Trinkets and Treasures

Monday, June 25, 2018

Wayfinder. Bag of holding. Ring of the ram. Staff of power. Holy avenger.

The magic items you find during your adventures become a part of your story and let you do things beyond the techniques you've mastered and the spells you know. So how do these essentials of the game work in the Pathfinder Playtest?

Magic items are used in three major ways: by investing them, by activating them, or automatically. Invested items are ones you wear that you have to prepare as you don them, after which they work continuously. Activating items follows a system similar to that used for spells. Just as casting a spell requires you to spend actions to supply the somatic, verbal, and material components of the spell, activated items require you to use the Command Activation, Focus Activation, or Operate Activation action, or a combination of multiple actions. A potion requires you to spend an Operate Activation action to drink it. A necklace of fireballs requires you to spend 2 Operate Activation actions to unbind a bead and throw it. Activating a luck blade to reroll an attack just takes a mental nudge with a Focus Activation reaction (though you get to do that only once per day). Automatic activation happens with a small category of items that give their benefit whenever they're used for their normal purpose. A prime example is a sword with the frost property rune, which is always coated with frost and needs only hit a foe to deal extra cold damage.

Illustration by Wayne Reynolds

Resonance

Activating or investing an item costs 1 Resonance Point (RP). You might have heard a bit about this on the Glass Cannon podcast! Resonance is a new resource all characters have that can be used to activate items. Your innate magic item resonance is represented by a number of Resonance Points equal to your level plus your Charisma modifier. This ties back to the Pathfinder First Edition concept of Charisma as the main ability score tied to innate magic, as seen in the Use Magic Device skill and the fact that Charisma is used for spell-like abilities, oracles, sorcerers, and so forth. However, in Pathfinder Second Edition, true scholars of itemcraft *cough*alchemists*cough* might get to use their Intelligence instead.

The idea of resonance stems from the Pathfinder First Edition occultist, who was able to tap into the magical potential of items, and even before that to the idea of resonance between creatures and various magic items, as seen with the resonant powers of wayfinders. We've expanded that concept to apply to everyone. In practical terms, you're really unlikely to run out of Resonance Points unless you're using an absurd number of items, and you're at the greatest risk at low levels. You still have a chance even if your pool is empty, though. You can overspend Resonance Points! If you're at 0 RP, you can attempt to activate or invest an item anyway. You need to attempt a flat check (a d20 roll with no modifiers) against a DC equal to 10 + the number of points you've overspent today. So the first item has a 50% chance of working, and it gets more risky from there.

We expect Resonance Points to be a contentious topic, and we're really curious to see how it plays at your tables. It's one of the more experimental changes to the game, and the playtest process gives us a chance to see it in the wild before committing to it. Here are the advantages we see from a design perspective:

  1. Using items is clear and consistent. Spend the required actions and 1 RP, and you activate or invest your item. If someone else wants to use the same item, you can remove it and let them put it on and invest it themselves.
  2. You have less to track. We get to remove some of the sub-pools that individual items have (such as "10 rounds per day which need not be consecutive" or "5 charges") because we know you have an overall limited resource. There are still some items that can't be used without limit, but they get to be special exceptions rather than being common out of necessity.
  3. It puts the focus on the strongest items. Because you can't activate items indefinitely, your best bet is to use the most RP-efficient item, not the most gp-efficient item. You want a high-level healing wand because you get more healing for your Resonance Point rather than getting a bunch of low-level wands because they're cheap.
  4. Investiture limits what you can wear. That means we don't need to rely heavily on an item slot system, creating more flexibility in what kind of worn items are useful. You'll read more about this on the blog on Friday, when we talk about removing the magic item Christmas tree!

Will those benefits be compelling? Will people prefer this system over the Pathfinder First Edition system? We look forward to finding out!

Want to look at an item to see how this works in practice?

Cloak of Elvenkind Item 10+

Illusion, Invested, Magical

Method of Use worn, cloak; Bulk L

Activation [[A]] Focus Activation, [[A]] Operate Activation


This cloak is deep green with a voluminous hood, and is embroidered with gold trim and symbols of significance to the elves. The cloak allows you to cast the ghost sound cantrip as an innate arcane spell. When you draw the hood up over your head (an Interact action), the cloak transforms to match the environment around you and muffles your sounds, giving you an item bonus to Stealth checks. If you activate the cloak, you pull the hood up and are affected by invisibility for 1 minute or until you pull the hood back down, whichever comes first.

Type standard; Level 10; Price 1,000 gp

The cloak grants a +3 bonus.

Type greater; Level 18; Price 24,000 gp

The cloak grants a +5 bonus, and invisibility is 4th level. If you're also wearing greater boots of elvenkind, the greater cloak of elvenkind allows you to Sneak in forest environments even when creatures are currently observing you.

Here's a fairly complex item to show multiple parts of the system at once. The cloak of elvenkind is level 10, and there's also a greater cloak of elvenkind with an item level of 18. In case you missed it in the crafting blog, items have levels now, which indicate the point at which you can craft them (as well as being handy for the GM when making treasure hoards). Method of use indicates that this item is worn and that it's a cloak. A few items have this two-part listing because they're hard to wear multiples of. Multiple cloaks, multiple boots... not practical. Multiple rings or amulets? No problem.

This item is both invested (note the invested trait) and activated (as you can see by the activation entry). Investing the cloak lets you cast ghost sound. You get this benefit as long as the cloak is invested, which means you can cast the spell whenever you want without activating the cloak and therefore without spending more Resonance Points. You can also get an item bonus to Stealth checks from the cloak (+3 or +5 for a greater cloak). Finally, you can activate the cloak as you raise the hood, spending 1 Resonance Point to turn invisible! Certainly not every item has as much going on as a cloak of elvenkind, but several classic items seemed like they needed a little extra special treatment! What do you think? Too much?

How about something simpler?

Floating Shield Item 13

Magical

Price 2,800 gp

Method of Use held, 1 hand; Bulk L

Activation [[A]] Operate Activation


This master-quality light wooden shield (Hardness 6) protects you without requiring you to spend actions each round. When you activate this shield, you can release it from your grip as a part of that action. The shield floats in the air next to you, granting you its bonus automatically, as if you Raised the Shield. Because you're not wielding the shield, you can't use reactions such as Shield Block with the shield.

After 1 minute, the shield drops to the ground, ending its floating effect. While the shield is adjacent to you, you can grasp it with an Interact action, ending its floating effect.

You can hold this and use it just like any other shield. Activating it lets you free up a hand to cause the shield to float, where it protects you without you spending an action! While the floating shield offers far less Hardness than many magic shields of a similar level (some have Hardness up to 18!), it's not meant for Shield Block, and its abilities allow you to use it even with a character who needs both hands for other things.

Now let's look at two special types of items: one revamped classic and one brand-new category!

Staves

We went through several different iterations of staves. They needed to remain a powerful tool for spellcasters, but we also wanted them to appear earlier in the game so you didn't have to wait for most staves to appear at higher levels. Let's see the staff of healing!

Staff of Healing Item 3+

Invested, Magical, Necromancy, Staff

Method of Use held, 1 hand; Bulk 1

Activation Cast a Spell (1 RP)


Made of smooth white wood, this staff is capped at each end with a golden cross adorned with a multitude of ruby cabochons. A staff of healing adds an item bonus to the Hit Points you restore any time you cast the heal spell using your own spell slots, using charges from the staff, or from channel energy.

Type minor; Level 3; Price 60 gp; Maximum Charges 3

The item bonus to heal spells is +1.

  • stabilize (cantrip)
  • heal (level 1)

I've included only the level 3 minor staff of healing here. There are also versions at levels 7, 11, and 15, and they add higher-level heal spells, plus restoration, remove disease, restore senses, and more! A staff is tied to you, which means you have to invest it, unlike most held items. This investiture has two extra benefits. First off, it links the staff to you, preventing anyone else from investing the staff for 24 hours. More importantly, it restores charges to the staff equal to the highest level of spell you can cast. You don't have to expend any spells to do this; it's all part of using your Resonance Points. You'll notice this also means that if you find one of these as a 1st-level character, it will take you longer to recharge it than if you're a higher-level spellcaster. You also get the item bonus to healing as long as you hold the invested staff.

Now how do you cast these spells? Well, you activate the staff as part of casting one of the spells in it (spending 1 RP as usual). Then you have two options: You can either expend charges from the staff equal to the spell's level (1 charge for heal here) or expend one of your own spells of that level or higher. Yeah, your staff essentially lets you spontaneously cast the spells in it!

Trinkets

How about something completely different? One thing we wanted to add was a type of item that was like scrolls for martial characters. Spellcasters use scrolls and everyone uses potions, but how about something special that relies on nonmagical skills? Trinkets were the answer! Our first example was designed specifically for fighters.

Fear Gem Item 4

Consumable, Enchantment, Fear, Magical, Mental, Trinket

Price 11 gp

Method of Use affixed, weapon; Bulk

Activation [[F]] Focus Activation; Trigger You use Intimidating Strike, but haven't rolled for the attack yet.


Dark smoke seems to writhe within this obsidian gem. When you activate the gem, if your Intimidating Strike hits, the target is frightened 2 and flat-footed against your attacks until the end of your next turn. If the attack roll is a critical success, the target is flat-footed against your attacks for 1 minute.

Trinkets all have the consumable trait, meaning they're used up after being activated once. They have the "affixed" method of use, and as this one indicates, it has to be affixed to a weapon. You can activate it with a Focus Activation as a free action when you use the Intimidating Strike action from the fighter feat of the same name. This makes the Intimidating Strike more severe, increasing its effect to frightened 2 instead of frightened 1 and making it especially strong on a critical success.

Now how about a trinket that's less specific?

Vanishing Coin Item 9

Consumable, Illusion, Magical, Trinket

Price 85 gp

Method of Use affixed, armor; Bulk

Activation [[F]] Focus Activation; Trigger You attempt a Stealth check for initiative, but haven't rolled yet.

Requirements You are a master in Stealth.


This copper coin dangles from a leather strip strung through a hole drilled into the coin's center. It's usually tied just below the throat on a suit of armor. Until it is activated, the coin becomes invisible for a few seconds every few minutes, but always at random intervals. When you activate the coin, you gain the benefits of a 2nd-level invisibility spell until the end of your next turn.

Anyone with master proficiency in Stealth can use this trinket by affixing it to her armor. She can turn invisible by activating the coin when she rolls a Stealth check for initiative. Pretty useful in the first round of a fight!

Well, there's a lot to say about magic items, and we'll have more to say on Friday. For now, I'm going to leave you with a short list of some of the new items appearing in the Pathfinder Playtest Rulebook in addition to the classics.

  • Anklets of alacrity
  • Feather step stone
  • Forge warden
  • Grim trophy
  • Handwraps of mighty fists
  • Oil of weightlessness
  • Persona mask
  • Potency crystal
  • Runestone
  • Spell duelist's wand
  • Third eye
  • Virtuoso's instrument

Tell us what sorts of items you'd like to see in the final rulebook!

Logan Bonner
Designer

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Pathfinder Playtest Wayne Reynolds
51 to 100 of 1,064 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | next > last >>

Fuzzypaws wrote:


I remain deeply displeased that potions, trinkets and other consumables use up resonance. Especially with it looking like the price of consumables is still a nightmare, with a strong healing potion costing 1200 gp (12000 PF1) and a one round scroll of invisibility not only costing 85 gp (850 PF1) but also being Master tier locked.

Why do you think this is one round duration? All of the (few) durations I've seen for spells have been fixed, not rd/level. Even if it were rd/level, it should be character level, which won't be that low for someone with master proficiency.

Paizo Employee Designer

7 people marked this as a favorite.
willuwontu wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
willuwontu wrote:

Looking over trinkets more, I'm really disliking their consumable nature, 12 vanishing coins are roughly the price of a cloak of elvenkind, and while you get 2 more rounds of invisibilty, they grant far less especially since they get consumed.

I'm curious on whether you guys had office talks about turning trinkets into 1/day items for their activations rather than 1 time only?

1 time only seems a little too harsh and nonuseful. How does a vanishing coins price compare to a potion of invisibilty's?

The vanishing coin's price includes the fact that you can use it while rolling initiative as a freebie as long as you were sneaking; you'll have it up even if your enemy gets the drop on you.

Interesting, this makes it seem better.

Also I just noticed that the coin specifies 2nd level invisibility, whereas the cloak doesn't, is there a reason why?

It would be 2nd by default anyways. A normal scroll of invisibility would only be 8 gp, which even if you do a x10 is actually substantially cheaper than in PF1. However, getting the action economy of the complete freebie vanish before your first turn is worth it when you need it in various circumstances...and if not, just use a scroll.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

I like Resonance. I think it sufficiently solves the listed issues with PF1's magic items.

I DON'T like the complicated action names. Is there a reason why I have to know what type of action it takes to activate a magic item? Does it really matter that one Action is a Focus Activation and another is an Operate Activation?

As for the items.

Cloak of Elvenkind

Why does it require an action to get the stealth bonus? Since there is no duration, wouldn't you just turn it on and leave it on? Why not wrap that up with the attunement of the cloak?

Casting Invisibility at the cost of Resonance is cool.

Floating Shield

Let's just not get into this. Everyone knows how I feel about the shield mechanics as they are. This item just feels like a spit in the face.

Staff of Healing

As I understand it, the staff is a magic item that grants you the ability to cast spells using either charges from the item or your own spell slots, and can have a passive buff. Do I have that right?

My only gripe here is that the explanation of the item feels much more complex than it needs to be. (Though that seems like a theme with magic items.)

Trinkets

Wholly not worth it. From what I understand about gp value in PF2, these are WAY too expensive, especially since the Fear Gem can utterly fail if you miss.

I'd rather have these trinkets be passive boosts to weapons and armor, or magical abilities imbued into your weapon or armor that you can activate at will, as often as you like(at the appropriate time), by expending Resonance.

I get the idea that you want use activated single use items specifically for martials, but I, personally, would never spend a single cp on them.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
ChibiNyan wrote:

I'm a bit confused about the Cloak of Elvenkind...

It says it has both a Focus Activation and an Operate activation, which both cost 1 action. The cloak has 3 abilities... Ghost Sound, Stealth Bonus and Invisibility. So which one is which activation? Is Ghost Sound cast with the normal components of the spell so it doens't need to be listed, then?

Also, I get that the cloak has the "Invested" tag so it means you can attune to it. Which abilities of the cloak require attunement? Just the Ghost Sound? Or is it all 3? Also it's unclear which of the abilities of the cloak require spending Resonance to activate. Is it just the Invisibility one? Where is this specified?

I realize some of that info was explained in the blog after the item entry, but the itme entry alone left A LOT of questions.

All three things require investment. Only the invisibility requires activation. What is activation? Two actions (one focus to concentrate, one operate to actually pull the hood up)- on a meta-level it should cost the same actions as casting Invisibility.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm glad that the Resonance blog is finally here, I need more time to process it, also kudos to Paizo devs for including the reasons behind resonance.


ChibiNyan wrote:

I'm a bit confused about the Cloak of Elvenkind...

It says it has both a Focus Activation and an Operate activation, which both cost 1 action. The cloak has 3 abilities... Ghost Sound, Stealth Bonus and Invisibility. So which one is which activation? Is Ghost Sound cast with the normal components of the spell so it doens't need to be listed, then?

Also, I get that the cloak has the "Invested" tag so it means you can attune to it. Which abilities of the cloak require attunement? Just the Ghost Sound? Or is it all 3? Also it's unclear which of the abilities of the cloak require spending Resonance to activate. Is it just the Invisibility one? Where is this specified?

I realize some of that info was explained in the blog after the item entry, but the itme entry alone left A LOT of questions.

It says that raising up the hood is an operate action, so I assume without raising the hood, you only have the ghost sound. Raising the hood, but not focusing on the magic item would grant you the stealth bonus, and then activating it gives you the 1 minute of invisibility.

I would also guess that much like other non-consumable magic items, all abilities of the magic item will require the 24 hours of attunement. We don't know what the different Resonance costs will be, but it seems like they wanted to make the wondrous items feel super useful, so it may just be 1 RP.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Quote:
You can overspend Resonance Points! If you're at 0 RP, you can attempt to activate or invest an item anyway. You need to attempt a flat check (a d20 roll with no modifiers) against a DC equal to 10 + the number of points you've overspent today.

Up to this point, I think we were all under the assumption that the DC went +1 after every attempt at activating an item.

The text here seems to suggest that the DC only goes up after you have succeed at activating an item. Is that right?


Kaemy wrote:
Quote:
You can overspend Resonance Points! If you're at 0 RP, you can attempt to activate or invest an item anyway. You need to attempt a flat check (a d20 roll with no modifiers) against a DC equal to 10 + the number of points you've overspent today.

Up to this point, I think we were all under the assumption that the DC went +1 after every attempt at activating an item.

The text here seems to suggest that the DC only goes up AFTER you have succeed at activating an item. Is that right?

I believe it was mentioned a while back that if you failed a Resonance Check, you were cut off from trying to spend Resonance again that day.


11 people marked this as a favorite.

I am definitely not a fan of this system. I'm somewhat confused on how this system is easier for new, or old, players to use as compared to the previous system other than you can use multiple rings, necklaces and so forth. We've just added something different to keep track of.

I am also very much not a fan of terms like "Interact Action" which just sounds awkward to my ears.

Again, not a fan and would probably strip this out of any game I ran unless something comes along in the play test to persuade me otherwise.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm really liking what I see, for the most part. I've been really excited about RP and it's nice to get to kind of see it in action.

I did have a couple of questions, though, not about resonance but about items in general. I'm not sure if they can be answered but for staves, and I assume other items that work similarly, I see it lets us use a spell slot, but do you have to be a spellcaster to use the charges? And do you have to have the available spell on your list if so, or could, say, a wizard use the staff of healing as a backup healer?

I play with smaller groups, generally, and it'd be great to open up some more possible healing options.

Paizo Employee Designer

34 people marked this as a favorite.
TheFinish wrote:

the second best healing potion is so much cheaper that taking the resonance hit is far better than the gold hit. And I expect this will happen with other items too.

If this is the case, then that's excellent! If everyone always uses the weakest healing potion in the game, even at the highest levels, then resonance is not doing its job. If everyone only uses the absolute top-tier item out of fear of squeezing resonance too thin, then resonance is not abundant enough and is too constrained. If something in the middle happens, where resonance and gold balance each other out, creating a situation of shifting usage depending on your level and relative wealth in order to do what's best for your current situation on both axes (RP and GP), such that you often are using the second-best potion available for your level, as an example of one such situation, then that's actually very good. Resonance is supposed to work like a second axis with GP to make your decisions more meaningful, interesting, and nuanced, rather than just pure GP axis which we know will always favor spamming the lowest-level items.


thflame wrote:
Kaemy wrote:
Quote:
You can overspend Resonance Points! If you're at 0 RP, you can attempt to activate or invest an item anyway. You need to attempt a flat check (a d20 roll with no modifiers) against a DC equal to 10 + the number of points you've overspent today.

Up to this point, I think we were all under the assumption that the DC went +1 after every attempt at activating an item.

The text here seems to suggest that the DC only goes up AFTER you have succeed at activating an item. Is that right?

I believe it was mentioned a while back that if you failed a Resonance Check, you were cut off from trying to spend Resonance again that day.

The way remember it (I may be wrong), you got cut off from trying only if you Critically Failed the Resonance Check. Otherwise you didn't manage to activate it (because you are "low on magic"), but could try again.

The difference in the average extra Resonance charges you can get on a daily basis changes substancially (assuming you need to Critically Fail to get cut off) between the DC increasing +1 per attempt or +1 per success.

Dark Archive

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I’m eager to see how resonance plays, but am not yet convinced the problems it seeks to remedy warrants the mechanic. Limiting traditionally spam-able items to uses/day and adhering to level-based wealth accomplishes the same goals without shoehorning another mechanic into the system for players and GMs to track. The proof will be in the pudding come August, I suppose.


13 people marked this as a favorite.
Paizo Blog wrote:
A potion requires you to spend an Operate Activation action to drink it. A necklace of fireballs requires you to spend 2 Operate Activation actions

Urgh.

It's possible that I'll get used to this sort of phrasing, but right now it just seems... no.


Not quite sure of my opinions on some things here, though I appreciate that Staves can be used to add variety to Vancian casting and I think seeing people try to optimise their utility output per resonance point might be interesting to watch (though it could lead to uncertainty and excess caution from some players).

The cloak of elvenkind feels kind of terrifyingly powerful somehow, but maybe by that level it doesn't matter so much. Floating shield somehow feels weak for its level though I know cognitively it probably really isn't (and depending on how shield bonuses work you could probably have a really stupid battle where you start it with like 4 floating shields protecting you).

One thing that is getting me is that unless I'm reading it wrong, you can regain Stave resonance by uninvesting and reinvesting, in which case it might be better to either directly allow resetting of charges via resonance points and maybe some free time, or just add a caveat stating that those are the charges for the day.

It's interesting to see that some items can directly convert resonance to spells while Staves can't. Does this mean direct conversion items are relatively rare or thematically powerful?


4 people marked this as a favorite.

Rolled out of bed on a cold, snowy, morning and started the day with this blog.

I can see the thinking, but... ummmmm.

I think I might just go back to bed and pretend this start to the day didn't happen.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

So the blog didn't confirm it, but personally I'm reading:

Focus Action = Free Action
Opperate Action = 1 Action (Somatic), generates Attacks of Opportunity.
Command Action = 1 Action (Verbal), doesn't generate Attacks of Opportunity.


6 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook Subscriber

So, thinking about this more, I think my biggest issue isn't with the system, but the layout of how the information is presented. Several of these items I had to read several times to understand. I am sure playtesting will point this out and hopefully we can get some changes.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

My biggest problem: Item prices are in GP here but SP elsewhere. I get that you are trying to make gold more valuable by making silver less valuable, but listing different items in different currencies is probably going to cause confusion for me and my table.

Otherwise I kinda like the system. Staves seem like they might actually be used in the new edition (virtually never saw them before). Trinkets seem interesting, though I hope they aren't all one use items.

Quick question: Is the frost property rune capable of being turned on/off, or has that been totally taken away?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Love the idea of staves being something that can actually be bought and used at lower levels. I've always liked the concept of having a caster weilding a magical staff, but have never played in a game that's gotten far enough to even consider them.

That being said, tracking charges in addition to resonance seems a bit clunky, especially since one of the stated selling points of resonance was to help remove some of the individual item tracking. Not to mention that I'm not a huge fan of how everything seems to be tied to a character's level as a modifier, which seems to be the main limitation on resonance for most characters.

Also, how long does it take to invest resonance in an item? Is it something that's only done at the beginning of the day? Or would it be possible to have an uninvested staff on a character that they then pull out and invest in to use in the middle of combat (or toss to another character to do the same)?

Paizo Employee Designer

6 people marked this as a favorite.

Just to give you guys the PF1 equivalencies for these from activation in the PF1 CRB (some have probably already guessed):

Operate = Pure Use Activated (if you remember in the PF1 CRB, use activated's description breaks up and repeats command word and mentally willing the activation to happen, but in the first line "This type of item simply has to be used in order to activate it. A character has to drink a potion, swing a sword, interpose a shield to deflect a blow in combat, look through a lens, sprinkle dust, wear a ring, or don a hat. Use activation is generally straightforward and self-explanatory.")

Command = Command Word

Focus = Mentally willing the activation to happen (found inside of use activated in the PF1 CRB)

Liberty's Edge

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Two notes:

1) the descriptions are confusing as they are badly laid out. In particular the cloak of elvenkind. It explains how to activate invisibility and then it says that only the greater cloak has invisibility (or so I read).

Fuzzypaws wrote:


I can see the price of at least wondrous items has been re-examined if a cloak that not only provides a skill bonus but can potentially cast Invisibility 20 times a day is only 1000 gp (10,000 gp PF1).
tionately expensive for their benefit compared to a permanent item.

Either Fuzzypaws or I am wrong.

2) The prices don't seem correct. They seem to jump around with little balance between each other.

Cloak of elvenkind
Type standard; Level 10; Price 1,000 gp
The cloak grants a +3 bonus.
Type greater; Level 18; Price 24,000 gpType greater; Level 18; Price 24,000 gp
The cloak grants a +5 bonus, and invisibility is 4th level.

Potentially several invisibility (greater?) in a day, so a PF1 price of 240.000 gp maybe is ok.

Floating Shield Item 13
Magical
Price 2,800 gp

The equivalent of 28.000 gp in PF1? Seem high even with the action advantage and force you into using a light wooden shield that will not last long when used with a reaction and RP every time you activate it.

Staff of healing
Type minor; Level 3; Price 60 gp; Maximum Charges 3

600 old gp. Has a slightly higher RP cost than the shield (1 for the initial investment and 1 for each activation), but has a constant effect and a manageable price even a low level.

I am perplexed.

- * - * -

As a general rule RP seem good.


7 people marked this as a favorite.
John Ryan 783 wrote:
So, thinking about this more, I think my biggest issue isn't with the system, but the layout of how the information is presented. Several of these items I had to read several times to understand. I am sure playtesting will point this out and hopefully we can get some changes.

Very much agree with this the layout of how the items are presented needs some work. There are post made within the last hour that explain what the items to much more clearly than the blog which I assume uses the actual playtest format.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Kaemy wrote:

So the blog didn't confirm it, but personally I'm reading:

Focus Action = Free Action
Opperate Action = 1 Action (Somatic), generates Attacks of Opportunity.
Command Action = 1 Action (Verbal), doesn't generate Attacks of Opportunity.

At least in the playtest demo I played in at Origins, our (volunteer) GM's interpretation of the rules was that Somatic and Verbal both did not provoke, while material components did. This doesn't really change what your saying just swap Somatic to Material.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Diego Rossi wrote:

Two notes:

1) the descritptions are confusing as they are badly laid out. In particular the cloak of elvenkind. It explains how to activate invisibility and then it says that only the greater cloak has invisibility (or so I read).

Both cloaks have invis, base is 2nd level, greater is 4th.


29 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Not a fan. I can tell already that this is going to be a big headache.

1. RP looks like it doesn't reduce complexity at all, since many things will have single uses, charges, or limited uses per day. All of the items listed are pretty difficult to parse already.

2. It's an artificial constraint on player options, meaning characters who are intended to make use of various small magical tricks are prevented from doing so for no compelling reason.

3. It's competing with gold as a throttling resource, which diminishes the impact of gold. Drinking a zillion potions or wearing a ton of items was already limited by the monetary cost. What value is RP really adding here that GP didn't already account for?

4. Martials are historically more item dependent. If the trend continues, what's their compensation for having to worry about charisma when casters still don't?

5. I really don't think anyone is going to risk a coin flip for overspending resonance. If it's a critical moment, where you absolutely must get a magical effect, what group is going to feel great about losing that coin flip, wasting the cost of the potion, and wasting the action? Failing it drink a potion is not high on my list of exciting developments.

Liberty's Edge

27 people marked this as a favorite.

I'd like to start by saying that I'm fine with Resonance conceptually. I'm on board and think it's a far superior alternative to item slots for worn items, and seems a reasonable way to restrict consumables like potions.

But as is? It's too fiddly combined with charges. It's messy and inelegant to reduce two things every time you use an item with charges (which seem common, Wands and Staves seem to all fall into this category) and kind of a bookkeeping nightmare. I mean, point #2 is defeating its own purpose, as it reduces complexity slightly with X/day abilities (and apparently not even all of those if Luck Blade is 1/day), but vastly increasing it with items that use charges.

This is not simpler. It is more complicated and logistically difficult. And that's an issue.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Quote:
The cloak allows you to cast the ghost sound cantrip as an innate arcane spell.

Cantrip means it is automatically cast at the highest level of spell you have, right? What if you don't have spell levels? Can you still use this?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Oh also!

While the separate activation operation things might sound inelegant, part of me actually really likes them. Because it means I can give my players convoluted instructions like You swish and flick the wand, fill your mind with with the power of love, and intone the sacred words "Oi, watch it mate! Don't make me come over there and glass you!" or You spin the red dial, hit the keyboard for a bit, and then swear at it.


13 people marked this as a favorite.

Please... Stop with the "casual tone" when presenting items. Look at that Healing Staff mess...
Next time please just Copy-Paste the full actual Rulebook entry THEN start blabering about its ramifications.


11 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook Subscriber

I am not a huge fan of all the abilities baked into the paragraph. It seems to make sense for the cloak for example to read:

"This cloak is deep green with a voluminous hood, and is embroidered with gold trim and symbols of significance to the elves. "

While invested you gain the Ghost Sound Cantrip.

[[A]](Interact) You may pull your hood up to gain +x bonus to stealth while your hood is in this position.

[[A]][[Some fancy Resonance symbol]] (Interact) You may pull your hood up and gain the effects of invisibility for one minute or until you lower your hood with an (Interact).

Paizo Employee Designer

8 people marked this as a favorite.
Deadmanwalking wrote:
an item with charges (which seem common, Wands and Staves seem to all fall into this category)

Wands and staves, and only wands and staves, fall into this category. Staves are almost certainly the most complex item type in the game right now.


17 people marked this as a favorite.
Kaemy wrote:

Please... Stop with the "casual tone" when presenting items. Look at that Healing Staff mess...

Next time please just Copy-Paste the full actual Rulebook entry THEN start blabering about its ramifications.

To tie into that .. and I recognize that this may just be a pet peeve here -- but could we have about half as many exclamation marks as we've been getting? It doesn't really read as excitement and just more like my aunt is trying to convince me that a relative's upcoming event is really interesting.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I really like trinkets. :) I'm all for the addition of a limited resource like Resonance (limited resources means the need to make strategic choices).

However, some unclear/unexplained things:

- Investing costs a Resolve Point as well? I thought that it would be limited by your RP, but it wouldn't cost a daily RP. :(
- Cloak of Elvenkind, I really don't get it. Maybe the description is just unclear. What is the difference between the Focus and Operate interactions? And why in the text, there's also a mention of an Interact action? And obviously I can keep activating the one-minute use the whole day..??
- If I choose to spontaneously cast a Staff spell from my own spellslots.. It still costs a RP?

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I am very much looking forward to playtesting the resonance system, I have no idea how many points should be enough, but I think there is a very sound reason for its inclusion.

Also...actually using and wielding a staff as a caster sounds just great.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
John Ryan 783 wrote:

I am not a huge fan of all the abilities baked into the paragraph. It seems to make sense for the cloak for example to read:

"This cloak is deep green with a voluminous hood, and is embroidered with gold trim and symbols of significance to the elves. "

While invested you gain the Ghost Sound Cantrip.

[[A]](Interact) You may pull your hood up to gain +x bonus to stealth while your hood is in this position.

[[A]][[Some fancy Resonance symbol]] (Interact) You may pull your hood up and gain the effects of invisibility for one minute or until you lower your hood with an (Interact).

I agree. The biggest problem I have with this blog is all about how the information is displayed.

Grand Lodge

8 people marked this as a favorite.
Blog wrote:
A few items have this two-part listing because they're hard to wear multiples of. Multiple cloaks, multiple boots... not practical. Multiple rings or amulets? No problem.

Not sure how multiple cloaks is impractical or hard in any way. I regularly wear multiple coats while skiing.

Seems weird to not have formal item slots and then start suggesting that we not be able to wear multiple cloaks.


12 people marked this as a favorite.

Resonance is the one part of the previews so far that I've had serious doubts about & I'm afraid this blog only heightens them.
It's a confusing mess of unintuituve gamey-sounding terms, multiple resource tracking with very little payoff. I just think it's harder to understand than what it's replacing - I'd rather each item have it's own usage limits in plain english, like PF1 than atempt to 'unify' them in this clumsy way.
Furthermore, the problems it's solving aren't even very big problems. For me, the cure is worse than the disease so far. I will give the system a fair go on the playtest though & I'm ready to admit I'm wrong if it plays much better than it reads.

On to the positive: I like the concept of trinkets a lot - fire & forget cool 1-use items for martials to get in on some of the caster's magic item fun. I think they should work well with or without the resonance system.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
knightnday wrote:

I am definitely not a fan of this system. I'm somewhat confused on how this system is easier for new, or old, players to use as compared to the previous system other than you can use multiple rings, necklaces and so forth. We've just added something different to keep track of.

I am also very much not a fan of terms like "Interact Action" which just sounds awkward to my ears.

Again, not a fan and would probably strip this out of any game I ran unless something comes along in the play test to persuade me otherwise.

I agree it's a little hard to get your head around on the first read. Admittedly I found the language a little obtuse, almost unnatural. I keep reading it and the only thing I get from it is now you only have one resource pull to draw from for magic items resonance instead of multiple charges for different items (which I already new). That does streamline things but now the awkward wording and weird activation language (requirements) makes it a little confusing (at least for me). I also wondering if this couldn't have been handled in a much simpler way. I'm thinking about it.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Jurassic Pratt wrote:
Blog wrote:
A few items have this two-part listing because they're hard to wear multiples of. Multiple cloaks, multiple boots... not practical. Multiple rings or amulets? No problem.

Not sure how multiple cloaks is impractical or hard in any way. I regularly wear multiple coats while skiing.

Seems weird to not have formal item slots and then start suggesting that we not be able to wear multiple cloaks.

Cloaks as a accessory are just unpractical when saving the world, haven't you ever seen Incredibles? (Yes I know cloaks != capes)


6 people marked this as a favorite.
Mark Seifter wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
an item with charges (which seem common, Wands and Staves seem to all fall into this category)
Wands and staves, and only wands and staves, fall into this category. Staves are almost certainly the most complex item type in the game right now.

Why? Would it really be too powerful to let someone cast a spell as much as they have Resonance? I personally loathe tracking uses per day and I had hoped that Resonance would be the end of that. I don't see the point.

Paizo Employee Designer

7 people marked this as a favorite.
Phantasmist wrote:
knightnday wrote:

I am definitely not a fan of this system. I'm somewhat confused on how this system is easier for new, or old, players to use as compared to the previous system other than you can use multiple rings, necklaces and so forth. We've just added something different to keep track of.

I am also very much not a fan of terms like "Interact Action" which just sounds awkward to my ears.

Again, not a fan and would probably strip this out of any game I ran unless something comes along in the play test to persuade me otherwise.

I agree it's a little hard to get your head around on the first read. Admittedly I found the language a little obtuse, almost unnatural. I keep reading it and the only thing I get from it is now you only have one resource pull to draw from for magic items resonance instead of multiple charges for different items (which I already new). That does streamline things but now the awkward wording and weird activation language (requirements) makes it a little confusing (at least for me). I also wondering if this couldn't have been handled in a much simpler way. I'm thinking about it.

The activation and requirements lines are unrelated to resonance, and they could definitely use a look from everyone as we figure out the best way to present them. Let us know if you come up with anything!


6 people marked this as a favorite.

Brainstormed item,

"Trinket Armor: This armor may look like a Chain Mail, but it's actually made out of hundreds of trinkets... Everytime you use 20, the AC goes down by 1. When the AC reaches 0, the armor and the trinkets become useless. Up until that point, you are considered to have affixed every trinket that exists."


2 people marked this as a favorite.

So one thing I keep tripping up on is "how can I tell when something costs resonance." Since the first time I read that Cloak of Elvenkind entry I did not catch that the Invisibility cost resonance until the paragraph after it called this out.

Is my clue for "this costs resonance" simply the presence of the verb "activate"?

I may just be unfamiliar with the system and this will come with time, but I find it slightly obscure that using the staff (for a spell) is free but using the cloak (for a spell) is not. Are we just going to have to be really careful about verbs?

I must say though I'm very happy that staves are good and are available at all levels. I'm happier with the Wizard waving a staff around, even if they have a golf bag of them, than a wand.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Elleth wrote:


One thing that is getting me is that unless I'm reading it wrong, you can regain Stave resonance by uninvesting and reinvesting, in which case it might be better to either directly allow resetting of charges via resonance points and maybe some free time, or just add a caveat stating that those are the charges for the day.

I'm pretty certain you are reading it wrong. Uninvesting does not restore any Resonance. Resonance is a per day resource pool.

Investing adds to the total charges currently in the staff to the staff's maximum.

A full charged high level Staff might have 27+ maximum charges and a 17th level or higher spellcaster with 9th level spells would recharge 9 charges every time they invested in the staff until the maximum was reached.

Quote:


It's interesting to see that some items can directly convert resonance to spells while Staves can't. Does this mean direct conversion items are relatively rare or thematically powerful?

Its more that Staves give utility. In theory anyone can use a charged Staff of Healing.

A Wizard can use a Staff of Healing to cast stabilize and heal by spending Resonance and either the staff's charges or their own spell slots. A Fighter without any spell casting ability can use a fully charged Staff of Healing and Resonance to cast a 1st level heal three times or a 3rd level heal one time.

Liberty's Edge

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Mark Seifter wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
an item with charges (which seem common, Wands and Staves seem to all fall into this category)
Wands and staves, and only wands and staves, fall into this category. Staves are almost certainly the most complex item type in the game right now.

This is good to know, and if it were only Staves I'd be less concerned. Wands are super common and gonna continue to be so, though, and by far the most logistically difficult item to keep track of in PF1. Adding Resonance costs just makes that worse.

I mean, lower number of charges would help (and seems likely based on stuff you said in another thread)...but I still remain very concerned about the specific Resonance/Charges interaction.


willuwontu wrote:

Brainstormed item,

"Trinket Armor: This armor may look like a Chain Mail, but it's actually made out of hundreds of trinkets... Everytime you use 20, the AC goes down by 1. When the AC reaches 0, the armor and the trinkets become useless. Up until that point, you are considered to have affixed every trinket that exists."

How dare you ninja-post my Discord rambling? XD


What do I want to see?

Resonance as a means of shooting energy from a weapon.

That Frost (or flame/shock/etc) property rune mentioned would be the way to do it. More actions or resonance to deliver more damage.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Given my initial reservations, I'm really liking everything presented in this blog. The wording on some things is a little clunky (Operate Activation actions are 3 words where hopefully 1 would do).

My only concern remains with consumable items such as potions and scrolls requiring resonance to use. Consumables were already a hard sell in 1E, with mainly the cheapest of the cheap actually seeing use. Having to expend time to craft, initial gold cost, and resonance and actions to activate all for an effect that's one-and-done seems like it's going to swing things away from using consumables and towards saving up for permanent items even further.

We'll see when the playtest launches, but I worry that the resonance mechanic (which works well for solving several other magic item issues in 1E) will make consumable-happy players sad.

51 to 100 of 1,064 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Archive / Pathfinder / Playtests & Prerelease Discussions / Pathfinder Playtest / Paizo Blog: Trinkets and Treasures All Messageboards