Unless you guys do or say something to change the attitude and lower it there is no need to make further Diplomacy rolls once you have maxed them out at helpful.
Insulting them, telling them a lie, or some other action might call for a social interact roll, but since you're accomplished moving him to helpful, you don't need to roll further diplomacy checks.
Basically Social Combat is over... and you guys achieved your goal here!
Exploration Mode
Rule
While encounters use rounds for combat, exploration is more free form. The GM determines the flow of time, as you could be traveling by horseback across craggy highlands, negotiating with merchants, or delving in a dungeon in search of danger and treasure. Exploration lacks the immediate danger of encounter mode, but it offers its own challenges.
Much of exploration mode involves movement and roleplaying. You might be traveling from one town to another, chatting with a couple of merchants in an outpost along the way, or maybe having a terse conversation with the watchful city guards at your destination. Instead of measuring your rate of movement in 5-foot squares every round, you measure it in feet or miles per minute, hour, or day, using your travel speed. Rather than deciding on each action every turn, you’ll engage in an exploration activity, and you’ll typically spend some time every day resting and making your daily preparations.
Actions and Reactions: Though exploration isn’t broken into rounds, exploration activities assume the PCs are spending part of their time using actions, such as Seeking or Interacting. If they have specific actions they want to use, they should ask; you can decide whether the actions apply and whether to switch to encounter mode for greater detail. PCs can use any relevant reactions that come up during exploration mode.
So, to answer your question... almost any exploration activity can be used for this. All of you are seeking this pool. Most are at 1/2 speed, but it is difficult to move faster than that on this trail anyway. You can use hustle... but you'll likely miss everything. Again, there is no timer on this... There is a list of available Exploration activities in both the Player CORE, and the GM Core... but as an example.
* Avoid Notice: You are moving from tree to tree trying to stay out of sight.
* Defend: Expecting trouble you have your shield raised (Or as a house rule your weapon raised), as you explore.
* Detect Magic... Is this a magical pool?
* Follow the expert: If you have someone really good at Survival, Nature, or a applicable Lore skill, this gives those who follow a bonus to rolls. NOTE: The PC you follow must be at least an expert in the skill.
* Investigate: You can use RK rolls to notice things. Wait this area seems a bit boggy, maybe the pool is this way.
* Scout: I'm going to look out ahead for danger (+1 to initiative for everybody.
* Search: Use Perception to look for hidden things.
* Cover Tracks: Ensure that nobody is trying to follow you (Survival).
* Sense Direction: Let's keep heading Northeast (Survival).
* Track: Find and follow tracks. (Survival) Let's follow these wild boar tracks they often lead to water sources.
So there is no "Find hidden pool" activity, you just state what you character is concentrating on as they explore.
@ Brennus: You have to pick one or the other. Either you trying to stay hidden or you're trying to scout ahead. This isn't as critical as something like a skill test... it's just a general overview of how you are acting since you're not in encounter mode.
Also Looks like we've lost a cleric. If any of you know someone who might fit in and would like to create a cleric, please feel free to invite them. Otherwise, we'll move forward without one.
I must have reset my cookies and need to be let into owlbear again.
Remember all. If you need to be let into OBR you need to let me know on Discord... as it notifies me when there is a message. Does everyone have access to the Discord Channel?
Also, Scout doesn't allow you to make perception rolls in Exploration mode. That is the Search action. Scout only gives everyone a +1 to initiative rolls... so I'll disregard that nat 1. If you take a "Seek" action outside exploration it allows a perception roll.
I know it seems a bit flawed, but with the 3-action economy there aren't many freebies.
So just a reminder that there are no buffing or preparatory actions in PF2e. Everyone starts from scratch when the encounter begins. Might not seem right... but that is the way the balance of the system works. Remember the Monsters can't ambush, prepare, or surprise you either. So, there are two choices here.
The exploration mode rules are designed to keep the party from spamming rolls... ie You come to an intersection in the corridor. Player 1 I make a Perception roll, (Rolls a two), Player 2 I make a Perception roll... and so on. Everyone is doing something until they enter encounter or downtime mode.
NOTE: Hazards are the exception to this rule. If there is a hazard, I make a secret perception roll based upon your proficiency in Perception. If the Hazzard is standard, I automatically make these rolls for you. If you are "Trained" but the Hazard is "Expert" then you need to be using the "Search" Exploration to get a roll or take the "Seek" action in encounter mode.
Telurion either switched his Exploratory action to "Defend" which would allow him to either have his shield raised, or his weapon ready (House Rule), but the +1 bonus to initiative for scouting is gone, or he drew his weapon therefore sending us into encounter mode... in which case I roll initiative for everyone, and we get things rolling.
Brennus Either switched his Exploratory action to "Search" or we have begun encounter mode with his first action going to be a "Seek" action as one of his three actions. Also, keep in mind it would be a "survival" roll (Track) to interact with any tracks in the vicinity, and a "Nature" roll to determine what they might be. Making Nature rolls in exploration mode is using the investigate action... so in summary Brennus is attempting three exploration mode activities at once. (Search, Avoid Notice, Investigate).
Rail: Still hasn't given me his default exploratory actions either in wilderness or in the dungeon (See Campaign Info Thread).
Caks: Takes inventory and continues in his "Avoid Notice" Exploratory mode.
We've not had encounter mode in a while so unless I hear otherwise, I'm going to forward to initiative roll and get things moving. I'm working under the assumption that the party waited for Rail as Brennus let them know he was coming.
Hmm, I should have made it clear, I was thinking of it as a Search action--Brennus wasn't trying to track or determine what the prints were, just checking for their presence or absence.
SB, I'm not trying to be argumentative but I've said twice that Rail's default exploratory mode is Investigate. Here and here. That holds for wilderness and dungeon.
No problem... and I apologize. It's easy for things to get caught up in the wash. I'll add it to the campaign information now so I won't be confused going forward.
Since you are using the "Investigate" Activity you get a free RK check as part of your exploration activity, so you don't need to take an action to do so unless you're trying to find out something else. That frees up one additional action for you.
Rail. If you sign into Owl Bear Rodeo you can move your own token. No need to download anything, just follow my link, Send me a permission request on Discord. I'll let you in and you can move as you wish.
OK, yeah I've been able to get in I just wasn't sure if we were supposed to move our own token. Will do that now.
I'll review the first round of combat and move things forward when I'm back in the office this afternoon.
I'm going to change my one house rule about allowing the "Defend" Exploration activity to allow you to have a weapon readied as an option to raising a shield. I think it just involves too much conflict.
In the previous combat Telurion said earlier that he had his sword out and was waiting... which to me means he had switched to the Defend action.
I know there is an argument that having your weapon out in a potentially dangerous situation makes sense, and I won't argue that... but for game balance you MUST spend an action at the beginning of the combat to ready your weapon. I understand this gives natural weapons and unarmed strikes an advantage... but that it built into the balance of the game. There are ways to get the Quick Draw Feat and other things, but everyone... enemies and allies has to spend that action. It is a prep action, and those are for the most part not allowed in PF2e.
I know many struggle with the whole "Exploration" mode vs. "Encounter" mode, and it could be debated endlessly, but to summarize. If you are adventuring you are either in Downtime mode (Camp), Exploration mode (not camping or in initiative order, or Encounter mode where the three-action economy is in effect. You don't have to like it, agree with it or argue against in... but I've found that it simply works, and is required to keep the game balanced.
Now I'll jump off my soapbox, and continue the game.
Just a note on reactions... If you have more than one option for reactions, you need to let me know up front if you're planning on using it. For instance, in this combat probably Telurion needs to say something like... "If I get hit, I'll use my Reactive Shield Reaction". Don't want to automatically assume you're going to use it instead of saving your reaction for a Reactive Strike or something else. Also, it's not right to know what your damage is before you make that decision.
You guys are doing a great job coordinating your attacks BTW. One other thing to keep in mind is that mobility is your friend. Making the creature use an action to stand or have to move to hit you is a great option. Use up those actions!!! In this case it's tough because with its aura of mud you can't stick and move, but something to keep in mind. If you move away it has to move if it wants to melee you... but since it moves to you it's not necessary to use a move to reach it. Not always applicable but something to keep in mind.
NOTE: Do you guys want me to recruit a "Healer" type character, or are you good to go with what we've got?
@ Rail,
So just to verify you had (2) Focus points and you've spent (2) Unless you have something I'm not aware of... so you can't cast another Focus Spell (Focus Cantrip is still available), until you restore your focus points.
With you success your Courageous Anthem lasts for (3) rounds correct?
That's correct, he's out of focus points now.
Yes, 3 rounds.
Rail... You're up! I'll move things along if you can't post soon.
We are running identify RAW. In this case the ring is the only item that makes sense, so I'd allow you to roll to identify... just not getting the +2 from Read aura.
Here is the way I rule on RK for identifying magic items. You can try every day, but unless you do something to change the game (speak with someone, research, etc., the DC goes up every day.
Rail intends to go to a library or book store to do research; there have to be enough different arcane libraries in town to be able to check a different one every day, right?
Perhaps if you were anywhere close to a town. Bards Gate is the closest city of any size and it's a three-day journey away.
I'll leave you guys to introduce yourselves to the new PC till Wednesday, as I'll probably be tied up most of the day tomorrow.
As you may have noticed I throw out a bunch of plot hooks, and I'll try to keep them updated. You don't have to follow any of them, but if you find one you like feel free to chase it down. We're not really on a timeline... and you'll probably see them down the line.
You all might want to check the Filthy Lucre (Loot Sheet) now and then. Remember you have holy water, and (4) Heal Wounds Scrolls (Divine or Primal only). Remember the "Trick Magic Item" feat lets you use items not in your spell school.
Happy Thanksgiving to all who celebrate it! I'm very thankful that we seem to have a stable group more concerned with uncovering and creating this story than the nuances of the rules.
A couple of reminders.
* Things will proceed as your normal exploration activities unless you actively change them for the scene.
* Check the Loot log in Campaign info, and feel free to modify if you take anything or add anything.
* Keep an eye on the Plot hooks and Quest logs in the campaign info. If at any time you want to convert one of the hooks to a quest just let me know.
Ah, good reminders there, thank you. And hopefully everyone who celebrated it had a good Thanksgiving!
Brennus is definitely going to ask for his share of gold to be spent on getting a custom raven-sized pack for himself. XD Then he'll be paying more attention to the loot... though he's definitely going to examine that ring again.
If it's not clear, Brennus is insatiably curious about pretty much everything but especially magic.
Actions are such a good resource here I hate to see them not used. Here are a couple of options for what to do if you don't have anything important in mind.
1. Take cover: Even if it's just ducking behind some weeds or something this gives you a +2 to AC. If you're already behind cover this upgrade to Greater cover and a +4 to AC.
2. Everybody should get a shield. Everyone is proficient and adding that AC bonus with the "Raise Shield" action is always useful. (If you're able to wield a shield that is... sorry Brennus.)
3. Aid: This is actually a "Reaction" so keep that in mind if you have other uses for a reaction, but it allows you to do something to assist another character. You can do something like. [b]"I dance and scream to distract the creature and help (Insert Name) hit. This can be an attack roll, performance check, or any other imagined assist.
Normally you state the action and use the reaction when the parameters are met, but in PbP I would say go ahead and make the appropriate roll when you state your triggering action, and I'll either apply it or not.
In this case Brennus could have said I fly up and ruffle my feathers, then make an attack roll, or skill check. Depending on the result you can add a +1, or +2 circumstance bonus to the triggering characters attack. (NOTE: you can also crit fail this check and give it a -1).
4. Move: Reposition yourself so the enemy would have to spend an action to move to you or something else.
5. Recall Knowledge: You can never have too much knowledge, and since these are secret checks, you never know if the knowledge you have been provided is complete or accurate, so it never hurts to have a backup.
@ Caks: You might want to consider getting a short bow. You won't take the penalty to damage from Propulsive... and though I didn't add it this time it has the "Load" action which would also take another action, and the range is better. Here is what you attempted last round.
◆ Stride
◆◆ Ready Action to Strike
◆ Load
◆ Strike with sling.
So (5) Actions.
A more efficient action with a short bow would be.
◆◆ Ready Action to Strike
◆ Strike with Bow.
Wow! I'm just getting my characters confused.
So a better set of actions would be to not stride at all, but (1) Load sling, and (2&3) Prepare action to strike.
Problem is the Ready action itself is (2) Actions so with load you've used 3 actions. Ready is only used to make a (1) Action, or Reaction.
+10 XP for using the gate
+40 XP for Frog encounter (Avoiding is as good as killing sometimes.)
GM question: shield and weapon are considered stowed jnless we take the Defend Exploration Activity, yes?
Just want to make sure I got that correct.
RAW you don't have a weapon or shield ready unless you're using the DEFEND action Actually by rules you DEFEND only lets you have your shield raised, weapon is my house rule.
I've lost players arguing over this ;-)
I like to think it as "Readying a weapon or shield" more than stowing drawing it. If you walked around your neighborhood holding an 8-pound sword I can guarantee it would take you at least 2-seconds to ready it to strike. Also, surprise attacks and ambushing happen VERY seldom if ever in PF2e.
It goes both ways though, so the math equals out. Your enemies have to ready to strike with their weapons as well. If this is critical, I would suggest you find a way to take "Quick Draw" which would be a useless feat if you didn't have to spend an action to ready.
I'll get off my soapbox now... Sorry... one of my pet peeves is arguing this moot point.
No soapbox necessary, I'm fine with however he GM rules. Just wanted to make sure I have it correct.
:)
SB, question about Knowledge/Lore checks.
This part: "He also recalls that these were located close to a much greater ruin of more historical significance." doesn't seem like it would require a Knowledge check? The priest told us "Near the ruined shrines lies a series of catacombs used as burial halls for the followers of Thyr and Muir. Long abandoned, these catacombs are now home to various evil creatures. The complex has come to be known as the Stoneheart Mountain Dungeon. " Any of us should be able to reference old posts and know that information, right?
A Knowledge/Lore check should be about stuff he's remembering that we didn't learn IC, if I understand the concept right. Anything we can consult our notes/old posts for shouldn't require a roll.
I'm asking because it seems weird that he recalls less information than what the entire group should already know.
Very few people have returned from the dungeon with minds intact to report on what might be there. Nobody has tried except for Abysthor in over 10-years. If you can find a copy of the old Dwarven Poem, you might find additional information. I'm not sure what else I can tell you as there are no reliable recent firsthand witnesses. If you hadn't questioned the Priest, this information would now be revealed. There has to be more knowledge available in order to uncover more knowledge. Perhaps a RK: Religion might reveal something about CURRENT burial traditions, but not sure if that would really help.
Your roll also did reveal that this is a normal layout for the worship of Thyr and Muir.
If you come to a certain area with symbols or creatures perhaps another knowledge check would be in order, but a general question is kind of like... Tell me about Area 51... :-)
A little info about finding Traps (Hazzards) with Detect Magic. In a word... you usually can't. Most hazards have a minimum trained Stealth roll, and Detect Magic only tells you if something is magical in a 30' radius... so you would still need to search for the hazard even if you knew there was something magical here. Earlier editions of d20 made magical traps insignificant as you had an automatic trap detector. PF2e isn't like that.
Because of Brennus's Psychic focus I'm allowing him to narrow it down a bit but at the moment nobody knows exactly what / where the trap is, just the general but a bit more precise than 30' normally allowed.
As far as Caks disarming... it is possible, but someone needs to find it first.
Since this is our first experience with these (I had to watch a lot of YouTube videos to figure this out). I'll just tell you that these are Glyphs of Warding created by those who desecrated the shrines not the original occupants.
Yeah, my impression from the phrasing "you determine the main location of magic within any magical hazard in the emanation (with the normal restrictions on detecting illusions). This typically manifests as an alteration to your vision, such as seeing a soft aura around the creature or hazard." from the Infinite Eye specials is that Brennus can tell "Hey, there's a magical hazard of some sort on that object" but nothing more specific than that.
Brennus is kind of absurdly specialized in detect magic, both his sorcerer bloodline and his psychic conscious mind give it to him as a cantrip and then he also has the Sense Magic feat... XD It's like he really, really wants to find and study weird magic.
If you hadn't questioned the Priest, this information would now be revealed. There has to be more knowledge available in order to uncover more knowledge. Perhaps a RK: Religion might reveal something about CURRENT burial traditions, but not sure if that would really help.
Ah, so this is information that could have been revealed if we hadn't already gotten it earlier. That makes sense. I wasn't asking for more, it just seemed like a weird result in the face of what we already knew. But if it's what we could have gotten if we didn't already know it that makes sense.
Your roll also did reveal that this is a normal layout for the worship of Thyr and Muir.
Right, I was only asking about the specific part I quoted. The rest of it made sense to be as the results of a check.
So, on disarming the glyphs unless Caks has a way to do so without tripping them when he gets within 5' the setting off of the trap will be how they are disarmed. They are magical glyphs set to go off when anything approaches within 5'. NOTE: If you are "Unholy" the traps won't go off. So, he can disarm them by taking the damage?
Looks like the party is going to the Shrine of Thyr. I'll post that way. If Caks wants to take the damage, we can retro that.
Are there any changed Exploration activities for going to the new shrine?
A little more on disabling magical traps.
If it can be physically altered before going off it can be disabled by Thievery as long as your proficiency level is equal or greater... but at a higher DC. For example...
* Detect magic will only find magical traps if there is no Stealth DC for the trap. In this instance that is fine, but if the Proficiency level of the magical trap is trained or higher you must find the trap in a normal perception way. Brennus's arcane sense will give the general area but must still find the trap. A normal Detect magic will only reveal there is magic within 30'
* Typically Dispel Magic is what is used for a "Counterspell" attempt on the trap... if you know the spell.
* There are feats for both Thievery and dispelling magic to make finding magical traps more efficient and effective.
* Magical Traps are tough in PF2e.
Merry Christmas!!!
I'm going to be away from home today through the 30th, so my responses may be sporadic.
Looks like some of you might be having difficulty envisioning the layout of where your are after the battle.
@ Caks:
Just realized you've got this feat... so you can stay in defend and still get a search for finding traps... but only for traps. Which would you like for your default action.
Trap Finder
1
Rogue
You have an intuitive sense that alerts you to the presence of traps. You gain a +1 circumstance bonus to Perception checks to find traps, to AC against attacks made by traps, and to saves against traps. Even if you aren't Searching, you get a check to find traps that normally require you to be Searching. You still need to meet any other requirements to find the trap. You can disable traps that require a proficiency rank of master in Thievery. If you have master proficiency in Thievery, you can disable traps that require a proficiency rank of legendary instead, and your circumstance bonuses against traps increase to +2.
Caks will 'defend' by having her dagger out.
We seem to be struggling a bit still with exploration mode. Switching frequently is hard for me to come up with. What are the odds of you guys putting your current mode in your profile heading and changing as you wish?
I'm fine with that but Rail sticks with Investigate so it's easy.
The main issue for me is unless you put in a spoiler with information for Rail I can't tell from a post if the Recall Knowledge check has already been rolled or not. Could you do something like say Rail doesn't remember anything relevant when the check is too low to come up with anything?
I could do that.
I've got a few minutes to answer some questions here. I'm re-drawing the map in Inkarnate this weekend, as the copy/pasting the module maps aren't high enough resolution so probably Monday before I can get up the new map.
I'll be available again full time tomorrow, so I'll move us along then.
@ Rail: At this time, you're not sure what the condition caused by this area is. This would be a Religion check.
Religion
You think that if you were to go to dying in here you would be one step closer. ie... straight to the next condition of dying.
@ Brennus:
You believe that you would have to destroy the stone lintel it's scribed on to eliminate its power. Scrubbing it or cleaning it somehow would be more effective. Also, Force Barrage has to target a "Creature".
@ Telurion:
RK Religion
You recall that the undead skeletons probably were able to move without setting off the traps... so it probably requires something living to set off the runes. Also, you would have to destroy the Lintel to remove the effectiveness of the rune. More mundane methods of removing paint/stains would probably be more effective. Think about a painted sign... it's probably easier to destroy the sign, than to precisely remove whatever is painted on it with rocks... but paint remover would work.
I'm fine with that but Rail sticks with Investigate so it's easy.
The main issue for me is unless you put in a spoiler with information for Rail I can't tell from a post if the Recall Knowledge check has already been rolled or not. Could you do something like say Rail doesn't remember anything relevant when the check is too low to come up with anything?
I did a spoiler on the recall knowledge check for what you uncovered with your checks. I'll more clearly mark who the spoiler is for going forward.
Had I suggested Brennus using telekinetic hand to pick up a rag and use it to wipe off the symbol? I feel like I had and some problem with it had been pointed out, but I have to go to work now so I don't have time to hunt back and see if I'm remembering correctly.