Save the Date for a New Pathfinder Class Playtest!

Hope we get that evolutionary class that was mentioned by the designers in another flood. A class all about adapting your body seems super cool and novel to me

Hope we get that evolutionary class that was mentioned by the designers in another flood. A class all about adapting your body seems super cool and novel to me

Didn’t this class just come out with this name in Starfinder?

How about a book about Politics, Trade, and Thievery? Expand upon Rogues as Spys and Merchant types. I only think of that because there's not much on Aspis Consortium, but they're mentioned all the time. Even if it's not, that would still be fun for a future tome.

Yeah. I am thinking magic, combat, and skills are three legs of most characters/parties. Since we have Secrets of Magic, and Gunslingers (combat) already, a skill based book is a good guess. Rogues and bards, occult skill unlocks, Ultimate Intrigue sort of stuff. I expect we will see one class recreated and something almost entirely new (I am considering summoners as 'new' since they were built, and rebuilt and still broken or at least despised.)

Kineticist is a guess for rebuild (IMHO most unique class remaining) though I do not see them as highly skilled base. Occultist could be a skilled build (unlocking better powers through practice & study of a item). Since every class can be a spy a new unique 'Spy' class would be cool.

Wild speculation on my part but an epi-game centered theme would be cool. A class to represent teams, or a vehicle/pilot class, or collect these magic-item sets.

UnfitParrot wrote:

Hope we get that evolutionary class that was mentioned by the designers in another flood. A class all about adapting your body seems super cool and novel to me

Didn’t this class just come out with this name in Starfinder?

They’re currently doing the Playtest for it in Starfinder yes.

Inquisitor could be a skilled class? I’m seeing them as a midpoint between an Investigator and a Divine wave-caster.

A thought. They talked about redoing Shamans to be closer to their actual historical context and I see that as covering a lot of animism. Animism and the Occultist have a lot of overlap. Maybe the Occultist gets folded into the Shaman for a flexible tradition caster. We can have relics for divine casting, too.

Eggregious Fowle wrote:

How about a book about Politics, Trade, and Thievery? Expand upon Rogues as Spys and Merchant types. I only think of that because there's not much on Aspis Consortium, but they're mentioned all the time. Even if it's not, that would still be fun for a future tome.

Yeah. I am thinking magic, combat, and skills are three legs of most characters/parties. Since we have Secrets of Magic, and Gunslingers (combat) already it is likely a skill based book. Rogues and bards, occult skill unlocks, Ultimate Intrigue sort of stuff. I expect we will see one class recreated and something almost entirely new (I am considering summoners as 'new' since they were built, and rebuilt and still broken or at least despised.)

Kineticist is a guess for rebuild (IMHO most unique class remaining) though I do not see them as highly skilled base. Occultist could be a skilled build (unlocking better powers through practice & study of a item). Since every class can be a spy a new 'spy' class would be cool.

Guns and Gears is 2E Ultimate Equipment. Next book could be an Ultimate Intrigue for the skill monkeys but we're definitely still missing our dedicated martial mastery book.

Curaigh wrote:

Eggregious Fowle wrote:

How about a book about Politics, Trade, and Thievery? Expand upon Rogues as Spys and Merchant types. I only think of that because there's not much on Aspis Consortium, but they're mentioned all the time. Even if it's not, that would still be fun for a future tome.

Guns and Gears is 2E Ultimate Equipment. Next book could be an Ultimate Intrigue for the skill monkeys but we're definitely still missing our dedicated martial mastery book.

Since gunslinger was in Ultimate Combat I made that connection to Guns & Gears, but I agree it is tenuous at best.

For a martial book, I think that a class that resembles the DnD 4e warlord, 13th Age commander and PF2's own marshal archetype is a strong contender for a new class, a nonmagical support and tactician - not sure what the other one could be, but my brain keeps circling back to the brawler, as a purely mundane unarmed and unarmored badass), a midpoint between the fighter, monk, and the martial artist (and maybe even the weapon improviser) archetype.

Add in tons of options for other martial classes, new weapons, armor and other 'low-tech' toys, and maybe a mass combat subsystem to wrap it together, and that's a strong pitch for a book.

The Monk is already a purely mundane unarmed and unarmored badass, all of the class's magical techniques must be opted into. If we were to redo the Brawler I'd want it to be all about reimagining Martial Flexibility. Maybe have its main thing be selecting of suite of martial classes that it can pick from when spontaneously flexing into class feats.

would love the inquisitor or something like a ninja or samurai class. I would like a skill focused book for rogue & such. wish this playtest was rules and not class focused I want mythic in pathfinder 2e

So far, these playtests have fit a mold: two classes for a themed book. The book on magic gave us Magus and Summoner, while a book on tech gave us Gunslinger and Inventor. I have to assume this pattern will hold true, so let’s let that shape the theorycrafting!

-Occult book with Occultist and Psychic. Occult magic feels like the least-loved of the four traditions so far in terms of player options, and I think these are guaranteed to be pretty popular.
-Nature/primal book with Kineticist and Shifter. It seems like everyone wants Kineticist back, and the Shifter deserves a second shot at life. This book could also have wilderness exploration rules in it.
-Divine book with Inquisitor and either a retooled Medium or a new class. This is the pitch I’m least clear on, but I dearly want Inquisitor back.
-Martial book with Warlord/Marshal/Commander and probably something else new? There’s a lot of demand for a Warlord-style class, and martials always love having more options. This could be a place for mass combat rules as well.

I also do think there’s a slim chance it’s a genre book, rather than a setting element, because I can see a horror supplement with Inquisitor (for monster-hunting) and Occultist (for delving into terrible secrets) as the new classes.

You summed up my thoughts perfectly, so I'll just re-post yours here and add a +1.

I'd be happy with any of these, and probably in the order listed. I will say that I'd really like to see a dedicated Shifter class, one that leans on the Wild Shape Druid order for inspiration. I feel like that particular Druid Order leaves a lot to be desired, and the depths of Wild Shaping and Shifting could best be explored in a dedicated class.

There are two classes that I'd like to see. Names and how they exactly come out I don't really care about but I would like to see these two mechanical concepts fleshed out.

1. A physical skill class. The rogue is the jack of all trades skill class and the Investigator is the skill class that focuses on mental skills so it would be cool to get a skill class that focuses on the physical skills. Probably have some options for movement speeds and maybe doing it's version of sneak attack when it trips or shoves or what ever. So focusing a bit more on mobility and control. Kind of like monks, I guess, but a bit more skill focused.

2. A skill-caster hybrid class. We have skill-martial hybrid in the swashbuckler and martial-caster in the summoner and magus. So the next logical step is a class that combines skill use, precision damage, and spell casting.

2. A skill-caster hybrid class. We have skill-martial hybrid in the swashbuckler and martial-caster in the summoner and magus. So the next logical step is a class that combines skill use, precision damage, and spell casting.

This is my hope for Inquisitor.

I'll put my gold pieces on whatever Animated paper says! He got it right last time!

I absolutely got lucky, but thank you for the (maniacal) giggle.

We’ve seen shifters pop up recently, as well as mediums. I feel like a mostly combat class that combines those isn’t not an outrageous guess, perhaps with class paths that offer bound spellcasting but the overall class not requiring it.

I also feel like something harrow related feels due. I know many dislike harrow, but it’s a pretty deep part of Golarian lore.

1. A physical skill class. The rogue is the jack of all trades skill class and the Investigator is the skill class that focuses on mental skills so it would be cool to get a skill class that focuses on the physical skills. Probably have some options for movement speeds and maybe doing it's version of sneak attack when it trips or shoves or what ever. So focusing a bit more on mobility and control. Kind of like monks, I guess, but a bit more skill focused.

Be tough to do this without overlapping too hard with swashbucklers, but I’d be willing to listen.

I'm hoping for either the Occultist/Antiquarian, Shifter, or a new class.

There's lots of things they could do with the Occultist. It could be more traditional and be a prepared Occult caster, or we could go a little wider and dig into the idea behind the artifacts/panoplies they collect. It could be a caster that, rather than limited by spell tradition, is instead limited by spell school, pulling from any tradition but only the schools allowed by their panoply. Cap it at master spellcasting so as to make them focus on utility over raw power, and you've got a rather unique support caster.

As for Shifter, it'd finally help Battle Forms feel stronger for players who like them without pushing them to absurd strength when used by casters. Just let the class be more open ended, such as hybridizing battle forms, mixing and matching Morph effects, and grabbing various sorts of special abilities. Could have options such as a specialist who has a single, powerful alternate form or just a more generalized shapeshifter.

And for a new class, it'd be neat to have a Commander/Warlord class which focuses on the action economy of the system, though I'm not sure it really deserves its own class as opposed to an archetype that could be bolted onto Fighters and Paladins.

Something that just occurred to me that would be a cool class concept for a skill type with shades of Rogue/Ninja/Inventor/Investigator/Alchemist, might be a Saboteur-type class. Now that we are getting tech-based classes in G&G, a Saboteur class could be a good stealthy anti-crafter and de-buffer with precision damage against weapons/armor/items and good ability at doing disarm attacks, setting up traps during combat, and maybe even have a subclass/path/build that uses some rune/sigil-based magic as an anti-spellcaster (spelleater) with some affinity for talismans and curses while another could be better with alchemical items and poisons as a saboteur.

At the number of playtest is see, there should be a reward more substancial than just helping, (Like extra ACP or something.)

At the number of playtest is see, there should be a reward more substancial than just helping, (Like extra ACP or something.)

I believe that reward is “getting two new classes months early for free.”

I'm crossing my fingers now for Solarion.

Antiquarian, Inquisitor, and Shaman are my hopes. Kineticist and Shifter would be welcome too, but I think those two will probably come later in a book together.

If we got any of those five though I'd be over the moon.

I also do think there’s a slim chance it’s a genre book, rather than a setting element, because I can see a horror supplement with Inquisitor (for monster-hunting) and Occultist (for delving into terrible secrets) as the new classes.

While everyone else is clamoring for another themed book, I still have high hopes that we will finally see a comprehensive source book for the Tian Xi region, complete with a 2E archetype for the Kensai, Samurai, Ninja, and Wujen. The success of the Mwangi Expanse hardcover further bolstered that hope. I doubt this is going to be that book though.

I'm crossing my fingers now for Solarion.

I know it’ll never happen and I want it very badly.

Here are my thoughts on what we're missing from the 1e classes and what gaps could still be filled....

Classes Completed: Alchemist, Barbarian, Bard, Champion(Paladin), Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Monk, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Wizard, Investigator, Oracle, Swashbuckler, Witch, Magus, Summoner,Gunslinger & Inventor.

1E Classes Demoted: Cavalier(Archetype), Warpriest(Cleric Doctrine), Vigilante(Archetype), Arcanist(Flexible Spell Preparation Archetype) referenced in text & Spiritualist(Summoner with Occult Eidolon).

Remaining Classes: Inquisitor, Shifter, Bloodrager, Skald, Brawler, Hunter, Shaman, Slayer, Kineticist, Medium, Mesmerist, Occultist & Psychic.

Known Open Class Positions: Dedicated Prepared Occult Caster, Dedicated Spontaneous Primal Caster, & Dedicated Spontaneous Arcane Caster.

Here's my current theory....

Inquisitor: Cleric Dedication
Shifter:?
Bloodrager:Insufficient in light of Multiclassing options.
Skald:Warrior Muse Bard, not yet confirmed.
Brawler:Insufficient in light of Multiclassing options.
Hunter:Insufficient in light of Multiclassing options.
Shaman:Dedicated Spontaneous Primal Caster
Slayer:Rogue Racket if not already possible.
Kineticist:Confirmed in works but not ready for playtest yet(?)
Medium:Too Complicated to make at this time, Needs major overhaul to work.
Mesmerist:Spontaneous Occult Caster Anti-bard with Stare Cantrip and Spell Point Powers.
Occultist:Dedicated Prepared Occult Caster.
Psychic:Occult Sorcerer Bloodline.

So as of now until we know the theme of the upcoming book, we don't know.

I just keep looking at the number of classes 5e has after 6+ years and I'm flabbergasted by the 20 whole mechanically unique classes this system will have after 3 years.

Ooo

Lechteron wrote:

1. A physical skill class. The rogue is the jack of all trades skill class and the Investigator is the skill class that focuses on mental skills so it would be cool to get a skill class that focuses on the physical skills. Probably have some options for movement speeds and maybe doing it's version of sneak attack when it trips or shoves or what ever. So focusing a bit more on mobility and control. Kind of like monks, I guess, but a bit more skill focused.

Be tough to do this without overlapping too hard with swashbucklers, but I’d be willing to listen.

One thing I was thinking was that of course they wouldn't have finishers and their weapon progression would probably be similar to rogues but maybe the way they get their precision damage is through a combo system. So like you could have a grappler sub-class for them that gets Titan Wrestler for free and can add the Grab trait onto their unarmed strikes so they can punch someone, spend an action to grab using their previous attack roll, and then spend another action to apply a small amount of precision damage. That would be like the basic and safe option. But they could apply a more advanced action to grab after the strike thus incurring MAP but it gets the precision damage and other effects but it's less reliable. From there they could then apply a submission move (being at full MAP) that would have a really big payout if it succeeds but provides a penalty of some kind on crit failure which is likely since you have to have grappled that turn. It would certainly have to be tweaked some so it's not too powerful or too weak or so that Assurance doesn't become broken but the idea would be using safe, weaker options vs. pressing your luck for massive takedowns as opposed to the Swashbucklers style of showing off once and then getting a little extra until they cash it in for one big hit (which is more often than not the super safe still do some damage on a miss one anyway).

For the wrestler form you could also have a lariat feat that acts similarly to Sudden Charge but with a trip attempt. Or a luchadore feat that lets you use acrobatics for grab attempts.

You could also do a trip or shove focused sub-class or one that focuses on acrobatics. Maybe one that uses a rope as a weapon to lasso enemies in combat (or maybe have that as a feat). Or a dancer one that uses performance for stuff. All in the press your luck for potentially devastating attacks sort of style.

Known Open Class Positions: Dedicated Prepared Occult Caster, Dedicated Spontaneous Primal Caster, & Dedicated Spontaneous Arcane Caster.

As info, the developers have stated that they don't think like this. They don't have a matrix of tradition/style combos to fill out, they come up with an idea and then figure out what kind of class best represents that.

That said, I sort of hope we see some of these become archetypes that don't require the same ability score restrictions that the current multiclass archetypes have. In particular, the old vigilante caster archetypes might be useful to be brought forward in this way. The cabalist could make a great prepared occult arcehtype, the warlock spontaneous primal, and magical child spontaneous arcane.

Dustin Knight wrote:

I'm crossing my fingers now for Solarion.

I know it’ll never happen and I want it very badly.

If they ever do that "Starfinder, but in PF2" high sci fi book some of us want, the Solarian and Vanguard seem the most likely to be converted wholesale, while the others could be class archetypes or class paths.

basking in the momentary glory of a Biohacker Alchemist research field.

Hoping for occultist or medium. Would also like mesmerist, but as the 2e bard is an occult caster, would probably work with mesmerism as a muse.

Hmm

keftiu wrote:

Dustin Knight wrote:

I'm crossing my fingers now for Solarion.

I know it’ll never happen and I want it very badly.

If they ever do that "Starfinder, but in PF2" high sci fi book some of us want, the Solarian and Vanguard seem the most likely to be converted wholesale, while the others could be class archetypes or class paths.

basking in the momentary glory of a Biohacker Alchemist research field.

This really feels like something in the realm of third-party publishers. But, oooh, would it be fun to try playing!

As much as I'd like to see the Occultist (and I mean something actually resembling the occultist, not a weird mishmash of medium and shaman like some people have suggessted). I'd really like to see something just kind of out of left field. Those are fun.

With the number of times the world Occultist was used in SoM, that’s my guess. Hopefully them and a new class, although it could be them and Medium as it was also mentioned at least once in SoM IIRC

With the number of times the world Occultist was used in SoM, that’s my guess. Hopefully them and a new class, although it could be them and Medium as it was also mentioned at least once in SoM IIRC

Yes, there was this line from page 10 of SoM: "As I have seen time and again, while amongst the Oracles and Mediums of Nethys, there are as many varied traditions as any other school of worship."

Also, there is the False Medium Background introduced in SoM that has flavor text that describes how those with this background might use Occultism to swindle folks and implies they might even possibly still perform seances between adventures to earn income.

Give me either the Occultist or the Kineticist and I'm a happy vegetable.

Though I didn't like that much the investigator class ( either as a DM and as a Player ), I really appreciated his methodologies.

Especially the alchemist one.

They tried something similar with the witch class I guess ( Cauldron + Temporary potions ) though it was not alchemy, and its effects was not so good given the low number of potions/oils and the lvl -6 requirements.

Anyway, I think that some sort of wavecasting for alchemy could really be interesting on a combatant ( not a skill monkey this time ).

Also, I still continue my own crusade that having a class which entirely works around a shifting rune would be extremely fun ( Attacks which shift the weapon after the strike, enhancing version of the shifting rune and a little from the inventor class, in terms of gadgets ).

I still believe its too soon for Medium, Kineticist, Occultist, and maybe even Mesmerist (this one on account of politics).

Honestly, all the occult classes are just too deep to be released without a lot of careful consideration.

Also I really don't want them butchering Kineticist. I am utherly terrified that they will make some random "I shoot elements" that looks more like a discount Vigilante Warlock than an actual Kineticist. So I do have that bias.

keftiu wrote:

I also do think there’s a slim chance it’s a genre book, rather than a setting element, because I can see a horror supplement with Inquisitor (for monster-hunting) and Occultist (for delving into terrible secrets) as the new classes.

While everyone else is clamoring for another themed book, I still have high hopes that we will finally see a comprehensive source book for the Tian Xi region, complete with a 2E archetype for the Kensai, Samurai, Ninja, and Wujen. The success of the Mwangi Expanse hardcover further bolstered that hope. I doubt this is going to be that book though.

Yeah, while I have expectations that will certainly end up as a Lost Omens book at some point in the next couple of years, I would be shocked if these two classes came in a lost omens product.

Honestly, all the occult classes are just too deep to be released without a lot of careful consideration.

What does too deep mean?

I still believe its too soon for Medium, Kineticist, Occultist, and maybe even Mesmerist (this one on account of politics).

Honestly, all the occult classes are just too deep to be released without a lot of careful consideration.

Also I really don't want them butchering Kineticist. I am utherly terrified that they will make some random "I shoot elements" that looks more like a discount Vigilante Warlock than an actual Kineticist. So I do have that bias.

The new elementalist archetype, and the elemental monk stances in Secrets of Magic, feel very kineticist for me. That was the consensus at my local group as well. Maybe it is not utilitarian enough for most of the audience?

I think Inquisitor + Occultist could be a neat combo. I’d say make them bounded spell casters… plus, Divine and Occult could be expanded… fit them in a book on spirits, gods and mystery with additional rules such as being a demigod, having a ghost animal companion, conducting seances and the like. A nice pairing to the Book of the Dead. Throw in another Champion Tenet set and that’s a sell…

Based on what Jason said on the GCP interview, I think the Kineticist is too far away.

Would love a Warlord at some point. There could be a lot of potential for it in addition to what the Marshal already does

What did Jason say on the kineticist in the interview ? Not sure if it is publicly available

Temperans wrote:

I still believe its too soon for Medium, Kineticist, Occultist, and maybe even Mesmerist (this one on account of politics).

Honestly, all the occult classes are just too deep to be released without a lot of careful consideration.

Also I really don't want them butchering Kineticist. I am utherly terrified that they will make some random "I shoot elements" that looks more like a discount Vigilante Warlock than an actual Kineticist. So I do have that bias.

The new elementalist archetype, and the elemental monk stances in Secrets of Magic, feel very kineticist for me. That was the consensus at my local group as well. Maybe it is not utilitarian enough for most of the audience?

This was the view of my group as well. And one even said that apparently paizo said early on that Kineticist would not be in 2E (seemingly at all). But they might have misread or paizo might have rowed back on that if there was a statement as such

I wouldn’t mind shaman as it is clearly what one of my players wants to play and he is currently a Druid using orc war masks . I wonder what it would be paired with though? Not many other nature or primal slots apart from the aforementioned Kineticist that I am close to 100% confident is not going to be a 2022 class.

Temperans wrote:

Honestly, all the occult classes are just too deep to be released without a lot of careful consideration.

What does too deep mean?

They have a lot of options and get a lot for those options.

For example, as it is right now, I can only imagine Occultists getting 1 (maybe 2) implements. While the number of abilities for those implements would be cut in half.

I mean, probably. That seems pretty likely no matter when they get released.

Spell slots and the number of class abilities each class has got pruned back for most classes. I don’t see them breaking that pattern ever. Edit: I also don’t they’ll add a ton of options with sub options that aren’t class feats, simply for lack of page space. The inventor’s innovations are probably about as deep as we’ll see.

Curaigh wrote:

Temperans wrote:

I still believe its too soon for Medium, Kineticist, Occultist, and maybe even Mesmerist (this one on account of politics).

Honestly, all the occult classes are just too deep to be released without a lot of careful consideration.

Also I really don't want them butchering Kineticist. I am utherly terrified that they will make some random "I shoot elements" that looks more like a discount Vigilante Warlock than an actual Kineticist. So I do have that bias.

The new elementalist archetype, and the elemental monk stances in Secrets of Magic, feel very kineticist for me. That was the consensus at my local group as well. Maybe it is not utilitarian enough for most of the audience?

This was the view of my group as well. And one even said that apparently paizo said early on that Kineticist would not be in 2E (seemingly at all). But they might have misread or paizo might have rowed back on that if there was a statement as such

I wouldn’t mind shaman as it is clearly what one of my players wants to play and he is currently a Druid using orc war masks . I wonder what it would be paired with though? Not many other nature or primal slots apart from the aforementioned Kineticist that I am close to 100% confident is not going to be a 2022 class.

I have not seen that archetype or stances yet, only heard about them.

The stances sound similar to mountain stance, giving the monk some passive bonus. Maybe a special reaction or attack.

Haven't heard much about the druid archertype besides "its elemental".

I mean, probably. That seems pretty likely no matter when they get released.

Spell slots and the number of class abilities each class has got pruned back for most classes. I don’t see them breaking that pattern ever.

Yeah, just think those classes need more consideration on what to prune compared to other classes.

Not really. The OA classes were clearly prototypes for 2e classes, and would probably more readily convert to the class feat system. They’re not as smooth as, say, the vigilante, but for the most part I don’t think they’d take more pruning than, say, the witch.

I would like to see the an inquisitor like class (although I would push for a rename to something like Seeker that has less baggage and can open more options in terms of a focus, like seek enemies, seek allies, seek mysteries).

I hope they keep their routine from G&G (or is it GnG?) where they have one new class and one revamped class.

I know shaman was talked about for a bit on getting a remake, so that would be cool.

I would really like to see mesmerist and Occultist as well. Invquisitor likewise could be cool.

After reading this thread I think inquisitor, shaman, shifter and occultist are all valid guesses and I would be happy seeing any of them.