Society Unchained

Monday, April 27, 2015

Ever since its announcement nearly a year ago, players and GMs alike have been speculating about what would appear in Pathfinder Unchained. It was only a short step from there to start wondering what would appear in Pathfinder Society Organized Play. We started exploring this same question early in the book's production, and even then it was clear that some sections would not be a good fit for the campaign, others would absolutely play a role, and many others would require closer study. With the generous assistance of the Pathfinder Design Team and numerous volunteers, we were able to weigh the pros and cons and finalize what our Pathfinders might see in the field.

We'll start by discussing some of the sub-systems that likely come as no surprise to anyone, largely because they would require massive character rebuilds, severely impact how the game works for someone who just has the Core Rulebook, or require us to scrap the current XP system. Much of Chapter 3 (Gameplay) falls into this category; removing alignment, ditching iterative attacks, altering poison, heavy revising action economy, and introducing wound thresholds would invalidate considerable chunks of existing scenarios and possibly wreck how many of our existing characters function. Other features reference gameplay elements that simply don't appear in the organized play campaign, so dynamic item creation, alternate profession rules, fractional base bonuses, and staggered advancement are not a good fit. As intriguing as the many new skill options look, imposing consolidated skills, grouped skills, or background skills would just be too disruptive for a campaign in its seventh year. The same is true for many of the magic systems, including simplified spellcasting, spell alterations, automatic bonus progressions, and innate item bonuses.


Illustration by Tomasz Chistowski

Several other systems were not so cut and dry. We discussed the stamina pool system for quite a while before deciding not to include it; it is an extensive section that we may revisit in the future, but at this time it is not available in the campaign. We came to a similar conclusion for variant multiclassing. We are adding the Signature Skill feat for exclusive use by the unchained rogue—which I suppose spoils a later surprise. John is very excited to include esoteric components and scaling items on a few Chronicle sheets, but these items are not available for purchase otherwise.

Still, we imagine Chapter 1 (Classes) is the topic everyone is waiting for, and we have seen many of you making fairly accurate predictions. All four Pathfinder Unchained classes—barbarian, monk, rogue, and summoner—will be legal for use in Pathfinder Society Organized Play. The unchained barbarian, monk, and rogue are available in addition to the versions that appear in the Core Rulebook; as noted on page 8 of Pathfinder Unchained, "These classes can be used alongside their original counterparts (although individual characters must use one version or the other exclusively)."

In fact, we're so excited about these classes that we're announcing a one-time limited rebuild to anyone with one or more levels in these classes, allowing those characters to switch any levels in the four classes to their unchained version at no cost. This includes the automatic retraining of any rage powers or rogue talents, as well as the free retraining and selling at full cost of any feats, items, and other character options that no long function properly due to the unchained classes features. For example, a rogue automatically gains the ability to add her Dexterity bonus to damage, so she could sell back her +1 agile rapier at full price. Likewise, a barbarian with the Raging Vitality feat would no longer benefit from its increased Constitution bonus, so she could retrain that feat for free. Much like when we have offered free faction changes in the past, you'll need to take advantage of this opportunity before you play the character after April 29, 2015.

You may notice that we did not say the unchained summoner would be available alongside its Advanced Player's Guide counterpart. Effective immediately, the Advanced Player's Guide summoner is no longer available in the organized play campaign, and the unchained summoner is its legal replacement. However, we recognize that someone who already has a summoner (and the book to play it) should not be punished for this change. Therefore, if you have a character with levels in the summoner class, and you have played the character at least once at level 2 or higher, you get to keep your summoner as is; you may also continue to gain levels in the summoner class. Any character gaining a level in summoner for the first time must use the unchained summoner, and anyone character still within the 1st-level window of free rebuilding must also use the unchained summoner.

As a final note, we want to advise folks about archetype and other features' compatibility for the unchained classes for the organized play campaign.

  • The unchained barbarian qualifies for any archetype that does not modify how the rage class feature operates (such as the urban barbarian archetype), and she is limited to any barbarian rage power that appears in Chapter 1 (including the rage powers on page 13)
  • The unchained monk does not qualify for any archetypes, save those in future publications that specifically cite their compatibility with the unchained monk class.
  • The unchained rogue qualifies for all existing rogue archetypes, but she is limited to any rogue talents listed in Chapter 1 (including the sidebar on page 24).
  • The unchained summoner qualifies for all existing summoner archetypes, save those that modify the eidolon's type or base form.

The Pathfinder Society Team

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Paizo Employee 5/5 Designer

Dorothy Lindman wrote:

Question on summoners and the new April 29th date:

The blog post said "effective immediately" summoners from ACG were no longer legal. However, the date was then changed from "today" to April 29th.

Does this mean that pre-level 2 summoners from ACG can still be played until April 29th?

We have three tier 1-5 tables starting in 3 hours, and it would be nice to get a clarification before then.

John clarified upthread a bit that they cannot.

Shadow Lodge

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Dorothy Lindman wrote:

Question on summoners and the new April 29th date:

The blog post said "effective immediately" summoners from ACG were no longer legal. However, the date was then changed from "today" to April 29th.

Does this mean that pre-level 2 summoners from ACG can still be played until April 29th?

We have three tier 1-5 tables starting in 3 hours, and it would be nice to get a clarification before then.

From John earlier in the thread:

John Compton wrote:
If you have an existing summoner, you could by the pending updated date play his again before deciding on the rebuild in two days. If you have a GM credit "blob," there is no way you could create an Advanced Player's Guide version to play, as that version has been made illegal immediately, no matter when the rebuild window begins.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Global Organized Play Coordinator

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Dorothy Lindman wrote:

Question on summoners and the new April 29th date:

The blog post said "effective immediately" summoners from ACG were no longer legal. However, the date was then changed from "today" to April 29th.

Does this mean that pre-level 2 summoners from ACG can still be played until April 29th?

We have three tier 1-5 tables starting in 3 hours, and it would be nice to get a clarification before then.

It means no new summoners from ACG may be created the minute the blog went live.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Dorothy Lindman wrote:

Question on summoners and the new April 29th date:

The blog post said "effective immediately" summoners from ACG were no longer legal. However, the date was then changed from "today" to April 29th.

Does this mean that pre-level 2 summoners from ACG can still be played until April 29th?

We have three tier 1-5 tables starting in 3 hours, and it would be nice to get a clarification before then.

John said upthread that it'd be moved to the street date. 29th I think.

Edit: knew I'd get ninja'd!

Grand Lodge 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Mrh. So that's 1 character illegal until I can get the hardcover.

Any idea on when the hardcovers arrive in stores in the Netherlands?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Dorothy Lindman wrote:

Question on summoners and the new April 29th date:

The blog post said "effective immediately" summoners from ACG were no longer legal. However, the date was then changed from "today" to April 29th.

Does this mean that pre-level 2 summoners from ACG can still be played until April 29th?

We have three tier 1-5 tables starting in 3 hours, and it would be nice to get a clarification before then.

"Effective immediately" means that the ship has sailed for Summoners that have not been created before today.

3/5 Venture-Agent, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka TechGnosis

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Dorothy Lindman wrote:

Question on summoners and the new April 29th date:

The blog post said "effective immediately" summoners from ACG were no longer legal. However, the date was then changed from "today" to April 29th.

Does this mean that pre-level 2 summoners from ACG can still be played until April 29th?

We have three tier 1-5 tables starting in 3 hours, and it would be nice to get a clarification before then.

Same(ish),

We have a (freshly) level 2 summoner (APG) playing with us on Wednesday. He doesn't get paid until the first (Friday), does this mean we have to make him play a pre-made since by PFS rules you cant play a character if you dont have the book (Hes also super-unhappy since he just bought APG so he COULD play a summoner)? A little more warning / padding would have been nice.

On a semi-related note, when is Additional Resources going to be updated to reflect the legality (or non-legality) of Unchained?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Ascalaphus wrote:
Dorothy Lindman wrote:

Question on summoners and the new April 29th date:

The blog post said "effective immediately" summoners from ACG were no longer legal. However, the date was then changed from "today" to April 29th.

Does this mean that pre-level 2 summoners from ACG can still be played until April 29th?

We have three tier 1-5 tables starting in 3 hours, and it would be nice to get a clarification before then.

No, the change to summoners happened immediately:

Unless they've already been created, and then theyre grandfathered in if they are level 2 or higher.

If they're level one then you need to convert them by the 29th.

If you make a new summoner today, it has to be an unchained summoner.

Silver Crusade

Damanta: I saw it in store on Saturday in Germany, so I think it should be in the Netherlands already.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Additional resources should be updated Wednesday,

Silver Crusade

Nefreet wrote:
John Compton wrote:
If you have an existing summoner, you could by the pending updated date play his again before deciding on the rebuild in two days. If you have a GM credit "blob," there is no way you could create an Advanced Player's Guide version to play, as that version has been made illegal immediately, no matter when the rebuild window begins.

Got it.

I really hope I can still pull off the same build =\

I feel your pain. Have a summoner I played at first level, but has only received GM credit since. Unfortunately I can't rebuild into an Unchained summoner, as there's no genie eidolon. I was going for the genie binder concept.

Going to shelve the character for now and see if the upcoming Monster Summoner Player's Companion will retify this surprising oversight.

(And before anyone mentions it, div won't work due to alignment.)

Grand Lodge

If APG summoner has played before the blog post as a level 2 or higher, it can stay and level as an APG Summoner.

You can play an existing level 2 or higher APG summoner(if it played as 2nd level before the blog post) til the 29th, before deciding to opt into a full rebuild.

The first time you play after April 29th, you are locked into whichever mode you played that game as.


Blackbot wrote:
So, I haven't read the Unchained book yet. But this means that the Unchained rogue is just plain better than the old rogue and a new player who uses the core rules effectively plays a worse version?

That is a subjective statement but at first glance, it's kind of true for the rogue. (John even forgot that the Unchained Rogue's sneak attack works against anything short of total concealment, so you can sneak attack targets with blur or in fog now) I see little reason to play a core rogue if you have access to unchained.

EXCEPT if you want some obscure Rogue Talent that was not reprinted in the Unchained book (such as Sacred Sneak for example, which I do like on my rogue). You'd have to assess if those talents are worth the rebuild or not.


I want to give credit to the developers in implementing Pathfinder Unchained. The community, especially the PFS posters here, seem positive on adopting these changes. I hope this gives support to future books with a similar scope of Unchained, such as revamping some of the other classes in the same style, like Ranger, Bard, or Gunslinger. Not necessarily to nerf, just give more alternatives to implementing the core of the class as a whole. More options are a great thing!

4/5 5/5 Venture-Agent, Minnesota—St. Louis Park aka BretI

I'm a little disappointed that background skills weren't adopted. I think the main thing it would do for society play is make day job rolls common. I don't see that as disruptive. There is a problem with Bards getting perform as background skills, but that could be handled.

I couldn't tell if fractional BAB/saves are going to be allowed for PFS. Is this what they meant by fractional base bonuses?

If you have a multi-class unchained rogue 2 / something else 3 would you be able to use a feat for Signature Skill?

Looks like I will hold off playing two of my characters until I've had a chance to go through the rules in the new book. I expect that I will use the free rebuild on one and not the other.

Silver Crusade

Carlos Robledo wrote:
Blackbot wrote:
So, I haven't read the Unchained book yet. But this means that the Unchained rogue is just plain better than the old rogue and a new player who uses the core rules effectively plays a worse version?

That is a subjective statement but at first glance, it's kind of true for the rogue. (John even forgot that the Unchained Rogue's sneak attack works against anything short of total concealment, so you can sneak attack targets with blur or in fog now) I see little reason to play a core rogue if you have access to unchained.

EXCEPT if you want some obscure Rogue Talent that was not reprinted in the Unchained book (such as Sacred Sneak for example, which I do like on my rogue). You'd have to assess if those talents are worth the rebuild or not.

Obscure Rogue Talents from anything besides the Core Rules and maybe the APG aren't really that relevant to new players. Shame.

Again, not b+@#!ing. I like that Paizo tries to make the classes more valuable and adresses balancing issues, I really do. But the first time a rogue and an unchained rogue sit at the same table and notice one of them is just plain better...:/

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
BretI wrote:

I'm a little disappointed that background skills weren't adopted. I think the main thing it would do for society play is make day job rolls common. I don't see that as disruptive. There is a problem with Bards getting perform as background skills, but that could be handled.

I couldn't tell if fractional BAB/saves are going to be allowed for PFS. Is this what they meant by fractional base bonuses?

You'll find out on Wednesday. If it's not listed as specifically being allowed, then it's forbidden.

The Exchange 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Mediterranean aka Wintergreen

So with the unchained barbarian's rage just giving a flat bonus to all melee and thrown weapon damage, are we going to see fewer two-handed weapon wielding barbarians and more two-weapon fighting barbarians?

Would the retrain allow you to change from a greatsword using barbarian to a two weapon user?

4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Seattle aka Gwen Smith

TechGnosis wrote:
Dorothy Lindman wrote:

Question on summoners and the new April 29th date:

The blog post said "effective immediately" summoners from ACG were no longer legal. However, the date was then changed from "today" to April 29th.

Does this mean that pre-level 2 summoners from ACG can still be played until April 29th?

We have three tier 1-5 tables starting in 3 hours, and it would be nice to get a clarification before then.

Same(ish),

We have a (freshly) level 2 summoner (APG) playing with us on Wednesday. He doesn't get paid until the first (Friday), does this mean we have to make him play a pre-made since by PFS rules you cant play a character if you dont have the book (Hes also super-unhappy since he just bought APG so he COULD play a summoner)? A little more warning / padding would have been nice.

On a semi-related note, when is Additional Resources going to be updated to reflect the legality (or non-legality) of Unchained?

That is exactly the scenario I'm concerned about.

Even if the summoner already has 1-2 chronicles on him, and regardless of whether the player plans to rebuild it once the new book comes out, he can't play that character tonight, no matter what?

(We have a bunch of new players that come on Mondays, so it's not impossible we will see this. Just trying to make sure we have an answer before we start.)

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Starfinder Superscriber
John Compton wrote:
Michael Hallet wrote:

"you'll need to take advantage of this opportunity before you play the character after April 27, 2015."

What about characters that are currently in a pbp game that started before April 27 but will finish after? Once we finish up the game do we still have an opportunity to rebuild them?

Finish up your game as normal. After that, apply the rebuild if desired. Please do not rebuild partway through a game.

Can we assume the same thing for a 1st-level Summoner currently in a PbP? That is, play the APG Summoner as is to the end of the game, then rebuild?

Liberty's Edge 5/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Dorothy Lindman wrote:
TechGnosis wrote:
Dorothy Lindman wrote:

Question on summoners and the new April 29th date:

The blog post said "effective immediately" summoners from ACG were no longer legal. However, the date was then changed from "today" to April 29th.

Does this mean that pre-level 2 summoners from ACG can still be played until April 29th?

We have three tier 1-5 tables starting in 3 hours, and it would be nice to get a clarification before then.

Same(ish),

We have a (freshly) level 2 summoner (APG) playing with us on Wednesday. He doesn't get paid until the first (Friday), does this mean we have to make him play a pre-made since by PFS rules you cant play a character if you dont have the book (Hes also super-unhappy since he just bought APG so he COULD play a summoner)? A little more warning / padding would have been nice.

On a semi-related note, when is Additional Resources going to be updated to reflect the legality (or non-legality) of Unchained?

That is exactly the scenario I'm concerned about.

Even if the summoner already has 1-2 chronicles on him, and regardless of whether the player plans to rebuild it once the new book comes out, he can't play that character tonight, no matter what?

(We have a bunch of new players that come on Mondays, so it's not impossible we will see this. Just trying to make sure we have an answer before we start.)

My opinion is this. If they already have chronicles, and are less than 3 XP, then let them play as is. As long as playing doesn't take them into grandfather territory, then it should be ok.

Once the book is out, though, they need to rebuild into something else, or rebuild into the Unchained summoner.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Dorothy Lindman wrote:
TechGnosis wrote:
Dorothy Lindman wrote:

Question on summoners and the new April 29th date:

The blog post said "effective immediately" summoners from ACG were no longer legal. However, the date was then changed from "today" to April 29th.

Does this mean that pre-level 2 summoners from ACG can still be played until April 29th?

We have three tier 1-5 tables starting in 3 hours, and it would be nice to get a clarification before then.

Same(ish),

We have a (freshly) level 2 summoner (APG) playing with us on Wednesday. He doesn't get paid until the first (Friday), does this mean we have to make him play a pre-made since by PFS rules you cant play a character if you dont have the book (Hes also super-unhappy since he just bought APG so he COULD play a summoner)? A little more warning / padding would have been nice.

On a semi-related note, when is Additional Resources going to be updated to reflect the legality (or non-legality) of Unchained?

That is exactly the scenario I'm concerned about.

Even if the summoner already has 1-2 chronicles on him, and regardless of whether the player plans to rebuild it once the new book comes out, he can't play that character tonight, no matter what?

(We have a bunch of new players that come on Mondays, so it's not impossible we will see this. Just trying to make sure we have an answer before we start.)

When it comes to missing books, there has never been a need to be draconian about it. If you think the player is acting in good faith, you're not forbidden to let him slide for one session. You should have the text available YOURSELF in that case, so you can adjudicate if needed.

4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Seattle aka Gwen Smith

pH unbalanced wrote:
Dorothy Lindman wrote:

Question on summoners and the new April 29th date:

The blog post said "effective immediately" summoners from ACG were no longer legal. However, the date was then changed from "today" to April 29th.

Does this mean that pre-level 2 summoners from ACG can still be played until April 29th?

We have three tier 1-5 tables starting in 3 hours, and it would be nice to get a clarification before then.

From John earlier in the thread:

John Compton wrote:
If you have an existing summoner, you could by the pending updated date play his again before deciding on the rebuild in two days. If you have a GM credit "blob," there is no way you could create an Advanced Player's Guide version to play, as that version has been made illegal immediately, no matter when the rebuild window begins.

Sorry--I'm being dense from the sinus medication, but it sounds like what John said and what people said that John said are in contradiction.

Here's my current understanding of the breakdown:
1) No new APG summoners may be created, period.
2) An APG summoner already played at level 2 is grandfathered in (but can still take advantage of the rebuild if they want).
3) An APG summoner not yet played at level 2 (i.e., between 1 and 3 XP) can be played until April 29th but will have to be rebuilt after that.

Corner case:
If #3 is a correct statement, can a 3 XP summoner get grandfathered in if they get their 4th XP before April 29th? I believe the answer is "no".

Grand Lodge

#3 is incorrect.

Though Andrew suggested sorta letting it slide since this is so sudden.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Dorothy Lindman wrote:
pH unbalanced wrote:
Dorothy Lindman wrote:

Question on summoners and the new April 29th date:

The blog post said "effective immediately" summoners from ACG were no longer legal. However, the date was then changed from "today" to April 29th.

Does this mean that pre-level 2 summoners from ACG can still be played until April 29th?

We have three tier 1-5 tables starting in 3 hours, and it would be nice to get a clarification before then.

From John earlier in the thread:

John Compton wrote:
If you have an existing summoner, you could by the pending updated date play his again before deciding on the rebuild in two days. If you have a GM credit "blob," there is no way you could create an Advanced Player's Guide version to play, as that version has been made illegal immediately, no matter when the rebuild window begins.

Sorry--I'm being dense from the sinus medication, but it sounds like what John said and what people said that John said are in contradiction.

Here's my current understanding of the breakdown:
1) No new APG summoners may be created, period.
2) An APG summoner already played at level 2 is grandfathered in (but can still take advantage of the rebuild if they want).
3) An APG summoner not yet played at level 2 (i.e., between 1 and 3 XP) can be played until April 29th but will have to be rebuilt after that.

Corner case:
If #3 is a correct statement, can a 3 XP summoner get grandfathered in if they get their 4th XP before April 29th? I believe the answer is "no".

I believe you are correct Dorothy.

And if they get their 4th, 5th, 6th or even 7th XP prior to the 29th. Then that shouldn't stop you from allowing the person to play that character tonight. Just inform them, that their 3XP character must be rebuilt on the 29th with the Unchained book. And if they don't want to or can't buy the Unchained book (or have no intention to), and playing would put them out of the level 1 rebuild, then tell them they can't play the character.

4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Tennessee—Memphis aka Mulgar

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Michael Brock wrote:
Dorothy Lindman wrote:

Question on summoners and the new April 29th date:

The blog post said "effective immediately" summoners from ACG were no longer legal. However, the date was then changed from "today" to April 29th.

Does this mean that pre-level 2 summoners from ACG can still be played until April 29th?

We have three tier 1-5 tables starting in 3 hours, and it would be nice to get a clarification before then.

It means no new summoners from ACG may be created the minute the blog went live.

So I wonder who else saw this coming? And recently made a summoner? Like I did.....

Shadow Lodge

Dorothy Lindman wrote:
pH unbalanced wrote:
Dorothy Lindman wrote:

Question on summoners and the new April 29th date:

The blog post said "effective immediately" summoners from ACG were no longer legal. However, the date was then changed from "today" to April 29th.

Does this mean that pre-level 2 summoners from ACG can still be played until April 29th?

We have three tier 1-5 tables starting in 3 hours, and it would be nice to get a clarification before then.

From John earlier in the thread:

John Compton wrote:
If you have an existing summoner, you could by the pending updated date play his again before deciding on the rebuild in two days. If you have a GM credit "blob," there is no way you could create an Advanced Player's Guide version to play, as that version has been made illegal immediately, no matter when the rebuild window begins.

Sorry--I'm being dense from the sinus medication, but it sounds like what John said and what people said that John said are in contradiction.

Here's my current understanding of the breakdown:
1) No new APG summoners may be created, period.
2) An APG summoner already played at level 2 is grandfathered in (but can still take advantage of the rebuild if they want).
3) An APG summoner not yet played at level 2 (i.e., between 1 and 3 XP) can be played until April 29th but will have to be rebuilt after that.

Corner case:
If #3 is a correct statement, can a 3 XP summoner get grandfathered in if they get their 4th XP before April 29th? I believe the answer is "no".

#3 is incorrect, APG summoners are immediately illegal unless they have been played at second level or higher, a summoner that has not been played at level 2 or higher is no longer able to play as an APG summoner period. The second quote means that if an APG summoner has been played at level 2 or higher when the blog went live they can choose to rebuild on the 29th rather then the next time played, those who have not been played at second level or higher have to rebuild and cannot be played as APG summoners even before the 29th.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Mulgar wrote:
So I wonder who else saw this coming? And recently made a summoner? Like I did.....

I know of one, but he didn't make the cutoff.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 Venture-Captain, Texas—San Antonio aka Dragnmoon

So the Unchained Rogues cannot use Talents from the Campaign/Companion books since they are not reprinted in the Unchained book?


There goes the summoner I had built but hadn't yet managed to get to a table here (backwater with somewhat limited PFS opportunities). I thought I was finally going to get to use it - and living at the arse end of the world it will be a while before I can get my hands on the book for the new rules.
I was so looking forward to having an intentionally mechanically poor build and not get booted from the table for it - it seemed to be the use of APG summoners.

Also, changing legality before the new book is available to the plebs is a little harsh. Just saying.

[edited to sounded slightly less whingy a whinge]

4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Tennessee—Memphis aka Mulgar

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Mighty Squash wrote:

There goes the summoner I had built but hadn't yet managed to get to a table here (backwater with somewhat limited PFS opportunities). I thought I was finally going to get to use it - and living at the arse end of the world it will be a while before I can get my hands on the book for the new rules.

I was so looking forward to having an intentionally mechanically poor build and not get booted from the table for it - it seemed to be the use of APG summoners.

It helps that my wife and kids play PFS, so we can make a legal table at our whim.

Dark Archive

The powers that be seem to have a strong fear or hatred of the thought of players flooding over with last minute APG Summoners.

I am glad they drew a line and are allowing some established ones remain. I predict they will all be played at slow xp at least from level 3 and on to savor the old style. Though, disallowing GM babies not actually played yet, or needing to be at least level 2 with no notice at all, if it was effective at post and not even street date, seems to indicate a level of regret or outright hatred unlike any I have seen before.

As summoners typically get their spells at nearly the same character level if not spell level, I never saw how that was such a big deal, especially since PFS has rules listing the order of classes making scrolls and potions that can be purchased, and MIC is banned. I also don't understand how people hate the eidolon so much while I next to never see complaints about druid/hunter companions.

Shadow Lodge

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Steven Lau wrote:
So the Unchained Rogues cannot use Talents from the Campaign/Companion books since they are not reprinted in the Unchained book?

Correct.

Shadow Lodge

13 people marked this as a favorite.
Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Raymond Lambert wrote:
The powers that be seem to have a strong fear or hatred of the thought of players flooding over with last minute APG Summoners.

For which we can thank all the people who abused the Aasimar/Tiefling grandfathering rules last year. They made sure that wouldn't happen again.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 Venture-Captain, Texas—San Antonio aka Dragnmoon

1 person marked this as a favorite.
pH unbalanced wrote:
Steven Lau wrote:
So the Unchained Rogues cannot use Talents from the Campaign/Companion books since they are not reprinted in the Unchained book?
Correct.

That kind of sucks since they have such great flavor for Golarion.


Raymond Lambert wrote:
I also don't understand how people hate the eidolon so much while I next to never see complaints about druid/hunter companions.

Eidolons > Animal Companions. No contest.

Companions are just a lesser evil between the two.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Raymond Lambert wrote:
...I next to never see complaints about druid/hunter companions.

I see them all the time.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Steven Lau wrote:
pH unbalanced wrote:
Steven Lau wrote:
So the Unchained Rogues cannot use Talents from the Campaign/Companion books since they are not reprinted in the Unchained book?
Correct.
That kind of sucks since they have such great flavor for Golarion.

Yup.

Dark Archive

I am not sure that the Aasimar / Tiefling was really a problem. I think it was cool that they opened them up for a while and gave i think about a month notice. if they were really a problem, why allow them as boon races again? maybe the real problem was the experiment temporarily allowing those race SLA to qualify for prerequisite?

4/5

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Raymond Lambert wrote:

The powers that be seem to have a strong fear or hatred of the thought of players flooding over with last minute APG Summoners.

I am glad they drew a line and are allowing some established ones remain. I predict they will all be played at slow xp at least from level 3 and on to savor the old style. Though, disallowing GM babies not actually played yet, or needing to be at least level 2 with no notice at all, if it was effective at post and not even street date, seems to indicate a level of regret or outright hatred unlike any I have seen before.

As summoners typically get their spells at nearly the same character level if not spell level, I never saw how that was such a big deal, especially since PFS has rules listing the order of classes making scrolls and potions that can be purchased, and MIC is banned. I also don't understand how people hate the eidolon so much while I next to never see complaints about druid/hunter companions.

Druids are vilified in droves. Both options weren't lacking enmity & scorn.


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TOZ wrote:
Mulgar wrote:
So I wonder who else saw this coming? And recently made a summoner? Like I did.....
I know of one, but he didn't make the cutoff.

I suspected something like this was coming. I powerleveled mine to level three just to be on the safe side. I probably won't play it very much though. I just like having something that isn't an option anymore. (What a weird hobby, I'm collecting characters... XD)

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

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Raymond Lambert wrote:
I am not sure that the Aasimar / Tiefling was really a problem.

Yeah, the planetouched grandfathering window really was a problem.

4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Tennessee—Memphis aka Mulgar

Raymond Lambert wrote:
I am not sure that the Aasimar / Tiefling was really a problem. I think it was cool that they opened them up for a while and gave i think about a month notice. if they were really a problem, why allow them as boon races again? maybe the real problem was the experiment temporarily allowing those race SLA to qualify for prerequisite?

As usual the rotten apples spoiled the bunch. Some people cheese spammed the grandfather clause....

So yeah, it stinks. Now you gotta try and guess the cutoff if you think a change is coming. I was lucky, I thought it was gonna be no notice and tougher than last time. So I did get to play my summoner at 2nd once, and have him scheduled for again this week. Sooooo, I got lucky.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Is there an Undead-themed option for the new Summoner?

My GM credit blob was my Dhampir. His Eidolon was built as a Skeletal Champion.

If there's nothing Undead-themed, I suppose I can just wait and see how the new Spiritualist turns out.

Paizo Employee 5/5 Designer

Nefreet wrote:

Is there an Undead-themed option for the new Summoner?

My GM credit blob was my Dhampir. His Eidolon was built as a Skeletal Champion.

If there's nothing Undead-themed, I suppose I can just wait and see how the new Spiritualist turns out.

Daemon seems like a good match, but it's surely also true that spiritualist is very spirit-y.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Well, I was RPing him (or, planning to) as a pure Necromancer.

Maybe Blackblooded Oracle of Bones, then. That was my backup option originally.

"Spirity" was definitely not his motivation.

Too bad.

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Northwest aka WalterGM

Similar train of thought as Nefreet

I've been wanting to make a summoner with a displacer beast. What would you recommend as a good subtype for that? I haven't familiarized myself with Unchained yet.

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