isn't a given anymore (although it's still expected against extraplanar beings).

So, I know it's been a bit, but I was looking at champion errata today, and I can't find where it says this, at least for the champion's reactions. They seem to just do spirit damage. It says the damage is a holy/unholy effect, but I don't think that should matter; it's still damaging your enemy, unless I've misunderstood something somewhere?

I do see where some feats got way more narrow, and that sucks. Hopefully that will get changed.

The discussion was more focused on the feats rather than the features. When it came to the Champion’s Reaction and its related abilities, the Remaster was a big buff. But to certain feats… not so much.

Iron_Matt17 wrote:

I didn’t see anything on the PaizoCon schedule to talk about Player Core 2, so I’m guessing June as well. I’m just excited for this book…

On the schedule there is a posting on Saturday for Pathfinder Project Remaster.

Right. That’d most likely be the place. I was looking for something more bold to jump out at me. My bad.

Soulsight allows the same defence that sight does: it says that it doesn't penetrate solid objects, meaning that you can hide behind cover. Presumably the equivalent of concealment would be trying to see one soul in a crowd of them, or maybe a large haunt would partially obscure creatures within its area.

Ok, that’s a great point. But I’m more thinking about the Shape Changed Demon or Deceptive Undead standing right in front of you. Like I’ve come across a few times in adventures or modules where you interact with an NPC who is secretly a Succubus. (for instance) Does the Champion automatically “sense” that something is ‘off’ about the NPC? I would be ok with that, because they invested into the niche feat. But others might not…

"Like most senses, doesn't penetrate through solid objects"

WELL, if that didn't just answer a months-old thread about whether lifesense could penetrate walls. Would be great if this line appeared in the detection rules but it doesn't seem to? Funny, because of the traditional senses, only sight is traditionally blocked by solid objects--hearing is muffled by barriers, but any player who has listened at a door knows it can still penetrate.

In any case, how you describe Sense Evil is more or less how it actually works now but flipped to holy/unholy. Champions currently detect evil as a vague sense i.e. 'smell'. Soulsight is more akin to hearing than it is to smell--excepting of course comparing it to the Scent ability of, say, a wolf.

That nitpick aside, I could easily see Sense Evil becoming an imprecise sense with a radius. Given that there exists an 8th level feat in the game which arguably has greater utility (detects virtually all non-mindless creatures and haunts, not just holy/unholy) it seems highly plausible.

I had the old text in my mind, that’s why I wrote it that way. It didn’t occur to me that hearing could be an imprecise sense as well. (Duh)

I didn’t see anything on the PaizoCon schedule to talk about Player Core 2, so I’m guessing June as well. I’m just excited for this book…

Michael Sayre wrote:

JoelF847 wrote:

I don't have a horse in this race, but I'm pretty surprised they're doing PF2e mythic and only using part of a hardcover to do it. Considering that they had the entire book for PF1E and it didn't work out, I'd be concerned that there isn't enough page count to fully flesh out PF2E mythic. 8 monsters definitely doesn't seem like enough.

Mythic Adventures had a lot of "basic monster with template applied" that just wasn't a terribly efficient use of space.

For War of Immortals, we introduced half a dozen easy-to-apply templates and a single example monster for each, then did 8 robust and fully fleshed out 6-page monsters with world lore, supporting mechanics, and other elements that will provide a much stronger example of how to deploy mythic rules and enemies in adventures, as well as serving as launching points for adventures at various level ranges or across entire campaigns.

We'll talk about this more as we get closer to the release!

This has me SO hyped as someone who's painstakingly running a conversion of Wrath by hand. I can not wait for this book.

I’m in the same boat. (Converting Wrath by hand) I’m waiting for the Mythic rules before I convert book 2 and onwards…

Just perusing the Bard feats… Why can’t Sense Holy/Unholy be like Soulsight? There are no deception/stealth checks involved in that feat… Just straight up, you “smell” spirits within 60 feet.
For the cost of a level 8 feat a Champion can “smell” Holy/Unholy creatures. It’s pretty straightforward and elegant.

When do you suppose Paizo will start posting blogs on the contents of this book? June?
Can’t wait to hear about the changes to the classes, new items, archetypes, spells, etc…

Iron_Matt17 wrote:

Forgive me Michael, but isn’t the level 6 Attack of Opportunity a non-magical, non-god-worshiping feat as well?
Your point is still well made, regardless…

Fair enough, I probably skimmed right past it. Not that two feats across 8 levels of play is much of an improvement, as you note.

And the broader point is, of course, that class archetypes are things you deploy for concepts where changing 2 or 3 class features and adding 4-8 feats will give you the entirety of what you need to embody the variant concept.

If the concept can support dozens of unique feats across all 20 levels alongside multiple unique class features and new abilities, you're pretty far afield from what a class archetype can support.

Only a few more days now until you all get to see for yourselves what we've cooked up...

In the CRB I count three in total (Attack of Opportunity, Quick Block, and {oddly enough} Divine Wall) from 1-20. Not the chassis to make a non-magical, non-god-worshiping Champion by far. I’m excited to see what you guys came up with in the Guardian class. Still pretty jealous over the Champion and hoping it doesn’t get outshined by the Guardian, tbh. But I trust you guys.

Iron_Matt17 wrote:

A few creatures lost the Fiend trait, such as the Barghest and Onis. Which affected my Fiend-Smiting Champion in Fists of the Ruby Phoenix AP. (there are now no fiends in the AP) Thankfully, the Barghest gained the unholy trait and weakness to holy. But surprisingly, only the Snow Oni gained the unholy trait…

I'm all but certain that the snow oni retaining the Unholy trait is an error. I can't think of anything that makes them more prone to unholiness than the other oni.

Unless the error is not giving the Unholy trait to the others! A man can dream can’t he?… It’d be nice to have more stuff to smite for my Champion.

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I don't think the Guardian is there to step on the Champion's toes as a defender/tank class, I think it's there for people who want to play a defender/tank style class without any particular moral underpinnings.

Like my playtest Guardian character is going to be a proud son or daughter of Rahadoum.

I know this is somewhat blasphemy here but I hope with the rework I'm gonna be able to be a good smitey vengeance Paladin like in 5e. Not really an option for that kind of character atm which makes me sad.

I’m wondering if one of the Unholy Champions will be able to fit that design space in PC2.

Sanityfaerie wrote:

I think that trying to use a class archetype to carve the divine out of a Champion would have been a mistake. Like, you'd have to get rid of something like half the feats and multiple class features, on top of the anathema. That's not exactly something that a Class Archetype is well suited fro.

Very much this, yeah. A class archetype is for something where the core identity of two ideas is like 90% the same but there's one or two notable differences at a fundamental level that you need to adjust for. Just flipping open the CRB, there's literally not a single feat a non-magical, non-god-worshipping champion could take until 8th level, and then there's exactly one.

And that assumes that feats are the only things distinguishing a champion and guardian, which isn't exactly an occurrence I'd bet any money on having happen...

Forgive me Michael, but isn’t the level 6 Attack of Opportunity a non-magical, non-god-worshiping feat as well?

A few creatures lost the Fiend trait, such as the Barghest and Onis. Which affected my Fiend-Smiting Champion in Fists of the Ruby Phoenix AP. (there are now no fiends in the AP) Thankfully, the Barghest gained the unholy trait and weakness to holy. But surprisingly, only the Snow Oni gained the unholy trait…

exequiel759 wrote:

I'm pretty sure we would still have mythic "levels" as I'm pretty sure some of the mythic characters from PF1e still use them in PF2e. Don't quote me on the source since I can't find it, so probably I'm wrong on this one, but I'm sure to have seen mythic ranks somewhere in PF2e already.

Yeah, this is my guess as well for how progression can work. That's why I point to the "Life in the Academy" subsystem from Strength of Thousands. It's not directly attached to character level, so you can have significant story points where a mythic level would go up, and it has it's own common progression path no matter which school/mythic destiny you choose that says when you get more feats or a proficiency boost.

I’ve never read or played Strength of Thousands, so I had no idea about that subsystem… Now reading about it, I really hope they go down that path rather than FA. It would fit better with my Wrath of the Righteous Conversion, cuz the PCs don’t get Mythic until lvl 5. And gaining levels is through overcoming Mythic Trials, which is a cool concept.

I’ve been thinking about Blade of Justice and how I would like to see it changed. I’d like to see it changed to a more generic Champion’s Divine Power Attack with goodies.
Give it the Sanctified Trait, and get rid of the fluff. Let the Strike always deal two extra dice. If the target is the opposite Sanctification, then you can convert all the damage into spirit damage. (Or keep it as it is) And if you are a Paladin or an Antipaladin, the Strike applies all effects that normally apply on their Champion’s Reaction.
Paladins and Antipaladins are the only Causes that make sense to add the effects of their Reaction. All the while giving the Antipaladin some needed shine. (Choosing who gets the extra damage from Destructive Vengeance, extra persistent spirit damage and an AoE effect on their allies within 15 feet)

Iron_Matt17 wrote:

The Sense feats can probably stay as is, but maybe give it a precise sense for the niche.

You probably mean imprecise sense--giving the paladin the ability to see unholy creatures directly even if they're invisible or hiding is probably a bit too strong of a buff. Even just being able to know immediately where they are is a pretty potent ability, but as you say, the niche is a lot smaller now.

I did mean precise sense, but you do make a good point. I’d either give it a once or twice per day spell like ability, which graduates to all the time at higher levels. Or keep it on all the time and give the creature the Champion’s sensing stealth checks as well as deception checks. Though obviously, the feat will be dependent on what they have chosen to do with Detect Alignment and the like…

When the Champion errata came out for Remaster, I was overly optimistic about the changes. I came to appreciate Captain Morgan’s grounding comments on a thread like this one. So, Here are some of my thoughts on Champions in general when it comes to spirit damage/holy&unholy and what direction Paizo might go: (this’ll apply to both Holy & Unholy Champions)
The feats that got nerfed in the errata (IMO) are: Smite Evil/Good, Sense Evil/Good, Aura of Faith, Blade of Justice, Aura of Righteousness(?), Sacred Defender. The two big nerfs are the Smites and Aura of Faith. The list is very short now for what a Champion can Smite. (Fiends & most Undead for Holy, Celestials for Unholy, then a few outliers for both) So to fix that either Paizo will keep the feat’s numbers the same and give it a “Smite Anything” feel, or boost the damage numbers for such a niche feat. While for Aura of Faith, they’ll have to open that up more to perhaps you and your allies deal 1 spirit damage that has the holy/unholy trait in the aura.
The Sense feats can probably stay as is, but maybe give it a precise sense for the niche. Blade of Justice, I’m not sure what to do with… Aura of Righteousness may actually be better now, because that resistance applies to every type of damage from a fiend. Not just the evil damage.(Am I wrong here?) Sacred Defender should be broadened or given resistance 10 to all damage from a holy/unholy creature.
Lastly, I’d like to highlight the fact of how the errata buffed Divine Smite. Which I appreciate the change.

I want to add another hearty “thank you” to the Paizo team. I appreciate your hard work and am thankful for your wonderful product.

All this divine war has me REALLY curious what the champion rework looks like. Is the guardian eating one or two bits of the old champions lunch bc it's been rejiggered or is the champion pretty much the same with the alignment themed causes remaining but we just focus on "tenets" instead and wink at the crowd...

I’m very curious as well, but I don’t see Paizo “rejiggering” the Champion that much…

I’m keen on learning more about the Mythic rules… What are Mythic Destinies? Archetypes or something else? Can I plop my Free Archetype character in a Mythic Campaign without rearranging feats? (or seriously overhauling my character concept…)

James Jacobs wrote:

We don't officially categorize what the height break point is for creature sizes in 2nd edition...

According to this webpage, in Pathfinder First Edition the typical height and length of each creature size are concretely defined. I have always thought that Paizo has categorized the creature sizes in Second Edition just like it did in First Edition. But turns out there is no such concrete numbers in Second Edition and Remaster?

By the way, I tried to find the description about the typical height and length of each creature size that can be found in the above link from the First Edition Core Rulebook but I couldn't. Do you know on which page that particular content is located?

<pulls out broken down 1e CRB…>

Edit- There’s also a Random Height and Weight Chart on page 170…

I pay to play online and find it a very satisfying experience through StartPlaying.games
You may find free games there…

Champion’s Reaction.
I expected to miss Smite Evil, but I’ll take Retributive Strike over 1e Smite Evil any day.

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Do we *know* all undead are unholy?

Yes, the Remaster GM Core says "almost all undead are unholy" on p.127.

Captain Morgan wrote:

While I'm not sure I like this unholy undead Pharasma business, I think this a bigger lore than mechanics problem. Just because something has the unholy trait does not mean it has a weakness to holy. See: cleric Sanctification.

Most undead probably won't have a holy weakness, just like they didn't have a good weaknesses pre-remaster. Instead, they will just take the extra damage from holy light just like they did from searing light pre-remaster. Holy light isn't a sanctified spell and already has the holy trait, so Pharasmans can use it the same as always.

Good point. It's somewhat confusing that holy/unholy interactions are handled in multiple different ways. You have:

-spells that always trigger a unholy/holy weakness of the target
-spells that only trigger a unholy/holy weakness if the caster is sanctified
-spells that always deal extra damage to a holy/unholy target regardless of the caster's sanctification or whether the target has a weakness to unholy/holy.

So post-remaster, a spell like Divine Immolation (new Flame Strike) will never deal more damage to undead, whether you're sanctified or not.

And at the other end of the spectrum, a spell like Holy Light will always deal extra damage to undead and fiends, and then deal EVEN MORE extra damage to devils who have a weakness to holy.

So it turns out Pharasma isn't as cringe as we assumed. :P

I just want to point out that the Fiend trait has weakness to holy, so Demons and Daemons are weak to holy as well. (and any other fiends) It seems to me that the Devil trait having the weakness to holy is a redundancy…

Sanityfaerie wrote:

Champions add holy or unholy trait (as appropriate) to all strikes now? Well, that's a thing.

That's my favorite part of this compatibility shift. I've been hoping for something like this a long time. I'm fine with champions having lower damage in general, but their options for doing more damage to fiends were too narrow and too high level. Now champions just smite things.

Now several of those later options have gotten a gross nerf-- they now only deal damage to unholy creatures, which is a narrower subset than evil creatures were. Divine eidolons got a similar nerf. You can just skip those options, though, and hopefully they get buffed in PC2. Overall the champion came out ahead here.

Causes got a little funky. Weird that they put "don't hurt innocents" as an edict instead of "harm innocents" as an Anethema. We also lost a little nuance about not needing to prevent potential harm far off in the future, but that's probably a space thing.

I'm hoping PC3 gives us way to play non-sanctified paladins of Pharasma. Redeemer was always a poor fit for the Lady of Graves. There are other examples like that as well.

In my estimation, the only two later feats getting gross nerfs is: Smite Evil and Aura of Faith. But then again, I find the massive buffs to Divine Smite and Blade of Justice far outshine the nerfs… The Champion Reaction now affects most creatures with its persistent damage. Now with Blade of Justice, the Champion can for one more action convert all their damage into Spirit damage (which most creatures won’t resist) and proc persistent damage, and perhaps give their teammates a chance to Strike the target. And hey! If the target is Unholy, then two more damage dice as cherries on top!

Also, if I’m not mistaken… Undead are Unholy automatically. Perhaps with a weakness to Holy or not.

I don’t have the pdf for the GM Core yet; but from everything I have seen they have chosen to not include the Dual Class Variant rule in the GM Core.

Honestly, I like the flexibility FA brings to the game. Yes, most archetypes are not built for 2-20, so I’m sure Paizo could update that if they wished. But there are plenty of flavour options out there. My GMPC is a Charismatic Champion with Marshal (for a charismatic support role) and Lastwall Archetype. (to signify his training in Lastwall before it blew up) Meanwhile, my wife’s Ranger is taking all Beastmaster feats to get more pets. More breathing room to flesh out our characters, I find.
Though I am curious as to how they will implement Mythic. Will it run as the Free Archetype currently runs? What if you want to keep your FA concepts? Will they work together or just be a pain? I’m trying to mentally prepare myself for the various options.

I suspect that they’re retooling the generic Weapon Specialization into more flavoured/class focused. I’m hoping that they bring Spirit Striking to the Champion & Warpriest Cleric honestly.

I hope that we get some more of those item based archetypes. Be really cool to wield some kind of mythical, legendary weapon and become mythic alongside it.

That might be an idea, but I find that in the past Mythic was event based. Some big event “unlocked” Mythical powers for the PCs.