Spring Errata Updates 2025

Woo! Elemental Barbarian doesn't lock you out of all your impulses. That's made me sad for a while, so thanks for the correction. It's finally tiime to make my big hulk of metal barbarian.

Good to know the champion runes work the same way they use to.
Kinda light on updates considering all the suggestions.

My Envy Runelord is sad, there's no other reason to use a level 3 staff besides its charges, since an Envy Runelord can't use any of the spells on the staves.

>Page 115: The curriculum spells for the school of Thassilonian rune magic list a spell of an incorrect rank. Under 8th rank, replace “seize soul*” with “hidden mind”.

Might want to make this one clearer to make sure that Seize Soul is still on the 9th Rank slot.
Edit: Oh, just realized how Curriculums are formatted, Seize Soul is just removed entirely.

Wooo! Errata day, time to take notes. So far I like the champion buffs and jump changes, though I'm sad that the RoE errata fixed the Gennayn but not the Air Scamp paying for Flight twice with elemental mobility.

Also the Runelord changes to not double staff charges is kinda sad, it was an interesting gimmick to get all those charges in exchange for anathema to miscast. But maybe it was too good and made Staff thesis irrelevant.

For consistency’s sake I would have preferred that they just restore the Champion’s wording to how it was and how Battle Harbinger currently has it, but it’s functionally identical now so I’m happy and thankful.

Kinda surprised there weren’t more errata given how beefy the giant suggestion thread was/is, but I really like all the changes that got made this round. Thanks again Paizo!

The failure to errata Exemplar Dedication is very concerning. Rarity should not equate to power, and unconsitional +2 damage/weapon die should not exist as a feat.

Most of the other changes are fine, although the Runelord change is a bit sad. Even relatively permissive readings of the anathema like the one encouraged in the PFS Sanctioning force you to give up a lot. Ah well. Hopefully this also puts to bed the argument that A Runelord needs to merge a staff with their polearm if they want to be able to sacrifice a spell slot for more charges, at least.

Happy that Elemental Barbarians with the Kineticist dedication can now use impulses without raging.

I'm pretty disappointed to see almost nothing from the Errata suggestions thread got addressed other than the Champ runes, which probably isn't even because of that thread since it got a thread of its own and was also widely discussed elsewhere. Obviously no one expected even a quarter of what was brought up there to be addressed, but almost nothing is just sad and calls into question if Paizo rules staff were even aware of its existence.

To be clear, that thread was created at the request and suggestion of a Paizo staff member to create a centralized place for the rules team to review community concerns regarding confusing, contradictory, and or egregiously unbalanced content. Paizo literally asked people to do it. The thought that all of it might have gone ignored despite bringing up many issues more pressing than almost anything touched today is just... kind of depressing honestly.

I like that Grandeur Champion got a look at, although I'm not sure how much that particular errata actually does? Changing it from one round to "until the end of your next turn" only makes it so that it ends at the end of your turn, rather than the start, so it's basically just as short as it was before the errata.

Shouldn't it be until the end of their next turn, to match the redeemer?

Paizo, I love you, but come on now. Nerfing the Vindicator? I got one in my campaign who is considering swapping characters because the subclass is just so underwhelming. They need something more, not less.

Thank you for the clarifications for the Champion.

Hm. The duration now seems to be still only until the end of your own round, which practically makes only a minor difference to the wording from before. Basically, the only difference is that an invisible enemy is revealed to you during your turn and then the effect ends. Nobody else but the Champion (and very circumstantially at that) is receiving any practical benefit from this change, as it is worded now. Are you sure the effect is not intended to last for a full round, i.e. "Until the end of the opponents next turn" or something of the like?

Maybe this could be quickly clarified by a developer, since we at this point should have your immediate attention.

*edit* Whoops, KalisG said pretty much the same thing. But, yeah, the duration change was almost nothing and should be until the start or end of the opponents next turn, if the duration is intended to be improved, as the errata entry suggests it should.

Well, I guess if there was ever any doubt it was a mistake, this errata cements it as truth and intentional.
Rogues now are truly the only class in the game with "Evasion" effects on all of its Saving Throws AND it's the only class in the game to get Evasion when it becomes Expert.

I'm pretty disappointed to see almost nothing from the Errata suggestions thread got addressed other than the Champ runes, which probably isn't even because of that thread since it got a thread of its own and was also widely discussed elsewhere. Obviously no one expected even a quarter of what was brought up there to be addressed, but almost nothing is just sad and calls into question if Paizo rules staff were even aware of its existence.

To be clear, that thread was created at the request and suggestion of a Paizo staff member to create a centralized place for the rules team to review community concerns regarding confusing, contradictory, and or egregiously unbalanced content. Paizo literally asked people to do it. The thought that all of it might have gone ignored despite bringing up many issues more pressing than almost anything touched today is just... kind of depressing honestly.

Seconding this; the changes here otherwise feel kinda underwhelming. I seriously expected more for both of the Player Cores especially, and more stuff relating to game balance/QoL.

The fact that Exemplar Dedication wasn't even mentioned is probably the biggest disappointment.

Yeah, I'm not sure exactly how to feel about this errata given that so many things were left unaddressed.

I'm also disappointed Mythic was left completely untouched despite many voiced concerns about it. Looks like the upcoming Mythic APs will be going into it without any changes even though it doesn't properly work for multiple classes.

I'm pretty disappointed to see almost nothing from the Errata suggestions thread got addressed other than the Champ runes, which probably isn't even because of that thread since it got a thread of its own and was also widely discussed elsewhere. Obviously no one expected even a quarter of what was brought up there to be addressed, but almost nothing is just sad and calls into question if Paizo rules staff were even aware of its existence.

To be clear, that thread was created at the request and suggestion of a Paizo staff member to create a centralized place for the rules team to review community concerns regarding confusing, contradictory, and or egregiously unbalanced content. Paizo literally asked people to do it. The thought that all of it might have gone ignored despite bringing up many issues more pressing than almost anything touched today is just... kind of depressing honestly.

If I had to guess, they will use the thread for the next erratic. They probably need time to compile all the data from it to figure out what they want to change.

I could fill a page with only Alchemist errata that's rather sorely needed, and I must agree that for a "once per season" set of errata like this, I'm genuinely surprised at how few issues were fixed.

I think it's fair to say that the impression was given that errata would come delayed, but the output of it would "keep up" with the speed of incoming issues. It's now clear that this is absolutely not going to happen, and only a small fraction of issues that are published will ever be fixed. Yikes, This creates some serious bad incentives for players to raise hell to be the one to get that rare patch, like with the Champion's Blessed Armament errata.

Beyond the small quantity, the choice and selection of which changes to make, and which were neglected, is rather eye-opening. Rather noteworthy that Rage of Elements could get such a big block of text changed with the troop stuff. Meanwhile, other outstanding issues are left as-is.

In totality, this leads me to guess that the number of Paizo staff with the authority to make errata edits may be even fewer than I had initially presumed.

Flash of Grandeur clarification also means Delay Consequence is also kinda worse. People in all the circles I knew tended to recognize the ruling of rounds for spells on other creatures’ turns as lasting until the start of that creature’s turn as well, because it generally didn’t make sense for only that spell to use the “round” wording as a reaction, while everything else uses “until the start of your next turn” to be be more clear.

Why the Runelord nerf? That is like the one single Wizard Sub-class I was looking forward to seeing as I rarely buy Starves but without them combining charges it still means i won't buy one period.

Also where is the Kineticist changes to make it work with Mythic Rules? Did I miss something here...?

Page 91: Flash of Grandeur’s duration could be far too short in many situations. Change the final sentence to “Until the end of your next turn, the attacker is affected by revealing light.”

That corrects one effect.

But it doesn't address all of the other effects that are used as a reaction and have a duration of 1 round. Such as Delay Consequences.

Well, I guess if there was ever any doubt it was a mistake, this errata cements it as truth and intentional.

Rogues now are truly the only class in the game with "Evasion" effects on all of its Saving Throws AND it's the only class in the game to get Evasion when it becomes Expert.

Well, kinda.

But by the same logic that would mean that Minions are supposed to not have a defined length of time that they follow directions for when not in combat. And I refuse to believe that. It causes too much variation in how useful (or how much of a liability) Animal Companions and Familiars are during exploration mode.

Page 89 (Clarification): The rune granted by a champion’s blessed armament doesn’t count toward the weapon’s number of property runes. Unlike many similar abilities, it can be used even if the weapon already has its maximum number of property runes.

Excellent. Thank you!

Saw into the future while checking out the faqs & errata page:

Guns & Gears Remaster Errata (Winter 2025, Remaster Compatibility)

Pretty sure we haven’t reached Winter 2025 yet…

Lightning Raven wrote:

Well, I guess if there was ever any doubt it was a mistake, this errata cements it as truth and intentional.

Rogues now are truly the only class in the game with "Evasion" effects on all of its Saving Throws AND it's the only class in the game to get Evasion when it becomes Expert.

Well, kinda.

But by the same logic that would mean that Minions are supposed to not have a defined length of time that they follow directions for when not in combat. And I refuse to believe that. It causes too much variation in how useful (or how much of a liability) Animal Companions and Familiars are during exploration mode.

The difference is that the minion thing is a grey area that only rule sticklers will create problems. Table variance will always, always be a thing. I do get where you're coming from, though.

The Rogue thing is outright egregious. So much so that everyone's first thought is "this must be wrong", because it breaks all the rules of character design PF2e so far, it goes against the overall design niche of the Rogue and it outright makes it even more of a favorite child than it was before the remaster.

To me, whether it's a mistake or intentional, Rogues simply shouldn't have this kind of buff. Some people might disagree, that's fine. However, this change will NEVER fly on my table.

Yeah I don't like this Runelord change at all. This is very close to not having an Arcane Thesis. Your staff isn't any better than anyone else's, it's just free with an unusual list. Staff spell lists already struggle to justify themselves with the heightening issues. I guess all that justifies the Runelord is getting a better focus spell on your wizard now? The thesis is obviously strictly worse than Staff Nexus now, and if it's not as good as Staff Nexus it definitely isn't as good as Spell Blending/Substitution.

Saw into the future while checking out the faqs & errata page:

Guns & Gears Remaster Errata (Winter 2025, Remaster Compatibility)

Pretty sure we haven’t reached Winter 2025 yet…

February 2025 is in winter and in 2025.

Yeah I don't like this Runelord change at all. This is very close to not having an Arcane Thesis. Your staff isn't any better than anyone else's, it's just free with an unusual list. Staff spell lists already struggle to justify themselves with the heightening issues. I guess all that justifies the Runelord is getting a better focus spell on your wizard now? The thesis is obviously strictly worse than Staff Nexus now, and if it's not as good as Staff Nexus it definitely isn't as good as Spell Blending/Substitution.

The Runelord's staff always contains their highest rank sin spells. Unless your GM is dropping treasure well above your level, a staff that can cast spells of your top rank is almost unheard of. It's basically an extra top rank slot if your Sin spells are good (Caveat: Not every sin has good spells at all ranks).

Well, I guess if there was ever any doubt it was a mistake, this errata cements it as truth and intentional.

Rogues now are truly the only class in the game with "Evasion" effects on all of its Saving Throws AND it's the only class in the game to get Evasion when it becomes Expert.

There was no doubt. They confirmed just a few days after the *last* round of errata that this was intentional. By now this is extremely old news.

Hopefully they make the Fireworks Technician functional in the summer.

Moth Mariner wrote:

Saw into the future while checking out the faqs & errata page:

Guns & Gears Remaster Errata (Winter 2025, Remaster Compatibility)

Pretty sure we haven’t reached Winter 2025 yet…

February 2025 is in winter and in 2025.

Winter starts in June. The use of seasonal marketing is actually rather ridiculous.

Oh great, 6 days before I finally start playing a Runelord, the archetype's most amazing feature gets removed. Yay?

What remains is

- a free staff that's very much hit or miss depending on your level and sin.
- a very limited form of spell substitution.
- limited martial weapon proficiency (worth less than half a general feat).
- on average better focus spells.
- a few decent, but mostly not outstanding, feats.

If the feats and focus spells of the baseline wizard were actually good, the errata'd Runelord wouldn't really bring anything useful to the table.

I'm not convinced this is worth the anathema anymore. I was perfectly willing to play each and every Sin previously, but with that blow to the Runelord's power, I don't think I could stomach playing some of the weaker Sins.

Oh great, 6 days before I finally start playing a Runelord, the archetype's most amazing feature gets removed. Yay?

What remains is

- a free staff that's very much hit or miss depending on your level and sin.
- a very limited form of spell substitution.
- limited martial weapon proficiency (worth less than half a general feat).
- on average better focus spells.
- a few decent, but mostly not outstanding, feats.

If the feats and focus spells of the baseline wizard were actually good, the errata'd Runelord wouldn't really bring anything useful to the table.

I'm not convinced this is worth the anathema anymore. I was perfectly willing to play each and every Sin previously, but with that blow to the Runelord's power, I don't think I could stomach playing some of the weaker Sins.

I never liked the entire concept. Wizards and sins don't mesh at all.

The fact that Exemplar Dedication wasn't even mentioned is probably the biggest disappointment.

The balance of the game is slowly slipping. Established design principles are being ignored.

I never liked the entire concept. Wizards and sins don't mesh at all.

Well, that's mostly a flavor concern and up to each player to decide.

But mechanically, the wizard is already bland and the pre-errata Runelord was the first thing in over five years that got me actually excited to play one. Far less so post-errata, unfortunately.

It's probably too late to switch my character (or at least his class) for our new campaign starting this sunday. But if the errata happened two weeks ago, I would seriously have considered dropping the Runelord archetype - and maybe even the wizard class entirely. That's just sad.

I never liked the entire concept. Wizards and sins don't mesh at all.

I'd say they could have them, getting power from them is a bit jarring (even though unconventional and so a bit interesting), but the list being the copy from a real-world religion is utter absurd for a fantasy world, repulsive and an exceptionally bad move.

It's probably too late to switch my character (or at least his class) for our new campaign starting this sunday. But if the errata happened two weeks ago, I would seriously have considered dropping the Runelord archetype - and maybe even the wizard class entirely.

I don't know your table, character concept and situation, but why not? Taking another caster, making some background adjustments shouldn't be too hard I suppose?

Yup for some reason they just like to keep Wizards down in the mud and dirt. Anathema is not worth getting your spell choices limited for a single extra spell slot of your highest rank, yay the adventuring day is slightly longer as a Runelord! Even then you really need to know what SIN you are playing. Gluttony and Wrath are both top tier, unfortunate that the rest of them fall behind even more with the nerf to Staff and Charges. Sorry Enny, Greed and Pride you all be officially retired not even 2 months in. Gluttony, Lust and Wrath you guys got upgrade to being the only SINS with practical uses!

And yet Rogues have Evasion on all 3 saving throws and Runelords get the nerf. Official or not this balancing pass is making less and less sense the longer you read them. Okay so Anathema is enough to give the Runelord...A limited Spell Subsitution, a Free Staff amd Useless Polearm proficiency? So my base Thesis is the free staff right? The other two are minor buffs for having ENTIRE groups of magic spells cut off right? Not being able to cast Fireball/Lightning Bolt/Chain Lightning as an Envy Sin Runelord is super dangerous, nor can as a Envy Runelord cast any Vampiric Spelsl because they are Void.

Where is the balance here? Everyone knows if your enemy is dead they can't hurt you any more and which makes the offensive SINS powerful.

I don't know your table, character concept and situation, but why not? Taking another caster, making some background adjustments shouldn't be too hard I suppose?

Being a wizard is a very substantial part of this character. If I just change the class, I might as well build another character altogether.

Witch would be the only thing that might also be a good fit, but we already got one. And I want to be an arcane caster and I'm not touching the Inscribed One with a reach spellshape Telekinetic Hand heightened to rank 5 (which is the caster equivalent of a 10 ft pole).

I also kind of want to play this character for RP reasons. I just have to decide whether to stick with Greed Runelord or go back to the original (pre-Rival Academies) plan of being a universalist.

Being a wizard is a very substantial part of this character. ... I just have to decide whether to stick with Greed Runelord or go back to the original (pre-Rival Academies) plan of being a universalist.

Ah, ok. Great! If that's the concept I guess not much can be done. I thought of a witch that pretends to be a wizard, but you have witch. And I guess a studious sorc (like Imperial one) or other class won't do if you really-really want them to be a wizard...

What a poor change to Runelords.

Bad job Paizo, bad job.

Errenor wrote:

I don't know your table, character concept and situation, but why not? Taking another caster, making some background adjustments shouldn't be too hard I suppose?

Being a wizard is a very substantial part of this character. If I just change the class, I might as well build another character altogether.

Witch would be the only thing that might also be a good fit, but we already got one. And I want to be an arcane caster and I'm not touching the Inscribed One with a reach spellshape Telekinetic Hand heightened to rank 5 (which is the caster equivalent of a 10 ft pole).

I also kind of want to play this character for RP reasons. I just have to decide whether to stick with Greed Runelord or go back to the original (pre-Rival Academies) plan of being a universalist.

Doesn't sound like your playing PFS. So why not just ask your GM's permission to play the pre-errata remaster version. Worst case you need to track your own staff charges resource count beyond whatever software you're using if they update the archetype with the errata.

Farien wrote:

Well, kinda.

But by the same logic that would mean that Minions are supposed to not have a defined length of time that they follow directions for when not in combat. And I refuse to believe that. It causes too much variation in how useful (or how much of a liability) Animal Companions and Familiars are during exploration mode.

The difference is that the minion thing is a grey area that only rule sticklers will create problems.

Well, let's pretend I'm not a rule stickler (absurd, I know). How should I rule to not create a problem? I have basically nothing to rely on. Only allow unlimited exploration use for familiars? Isn't it a problem itself?

The balance of the game is slowly slipping.

Eh, slipping implies a change. Underwhelming errata that ignores key issues and makes unhelpful changes to things that weren't a problem have been on brand for Paizo for a long time.

The only real new thing here is that a few policy statements gave people some false hope.

Don't get me wrong super disappointing but not what I'd call a big shift per se.

I never liked the entire concept. Wizards and sins don't mesh at all.

It's been a part of the setting since the first Pathfinder AP. At this point, a Runelord archetype that doesn't involve sin magic in some way wouldn't fit the game.

If you don't like the concept, that's cool, but that's what the Runelords always were.

Well, I guess if there was ever any doubt it was a mistake, this errata cements it as truth and intentional.

Rogues now are truly the only class in the game with "Evasion" effects on all of its Saving Throws AND it's the only class in the game to get Evasion when it becomes Expert.

This one has been fully confirmed to be intentional:

Yup....Somehow it is intentional and makes Rogues insane. Yet they need to nerf Wizards.... But I am just repeating myself. It is absurd to thing Rogues get this much extra power budget, which is insane. They already hit with greatsword level damage did they need more stuff with their high skill training?

I maintain there's a rogue main who holds dirt on various members of the Paizo staff and leverages that for increased power budget and favorable erattas.

Gortle wrote:

I never liked the entire concept. Wizards and sins don't mesh at all.

It's been a part of the setting since the first Pathfinder AP. At this point, a Runelord archetype that doesn't involve sin magic in some way wouldn't fit the game.

If you don't like the concept, that's cool, but that's what the Runelords always were.

repeating 'never'

Where is the balance here?

Given the lack of Oracle updates and the mess that is mystery balance... this tracks, unfortunately. It just doesn't feel like they are eager to fix subclass balance problems.

And that's a class from a core book, rather than a Lost Omens book archetype. So I'm not feeling confident Runelord is going to get that kind of adjustment to the sins that fall behind.

Maybe it'll happen in the fall, but I'm not feeling very confident... especially since there will be a mythic AP coming out and mythic itself has some major issues that will cause problems trying to play that if they're left unaddressed.

They're still putting out interesting new stuff, but it doesn't feel like balance is something they're as focused on as they used to be.

They're still putting out interesting new stuff, but it doesn't feel like balance is something they're as focused on as they used to be.

Real shame that, given balance was touted as a major selling point of the edition.

Subclassing balance has always been terrible tbh, never understood why.

Real shame that, given balance was touted as a major selling point of the edition.

I mean even the CRB had broken subclasses and wild variation between classes. Balance has always been more of a community idea, tbh.