Talking animals are quite rare... especially in a civilized area like Bards Gate. There are many stories of sentient animals, but most are passed off as folk tales, or tricks of magic. None of you have ever encountered an actual sentient animal so I would think most of you would be expecting a trick of some sort.
Thanks! Lillianith isn't here anymore but Caks encountered talking wolves the beginning of the game, though, right?
A couple of things I noticed in looking at your Pathbuilder Characters. Remember you can go to the Hamburger menu in the upper right, and click on Character Options... then scroll down to both "Free Archetype, and "Ancestral Paragon". Not sure if you need the paid version to do this or not. If so, just choose manually and I'll add to your PB build.
1. Rail - You still have a Free Ancestry feat to choose at Level 1.
I do? When I look at the sheet the lvl 1 Ancestry Feat is set with Ancestral Longevity. That's when I click on the link in the Alias. Do you know if it's different for people just viewing the link versus me who has it saved locally?
Oh, FYI SB, Rail's Exploration actions will be Investigate unless the situation calls for something else. He seems like the kind of guy who would be looking at and thinking about stuff.
Here is what I see when I open your character in Pathbuilder.
I see Ancestral Paragon... but the Ancestry feat is blank.
Talking animals are quite rare... especially in a civilized area like Bards Gate. There are many stories of sentient animals, but most are passed off as folk tales, or tricks of magic. None of you have ever encountered an actual sentient animal so I would think most of you would be expecting a trick of some sort.Thanks! Lillianith isn't here anymore but Caks encountered talking wolves the beginning of the game, though, right?
I do? When I look at the sheet the lvl 1 Ancestry Feat is set with Ancestral Longevity. That's when I click on the link in the Alias. Do you know if it's different for people just viewing the link versus me who has it saved locally?A couple of things I noticed in looking at your Pathbuilder Characters. Remember you can go to the Hamburger menu in the upper right, and click on Character Options... then scroll down to both "Free Archetype, and "Ancestral Paragon". Not sure if you need the paid version to do this or not. If so, just choose manually and I'll add to your PB build.
1. Rail - You still have a Free Ancestry feat to choose at Level 1.
Spoiler
That happened, but it was a Druid shape changed into a Wolf... which they suspected later.
Here is what I see when I open your character in Pathbuilder.
I see Ancestral Paragon... but the Ancestry feat is blank.
OK weird, it didn't save the changes I made; I picked Elven Lore. Maybe it's the link? I updated the link in the Alias's Profile and it's a different number now. Could you check again, please?
Or I'll just put here too, try this.
Oh right, I hadn't dotted this yet. XD Can you see my updates to Brennus's Pathbuilder page, or do I need a new link as well? He went with Psychic Dedication and Natural Senses (low-light vision).
I don't usually post on weekends, this is an anomaly.
Can we talk about how we're going to approach NPCs before PCs start yelling at them, please? I don't understand why Variel is yelling at the quest giver. I get being aggressive with a hostile NPC but this guy hasn't done anything to indicate he needs to be Intimidated yet. This party has already been thrown out of this church once.
I don't usually post on weekends, this is an anomaly.
Can we talk about how we're going to approach NPCs before PCs start yelling at them, please? I don't understand why Variel is yelling at the quest giver. I get being aggressive with a hostile NPC but this guy hasn't done anything to indicate he needs to be Intimidated yet. This party has already been thrown out of this church once.
With love, sure, we could do that ... and that would have needed to come BEFORE the "alrighty that's just great, that sure works for me!!!" post.
Also, yeah, Rail wasn't there. Go back and read the post about this guy, he's a d**k. So the dude throws a fit that someone came into a church, the toadie puts the squeeze on them when they come back, and you think that Variel responding to Telurian is some kind of problem!? It isn't. Tellurian assumed it was all fine AND assumed the church would just "take care" of stuff. Variel corrected him. Variel has had enough. Variel paid the "toll" - and Rail just got there.
In full transparency also, I just went through this in another campaign.
"Yuk yuk yuk, well gollllllleeeee, sure we'll take your lame deal no questions asked!" Yeah no. Not again. Sorry.
Rail's obsequious response is out of line and totally not in keeping with anything that the party has experienced. Like I said, go back and read. There is nothing about this operation that says it's remotely good or beneficial to anyone let alone impoverished or short on resources. This isn't a diplomatic situation, it's the 3rd time this church has tried to squeeze the party and Variel called them on it. The one other clergyperson in the room called the corrupt jerk on his bul$$hit; I'm okay with that.
HAPPY to depart if that's what we need too, because the priest needed to be attacked ... I didn't.
Both of you have good points here. I'll think about it over the weekend and come up with a determination. PbP can often be difficult to interpret correctly, but personally attacking someone isn't acceptable either.
Okay. Time for a review... and some brutal honesty.
My first instinct upon the latest drama in this game was just to call it and move on. It's been plagued by turnover, rules disagreements, and even in-game disputes. I do this for enjoyment, and to tell a story... and it's been challenging to stay positive.
But I do have a story to share, and truly enjoy each of your characters. In addition, I feel a responsibility to allow two new players who invested time to review the story so far and develop characters. Having said that I'm going to dive into some concepts that need to be embraced for the game to move forward.
1. In this setting and in most of my games, the majority of people you meet are at worst neutral. This adventuring party have a history of jumping to confrontation immediately when meeting someone. This is somewhat understandable as we nobody in the group was designed as a "Face"... however saying that this approach tends to make your story much more difficult as you've been terrible at first impressions.
(The Troglodytes in the cave, the father in Raven, the councilor in Raven, the leader of the Asylum, and now the head priest here). I'm not sure what kind of games you've played in the past that assumed everyone you meet is an enemy.
2. I finally just said... Okay... that's just the way this team moves forward with things. They're basically just A-holes, and that was Okay. I'll adjust the game, because I'm trying to never tell you how to play your characters. Having high turnover has tended to amplify this situation, as we actually don't have any of the original players still playing. I take full responsibility for this as obviously I'm not providing a scenario that is pleasant for PC retention. I'm learning as we go and trying not to repeat mistakes.
3. Now onto the elephant in the room. We are all good strong players with strong personalities and opinions on how things can be done. While this created conflict, it can also create fantastic stories. However, this moved beyond simple conflict.
First of all, if as a PC you have an issue with the way things are being done in game, it would be advisable to discuss it with the GM (Me in this case) instead of taking it into the game thread. Let me be the "bad guy" or "good guy". Sometimes moving your opinions through a filter can reduce their negative impact.
Secondly, the response to this was out of line. We should NEVER publicly (or privately for that matter) engage in personal attacks. If you feel the need to express your feelings about something or someone you certainly may... but not publicly. Nothing positive can come of that. Two wrongs never make a right.
I'm willing to continue this game but am almost at ropes end from trying to referee the players. I have enough responsibility for running the encounters, playing the NPC's, Developing and sharing maps, and researching rules, and creatures. If we can all agree to play by these rules, I'd love to continue to serve as your GM. If not then thanks for taking part, and we'll see you on the boards.
As far as the current situation, let's review how we got here. This new party in the city, goes stomping into the MAIN church of Thyr in this cosmopolitan metropolis like they own it. Interrupting a service from the highest ranking (And Level) priest in the city. I don't have a problem with that but there are repercussions to your actions. We were able to put a little sugar on the situation, and priest agreed to meet you later. Remember you want a favor from this priest is why you're here to begin with.
You currently possess an evil artifact which you'd love to take off your hands. Where / who is responsible for the existence of this artifact? Who put into play? You have a powerful potential ally who might at least take this off your plate for now.
The contribution to the Church was a bit of equalization for your earlier outburst. Your contribution was very generous (Remember this is a Silver based economy not a gold based, so the Copper would have served... but the silver put you on better terms. (Moved the DC for checks down substantially). Your actions have a direct effect on things in the game.
Having this conversation with Tellurion and the group in private would have been fine... but saying it in front of the whole group will probably lower your standing with both the priest, and the church. He might just tell you where you can put your artifact. You are looking for him to do you a favor and use threats instead of diplomacy to try and get cooperation. Was this part of the encounter forgotten? Agin, if this is what is intended fine... but it seems a bit overboard.
When you guys make statements in character we are in Social Mode. Saying things will affect the difficulty level... but will require some kind of social interaction roll for your character. It's them speaking not you as a PC.
Just for the sake of discussion, I want to say I don't understand who's being talked about when Variel says they were attacked? Rail didn't say anything hostile to Variel, he just stepped in with a 'hey hey this is all a misunderstanding' kind of de-escalation. I the player certainly didn't mean my question as an attack on anybody, I was asking why Variel came in so hot. I don't consider that an attack.
I've read through the whole thread and saw why you got thrown out of the chapel. Personally, I think it was an overreaction (people show up late to church all the time, they could have just sat in the back) but maybe the priest is so Lawful he hates latecomers or there's a tenet against lateness. But it seems like (as SB said above and it looks like Telurion was trying to do) that after being thrown out once maybe the PCs would have wanted to try a softer approach.
Also consider that Rail will say whatever seems necessary in the moment. Smoothing things over (and lying) is his job. Everything he said was done with the goal of calming the Father down and letting the PCs offload the violin. He even ended with a request for payment, which was exactly what Variel seems like he wants.
Also also, this guy's clearly a quest giver. What kind of game do we want to play where we go around telling quest giver NPCs to shove it?
I don't personally feel any friction here. I didn't intend to attack anybody, Rail didn't attack anybody, and it seems like a perfectly ok scene for one PC to be mad and another to try to smooth things out. I've got no problem with how this is playing out.
At 9:30 on a Saturday morning, which is god awful early to me sometimes, possibly less caffeinated than is optimal, on the back of the similarity to the situation I cited from another campaign, I would hope that the situation being somewhat to more than somewhat triggering could be understood.
Please also note, that I have not opposed, in principle, to being even handed with, as GM has shared, predominantly neutral predominantly non-antagonistic NPCs. This is not that. This guy was RUDE when they arrived ... and I reserve the right, on Variel's behalf, to play to that. They were banished from the church because of their little ritual being interrupted, and then upon their return, the toady at the door put the squeeze on them as if they were just people coming in to the building ... and I reserve the right, on Variel's behalf, to play to that as well. When we add to that, as I stated Saturday, Telurion rolling over and asking the guy to scratch his tummy, once again I will say: I reserve the right, on Variel's behalf, to play to that. Sorry, I don't think that's unreasonable.
ALSO - sequence of events wise - in real life and in "game life" - asking "Can we talk about how we're going to approach NPCs before PCs start yelling at them ..." and then not waiting for that conversation to happen? COMPLETELY disingenuous. Sorry. It just is. If that post has been posted, and if there had been a dialog, and if we had engaged the disconnect like a party, that would have been awesome. Telurian's response was close to that. Rail's was not. Rail decided on their own without the dialog requested above, to simply move forward with their own agenda and not concern themselves with continuity or outcome. Sorry, not cool. If there needed to be a conversation than there should have been a conversation, between PLAYERS, HERE, in discussion. There wasn't. Part of that problem could be the difference in perspective represented in Rail's last statement: " ... it seems like a perfectly ok scene for one PC to be mad and another to try to smooth things out. I've got no problem with how this is playing out." Afraid I cannot agree with that either. Not to say that GM can't smooth it over using the NPC, but I don't agree. Sorry. Rail is the new guy; Rail's role as the new guy should have been to ask what's up, not try to superceded the characters he just met. Sorry, the world works the way the world works.
This "quest giver" thing also appears to be a thing which I don't quite get or agree with either; this is an obnoxious priest who needs a favor. There are any number of things that the party can undertake at this point, and being fleeced tby the church of Thyr doesn't need to be one of them. It was FINE for this "gentleman" to be called out on his rudeness, especially after asking a favor from the party he was rude to. In the universe of people interacting, I don't think it was all that out of line at all for someone who has been bullied to tell the bully, hey, um, you're a bully asking for a favor, want to realign yourself maybe. As a point of order, also, there was no "yelling" - there was an exclamation point at the end of the word ENOUGH to add emphasis to the fact that Variel had had it with these people. No yelling, emphasis, that's all. No caps, no other indicators, just ONE exclamation point, that's it.
I would always be open to a discussion, and I wish that one had happened. Absolutely it felt like an attack, look at the sequence of events here: I don't understand VARIEL YELLING ... at the "QUEST GIVER" ... so I will post a response completely in opposition to what Variel expressed. Yep, feels like an attack. I can accept that maybe it wasn't meant as one, but my perception is still valid. Had Variel's reaction simply been called into question, great, I would have clarified. Had the courtesy of a DM or other contact been extended, great, I would have welcomed that. Those did not happen.
So while I would agree to begin with there wasn't any friction; the party had just kind of said "yeah, go ahead and tag along" I'm not entirely sure what there is now.
As far as the current situation, let's review how we got here. This new party in the city, goes stomping into the MAIN church of Thyr in this cosmopolitan metropolis like they own it. Interrupting a service from the highest ranking (And Level) priest in the city. I don't have a problem with that but there are repercussions to your actions. We were able to put a little sugar on the situation, and priest agreed to meet you later. Remember you want a favor from this priest is why you're here to begin with.
You currently possess an evil artifact which you'd love to take off your hands. Where / who is responsible for the existence of this artifact? Who put into play? You have a powerful potential ally who might at least take this off your plate for now.
The contribution to the Church was a bit of equalization for your earlier outburst. Your contribution was very generous (Remember this is a Silver based economy not a gold based, so the Copper would have served... but the silver put you on better terms. (Moved the DC for checks down substantially). Your actions have a direct effect on things in the game.
Having this conversation with Tellurion and the group in private would have been fine... but saying it in front of the whole group will probably lower your standing with both the priest, and the church. He might just tell you where you can put your artifact. You are looking for him to do you a favor and use threats instead of diplomacy to try and get cooperation. Was this part of the encounter forgotten? Agin, if this is what is intended fine... but it seems a bit overboard.
When you guys make statements in character we are in Social Mode. Saying things will affect the difficulty level... but will require some kind of social interaction roll for your character. It's them speaking not you as a PC.
AND
More to the problem is like, ALL of this.
WOW
Just WOW
I will go ahead and own my own new playerness, because Variel was actually not in Raven at the time of the incident, but again, WOW.
Frodo could actually have said, f this ... very possibly should have.
The party is asking a favor!?!?
The party seeking out good-aligned clergy to keep the world safe is a favor!?!? WOW
So this is the heart of the issue I guess: this world feels the PCs owe them this somehow. I am baffled. Talk about the demise of player agency, lol, you save a town and you're stuck with fixing a curse? WOW.
I also just re-read everything, AGAIN, and some of this is interpretive.
I am totally good with owning that I'm NOT the GM either ...
So while I can see that there might have been some barging-in-ness, I also feel like the Tue, Sep 24, 2024, 06:43 am post has a lot of amplification in it. Yes, Caks & Telurion were impatient, I see that, but there was also no indication that we should not enter the church either. Telurion's post just prior said IF the door wasn't unlocked, he would open it and ask if anyone was there. Not entirely sure that's offensive, but again, I guess that's just me. Sorry to have missed this. Even in the moment though, Variel tried to smooth things over when it seemed like just a misunderstanding.
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Just as a counterpoint to the above. If you were to enter the sanctum of say a baptism ceremony at a local church burst open the door and state... "Is anybody Here". would probably not result in a favorable reaction.
I'm just saying that perhaps cracking open the door to look inside, or listening to see if anything was going on, or even knocking at the door might have been reacted to differently.
It is also brought up that the church needs you to do a favor for them... when in fact this party has come to ask the church to do them a favor. Perhaps there could be additional support but accusing them of bullying isn't really the situation here. The whole introduction got off to a bad start with the initial approach.
The most powerful priest in the city MUST enforce his sanctity and influence remember the Church of Thyr is very lawful... so they probably do frown upon if not outlaw late arrivals or interruptions of the ceremony.
If the party takes the time to research more about the Church before entering some of this might be uncoverable... as well as determining the service hours.
I understand that things are moving slowly at the moment, but they will pick up again now that we have a full crew and hopefully a goal in mind.
If that's the way you see it, then just leave the artifact on the doorstep like an orphan baby and walk away. It's not your problem then. You can go look elsewhere for adventure. Maybe there is a HERO in the church who will take over finding what the cause is.
The fact is the party took ownership of the fiddle. If you want to leave it there... do so. It's you agency. There are plenty of other ways to get involved with things around here. No hard feelings on my part, I'll just prepare something else.
If that's the way you see it, then just leave the artifact on the doorstep like an orphan baby and walk away. It's not your problem then. You can go look elsewhere for adventure. Maybe there is a HERO in the church who will take over finding what the cause is.
The fact is the party took ownership of the fiddle. If you want to leave it there... do so. It's you agency. There are plenty of other ways to get involved with things around here. No hard feelings on my part, I'll just prepare something else.
I think it was in the presentation: so in our real world examples, I think if you went to the FBI and asked them what to do about the armed nuclear device on your lawn, they would not think you were "asking them a favor" - taking care of this fiddle thing seems like the right thing to do, it seems heroic, so when I see it referred to as "asking the church for a favor" I will admit, as I said, I am baffled.
The party is the brave heroes of Raven who are still looking out for humanity ... is met with ... so I guess you need a favor. Sorry, that just doesn't sit right to me. Frodo didn't arrive at Rivendell "needing a favor" - it was recognized that he had already served all of the people of Middle Earth and he was helped because it was the right thing to do.
Then like I said just leave it and walk away
OK so the place is around 75 miles away. How long would it take to get there and back? Father Bofred said a month (though honestly if we take longer than that what is he going to do, just throw a possibly cursed magic item out on the street?)- how much of that is going to be taken up with travel?
Looking back over your trip from Raven to Bard's Gate it looks like we don't need to track supplies so that's good. We can just fluff buying stuff for the road, then.
* Yes. I'm going to handwave normal sustenance. If you want to live a more lavish lifestyle, just take off 1-GP per month of gametime.
Horse Traders in Bards Gate. (NOTE: There are other ways to acquire mounts).
Travel time chart in now in campaign info.
Stay safe SB. Batton down the hatches!
Yikes, stay safe!
Hope everything was ok, SB!
Horse Traders in Bards Gate. (NOTE: There are other ways to acquire mounts).
I'm curious about these other ways to acquire mounts. How would we find those, SB?
NOTE: I'll move things along in a bit. don't want to get stuck.
Also, note I mentioned three dealers. They might all offer different possibilities or side missions.
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I missed a lot of the discussion tab. Getting caught up. Calling us a bunch of a--holes, not appreciated and most of the interactions I've been in are because of how the npc's reacted or just GM fiat.
With the asylum boss-lady she had received a letter from Raven about the girl to be returned. Presumably the undead thing combined with the girl's involvement would have at least been mentioned. Instead of an apology for what happened or asking after the state of the town she's like 'oh our little angel is back'. She seemed callous if not complicit in what had happened. So I confronted.
With the church, my description Telurion walks up to the door of the Temple of Thyr and attempts to open the door. If it opens he goes on in and calls out, "Hello, anybody here?" If the door does not open he pounds on it and waits.
Obviously I was expecting an EMPTY temple. Apparently a quiet part of the ceremony so we heard nothing but neither was there any sign of anything going on. Instead of giving the basic information that we open the door and find an ongoing ritual how do you react, I was made to 'The vast inner room echos with Telurion's booming voice and the faces of about 60 souls turn to see what the interruption is.' Why would I do that?
I'll play off most any situation you put me in and I try to be polite unless I think someone is hiding something or being belligerent, the gate for example, or the hotel. No personal attacks also means no general name calling. It wasn't polite and it wasn't accurate.
To the situation of the moment, I hope and pray all is well with you GM and your home. The devastation looks terrible. Take as much time as you need, we'll still be here.
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I enjoy interacting with the City of Bards Gate... but I get the sense that you guys are ready to move on with some encounters that don't require smiles and platitudes.
If you wish, I'll fast forward to you having purchased (4) Standard riding horses from The Dun Corral. The horses have seen their better days but seem solid enough. One of them has an obviously altered brand on it. Feel free to name and describe your new mount.
SR3 - The Dun Corral
SR3. The Dun Corral
Originally part of an inn that was destroyed by the invaders, this structure survives only as bare, scorch-marked stone walls. Captain Jadeyn Roean, master of the Stablers and Breeders Guild, has seen to it that the building still serves a useful purpose, however, and has converted it into a horse-trading post and livery stable.
He has a rough weather-beaten face, with three long scars that cross his face from nose down to chin. He claims it is the result of a bear attack,
If you guys waited the two days for Tenebrin to work his magic, you also have 3-GP each to spend before setting forth. If you wanted to leave right away, then you have 1-GP each in addition to whatever treasure you might have on your own.
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Brennus will do more talking when we return triumphant to the city. :D Right now, he's just had his life upended, been rather violently transported a great distance to a place where he knows noone, and decided out of some sense of desperation to throw his lot in with the first bunch of adventurer-types he spotted. Once he's had to time to ingratiate himself with this new group build trust with his new comrades and hopefully start building a positive reputation in town, he'll be much more eager to talk to people. But for now he's eager to see if there's any interesting magic to be found where we're going... oh yeah, and maybe rescue that one guy, he definitely is very focused on that... <.< >.>
I will be away Thursday through Saturday.
Please BOT me if necessary.
Okay. I'm going to move you guys along with four unnamed horses, and 1-GP each.
Rail is built for city interaction but I don't post on weekends. Happy to move on, though.
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since Wildsong is a secret language, I'm going to rule that the Ancestral Longevity wouldn't work here. This isn't central to the plot just a side quest which would reveal lore more than anything.
The other way to find out what this might refer to is to follow the side trail and see where it leads.
This is a very "Sand Boxy" campaign so, and the fact that PF2e doesn't really embrace random encounters I have many set encounters that are voluntary or semi-voluntary.
With five of us, the 25gp can be split easily. With my 5 I will get a shortbow (3gp) with twenty arrows (2sp) and pocket 1.8.
With five of us, the 25gp can be split easily. With my 5 I will get a shortbow (3gp) with twenty arrows (2sp) and pocket 1.8.
So part of the fun of the current group, for Variel, will totally have to be Brennus. Soooooooooo with regards to the quoted post ... where does Brennus keep money?
I will own that I have been fascinated by the Awakened Animal thing since it was announced (and if you saw my Insta, you would see almost as many birds of prey pictures as you would kittens). Love it.
Brennus will be happy to take a share of the money, but right now, he has no way to carry it, so he'll be asking one of you to hold onto it for him (I'll write about this in-character shortly). The next time we're in town he'll probably see about commissioning a little pack customized to his anatomy.
since Wildsong is a secret language, I'm going to rule that the Ancestral Longevity wouldn't work here. This isn't central to the plot just a side quest which would reveal lore more than anything.
The other way to find out what this might refer to is to follow the side trail and see where it leads.
This is a very "Sand Boxy" campaign so, and the fact that PF2e doesn't really embrace random encounters I have many set encounters that are voluntary or semi-voluntary.
Sounds good thanks SB.
If you socially interact with someone it has an impact on their attitude towards you. They start out at a certain status, the the interaction affects that roll… so you would need to make a social interaction (diplomacy, deception, or intimidation)
I guess I forgot that none of you were here for my social encounter tutorial at the first of the campaign.
If you are interacting socially with NPC's it is an encounter, so requires rolls. I will adjust the DC depending on what you say and how you act in the gameplay thread... but you still need your character to make rolls to adjust the attitude of the NPC.
You can also make "Perception" rolls to try and judge the attitude of the NPC (This is your "Sense Motive" in PF2e.
In this case the NPC started out as Unfriendly. (Perhaps there is more than meets the eye here??). He begins the encounter "Unfriendly". There is a certain level-based DC to shift this attitude up or down. The 18 that Brennus rolled is enough to shift his attitude to indifferent, and his statement in character adjusted this DC. Telurion also spoke which if he's using diplomacy as well could be used to assist Brennus's roll, or he could take a different tact, but a social encounter is treated like a combat encounter. You still make rolls in character to try to accomplish something.
I'll not make the rolls for you for sensing motive... but if you wish to do so you need to let me know. Also, things like "Warfare Lore" can be used for secret Recall knowledge checks to learn additional information.
Just to summarize when you interact with NPCs it is an encounter and has rules to follow.
Thanks!!!!
Do we roll a check for every post while talking with an NPC?
Not for every post... but if you are contributing to the conversation, then you make a check.
If three people speak to someone then what they are saying has an effect on the conversation. The encounter began with him issuing a challenge. It's not tracked in rounds, but multiple people responded to him. Those that responded need to make a check. This is an attempt to do two things... one try to talk him down from his threats, two why is he doing this.
If you don't make a roll... then you can't change his attitude. If three people are talking to him then they either, make their own check using whatever social interaction they want to use... or assist the main person talking with the aid interaction.
The Perception (Sense Motive) check is to see if you can interpret why he is acting like he is.
I'm glad that you guys are getting involved in negotiating with him, but if you've got a character, you've created that is horrible at diplomacy, maybe let the character that shines at and is built for that take the lead for a bit.
I find Pathfinder 2e very horizontally powerful. If you want to negotiate build your character that way... or take feats / Archetypes that make your "Character" good at that. Same with Deception, "I don't want to fight... but my sick mother is on the other side and needs my help". Same with Intimidation "Stand down or you'll be feeding the fishes in the river". What your CHARACTER says influences the actions, just like swinging your sword, picking a lock, or following a trail.
BTW... can you all see the "At the Bridge" map in Owl Bear Rodeo?
Remember if you request access you need to let me know so I can let you in. Once you're in unless you clear your cookies, or access on a different device you stay in. Probably "Discord" is the best place to request access as it pings me and lets me know there is action to be taken, where in the paizo forums or in OBR I don't get notified.
Right now Rail is trying to gauge the situation, figure out who this guy is and what he is doing so he can figure out what angle to take. Do I need to roll Diplo now just because he's talking? Or can he talk to elicit information without specifically trying to influence, with the aim of developing a strategy to use for Diplomacy later?
Gaging the situation and what angle to take is EXACTLY what the social interaction rules are designed to do... so yes. You need to do something for your character to interact. He has issued a challenge.
This is to make the Characters actions have consequences. A CHA -1 character shouldn't be able to navigate this situation as well as a CHA +4 character with skill training and perhaps feats to enhance things.
Well right but I don't know if he wants to Make an Impression or Lie or Coerce yet. He certainly doesn't want to answer a challenge without finding out more. Oh ok I checked the spoilers and see you rolled to keep things moving. In the future should we just rolls immediately like that, too? I'm sorry I'm not sure I understand what you want us to do in social challenges.
I get that it's an encounter like combat but Rail wouldn't start a combat, he would react to combat starting. So if the Diplo/Deception/Intimidate are like attack rolls, which I wouldn't want to start off with immediately, we should roll Perception and Lore to get information?
In social encounters your goal is to interpret / influence their attitude. The only way to do that is by using the social skills. It's like real life. Use the skill you feel is right. You don't know in advance which is most useful. The perception / lore skills might give you clues... but you don't know till you query.
Telurions 4 was almost a critical failure which would have made him hostile towards Telurion if on his own, but in this case, it just offers a penalty to the Diplomacy check... basically offsetting the positive aid roll from Rail.
If you're talking to a shopkeeper, you might not need to make rolls. That's what they do for a living every day. If you want to get a good deal or try to get information you probably move on to a social encounter.
In this case the Knight started a social encounter.
So we are still in social encounter mode. You have moved him from unfriendly to indifferent. By your next statement you are trying to move him from Indifferent to Friendly... so you need to make more rolls.
His attitude shows that his attitude is changing. Making him friendly might result in him revealing additional information.
OK, rolled a 15 Diplomacy check. That's not going to change his attitude. What do we do now?
OK, rolled a 15 Diplomacy check. That's not going to change his attitude. What do we do now?
Don't just assume that is a failure. Remember I adjust the DC based on what your character says... Also, you do have a hero point should you not be confident in your roll.