Society Unchained

Monday, April 27, 2015

Ever since its announcement nearly a year ago, players and GMs alike have been speculating about what would appear in Pathfinder Unchained. It was only a short step from there to start wondering what would appear in Pathfinder Society Organized Play. We started exploring this same question early in the book's production, and even then it was clear that some sections would not be a good fit for the campaign, others would absolutely play a role, and many others would require closer study. With the generous assistance of the Pathfinder Design Team and numerous volunteers, we were able to weigh the pros and cons and finalize what our Pathfinders might see in the field.

We'll start by discussing some of the sub-systems that likely come as no surprise to anyone, largely because they would require massive character rebuilds, severely impact how the game works for someone who just has the Core Rulebook, or require us to scrap the current XP system. Much of Chapter 3 (Gameplay) falls into this category; removing alignment, ditching iterative attacks, altering poison, heavy revising action economy, and introducing wound thresholds would invalidate considerable chunks of existing scenarios and possibly wreck how many of our existing characters function. Other features reference gameplay elements that simply don't appear in the organized play campaign, so dynamic item creation, alternate profession rules, fractional base bonuses, and staggered advancement are not a good fit. As intriguing as the many new skill options look, imposing consolidated skills, grouped skills, or background skills would just be too disruptive for a campaign in its seventh year. The same is true for many of the magic systems, including simplified spellcasting, spell alterations, automatic bonus progressions, and innate item bonuses.


Illustration by Tomasz Chistowski

Several other systems were not so cut and dry. We discussed the stamina pool system for quite a while before deciding not to include it; it is an extensive section that we may revisit in the future, but at this time it is not available in the campaign. We came to a similar conclusion for variant multiclassing. We are adding the Signature Skill feat for exclusive use by the unchained rogue—which I suppose spoils a later surprise. John is very excited to include esoteric components and scaling items on a few Chronicle sheets, but these items are not available for purchase otherwise.

Still, we imagine Chapter 1 (Classes) is the topic everyone is waiting for, and we have seen many of you making fairly accurate predictions. All four Pathfinder Unchained classes—barbarian, monk, rogue, and summoner—will be legal for use in Pathfinder Society Organized Play. The unchained barbarian, monk, and rogue are available in addition to the versions that appear in the Core Rulebook; as noted on page 8 of Pathfinder Unchained, "These classes can be used alongside their original counterparts (although individual characters must use one version or the other exclusively)."

In fact, we're so excited about these classes that we're announcing a one-time limited rebuild to anyone with one or more levels in these classes, allowing those characters to switch any levels in the four classes to their unchained version at no cost. This includes the automatic retraining of any rage powers or rogue talents, as well as the free retraining and selling at full cost of any feats, items, and other character options that no long function properly due to the unchained classes features. For example, a rogue automatically gains the ability to add her Dexterity bonus to damage, so she could sell back her +1 agile rapier at full price. Likewise, a barbarian with the Raging Vitality feat would no longer benefit from its increased Constitution bonus, so she could retrain that feat for free. Much like when we have offered free faction changes in the past, you'll need to take advantage of this opportunity before you play the character after April 29, 2015.

You may notice that we did not say the unchained summoner would be available alongside its Advanced Player's Guide counterpart. Effective immediately, the Advanced Player's Guide summoner is no longer available in the organized play campaign, and the unchained summoner is its legal replacement. However, we recognize that someone who already has a summoner (and the book to play it) should not be punished for this change. Therefore, if you have a character with levels in the summoner class, and you have played the character at least once at level 2 or higher, you get to keep your summoner as is; you may also continue to gain levels in the summoner class. Any character gaining a level in summoner for the first time must use the unchained summoner, and anyone character still within the 1st-level window of free rebuilding must also use the unchained summoner.

As a final note, we want to advise folks about archetype and other features' compatibility for the unchained classes for the organized play campaign.

  • The unchained barbarian qualifies for any archetype that does not modify how the rage class feature operates (such as the urban barbarian archetype), and she is limited to any barbarian rage power that appears in Chapter 1 (including the rage powers on page 13)
  • The unchained monk does not qualify for any archetypes, save those in future publications that specifically cite their compatibility with the unchained monk class.
  • The unchained rogue qualifies for all existing rogue archetypes, but she is limited to any rogue talents listed in Chapter 1 (including the sidebar on page 24).
  • The unchained summoner qualifies for all existing summoner archetypes, save those that modify the eidolon's type or base form.

The Pathfinder Society Team

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Amiri Barbarians Iconics Monks Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Pathfinder Society Rogues Summoners Tomasz Chistowski
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Paizo Employee 5/5 Designer

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Walter Sheppard wrote:

Similar train of thought as Nefreet

I've been wanting to make a summoner with a displaced beast. What would you recommend as a good subtype for that? I haven't familiarized myself with Unchained yet.

<Response Redacted Due to OGL violation. Did you mean a kamadan?>

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5

3 people marked this as a favorite.

We can't even mention Bisplacer Deast in a forum post?

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Northwest aka WalterGM

7 people marked this as a favorite.
Mark Seifter wrote:
Walter Sheppard wrote:

Similar train of thought as Nefreet

I've been wanting to make a summoner with a displaced beast. What would you recommend as a good subtype for that? I haven't familiarized myself with Unchained yet.

<Response Redacted Due to OGL violation. Did you mean a kamadan?>

Oh no! I hope Mr. Jones and Mr. Rodriguez don't get called in on this!

Scarab Sages

redward wrote:


Druids are vilified in droves. Both options weren't lacking enmity & scorn.

We can probably expect, when the "unchained druid" comes out, that they too might have the automatic only new ones applied. I suspect all animal companions can expect a similar draw down in later versions of the book.

I have a strength rogue, and I haven't seen the book, but weapon finesse does nothting for him, unless I can modify abilities to make him dex prime and utilize the powers. My understanding is the limited rebuild is class, feats that are made less needed, magic items less needed, and class abilities moved or changed. Correct?

And only the levels in 4 classes are affected, - so if you have a range rogue, only the rogue levels and related powers change.

Silver Crusade

So you can play the regular versions or the unchained version just not both? Only the summoner if you have a character who is a summoner level 2.1 then he doesn't need to change to the unchained version from my understanding but you can't also make a new unchained summoner level 1, while I still have the regular summoner level 2.1?


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The weird magical cats with a miss-chance. Old Summoner could get away with making such a magical cat as long as you had access to the Fetchling chronicle sheet as it opened up the evolutions that allowed for your eidolon to gain a miss-chance based on dim or darker lighting conditions

However, I personally haven't seen the new summoner, and say I would doubt that eidolons have an evolution that grants them a miss-chance.

Since the change from Normal to Unchained is mandatory for Summoners who are not grandfathered in, only Bisplacer-Deast-esque Eidolons for a grandfathered Fetchling Summoner would be allowed.

Grand Lodge

This sounds pretty cool!

3/5 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Mark Seifter wrote:
Walter Sheppard wrote:

Similar train of thought as Nefreet

I've been wanting to make a summoner with a displaced beast. What would you recommend as a good subtype for that? I haven't familiarized myself with Unchained yet.

<Response Redacted Due to OGL violation. Did you mean a kamadan?>

Would you also get in trouble for saying that beauty is in the eye of the Beholder? XD

3/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Nefreet wrote:
We can't even mention Bisplacer Deast in a forum post?

That's right, you! Yip!

♪♫ Oh, my carrion has a first name... ♫♪♪

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville aka thaX

My question... how does this effect the First Worlder Archtype for the Summoner. Can that Archtype be use with the Unchained Summoner or is that one that is messing with the Eidolon to much to be able to work with Unchained?

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Damanta wrote:

Mrh. So that's 1 character illegal until I can get the hardcover.

Any idea on when the hardcovers arrive in stores in the Netherlands?

Amazon Germany and UK said something like May 12th.

Sovereign Court

Blog wrote:
The unchained summoner qualifies for all existing summoner archetypes, save those that modify the eidolon's type or base form.

First Worlder Archetype modifies base form IIRC.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Mulgar wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Dorothy Lindman wrote:

Question on summoners and the new April 29th date:

The blog post said "effective immediately" summoners from ACG were no longer legal. However, the date was then changed from "today" to April 29th.

Does this mean that pre-level 2 summoners from ACG can still be played until April 29th?

We have three tier 1-5 tables starting in 3 hours, and it would be nice to get a clarification before then.

It means no new summoners from ACG may be created the minute the blog went live.
So I wonder who else saw this coming? And recently made a summoner? Like I did.....

Yeah... I saw this comming to, but I will switch to the new summoner so it doesn't affect me.

3/5

3 people marked this as a favorite.
FiddlersGreen wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Walter Sheppard wrote:

Similar train of thought as Nefreet

I've been wanting to make a summoner with a displaced beast. What would you recommend as a good subtype for that? I haven't familiarized myself with Unchained yet.

<Response Redacted Due to OGL violation. Did you mean a kamadan?>
Would you also get in trouble for saying that beauty is in the eye of the Beholder? XD

Oh stop! *blushes*

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Carlos Robledo wrote:
Nohwear wrote:
I am a little upset though. Since I do not get to play much outside of PFS, this means that I can not play a plant summoner. It is just a bit of a tease. :(
You could make a Protean eidolon with the unchained one... proteans can kinda look like anything since they are the essence of chaos...

Proteans are limited to the serpentine base form though... elementals are very versatile though.

1/5 Venture-Captain, Germany–Hannover aka Hayato Ken

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
Damanta wrote:

Mrh. So that's 1 character illegal until I can get the hardcover.

Any idea on when the hardcovers arrive in stores in the Netherlands?

Amazon Germany and UK said something like May 12th.

May 21.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Acedio wrote:
Blog wrote:
The unchained summoner qualifies for all existing summoner archetypes, save those that modify the eidolon's type or base form.
First Worlder Archetype modifies base form IIRC.

and as a double whamy, it alters the eidolon's type, from outsider to fey.

Silver Crusade 3/5

It was asked upthread, but I didn't see an answer...Can we expect this on the PRD? Soon? I have pre-ordered the book from the FLGS, but it would sure be nice to see what changes I need to make to my characters.

5/5 RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

David Harrison wrote:

So with the unchained barbarian's rage just giving a flat bonus to all melee and thrown weapon damage, are we going to see fewer two-handed weapon wielding barbarians and more two-weapon fighting barbarians?

Would the retrain allow you to change from a greatsword using barbarian to a two weapon user?

You can't

1. Change your attribute scores
2. Retrain feats not tied to barbarian class abilities
3. You can't get a full refund on your two handed weapon unless it has special abilities tied to your barbarian abilities.

Changing a two-handed weapon barbarian into a two weapon fighting barbarian will be difficult with the limited rebuild rules.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Nohwear wrote:
I am a little upset though. Since I do not get to play much outside of PFS, this means that I can not play a plant summoner. It is just a bit of a tease. :(

Yeah I already complained about that in the product thread for Heroes of the Wild, but if you are lucky it won't even become PFS legal at all thus sidestepping this issue.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Damien Helslicer wrote:

Nice to see that I bought the Advanced Player's Guide, only to make it worthless.

So this is your way to get everyone to buy more of your books.

Guess you're pulling a Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro's stunt.
Well I won't buying this book or anymore of your products.
As a matter of fact I'm deleting my account also!

Well to be fair the Advanced Players Guide still has quite a lot to offer to players, from spell, to items, to the other PFS legal classes.

Sad to see you go, but many feel that this is a positive change.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Benjamin Falk wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
Damanta wrote:

Mrh. So that's 1 character illegal until I can get the hardcover.

Any idea on when the hardcovers arrive in stores in the Netherlands?

Amazon Germany and UK said something like May 12th.
May 21.

Shame, but I checked a couple of weeks ago, oh well it is not like my subscription copy is likely to arrive before that.

Grand Lodge

I have to wait for PDFs to be available in two days to see the changes to Monk, but I'm guessing I'm far better off keeping my level 10 Oni-Spawn Tiefling Martial Artist and not rebuilding literally everything about it.

Scarab Sages 4/5

poundpuppy30 wrote:
So you can play the regular versions or the unchained version just not both? Only the summoner if you have a character who is a summoner level 2.1 then he doesn't need to change to the unchained version from my understanding but you can't also make a new unchained summoner level 1, while I still have the regular summoner level 2.1?

I think you are misunderstanding. You can have an unchained rogue and a Core Rulebook rogue as long as they are separate character. You just can't have a single rogue with levels in both unchained rogue and core rogue.

Similarly, if you have your APG summoner at 2.1 you may continue to play him as an APG summoner. That does not prevent you from making a new level 1 unchained summoner.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

So, what about all those summoner evolutions that were printed outside of the APG? Are they still PFS legal for the unchained summoner?

What about other classes that can take class features from other classes like:

Ninja Trick wrote:
Rogue Talent: The ninja can select a rogue talent in place of a ninja trick. The ninja cannot select a rogue talent that has the same name as a ninja trick. The ninja can select this talent multiple times.

The same question is relevant when it comes to Skalds learning rage powers, a Slayer learning rogue talents etc. and it gets a little bit more complicated when a character has levels in the unchained rogue class and slayer.

And I know, that it is currently not PFS legal (but with the loss of pounce at level 1.. well I have not given up hope just yet), but what about something like the primal companion summoner?


John Compton wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
This would mean that you can make an unchained ninja, since the ninja is an archtype?
The ninja is an alternate class and does not interact with the unchained rogue class. There are no "unchained ninjas" in Pathfinder Society Organized Play.

In Ultimate Combat (p. 15) it is stated that "Rogue Talent: The ninja can select a rogue talent in place of a ninja trick." Since the ninja is not interacting with the unchained rogue class does this mean that a ninja could NOT take a rogue talent from Unchained?

Thank you.

^3

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Lieutenant, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka thistledown

4 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm upset that they're requiring the changes before the book is available to purchase, and there was no safety period. But I don't have a summoner or plans for one, so I'm not really affected by it. Still kinda a shady move for publishers.

2/5

Carlos Robledo wrote:
Nohwear wrote:
I am a little upset though. Since I do not get to play much outside of PFS, this means that I can not play a plant summoner. It is just a bit of a tease. :(
You could make a Protean eidolon with the unchained one... proteans can kinda look like anything since they are the essence of chaos...

Looking like something and being something are two entirely different things. I look like a plant. Ack i got critted. I look like a plant. Ack why are none of my immunities working? Oh right I only look like a plant but I am not actually one.

5/5 5/55/55/5

thistledown wrote:
I'm upset that they're requiring the changes before the book is available to purchase, and there was no safety period. But I don't have a summoner or plans for one, so I'm not really affected by it. Still kinda a shady move for publishers.

I don't think its shady, i think they've just been dealing with/getting ready with it for so long that they didn't realize we don't have it yet. Its been spoiled by trailers more than the avengers movie. :)

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Northwest aka WalterGM

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Ryan McLeod wrote:
Carlos Robledo wrote:
Nohwear wrote:
I am a little upset though. Since I do not get to play much outside of PFS, this means that I can not play a plant summoner. It is just a bit of a tease. :(
You could make a Protean eidolon with the unchained one... proteans can kinda look like anything since they are the essence of chaos...
Looking like something and being something are two entirely different things. I look like a plant. Ack i got critted. I look like a plant. Ack why are none of my immunities working? Oh right I only look like a plant but I am not actually one.

Common misconception, but in Pathfinder, plants can be crit.

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Ryan McLeod wrote:
Carlos Robledo wrote:
Nohwear wrote:
I am a little upset though. Since I do not get to play much outside of PFS, this means that I can not play a plant summoner. It is just a bit of a tease. :(
You could make a Protean eidolon with the unchained one... proteans can kinda look like anything since they are the essence of chaos...
Looking like something and being something are two entirely different things. I look like a plant. Ack i got critted. I look like a plant. Ack why are none of my immunities working? Oh right I only look like a plant but I am not actually one.

funny that you say that...Protean actually becomes immune to crit.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Global Organized Play Coordinator

thistledown wrote:
I'm upset that they're requiring the changes before the book is available to purchase, and there was no safety period. But I don't have a summoner or plans for one, so I'm not really affected by it. Still kinda a shady move for publishers.

The blog advises April 29. The book and PDF are available to purchase on April 29.


blog wrote:
Effective immediately, the Advanced Player's Guide summoner is no longer available in the organized play campaign, and the unchained summoner is its legal replacement.

The Monster Summoner's Handbook is due out in June. It has "dozens of new feats, magic items, archetypes, and character options". Could we (please) have some further information on this? It would be extremely appreciated.

Thanks


Saddened by this as my summoner had 2 creds and Wild Caller from Heroes of the Wild really called to me (Heroes of the Wild is not yet added to the additional resources, and as the Wild Caller modifies base form, it is not Unchained compatible).

Hypothetically, if my summoner were lvl2 (say by adding some backlogged DM credits or power running some low level adventures), and the deadline is set at April 29th, could I then use retraining rules to train into Wild Caller (provided it becomes legal for play when the splat book is made legal)?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
Mulgar wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Dorothy Lindman wrote:

Question on summoners and the new April 29th date:

The blog post said "effective immediately" summoners from ACG were no longer legal. However, the date was then changed from "today" to April 29th.

Does this mean that pre-level 2 summoners from ACG can still be played until April 29th?

We have three tier 1-5 tables starting in 3 hours, and it would be nice to get a clarification before then.

It means no new summoners from ACG may be created the minute the blog went live.
So I wonder who else saw this coming? And recently made a summoner? Like I did.....
Yeah... I saw this comming to, but I will switch to the new summoner so it doesn't affect me.

I saw it coming but having already played my Summoner through the Seeker retirement arc, I've decided that I had already worked playing a Summoner out of my system.

4/5

No, you have to play at level 2 to be grandfathered.

1/5

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm disappointed and more than a little surprised to see fractional BAB did not make it in. They seem like a lightweight change that would encourage more variety in character creation through multiclassing.

Same goes for VMC. But that is not surprising.

1/5 Venture-Captain, Germany–Hannover aka Hayato Ken

Sebastian Hirsch wrote:

So, what about all those summoner evolutions that were printed outside of the APG? Are they still PFS legal for the unchained summoner?

What about other classes that can take class features from other classes like:

Ninja Trick wrote:
Rogue Talent: The ninja can select a rogue talent in place of a ninja trick. The ninja cannot select a rogue talent that has the same name as a ninja trick. The ninja can select this talent multiple times.

Ninja trick is called out on page 24 and if i got this right, the unchained rogue can take any ninja trick that doesn´t need ki.

You could totaly give your unchained vexing dodger rogue a climb speed this way at level 4.

Silver Crusade 3/5

Michael Brock wrote:
thistledown wrote:
I'm upset that they're requiring the changes before the book is available to purchase, and there was no safety period. But I don't have a summoner or plans for one, so I'm not really affected by it. Still kinda a shady move for publishers.
The blog advises April 29. The book and PDF are available to purchase on April 29.

It still would be nice to have the PRD up before the cutoff date.

I am lucky I don't have a game on Wednesday, I will have time to buy the book, read it and digest it before deciding whether my characters are going to retrain their barbarian, and rogue levels. If I play on Thursday at the FLGS, I will have one day to make that decision and to make the changes.

And all of that hinges on the FLGS having a copy of it on Wednesday. If not, then I will order it directly from Paizo and get it sometime next week.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Global Organized Play Coordinator

1 person marked this as a favorite.
The Fox wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
thistledown wrote:
I'm upset that they're requiring the changes before the book is available to purchase, and there was no safety period. But I don't have a summoner or plans for one, so I'm not really affected by it. Still kinda a shady move for publishers.
The blog advises April 29. The book and PDF are available to purchase on April 29.

It still would be nice to have the PRD up before the cutoff date.

I am lucky I don't have a game on Wednesday, I will have time to buy the book, read it and digest it before deciding whether my characters are going to retrain their barbarian, and rogue levels. If I play on Thursday at the FLGS, I will have one day to make that decision and to make the changes.

And all of that hinges on the FLGS having a copy of it on Wednesday. If not, then I will order it directly from Paizo and get it sometime next week.

Please make the request for the PRD to be updated in the correct forum. Updating the PRD doesn't fall under organized play and I don't have any part in the updating of it.

Scarab Sages 1/5

in a similar vein, is Unchained summoner allowed to take evolutions that aren't in Unchained? Like, say, alignment smite from Champions of Purity?


If I played PFS, I'm sure playing such a restricted summoner now instead of, say, anything like the Plant mentioned in this thread earlier or an Eidolon that changes alignment as you do.

Still, glad to see the new Rogue is an option.

3/5

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Blessed be the kindness of grandfather provisions. My twice grandfathered aasimar summoner thanks you ;)

Silver Crusade 5/5

It says "play the character after April 29, 2015." Does that mean we can apply GM credit to a character after April 29 and still have the ability to retrain it to Unchained before we play it next?

For example, I apply GM credit to Barry the Barbarian next Monday. Can I still Unchain him for free the following Friday when I play him?

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

How long is the retrain window open? There is no local PFS play (I have been trying) and the next time I will be able to play is at PaizoCon?

Paizo Employee 5/5 Developer

2 people marked this as a favorite.
UndeadMitch wrote:

It says "play the character after April 29, 2015." Does that mean we can apply GM credit to a character after April 29 and still have the ability to retrain it to Unchained before we play it next?

For example, I apply GM credit to Barry the Barbarian next Monday. Can I still Unchain him for free the following Friday when I play him?

Sure, it's the next time you play the character that is important—much like how applying GM credit to a character doesn't require you to perform all of the leveling up decisions until the next time you play.

2/5

Under the summon monster spell it list the term EXPENSIVE COMPONENT and specifically mentions wish. The wish spell has a ridiculously expensive component. Can a developer give a numerical value for expensive? Only reason I ask is expensive is rather vague and the only thing I can judge is expensive would be the cost of casting wish or higher. I realize this is unrelated to unchained but in a way it is what with the Summoner class being "chained" down, beaten and humiliated publicly.

p.s. I looked all over for an answer to this and got vague unofficial answers. You would think this would have been errata-ed ages ago.

Paizo Employee 5/5 Developer

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Thomas LeBlanc wrote:
How long is the retrain window open? There is no local PFS play (I have been trying) and the next time I will be able to play is at PaizoCon?

The retraining window is open indefinitely until you actually play the character again, so it could be anywhere from a few days to a few years depending on when you break out that character to go Pathfinding again.

Silver Crusade 5/5

Thomas LeBlanc wrote:
How long is the retrain window open? There is no local PFS play (I have been trying) and the next time I will be able to play is at PaizoCon?

I'm pretty sure as long as your character is retrained by the next time you play you're fine. Once you've played your character after April 29, it is locked in to whichever choice you made, to retrain or not.

EDIT: Ninja'd

2nd EDIT: Thanks John, that was how I read it, I just wanted to be sure .

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Benjamin Falk wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:

So, what about all those summoner evolutions that were printed outside of the APG? Are they still PFS legal for the unchained summoner?

What about other classes that can take class features from other classes like:

Ninja Trick wrote:
Rogue Talent: The ninja can select a rogue talent in place of a ninja trick. The ninja cannot select a rogue talent that has the same name as a ninja trick. The ninja can select this talent multiple times.

Ninja trick is called out on page 24 and if i got this right, the unchained rogue can take any ninja trick that doesn´t need ki.

You could totaly give your unchained vexing dodger rogue a climb speed this way at level 4.

It get's complicated the other way round, can a Ninja access unchained rogue tricks via his Rogue Talent trick..

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