Pathfinder Player Core 2

it doesn't display what's actually contained within the book

- Sorcerer

I mean, fair there's probably no cyclopes in the book, and I'm not sure if the Seoni's staff would be a PC1, but I'm not sure what else should depicted if not a bunch of core classes on a core rulebook featuring those classes and otherwise mostly rules content?

I don't like the cover art.

It's bombarding, and it doesn't display what's actually contained within the book. Looks more like the cover of a short rip off adventure quest of King Kong.

It has the Iconic Alchemist, Sorcerer, and Swashbuckler on it, all on some daring adventure together - y'know, the thing player characters do?

It's basically a similar concept to the APG cover, but on the peak of a mountain instead of at sea. :P

So the release date for the book is pushed back to September?

So the release date for the book is pushed back to September?

Not sure where you're getting that? This page says "PDF Available August 1". Its always been slotted as a GenCon release that typically come out late July/early August.

Fun fact from the new errata posted today: Ki Spells are now being referred to as Qi Spells!

Also, Bullet Dancer lost access to Brawling Focus, so maybe that's a hint that Brawling Focus is no longer there for Monk? Time to speculate!

Fun fact from the new errata posted today: Ki Spells are now being referred to as Qi Spells!

Anyone have a view why they might've changed it? As far as I know, qi is the accepted transliteration from Chinese; ki, from the Japanese--neither is more "authentic" or whatever than the other. (I suppose the monk trope draws more from China--or, really, Hong Kong--than Japan, though; maybe that's it.)

“Ki” is a hold-over artifact from D&D. It was was a part of the lexicon of rules language from the game’s earlier editions and came over with the Monk class when Pathfinder 1st edition was created. I’m not surprised it changed to “Qi” given Pathfinder’s transition away from the SRD/OGL and to the ORC License with the Remaster.

Most of the flavor of the Monk is also closer to Wuxia, and thus Chinese culture than Japanese, so having that one Japanese word was weird. Even the things that I can think of that could be Japanese anime references often were Japanese interpretation of Chinese myths, like the Dragon Ball references. (Dragon Ball heavily borrow from the myths of Sun Wukong in Journey to the West.)

Most of the flavor of the Monk is also closer to Wuxia, and thus Chinese culture than Japanese, so having that one Japanese word was weird. Even the things that I can think of that could be Japanese anime references often were Japanese interpretation of Chinese myths, like the Dragon Ball references. (Dragon Ball heavily borrow from the myths of Sun Wukong in Journey to the West.)

I see thou art a Mask of refined culture and lore.

Hey there, everyone! Guess what Thurston Hillman said during Rotgrind today? He spoke about a small little detail about Player Core 2!

Zoran (Host of Rotgrind and one of the players): "I enjoy that fanart of Vina where she goes, "I'mma do a backflip! AHHHHHHHHHH!""
Thurston: "Oh, OH! Somewhat related, though... All I'm gonna say is Swashbucklers get some really good tech in PC2 coming out in a few months."
Zoran: "Does it require 50 actions to set up?"
Thurston: "Uh, no, in fact they get buffed even if they don't have panache."

(Vina, for those who don't watch Rotgrind, is the party's Swashbuckler and designated backflipper!)

Hey there, everyone! Guess what Thurston Hillman said during Rotgrind today? He spoke about a small little detail about Player Core 2!

Zoran (Host of Rotgrind and one of the players): "I enjoy that fanart of Vina where she goes, "I'mma do a backflip! AHHHHHHHHHH!""
Thurston: "Oh, OH! Somewhat related, though... All I'm gonna say is Swashbucklers get some really good tech in PC2 coming out in a few months."
Zoran: "Does it require 50 actions to set up?"
Thurston: "Uh, no, in fact they get buffed even if they don't have panache."

(Vina, for those who don't watch Rotgrind, is the party's Swashbuckler and designated backflipper!)

Good stuff, I'm keen to see what an updated swash and investigator look like given the state of new martials since the APG

Today's news about the changes to Champions has me very, very happy: there are subclasses decoupled from Sanctification! TMS's notes say that Champions of Grandeur are Holy, that Champions of Iniquity are Unholy, but Champions of Justice aren't locked into a specific Sanctification.

Are there still just the six subclasses? Is the "Champions of..." naming now standard, instead of Paladin, Redeemer, etcetera? I never liked "Antipaladin" anyway.

Are there still just the six subclasses? Is the "Champions of..." naming now standard, instead of Paladin, Redeemer, etcetera? I never liked "Antipaladin" anyway.

It's still Causes, so it'd be a "Cause of Justice" Champion. Luis spoke before in a different interview, saying that Paladins are now the "Cause of Justice". Also seems to encompass Antipaladin, if CoJ Champions aren't locked into either Sanctification.

During the panel today, regarding the archetypes that were originally in the APG, the designers stated that they “…cut a few that were very OGL themed…”.

My guesses for the cut archetypes are those that seem to have been inspired by D&D3e’s DMG prestige classes and the Marshal class from that edition: Marshal, Dragon Disciple, Horizon Walker, Loremaster, and Shadowdancer. I think it is less likely, but they might also either cut or rename Assassin and Duelist. But, those names are so general, they might keep them. Eldritch Archer (Arcane Archer in the OGL) and Sentinel (Dwarven Defender in the OGL) might be in peril, too, but with them already being renamed and disassociated from elves and dwarves,respectively, from their OGL versions, I think they ought to be okay.

They also stated that the Wrestler archetype was added to PC2.

I had a feeling the conceptualization of Champion subclasses would get the same treatment as the Wizard. Ironically this is kinda closer to how 5e does Paladins! One thing they briefly mentioned that was on my wishlist is that your focus spell is divorced from your cause. The old way left some odd fringe cases; maybe you march for Lamashtu, in the name of the unholy, but you're still all about community and want to heal your (beautifully monstrous) living friends. Meanwhile the psychopomp ushers occasionally allowed evil alignments, might have worked for a Desecrator, but they would never have automatically given you the spell that heals undead.

Ed Reppert wrote:

Are there still just the six subclasses? Is the "Champions of..." naming now standard, instead of Paladin, Redeemer, etcetera? I never liked "Antipaladin" anyway.

It's still Causes, so it'd be a "Cause of Justice" Champion. Luis spoke before in a different interview, saying that Paladins are now the "Cause of Justice". Also seems to encompass Antipaladin, if CoJ Champions aren't locked into either Sanctification.

Could you give a source for that Luis quote? I’m actually pretty upset that they’d take the Paladin in this direction…

Ezekieru wrote:

Ed Reppert wrote:

Are there still just the six subclasses? Is the "Champions of..." naming now standard, instead of Paladin, Redeemer, etcetera? I never liked "Antipaladin" anyway.

It's still Causes, so it'd be a "Cause of Justice" Champion. Luis spoke before in a different interview, saying that Paladins are now the "Cause of Justice". Also seems to encompass Antipaladin, if CoJ Champions aren't locked into either Sanctification.

Could you give a source for that Luis quote? I’m actually pretty upset that they’d take the Paladin in this direction…

I think it was during Badluck Gamer’s interview with Luis from about a week ago, if I’m not mistaken. I’m not 100% certain of that, though.

Ezekieru wrote:

Ed Reppert wrote:

Are there still just the six subclasses? Is the "Champions of..." naming now standard, instead of Paladin, Redeemer, etcetera? I never liked "Antipaladin" anyway.

It's still Causes, so it'd be a "Cause of Justice" Champion. Luis spoke before in a different interview, saying that Paladins are now the "Cause of Justice". Also seems to encompass Antipaladin, if CoJ Champions aren't locked into either Sanctification.

Could you give a source for that Luis quote? I’m actually pretty upset that they’d take the Paladin in this direction…

HERE, at around 31 minutes. Luis talks about how the Paladin is no longer called the Paladin, they are now the "Cause of Justice".

Iron_Matt17 wrote:

Ezekieru wrote:

Ed Reppert wrote:

Are there still just the six subclasses? Is the "Champions of..." naming now standard, instead of Paladin, Redeemer, etcetera? I never liked "Antipaladin" anyway.

It's still Causes, so it'd be a "Cause of Justice" Champion. Luis spoke before in a different interview, saying that Paladins are now the "Cause of Justice". Also seems to encompass Antipaladin, if CoJ Champions aren't locked into either Sanctification.

Could you give a source for that Luis quote? I’m actually pretty upset that they’d take the Paladin in this direction…

HERE, at around 31 minutes. Luis talks about how the Paladin is no longer called the Paladin, they are now the "Cause of Justice".

Thanks

Sounds like they would be a Champion whose Cause is Justice, so "Champion of Justice" would be the name. I don't think that encompasses Antipaladin, btw, unless perhaps the idea is that whether it's Law or Chaos is irrelevant to the cause of justice. Or that Antipaladins aren't the Cause of "ME, ME, it's all about ME!" Which doesn't resemble Justice in any way I can see.

IAC, now the big question with respect to Champions seems to be "how many Causes can be identified, and what are they?"

Sounds like they would be a Champion whose Cause is Justice, so "Champion of Justice" would be the name.

<Shirou Emiya perks up>

There's a feat called Armor Proficiency. It improves your armor proficiency by 1 set each time you take it.

Applied_People wrote:

I predict no more easy dipping into Champion for heavy armor and the champion's reaction.

We really need a better way to add heavy armor proficiency to a character than "getting religion" anyway.

There's a feat called Armor Proficiency. It improves your armor proficiency by 1 set each time you take it.

David knott 242 wrote:

Applied_People wrote:

I predict no more easy dipping into Champion for heavy armor and the champion's reaction.

We really need a better way to add heavy armor proficiency to a character than "getting religion" anyway.

Unfortunately, the Armor Proficiency feat only makes you trained in the new armor and then expert at 13th level. For a number of classes, like Ranger, that's way behind the armor proficiency advancements granted by the class. (It's good for full casters like Wizards, though.)

But there is the Sentinel archetype (possibly combined with the Armor Proficiency feat to get light and/or medium proficiency first) as a non-religious option for getting heavy armor proficiency that scales based on the class progression.

Will this book be for physical purchase at Gencon 2024?

I've heard that wrestler is going to make it into this book (yay!) and was wondering if captivator and/or spell trickster were also in the running or if wrestler was the only extra archetype added from the og apg? I remember hearing a while ago that those three archetypes were originally slated to be in the apg but had to be cut for space and so ended up in grand bazaar.

I really like captivator but with spell schools gone it needs a remaster update. If not in apg then hopefully an errata.

Will this book be for physical purchase at Gencon 2024?

We will absolutely have copies for you to purchase physically at Gen Con!

I've heard that wrestler is going to make it into this book (yay!) and was wondering if captivator and/or spell trickster were also in the running or if wrestler was the only extra archetype added from the og apg? I remember hearing a while ago that those three archetypes were originally slated to be in the apg but had to be cut for space and so ended up in grand bazaar.

I really like captivator but with spell schools gone it needs a remaster update. If not in apg then hopefully an errata.

Only thing said was that Wrestler was being added to the archetypes in PC2, and some archetypes would not be coming back due to the OGL stuff (Dragon Disciple being confirmed on Discord as one of the said archetypes).

Gaulin wrote:

I've heard that wrestler is going to make it into this book (yay!) and was wondering if captivator and/or spell trickster were also in the running or if wrestler was the only extra archetype added from the og apg? I remember hearing a while ago that those three archetypes were originally slated to be in the apg but had to be cut for space and so ended up in grand bazaar.

I really like captivator but with spell schools gone it needs a remaster update. If not in apg then hopefully an errata.

Only thing said was that Wrestler was being added to the archetypes in PC2, and some archetypes would not be coming back due to the OGL stuff (Dragon Disciple being confirmed on Discord as one of the said archetypes).

Aww man no dragon disciple? That's too bad. Hopefully we get something cool in it's place. Maybe with some archetypes being removed there is a chance for captivator and such at least.

Huh... are they not reprinting Inventor, Gunslinger, and Thaumaturge? Or are they planning a Player Core 3?

Still kinda really hoping for Thaumaturge Dedication Errata that adds Esoteric Lore as a part of the Dedication.

Currently there are no plans for full reprints of those classes, nor a Player Core 3.

I hope Captivator is reprinted and updated.

Still kinda really hoping for Thaumaturge Dedication Errata that adds Esoteric Lore as a part of the Dedication.

A class's stat substitution options aren't usually available outside of class. Investigator and Chirurgeon Alchemist both avoid giving theirs out, and Commander has rules text preemptively in place to prevent/delay it even before the multiclass archetype is out. Esoteric Lore would probably stay Thaumaturge exclusive even in a reprint.

Capti-who?

Do we have any idea when the July subscriptions will have orders generated?

There has been no announced change to the shipping window, which starts tomorrow. If you're talking about the authorization run, they've reported problems with that which as far as I know have not yet been resolved, so you may not yet have seen an authorization email. I do not know if Paizo's system would allow shipping to start if the authorization run has not been completed, though IMO it should.

Do we have any idea when the July subscriptions will have orders generated?

There has been no announced change to the shipping window, which starts tomorrow. If you're talking about the authorization run, they've reported problems with that which as far as I know have not yet been resolved, so you may not yet have seen an authorization email. I do not know if Paizo's system would allow shipping to start if the authorization run has not been completed, though IMO it should.

To Ed: Terevalis said July, and considering they are posting on the Player Core 2 product page, I assume it is not a typo. :P

To Terevalis: The real answer is that we don't know when they will start authorization, as the thread haven't been created.

BUT. Last years it was on July 13th for a street day of August 3rd, the year before it was on July 8th for a street date of July 27th...
Based on these precedents, I would expect it to start around July 11th for a street date of August 1st. But there's no guarantee that this is correct. Just a guess on my part.

Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:

Do we have any idea when the July subscriptions will have orders generated?

Ed Reppert wrote:

There has been no announced change to the shipping window, which starts tomorrow. If you're talking about the authorization run, they've reported problems with that which as far as I know have not yet been resolved, so you may not yet have seen an authorization email. I do not know if Paizo's system would allow shipping to start if the authorization run has not been completed, though IMO it should.

To Ed: Terevalis said July, and considering they are posting on the Player Core 2 product page, I assume it is not a typo. :P

To Terevalis: The real answer is that we don't know when they will start authorization, as the thread haven't been created.

BUT. Last years it was on July 13th for a street day of August 3rd, the year before it was on July 8th for a street date of July 27th...
Based on these precedents, I would expect it to start around July 11th for a street date of August 1st. But there's no guarantee that this is correct. Just a guess on my part.

In any case, the wait will be excruciating this time around. I've been looking forward to this book for half a year now. Really interested to see what they've done with the Champion and Swashbuckler.

Ezekieru wrote:

Only thing said was that Wrestler was being added to the archetypes in PC2, and some archetypes would not be coming back due to the OGL stuff (Dragon Disciple being confirmed on Discord as one of the said archetypes).

Aww man no dragon disciple?

We had broodsalt in AP; Dragonbroodsalt?

Are we getting snares back in this book?

Are we getting snares back in this book?

Yes, Snares and the Snarecrafter archetype will be in this book. And Rangers will get extra benefits from the Snarecrafter archetype, so they'll still be the best class to make snares with.

What information do we have on the dragon folk heritage?

Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:

Do we have any idea when the July subscriptions will have orders generated?

Ed Reppert wrote:

There has been no announced change to the shipping window, which starts tomorrow. If you're talking about the authorization run, they've reported problems with that which as far as I know have not yet been resolved, so you may not yet have seen an authorization email. I do not know if Paizo's system would allow shipping to start if the authorization run has not been completed, though IMO it should.

To Ed: Terevalis said July, and considering they are posting on the Player Core 2 product page, I assume it is not a typo. :P

To Terevalis: The real answer is that we don't know when they will start authorization, as the thread haven't been created.

BUT. Last years it was on July 13th for a street day of August 3rd, the year before it was on July 8th for a street date of July 27th...
Based on these precedents, I would expect it to start around July 11th for a street date of August 1st. But there's no guarantee that this is correct. Just a guess on my part.

Thank you!!

What information do we have on the dragon folk heritage?

The Dragonblood versatile heritage will be very customizable. You can choose how dragon-looking you are (ranging from "basically a humanoid with a dragon for a head, to just having horns and draconic eyes, and everything else in-between). There'll be 4 lineages to choose, one of each magical tradition (Arcane, Divine, Occult and Primal). And a fair bit of the Kobold's draconic features were ported over and adjusted for the Dragonblood.

June, July, what's the difference?! :-)

Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:

What information do we have on the dragon folk heritage?

The Dragonblood versatile heritage will be very customizable. You can choose how dragon-looking you are (ranging from "basically a humanoid with a dragon for a head, to just having horns and draconic eyes, and everything else in-between). There'll be 4 lineages to choose, one of each magical tradition (Arcane, Divine, Occult and Primal). And a fair bit of the Kobold's draconic features were ported over and adjusted for the Dragonblood.

Gracias. They will be replacing the Dragon Disciple?

No, they're not an archetype, they're a versatile heritage.

No, they're not an archetype, they're a versatile heritage.

That does not preclude them from getting the feats associated with the DD.

After going over my alchemist for PFS I’m really excited for some new alchemical goodies in this book..if any of the authors wanted to chime in with any alchemical spoilers I wouldn’t mind ;-)