Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Wilderness

Mark. I have a shifter guide almost done. When can i publish it?

I would say waiting at least for the public release of the book would be in good taste. However, as I've cautioned potential guide authors in the past, it might be better to wait just a bit longer anyway to get more data , trying out a few builds in play and finding synergies and the like.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/shaping-focus

This should work with shifter, right?

What is the aromaphile like? How different is the Wolf Style tree from its original incarnation? What is the gathlain's new kineticist FCB like? :p

Mark. I have a shifter guide almost done. When can i publish it?

I'm looking forward to it, hopefully some aspects of the Shifter are worthwhile.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/shaping-focus

This should work with shifter, right?

They have the Wild shape class feature and an effective druid level for it. Seems fine to me.

PS: I look forward to checking out the guide and maybe adding some comments of my own.

Rowe. The dinosaur one (i cant spell the name from memory atm) and the tiger one are both purple for similar reasons. The wolverine one is also purple as it is just amazing. Its like being a barbarian / shifter hybrid

Matrix Dragon wrote:

That Sean fellow wrote:

Wait, there's a lycanthrope archetype?!

Yep, it is limited, but nice and flavorful. The shifter only gains one animal type, but gains DR/silver equal to half his shifter level. At level 4 he can also enter a hybrid form (of his size I believe) which has all of the animal form's abilities and automatically gains his shifter claws if he wants. Yay for werewolves that actually have claws!

The only problem I have with it is that it *still* struggles to be as good as something like the mooncursed barbarian (unless I am mistaken). Though the sheer amount of DR this archetype can get is nice, since most creatures can't bypass DR/silver.

yes, this one hit the nail on the head for flavor, no doubt.

mechanically, you have humanoid form AND all the attacks from major form. For instance, you can take the dino form and get 2 talons attacks and a bite then add weapon attacks then at 8th you get 2 forearm attacks too, meaning that if you use a non-hand weapon, like armor spikes or boulder helmet, you could make full weapon attacks and 5 natural weapon ones: then add that they can pounce from the start [4th]. Even if you don't use the natural weapons, you have a 120' pounce/charge...

Add the DR, and it's seems pretty solid IMO. Maybe not THE best, but I wouldn't complain if someone asked me to play one. ;)

PS: I noticed the void reference Mark. I thought it might have been you. :)

SOLD!

From what I've heard so far I'm definitely going to be playing with the Lycanthrope Archetype, The Green Knight and the Nature Vigilante from these books at the very least.

Sean, where are you playing PFS? I am Joburg too

Sean, where are you playing PFS? I am Joburg too

PFS...Pretty much only at Icon and on the boards here. Since there's no venture captains around and no other games really except in Pretoria and Durban I think.

Pity there's no Crocodile shape for the shifter from the sounds of it. I think it would be fun for a Osirian Shifter.

J4RH34D wrote:

Sean, where are you playing PFS? I am Joburg too

PFS...Pretty much only at Icon and on the boards here. Since there's no venture captains around and no other games really except in Pretoria and Durban I think.

I pmed you.

im sure my subscription is in there somewhere. problem is its already been 8 days since i processed the payment for it.

Shark shifter?

Also, though I've only fully read the nonvermin, nonplant animal companions thus far, all of them are cool both thematically and mechanically as far as I can see. Anglerfish, Celocanth, and Giant Squid are awesome aquatic additions, Yak as a large creature at 1st so it can be used as a mount is a godsend, the Saber-toothed cat has some amazing mechanical design with an insane bite damage AND an incentive to get the thing to grapple making it both mechanically interesting & novel AND historically accurate, and the marsupial lion made me look up a thing I never heard of and instantly want to have one as an animal companion. And that's just like the tip of the iceberg too, they finally did an Eohippus and I want to see a ranger with a tracking mini protohorse, Capybaras can be mounts for halflings who I now want to see on one in fullplate, and Tasmanian Devils are here and my only complaint is no ferocity. Also, Taz is a standard on the Ranger's Animal Companion list which is awesome. Also, they have wolfdogs now.

That all, is dope as s&%&.

Thanks! I designed the new animal companions (i.e. all except the llama, moose, and panda, which I think are reprints). I made it a point to include animals from as many continents & climate zones as possible, to include both extinct & extant species, new mounts for both Small and Medium PCs, and to include a few new variants for animals that were previously a bit generic. Glad to hear that you like the new stuff!

I wanted to make the new variants mechanically different from the existing companions and used real-world animals for inspiration. I found some interesting details on how, for example, saber-toothed cats were physically different from modern felines, and how it affected their hunting methods.

For the curious, I also designed:

I wish there was a rhino aspect that gave 2/4/6 natural enhanvement bonus to AC. Then i could emu late The Rhino from Spiderman!

This is all pretty cool. Any chance I can get more info on the Bard and Skald Archetypes?

Also, are any of the Ranger archetypes Spell-less?

Anyone have any info on the Wasteland Meditant archetype for monk?

What does the natural philosopher do?

Fourshadow wrote:

Wish I could stack the new Star Watcher Investigator with my Lamplighter...really cool archetype that gets proficiency with Starknife and Astrological extracts (means you make and read star charts to activate extracts).

Star Watcher sounds fun. I'll be curious as to whether it makes a viable switchhitter. But your Lamplighter is going to be happier with a Lantern Staff than Starknives anyway. :)

Very true, but that combination could've been so beautiful, could've been so right...(and if you get the reference, you may be over 40!).

What does the natural philosopher do?

Declare things that they like natural law and thus right?

How different is the Wolf Style tree from its original incarnation? What is the gathlain's new kineticist FCB like?

With Wolf Style, the amount of damage beyond the initial 10 you need to deal to reduce their speed was doubled. There are also minor clarifications regarding duration and the order of resolution of events. Wolf Trip received a small nerf regarding where your victims can land, and Wolf Savage was changed from acting as Bestow Curse to let you either fatigue, deal CHA damage, or deal CON damage.

Galthains don't have a Kineticist FCB listed :P Vine Leshys can get extra wood-element wild talents, though.

Also, are any of the Ranger archetypes Spell-less?

Some of the archetypes add spells to your spell list, but none of them swap out spells :/

Anyone have any info on the Wasteland Meditant archetype for monk?

It's a chained monk archetype that swaps Stunning Fist out for something that fatigues your opponent, and can be activated as a free action when you deal damage (no need to declare that you're using it ahead of time!). It gets Evasion/Improved Evasion for Fort. saves, and concealment when taking double move actions in a desert. It can also turn people into salt at 15th level, instead of quivering fist :D

I don't expect to ever play a game set in a desert, so I probably won't ever use it, but if you are planning to this is an archetype worth considering, at least. It's a cool archetype.

does the stargazer just get proficiency in star knives? or does it get so special abilities with them as well?

Does anyone know why Wolf Style was nerfed? It was a cool feat chain, but it wasn't something that really struck me as overpowered.

Because bestow curse is f!+#ing scary. And near limitless in what it can do.

NewXToa wrote:

Does anyone know why Wolf Style was nerfed? It was a cool feat chain, but it wasn't something that really struck me as overpowered.

Because bestow curse is f*~$ing scary. And near limitless in what it can do.

...but the spell started showing up at least 4 character levels before you can take Wolf Savage. 3rd-level cleric spell, vs. requiring 9 ranks in Knowledge (Nature).

And the feat was the third in a chain, required a higher Wis than most martials will have, has strict usage requirements, and STILL allows a save. And Wolf Trip only triggers on AoOs, which generally implies reach weapons, but Wolf Savage only triggers on unarmed/natural attacks (so generally not reach weapons.)

Wolf Trip may only trigger on AoOs but Wolf Savage happens any time you damage a prone opponent. If you're taking Style feats there's usually a certain build you're going for along with it, and if you have a Unarmed Strike/Natural Attack character built for tripping this ability is probably gonna go off a lot more than the equivalent level spellcasters memorizing the spell.

That and the WS version goes of Fortitude rather than Will.

does the stargazer just get proficiency in star knives? or does it get so special abilities with them as well?

The Star Watcher archetype also gets access to two investigator talents that work with starknifes.

Because bestow curse is f&+$ing scary. And near limitless in what it can do.

*mumble mumble* martials *mumble* nice things *mumble mumble*

I guess I can see why they'd nerf Wolf Savage, but as shaventalz said, that was only the 3rd feat in the chain. In addition, the nerfs they made to Wolf Style and Wolf Trip didn't affect how often Wolf Savage triggers at all, so there was apparently more than just Bestow Curse that the devs had an issue with.
Edit: Sorry, I meant to say "some of the nerfs made to..."

Wolf Trip may only trigger on AoOs but Wolf Savage happens any time you damage a prone opponent. If you're taking Style feats there's usually a certain build you're going for along with it, and if you have a Unarmed Strike/Natural Attack character built for tripping this ability is probably gonna go off a lot more than the equivalent level spellcasters memorizing the spell.

That and the WS version goes of Fortitude rather than Will.

My point with the whole AoO thing was that, for most builds trying to use Wolf Savage, the first feat in the chain is useless. For that matter, a decent chunk of the second feat in the chain only works off of trip attempts during AoOs - the first feat doesn't use a trip attempt, and the third feat specifies a combat style that is more difficult to get AoOs with. So, potentially, you've spent two feats that don't synergize well with each other or your goal feat just to get here.

And yes, I realize it can happen the first time you damage a prone opponent on your turn (takes a swift action). That was part of the usage restriction I mentioned. And really, most of the stuff you'd have prone in melee is either dead anyway (caster types) or has a higher Fort than Will (most melee enemies.)

Wolf Trip wasn't changed at all.

I believe that instead of being able to make the creature land in a space adjacent to you, it now needs to be a square adjacent to both you and the creature in question.

I believe that instead of being able to make the creature land in a space adjacent to you, it now needs to be a square adjacent to both you and the creature in question.

*rereads*

Ah, gotcha.

Rysky wrote:

Wolf Trip may only trigger on AoOs but Wolf Savage happens any time you damage a prone opponent. If you're taking Style feats there's usually a certain build you're going for along with it, and if you have a Unarmed Strike/Natural Attack character built for tripping this ability is probably gonna go off a lot more than the equivalent level spellcasters memorizing the spell.

That and the WS version goes of Fortitude rather than Will.

My point with the whole AoO thing was that, for most builds trying to use Wolf Savage, the first feat in the chain is useless. For that matter, a decent chunk of the second feat in the chain only works off of trip attempts during AoOs - the first feat doesn't use a trip attempt, and the third feat specifies a combat style that is more difficult to get AoOs with. So, potentially, you've spent two feats that don't synergize well with each other or your goal feat just to get here.

And yes, I realize it can happen the first time you damage a prone opponent on your turn (takes a swift action). That was part of the usage restriction I mentioned. And really, most of the stuff you'd have in melee is either dead anyway (caster types) or has a higher Fort than Will (most melee enemies.)

I don't see how, if you do enough damage it trips them, which is a possible setup for Wolf Savage, since you can hit them with it on your turn or when they try to stand back up. Wolf Trip builds off Style.

And then Wolf Savage just requires they be prone, the other feats help with that but as long as the target is prone you can use, so tripping or a spellcaster casting grease, etc.

As for targets while the High Fortitude will be a problem there's the High Reflexes and Will save classes/creatures.

Gisher wrote:

Fourshadow wrote:

Wish I could stack the new Star Watcher Investigator with my Lamplighter...really cool archetype that gets proficiency with Starknife and Astrological extracts (means you make and read star charts to activate extracts).

Star Watcher sounds fun. I'll be curious as to whether it makes a viable switchhitter. But your Lamplighter is going to be happier with a Lantern Staff than Starknives anyway. :)

Very true, but that combination could've been so beautiful, could've been so right...(and if you get the reference, you may be over 40!).

I didn't get the reference because I'm too far over 40. Tiffany was after my teenage pop music phase. You kids and your crazy, newfangled music. :)

Your post did make me realize that I can't think of any Investigator archetypes that stack. I think they've been careful not to let that happen - at least with the good ones.

The Sideromancer wrote:

What does the natural philosopher do?

Declare things that they like natural law and thus right?

Wait tables until a tenure-track teaching position opens up?

I wish there was a rhino aspect that gave 2/4/6 natural enhanvement bonus to AC. Then i could emu late The Rhino from Spiderman!

My favorite animal is the rhino so I fully support this idea.

I wish there were at least one aquatic option for the shifter. With Ruins of Azlant and a general aquatic focus recently it would have been nice to get more than frog.

In general still looking forward to the shifter, since I play at home making the common sense thing to make workable aren't hard. And as the only player in my group with an eye toward optiization having something that's a little lower but still cool story is a good option for me personally. And even if it isn't what I wanted exactly I still see potential in what it is (without having the book).

It is too bad that there does not seem to be a "Wild Origins" Player Companion coming out next month. I have generally really liked those supplements. I guess they are skipping them now because of the elimination of the old hardback = generic/companion = world specific rule.

Verzen wrote:

I wish there was a rhino aspect that gave 2/4/6 natural enhanvement bonus to AC. Then i could emu late The Rhino from Spiderman!

My favorite animal is the rhino so I fully support this idea.

I wish there were at least one aquatic option for the shifter. With Ruins of Azlant and a general aquatic focus recently it would have been nice to get more than frog.

In general still looking forward to the shifter, since I play at home making the common sense thing to make workable aren't hard. And as the only player in my group with an eye toward optiization having something that's a little lower but still cool story is a good option for me personally. And even if it isn't what I wanted exactly I still see potential in what it is (without having the book).

I'm hoping down the line we get shark and crocodile options for the shifter among others like say.. an armadillo or skunk. Those could be super fun.

Sir_Andrew wrote:

does the stargazer just get proficiency in star knives? or does it get so special abilities with them as well?

The Star Watcher archetype also gets access to two investigator talents that work with starknifes.

Ok, this has now become the first thing I'm checking out when I get this book.

jedi8187 wrote:

Verzen wrote:

I wish there was a rhino aspect that gave 2/4/6 natural enhanvement bonus to AC. Then i could emu late The Rhino from Spiderman!

My favorite animal is the rhino so I fully support this idea.

I wish there were at least one aquatic option for the shifter. With Ruins of Azlant and a general aquatic focus recently it would have been nice to get more than frog.

In general still looking forward to the shifter, since I play at home making the common sense thing to make workable aren't hard. And as the only player in my group with an eye toward optiization having something that's a little lower but still cool story is a good option for me personally. And even if it isn't what I wanted exactly I still see potential in what it is (without having the book).

I'm hoping down the line we get shark and crocodile options for the shifter among others like say.. an armadillo or skunk. Those could be super fun.

I'm fairly certain we will get new foci as more supplements come out. Which reminds me the new animal foci in this book for the shifter, does the Hunter get access to them? Would be easy enough to adapt them for the hunter if not?

I don't see how, if you do enough damage it trips them,

If you hit them hard enough with *an AoO*. Not just a freebie during your turn. If you can force them to provoke during your turn, sure, but that gets even more niche.

which is a possible setup for Wolf Savage, since you can hit them with it on your turn or when they try to stand back up.

Nope. Your turn only, because Wolf Savage requires a swift action to activate. And it's not "swift action to turn on the ability", it's "swift action after punching them," so no out-of-turn usage.

Wolf Trip builds off Style.

How? Wolf Style doesn't actually make a trip attempt, and the first half of Wolf Trip gives a bonus to some trip attempts. The second half of Wolf Trip would apply, but it would also apply to any other trip attempts. If it didn't have the prerequisite, I wouldn't be able to tell it's actually part of a feat chain.

As for targets while the High Fortitude will be a problem there's the High Reflexes and Will save classes/creatures.

The enemies with higher Ref or Will generally also have lower HP, and Wolf Style (feat #1) requires you to be able to do massive amounts of damage in a single blow. I'll grant that the change helps if you've got an outsider or fey prone at your feet (generally lower Fort bonus from HD), but they're also some of the creature types that are more likely to fly or have other tricky abilities to keep them from going prone. I doubt Wolf Savage works on objects, so Undead are safe. The change to Fort probably most helps against Aberrations and Monstrous Humanoids, but overall I would say that it's a less-desirable save to target for this particular use.

EDIT: Getting a little off-topic with this tangent, though. Back to the new stuff!

Are there any new familiars that would be a stronger Mauler than the fox?

It is too bad that there does not seem to be a "Wild Origins" Player Companion coming out next month. I have generally really liked those supplements. I guess they are skipping them now because of the elimination of the old hardback = generic/companion = world specific rule.

Yeah, those books always had things in them that could make a class or play style really shine(until nerfed in a reprint).

NewXToa wrote:

Sir_Andrew wrote:

does the stargazer just get proficiency in star knives? or does it get so special abilities with them as well?

The Star Watcher archetype also gets access to two investigator talents that work with starknifes.

Ok, this has now become the first thing I'm checking out when I get this book.

They basically let you use your melee-only Investigator abilities when throwing your starknife.

I'm fairly certain we will get new foci as more supplements come out. Which reminds me the new animal foci in this book for the shifter, does the Hunter get access to them? Would be easy enough to adapt them for the hunter if not?

The Shifter's Minor Forms seem to be about the same power level as (and at least in a few cases directly copy/pasted from) the Hunter's Animal Focus.

BigNorseWolf wrote:

The Sideromancer wrote:

What does the natural philosopher do?

Declare things that they like natural law and thus right?

Wait tables until a tenure-track teaching position opens up?

This hurt my soul.

Also, bard/skald archetypes? Any cool news there?

Verzen wrote:

Mark. I have a shifter guide almost done. When can i publish it?

I'm looking forward to it, hopefully some aspects of the Shifter are worthwhile.

I'm looking forward to this too. Despite not being able to keep up with mine, I love guides a lot.

Mikko Kallio: Almost everything you listed I really liked! Keep up the good work! *two thumbs up* :)

Skald: Bacchanal [alcoholic goodberry eater...], boaster [endurance and diehard type feats], hunt caller [animal senses and form songs]

Bard: filgih [divine casting, druid armor, nature songs], cultivator [plant spells, affect plants with performances, plant growth song, some druid abilities], thundercaller [sound burst song, rage song, call lightning song, call lightning storm song]

Skald: Bacchanal [alcoholic goodberry eater...]

What, normal booze isn't good enough for them? Do grapes offend your refined palate, Mr. "I only eat sustainably-harvested microgrow berries"? Buncha elven snobs... :)

hunt caller [animal senses and form songs]

They... sing wild shape at people? Am I reading that right?

Bard: filgih [divine casting, druid armor, nature songs]

Do they use the Druid spell list?

thundercaller [sound burst song, rage song, call lightning song, call lightning storm song]

Any real difference from the original version?

Bacchanal can have regular booze too, don’t worry. (They’re also good at chugging potions.)

graystone wrote:

Bard: filgih [divine casting, druid armor, nature songs]

Do they use the Druid spell list?

Nope! They still cast spells as a bard, using the bard spell list. It just changes arcane to divine.

That's kind of weird. Do any Druid or Ranger spells get added to the list?