You mean my post or the link in it? I intentionally posted it here for all to see, but the link goes to the Recruitment page for the game in question.
Just to be clear, the sword has flames merely licking over its surface, it barely produces any light. Anything it touches, in combat or out, might catch on fire (6 on a non-Acing d6). It doesn't add any damage to the attack.
Evesk noticed that the goblin had a sheath on its belt, and took it. When the sword is in the sheath, the flames go out.
Oh okay so a nearly useless flame on a sword -- still if I were to touch it to a torch it would light a torch or if I were to stick it in to some wood that eventually it would start the campfire ;-)
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Suggestion that instead of giving off bright light in a 4" radius like a torch -- have it give off weak light (aka dim light) in a 4" radius and allow it to ignite torches or other flammable substances with a single action like a Tindertwig (of if that is too quick a Full-Round Action) and it takes at least 1 minute (GM discretion based on the substance) for it to ignite items that can burn but are not necessarily flammable -- although the 6 on a non-aceable 1d6 works as well for the latter part.
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Basically make it have a very minor use besides just looking impressive that mirrors what a flame ought to do.
The sword already can possibly set aflame things which can burn (like leather armor and wood) during a melee turn (and out of combat, without a roll). It just makes sense that it would also light things which are flammable just as quickly (but without a roll). But it gives off no appreciable light to speak of.
FWIW, in Pathfinder, Light Generation is a separate magic-item effect, and neither PF or SW's description of the "flaming" quality says that it also creates an appreciable amount of light.
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Stunned is the worst condition in SW (both in-game, and mechanically), and conceptually I hate its complexity. But it was in the AP, and I've never actually tried it, so here's how it goes...
When you become Stunned, you :
• Are Distracted (-2 to all Trait rolls; this is removed at the end of the victim’s *next* turn as usual, regardless of their Stunned condition)
• Are Vulnerable (opponents are +2 to attack you; this remains until you recover from being Stunned)
• Fall prone (or to their knees, GM’s call)
• Can’t move or take *any* actions (other than recovery rolls)
At the start of a Stunned character’s turn, he makes a Vigor roll as a Free action (at –2 if in the first and second rounds because of the Distracted). Success means he’s no longer Stunned (and so can take actions, at –2 if in the first and second rounds) but remains Vulnerable until the end of his *next* turn. With a Raise, his Vulnerable state goes away at the end of this turn.
So, that's 5 non-normal states you can be in :
Stunned & Distracted
Stunned & not Distracted
Vulnerable & Distracted
Vulnerable & not Distracted
Not Vulnerable & Distracted
AND you have to keep track of which round the character lost the Distracted and Stunned conditions in, because Distracted and Vulnerable don't disappear until the end of the *next* round!
Simple, isn't it? :(
Gives me additional reasons to value the stun power in SWADE.
Thanks for the summary. I'll probably refer to it as necessary.
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After talking with some folks on Reddit, I've realized I misinterpreted the use of the phrase "on the next turn". So, here's the updated recovery process :
At the start of a Stunned character’s turn, he makes a Vigor roll as a Free action (at –2 in the first turn because of the Distracted). Success means he’s no longer Stunned (and so can take actions, at –2 in the first turn) but remains Vulnerable until the end of his *next* turn. With a Raise, his Vulnerable state goes away at the end of this turn.
The Distracted condition automatically goes away at the end of the character's first turn of being Stunned.
Just FYI as I can go with your call on this.
So yeah I know that the flaming sword in PF1e does not explicitly state that it gives off light but dang a candle gives off light and a sword on fire (not just red hot metal) would give off at least as much light as a candle which is as follows:
Candle: A candle dimly illuminates a small area, increasing the light level in a 5-foot radius by one step (darkness becomes dim light and dim light becomes normal light).
This is why I as a GM have always simply said a flaming weapon gives off dim light within the same radius as a torch which in PF1e is a 20-foot radius. So more effective than a candle but less effective than a torch.
Oh and yeah thanks for clarifying that Stunned Condition definitely need to auto remove that one if it drops which I hope is possible.
I'm thinking of removing the Distracted condition from Stunned altogether, so the process would look like this :
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Fail at first roll to recover :
Stunned (can't act), Vulnerable (for however many Turns you fail recovery)
Vulnerable (only if Success on recovery, until end of this turn; skip if Raise on recovery)
Normal
Succeed at first roll to recover :
Vulnerable (until end of first turn)
Normal
Raise at first roll to recover:
Normal
Okay so from what I understand from what you have outlined (if I did not get confuzzled that is). Oh and I am not covering the Raise condition just the basic flow.
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Creature Stunned
Distracted (-2 to all Traits) (last until End of Turn)
Vulnerable (Opponents +2 Attack) (last until Recovery)
Fall Prone (or to Knee)
No Actions (except Recovery roll)
Creature Rolls Vigor (-2)
-------{ Creature Succeeds immediately }-------
Distracted (-2 to all Traits) (last until End of Turn)
Vulnerable (Opponents +2 Attack) (last until End of Next Turn)
Still Prone (or on Knee)
-------{ Creature Fails immediately }-------
Distracted (-2 to all Traits) (last until End of Turn)
Vulnerable (Opponents +2 Attack) (last until Recovery)
Still Prone (or on Knee)
No Actions (except Recovery roll)
-------{ Next Round after Success }-------
Vulnerable (Opponents +2 Attack) (last until End of Turn)
-------{ Next Round after Failure }-------
Vulnerable (Opponents +2 Attack) (last until Recovery)
Still Prone (or on Knee)
No Actions (except Recovery roll)
Creature Rolls Vigor (-0)
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Okay so with the Distracted a Creature is generally going to be Stunned for 1 full round as the -2 makes it pretty tough to succeed especially at our current level. However, later on a highly vigorous creature could actually make that first save even with the -2. So at our current level getting Stunned is not a good thing but we have Bennies to deal with that (yes/no?) Which if applicable would seem like a very good time to be using a Benny. There is also the chance of getting an Ace so another means of canceling it out early on.
So all-in-all I think while nasty at low levels it is setup to remain viable even at higher levels and removing the Distracted tones it down a lot. But that is just me opinion and yours is the one that counts.
Evesk -
In your Stunned state list, you wrote :
No Actions (except Recovery roll)
Which is correct, No Actions is part of the Stunned condition, so it stays until you recover.
Under "Creature Succeed immediately", you can remove "Still Prone" since the Stunned state has been removed.
FWIW, you could drop the No Actions and Prone/Knee entries from the "rolling to recover" Failure states, since they are part of the Stunned condition which is still active if you've failed your roll.
Yes, you can use Bennies to re-roll the Vigor rolls to recover from Stunned.
I find RAW Stunned just too complicated to keep track of, I'm nerfing it to keep my sanity. ;)
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I've finally got a version of Stunned I'm happy with. It has only one "state" to keep track of, and no lingering conditions, which were my biggest problems with the RAW version.
Stunned :
• Are Vulnerable (+2 to all actions and attacks agains them)
• Fall prone (or to their knees, GM’s call)
• Can’t move or take *any* actions (other than recovery and “reaction” rolls)
• Don’t count toward the Gang Up bonus
Recovery: At the start of a Stunned character’s turn, he makes a Vigor roll (at -2 in their first turn of being Stunned) as a Free Action. Success means he’s no longer Stunned, and can act as normal.
Note if you cannot do any actions in a round except Recovery and you successfully recover are you saying that you can now do actions in that round if you made the Recovery roll?
I was under the impression that if you are Stunned and can do no actions except Recovery for that turn that it means in that turn you cannot get up from being Prone all you can do is make that Recovery roll if you are successful you can act normally on your next turn.
Also I included those other items in those sections as a reminder of everything that one still has applied to them.
And again as I said your call is the one that counts and I am good with whatever you decide. Further, I quite like your rewritten version as it truly is less confusing.
Still I have a question in that last sentence did you mean?
Recovery: At the start of a Stunned character's turn, they make a Vigor roll (at a -2 in their first turn of being Stunned) as a Free Action. Success means they are no longer Stunned, and can act as normal on their next turn.
Or did you mean as you seem to have written the same turn that you made the Save?
Evesk - you could always stand up and take Actions in the turn you recover from Stunned, because the recovery roll is a Free Action (and the first thing you do in your turn), and as soon as you're not Stunned, all its restrictions vanish. In the RAW version, you'd be at -2 to Actions if you recovered in your first turn, because of the Distracted condition. In my version, no penalty.
Yes, I got rid of the lingering Vulnerable in the RAW version (which is what prevents the character from "acting as normal" in the turn they recover), as it's something I'd have to track.
According to the AP, navigating thru the forest to Thistletop is a Multi-Person Dramatic Task requiring 24 Tokens total and lasts four 30-minute "Rounds" (it's 5 miles, so about 2 hours). I've been in Dramatic Tasks as a player, but this is the first time I've GM'd one. Let's see how it goes...
Each Round, everyone roll a non-Acing, non-re-rollable d4 first. On a 1, you've got a Complication. I'll say more about that if/when one comes up.
Then make a relevant Skill die roll for traversing thru a forest. Such as Notice for predators (or goblins), Survival, maybe a Power that might come in handy, etc. I urge everyone to try and roll a different Skill than the other PCs (altho if you *absolutely* can't think of anything relevant than some Skill that's already been used, go ahead). You can roll the same Skill each Round. Success gets you one Token, one or more Raises gets you two. A Critical Failure removes one Token from the pool.
Some ideas : Stealth to sneak (and guide friends) past dangerous wildlife, Intimidation to scare off that same dangerous wildlife, Healing could cover knowledge of which plants to avoid, Repair to make a bridge over a creek or river...be creative!
You can spend Bennies, but they probably won't get refreshed before your next combat, so...
Please briefly narrate what effect your Skill roll is having towards helping the group.
Any questions/comments? I'll wait a day or so, then post in Gameplay when to start rolling.
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Oh dang! made this post in the wrong thread -- moving the roleplay stuff to game play using these numbers sorry of the errror.
Were we all supposed to make all the rolls for all the rounds? It sounded more like we were to each make one drama roll and one skill roll, after which the GM would narrate progress and then the process would repeat. I'll go ahead and roll a bunch of skill rolls as the others did but I'm a little puzzled if this is what was intended.
Ok, so lots of people missed my "I'll...post in Gameplay when to start rolling" comment. Note to self : put things like that in bold next time...
Jzero got it right - the idea was *supposed* to be that on each round, each player would make a "Drama" roll (nice name!) first, then one appropriate Skill roll.
Note that I said that during each round, every PC should try to make a different Skill roll than the other PCs, not that each PC should make a different Skill roll on each one of their rounds.
But, I was going to present a different obstacle on each round, so that the PCs would have a built-in opportunity to use different Skills each round.
I also said "4 rounds", so why did those who posted make 6-7 rolls?
Sorry, but I can't take what's been posted and wrangle it into the Dramatic Task format. Let's start over...
My bad. I was home, off for the day and had plenty of time to read and post and then we had neighborhood drama. An older lady had some kind of medical emergency and passed out driving down out 25 MPH street. She hit the gas and ran into the back left of my neighbor's SUV across the street. I head the bang and ran out and couldn't figure out what happened at first. She hit the SUV so hard it moved a good 10 feet, destroyed her mailbox and i'm pretty sure her car is totalled. I don't know how fasy she was going but... it was fast.
The lady's car spun and was still running when I threw some flip flops on and ran out. It was making some sounds a newer Cadillac should not make and she still had her foot on the gas. Police, fire and ambulance showed up. Was not the morning we had planned on our day off for sure.
In other news I got to see about 8 neighbors for a while. We just hope the lady is OK. We called her daughter and she showed, said her mother was in good health and didn't have any known issues.
Well, didn't mean to be that long winded, guess I felt like I needed to get that story out!
So yeah, Start over!!!!
Velrek - wow! No problem...
ALL - so, it looks like the general approach taken in Dramatic Tasks in PbP will be determined by the first player to post. Jzero took a non-threatening approach, but if the first person to post had made a Fighting roll, then everyone else would have had to do some sort of attack or attack support roll. It makes no sense if half the party is trying to be peaceful while the other half attacks.
Around a table, the approach to take can be resolved quickly, but in PbP, it could take a couple of days IRL to agree on the approach. Not sure I like that, Dramatic Tasks are supposed to be quick...
Thoughts?
We have no way of knowing ahead of time what skill we should roll and you say pick one and if we do and more than one person makes that roll what then??
Perhaps just assign us rolls
Sorry, I am participating at a big tournament that started on Friday night with a narrative event and so I rushed my postings.
In my Gameplay post, I said "if you re-use a Skill, just narrate something different", so the restriction on making a unique Skill roll has been reduced dramatically.
The whole point of a Dramatic Task is to be creative, and come up with some way that one of your Skills can help the situation, on your own.
Okay thanks. Will do my best but I imagine it will take a bit of getting used to is all. Still any insights or feedback as we move forward would be appreciated.
Ok, sorry about this, but I'm changing from a Dramatic Task to Quick Encounters. The only effective change is that the number of Successes are counted after each event, rather than after all four events, to determine the results.
Everything else stays the same.
I will be at a conference from Friday through Monday. I am not sure how my posting will go. Feel free to bot me as needed.
I would interpret athletics broadly as covering anything an athlete might do. Avoiding contact is control of the body as when a football player (either kind) avoids a collision. No other skill seems to come close other than those that cover specific actions like shooting, riding, or driving.
Just wondering if this would be something that would work here??
Wilderness Stride: Rangers pass through rough terrain such as dense forest, rocky hills, or desert sands with ease. They ignore movement penalties for Difficult Ground (see page 124).
Johhan - I hadn't mentioned it yet, but this is Difficult Ground. However, that class ability only removes the *penalty* from DG (which you'll get if the need arises), and this isn't "rough terrain", it's a tiny tunnel filled with sharp pointy things all around you. Please go ahead and roll.
I updated the map link in Jzero's header to the new map. Sorry for the delay.
Yeah but we still went East rather than West -- which is rather confusing -- hopefully that will get straightened out ;-)
It's amazing what a group -2 penalty will do. With basically one not-very-tough opponent per PC, it's (probably) taken 5 rounds to put them all down, or one creature killed per round.
I guess it's a good thing they were tied up...
Well it is not like we are rolling a d20 with a +4 To Hit but a much smaller die where the -2 is much more severe. I mean if you are rolling a d8 that would equate to -5 with no bonuses on a d20 but with you needing a 11 or better to hit thus requiring you roll a 16 or more on the d20
So not so surprising really.
While I commend Castor I see no reason to just keep saying that Evesk is just standing guard.
Not a complaint just why I have not posted is all.
That was actually one of my problems with d20/PF - a +1 increases your chances of success by a measly 5%, whereas in SW a +1 increases your chances by 20% at low-level.
By my calculations, rolling d8 with a target of 4, the odds of success go from 80% down to 50% with a -2. So that would be a 30% reduction which equals a -6 in d20.
A penalty of -1 would reduce the success rate from 80% to about 65%, which is 15% and equal to a -3 in d20.
For comparison, I get a 75% chance of success with a d6, which goes down to 55% at -1 and to 30% at -2. Equal to -4 and -9 in d20 terms.
So the effect of the penalty gets worse for lower dice rolls and is less severe for higher dice rolls. In d20, the penalty is the same percent reduction in the chance to hit no matter what the actor's bonus.
About roll modifiers :
It would be a really big help to me if everyone would include all your roll modifiers in your rolls, and notate where each one comes from.
In the future, I'm going to be including your current modifiers in my "new round" posts, something like this :
Modifiers
All : -2 (Tunnels)
Johhann : -2 (Wounds) + 2 (Gang-Up)
Jzero : +2 (Gang-Up)
Crastor : +2 (Gang-Up)
These are situational modifiers, I won't include individual PC class or Edge modifiers which you need to include on your own. But please keep an eye out for any changes to your modifiers in the current round, that happen before you act!
Maybe just keep a small text file somewhere with the list of all your current modifiers to refer to when you post an action, and update it as soon as you see something has changed.
Please always refer back to the "new round" post or (preferably) your document before making any rolls, to be sure you're including all relevant modifiers.
Jzero puts the following after his unmodified rolls :
Modifiers : +1 - 2
and then shows the final result of his die roll.
I would ask that everyone please do something similar, but also please show where each modifier comes from, so :
Modifiers : +1(Monk) - 2(Tunnels)
so that I can tell at a glance that you're doing everything correctly. You could put this in your modifiers document as well, so it's a simple copy-and-paste.
Actually, the above line is *all* you need to have in your document!
Abbreviations are ok, as long as they are common and make sense, so instead of having to type out "Trademark Weapon", "TMW" is fine.
Or, you could put them in-line with your die rolls :
If you prefer this format, you could just keep this line of text in a document as well, and update it as conditions change.
Thanks!
About Bennies :
I was talking with Jzero, and realized that rules-as-written, 3 Bennies are given out at the beginning of every "game session" (when players meet face-to-face), which doesn't work so well for PbP. In a big dungeon, it'd be ridiculous to only award 3 Bennies at the beginning, and expect the players to get by thru the whole thing.
So I'm going to refresh Bennies at the end of every "section", like clearing a floor of a castle or dungeon, or having to slog your way thru something just to even get to the castle (like a thorn tunnel). Everyone please help me remember this, I have a horrible memory!
I'm also going to *experiment* with giving 4 Bennies per refresh. This should enable to you use Bennies for things other than re-rolling Trait rolls or not being Shaken or dying, like re-rolling Damage, recovering PP, or influencing the game. I reserve the right to go back to 3 depending on how things go.
I will add the source of the modifier in my modifier line.
My preferred way of doing rolls is to have a separate line for each roll (such as the main die used for the trait and the wild d6). I find it confusing when I see the main die and the wild die in the same line. It is harder to parse.
If either die aces (or both), then the ace roll(s) goes right below each ace.
Modifiers are applied after seeing what the unmodified roll is, so that's why I add that after the main rolls. I also find it confusing when the modifiers are included with the die roll.
Then, unless there are no aces and it is easy to see the main result, I think it helps to total the roll, aces (if any), and the modifiers to see at a glance the final result.
If I were the moderator, I'd insist everyone do it that way so it is standardized. Just a suggestion.
I don't care if players roll their Trait die and Wild die together or separately. I've been rolling them together for 10+ years, so I'm used to parsing them that way.
Your method of listing just the modifiers afterwards and then the final result separately is fine, but I would have no problems with :
Result = 7 - 2(Tunnels) + 2(Gangup) = 7
As for putting the modifiers in-line with the dice roll(s), I'm fine with that too. It may be harder to spot Aces tho, so that's up to the players.
I don't have any problems parsing any of these methods, the players can choose whatever works best for them.
I will be on vacation from Monday through Friday. I am not sure how my posting will go, so feel free to bot me as needed.
I keep meaning to ask, as a halfling am I also at -2 for the tunnels? Sorry I had thought I was ok due to my size.
Thnaks
Johhann - actually, you're right, sorry I missed that. DaRules say you're no taller than 3'4", and the tunnels are 4' high, so you can walk upright. No more penalties for you!
ALL - I've noticed something about being Entangled : it's much faster to have a friend help you!
The Entangled person has to roll Strength-4 or Athletics-2 to Succeed, which can take (as Velrek has already discovered) several rounds.
But, a friend cutting the vines (or whatever) uses the Breaking Things rules, which are : if you make a Fighting roll vs. TN 2 (guaranteed!), all you have to do is 4 Damage to cut the vines. Granted, this Damage does not Ace, but this is *much* easier to accomplish!
Note that Ceri just now rolled *very* low (her average damage is 8), but just one more point and Jzero would have been freed in one Round.
I'm telling you this because within the world, everyone would know "if someone gets entangled, someone else should help them out".
ALL - I've delved into going on Hold some more, and as worded, when you go on Hold, you "delay your Turn to allow you to resolve your Actions later in the Round". A "Turn" is *all* the Actions you take that Round.
So you cannot take any Free Actions before going on Hold, either, like moving.
Hold is not an Action, it's an Initiative choice.
As long as we can do something like, take a quick move and attack when the slippery one exits the bushes that's all that matters. :)
ALL - there's a second printing of the SWPF Core Rules (check the bottom of the PDF's "page 1" [the third page of the book] - if there's no "Second Printing" below the "WWW.PEGINC.COM", you've got the original). If you bought your original PDF from PEG (SW's parent company), you should be able to download the new edition for free (just go to your Downloads and click on the SWPF Core Rules link, the title of the book in the web page is no different, but you should get the second printing edition).
If you didn't, and can't afford a new copy right now, HERE is a link that pretty much summarizes most of the changes.
The most important ones are about the rules for Entanglement. Bound is now independent from Entangled and Entangled makes you Vulnerable instead of Distracted (so no extra -2 on the breaking free rolls unless you're Bound), but the Entangle Power's Hardness is now 8 instead of 4, so it's harder for a comrade to help someone break free using Breaking Things.
The entangled/bound character may also try to attack the bindings using Breaking Things (if your Fighting is higher than your Strength, but then you have to also make a no-Acing Damage roll), and anyone can use Wild Attack to get +2 to their damage.
I've got the second printing now, so some of what I post may be different than what's in your book...
There's also now a *fifth* printing of the SWADE Core Rules (check the bottom of the Credits page - if there's no "Nth Printing" after the "WWW.PEGINC.COM", you've got the original). If you didn't buy it from PEG and can't afford a new edition right now, there's a link HERE that has *all* the changes from every individual printing.
Velrek likes that change on the Sweep attack though. :)
In the 4th printing, the entangle condition included distracted and vulnerable. Then to break from the condition it said it was an athletics roll or Strength -2. It was not clear to me if those included the -2 from distracted or if the distracted penalty had to be added as well.
In the 5th printing, entangled only adds the vulnerable condition and the break free rolls are stated the same as before. I think that means they already applied the -2 penalty for distracted. Glad some of those things are clearer.
I think that means they already applied the -2 penalty for Distracted.
If you meant "they already HAD applied", meaning to the earlier description, it's clear that they hadn't, because the Athletics roll had no explicit penalty. So with the -2 from the Distracted, the old rolls were Athletics-2 or Strength-4. But that's all moot now...
Except they are saying how to break free from the entangled condition which automatically carries with it the penalty for distracted. I think they may have meant the rolls to be athletics +2 or strength and just incorporated the distracted penalty into the roll descriptions.
It seems Strength -4 is a pretty steep penalty for what is normally a pretty easy to escape condition. The odds are only 50% to succeed with a d12 strength using the -4 penalty and they drop to 25% at d8 down to 20% at d4.
As you say, moot now.