Oh forgot to do this:
[dice=Evesk Resist Pull]1d8
[dice=Evesk Wild Die]1d6Well it looks like Evesk is still vulnerable
If I do not like my current Benny reroll can I use another Benny to make another reroll?
Yes you can. The only thing that stops you from spending bennies to re-roll multiple times is running out of bennies or rolling a critical failure. When making re-rolls you take the best total of all the re-rolls unless you crit-fail which ends the re-rolling and becomes the roll that is used.
...
SWPF Bestiary pg 49-51. Earth Elemental. Earth Mastery "An earth elemental gets a free reroll on attack and damage rolls if both it and its target are touching the ground." This is listed under the base Earth Elemental on pg 50 but "Elementals" on pg 49 states that the Small and Elder versions have the same special abilities as the base form unless the specific form says otherwise.
In this case it would NOT grant the reroll vs. the rider (my bad) as they are not touching the ground. Attacking their mount wound allow the reroll so the benny is still required.
Okay 2nd Benny spent
Okay I give up -- apparently the psuedo-random number generator wants me to be vulnerable.
How does vulnerable affect Vesk's ability to attack (if any)?
Unfortunately with this edition of SW, they introduced "states" that your PC can be in. I didn't like this because I have a bad memory and it's much easier to remember that I'm at -2 to hit than that I'm "Distracted".
The two simplest states are :
Distracted : subtracts 2 from all Trait rolls until the end of his next turn.
Vulnerable : actions and attacks against the target are made at +2 until the end of his next turn.
Then Entangled means : you can’t move and are Vulnerable as long as you remain Entangled.
If you're Bound then : you may not Move, are Distracted and Vulnerable as long as you remain Bound, and cannot make physical
actions other than trying to break free.
Then, heaven forbid you should get Stunned :
• Are Distracted (this is removed at the end of the victim’s next turn as usual)
• Are Vulnerable (this remains until they recover from being Stunned)
• Fall prone (or to their knees, GM’s call)
• Can’t move or take any actions
• Don’t count toward the Gang Up bonus
While Distracted and Vulnerable by themselves only last one full turn, Entangled, Bound, and Stunned have their own rules for getting out of those conditions. You can look them up in the SW/PF core rules book.
Thanks for that Ceri -- the game is not waiting on me is it?
I mean Valrek was not supposed to be Evesk was it?
Oh wow, sorry! I've been checking in. Not sure how I missed that!
Looks like we're at initiative again.
Velrek is holding in a mighty Sweep of a swing with lots of bennies! Come on fate, give him a high card! :)
Looks like we're at initiative again.
Velrek is holding in a mighty Sweep of a swing with lots of bennies! Come on fate, give him a high card! :)
Fate did not listen but you can spend bennies to draw a new card. And both jokers are available at the moment......
Fate did not listen but you can spend bennies to draw a new card. And both jokers are available at the moment......Looks like we're at initiative again.
Velrek is holding in a mighty Sweep of a swing with lots of bennies! Come on fate, give him a high card! :)
Absolutely. I will Benny that! :)
With all the enemies drawing face cards, the odds of a better draw are fairly low IMHO. I'll save my bennies for rerolls.
With all the enemies drawing face cards, the odds of a better draw are fairly low IMHO. I'll save my bennies for rerolls.
True, getting better than a Jack is unlikely. Velrek got lucky.
Becoming Stunned (core pg 138) seems a reasonable result for a critical failure on a roll to un-shake. Do you think so? Too harsh? Too boring?
Critical Failures: This occurs when a 1 is rolled on both the Skill Die and the Wild Die of a Trait Roll.
• The attempt automatically fails
• This cannot be negated by any means, not even with Bennies
• Something else Bad Happens
Suggested Bad Things are: A weapon is dropped or gets stuck, the attack hits a friend, the vehicle crashes, a spell misfires, and so on.
Spell Misfire: A Critical Failure when activating a power is called a Backlash. It causes a level of Fatigue and all currently active powers instantly terminate.
Okay so a Critical Failure is fairly rare, and under most cases the penalty is a semi-lasting effect.
First I would say clarity on the Critical Failure conditions:
• A weapon is dropped in a way that is not easily recovered (such as dropped from a higher elevation to a lower elevation out of reach)
• A weapon is stuck in a way that is not easily recovered (will take several rounds of dedicated effort to free, or the creature it is stuck in must be killed first)
• A vehicle crashes, horse falls, etc... takes extended recover time and causes damage to the "vehicle"
• Spell Misfires already spelled out.
• The attack hits a friend -- imo No as this effects two characters rather than just the one, that is unless they both had a Critical Failure
Therefore examining the Critical Failure suggestions I concur that Stunned is a reasonable result for a Critical Failure on trying to recover from the Shaken condition. That or like Spell Backlash the character is Fatigued instead.
Either of those seem like a reasonable result of a Critical Failure based on the vague (now clarified) outline of what the bad results of a Critical Failure might be.
Still this is just my opinion and nothing more.
Stunned is a powerful handicap. You stay Stunned until you succeed at a Vigor roll that is at -2 for being Distracted on your first turn, then no penalty if you don't come out of it on your first try. In addition, you are at +2 to being hit by both melee and ranged weapons as long as you remain Stunned. You also can't move or take *any* Actions. And that -2 would affect your *next* Spirit roll as well to overcome the Shaken status.
I would suggest a simple Vulnerable (+2 to being hit), which by RAW automatically goes away at the end of your *next* turn. It's thematically appropriate, doesn't limit your actions, and only affects you for one turn, period. Oh, and you stay Shaken until you succeed at a Spirit roll as usual.
That was my impression at first but then I read up on all of the various things that happen with a Critical Failure (as listed in my previous post) -- all of these are generally multi-round disadvantages in some way.
Making the Critical Failure a simply disadvantage does not truly cover the Bad Thing that will happen category.
Although I did say that the GM could employ giving them a level of Fatigue instead just like on spell backlash.
I have graciously allowed the GM to demonstrate how the critical failure result plays out per Evesk's summary. :(
Again as noted -- yes I agree with Ceri -- Stunned is a powerful handicap but it is most likely not nearly as long lasting as Fatigue or Hit Point damage -- therefore I see it as a coin flip (aka GM discretion) to which they use.
I mean 1 level of Fatigue might seem minor compared to Stunned but get one more level of Fatigue and that suddenly changes dramatically. So it is a sort of smoking gun. Especially since you cannot hope to recover from Fatigue during combat or any time soon after combat.
Yeah, and you also become Incapacitated on only the 3rd Fatigue point, instead of on the 4th Wound. "Rest" is usually the only thing that removes Fatigue points (one per hour), unless they were inflicted by something special. And even 1 Fatigue point can reduce the chances of Success on *every* roll by 10-20%.
...time passes...
Ok, I couldn't help myself, I ran a simulation to see how long you typically stay out of action when Stunned (I've been programming for 50 years!). For a PC with a d6 or d8 for their Vigor and Spirit, on average it's 2 turns (for either die), with a typical maximum of 3 turns, and a small possibility of lasting as long as 5-6 turns.
That's 2-3 (but up to 5!) turns of no actions, and a +2 to be hit by any melee or ranged weapon by any and all opponents. I'll let everyone decide on their own if that's too harsh or not.
Well it is harsh but is is also very rare. Plus it will not be the result of a crit fail every time you make a soak roll. I just couldn't think of a better result. Normally I will try to use a crit fail to advance/cause an event to the detriment of the side or person who blew the roll.
I'll let this stand for now and come up with something better next time.
It will be interesting to see what you come up with next time, when/if it happens. As really, I am not sure myself what I would do as a GM for a situation like this. Still sometimes the KISS result is the best result and Stunned or Fatigued are the obvious KISS results based on the parameters the guidelines outline for that "bad thing" that happens.
I mean the 2 to 3 (maybe up to 5 if really unlucky) rounds is about on par with the other bad things the guidelines outline happening for such a situation. Especially if one factors in the rarity of getting a 1 on both die rolls at the same time. Perhaps Ceri might want to run the probability of that occurring but if you do, just keep in mind that whatever pseudo random number generator you use if it is not the one used here will have different results. Also, if you run these sporadically versus sequentially those results could vary quite a bit, depending on how this pseudo random number generator works.
This is to say no matter what pseudo random number generator you use, the numbers are never truly random, as it is based on some kind of algorithm which given the same parameters produces the same results.
For Jzero's CF for example it seemed quick and thematic to just trade the dog's status for his. It seemed a good way to keep in the theme of a vicious street-fight.
I understand the nature of pseudo-random numbers, so I ran 10,000 trials of each scenario with a different sequence of random numbers each time. Rounding to the first decimal place, the number of rounds you're out of action doesn't change between runs with the same dice (like 3.2), so the integer number of rounds I listed (3) is definitely constant.
You don't even need to simulate how often a Critical Failure happens, just use probability :
1 on a d6 : 0.16666
1 on a d8 : 0.125
So getting two 1's on a d6 and a d6 is 0.16666*0.16666 = 0.02777 = 2.8%
And getting two 1's on a d6 and a d8 is 0.16666*0.125 = 0.0208 = 2.1%
Okay so potentially an extremely rare occurrence which I am assuming is why the guidelines place that fairly hefty penalty upon the result of that critical failure.
Although, granted we have had it happen twice thus far.
My work schedule has changed. For the next five weeks, I'll be unable to post generally after 3 PM (same time zone as New York City) on Monday through Thursday. I'll check games in the morning and make what posts I can.
Also, I may be traveling on April 6-9. I should have some access to Wifi and a laptop, but if a post is needed in this period, please
'bot my character. It's possible the trip will not happen, in which case I'll let you know. (I'm hoping to see the total solar eclipse on April 8 in Ohio, USA.)
I'm back and getting caught up on posts.
We may have lost Mirri. No posts anywhere in some time. No response to a PM.
Have we lost Mirri? Should we bot for now?
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It's been ten months since the start of this campaign and we are still in the opening combat event. I like my character and the world and the system, but when it takes so long to see any progress, it drains most of the fun out of it. I'd like to see things get back to everyone posting every day so we can close this out and move on.
I check all my campaigns every day and post when there is something to respond to. I know life sometimes causes delays, but when the delays are chronic, then it's hard to keep the narrative momentum going.
I concur Jzero and being a GM on this forum I understand just how hard it is to keep things moving forward steadily due to players not responding in a timely manner as such I have been moving to a minimal GM posting rate of once per 3 days (assuming my life allows me to even do that all the time) and moving things forward by ghosting a PC if necessary whenever a PC has not posted within that window time. Also, combat goes like this side A goes then side B goes -- with side A or B being the bad guys and the good guys depending on which side won the initiative and the only time where that might not fully apply is the first round based on the individual iniative rolls (which if this GM wishes that I explain I can do so using examples).
Hopefully our GM can adopt something similar in order to allow things to speed up some. However, personally as a player I am not deterred by prolonged delays as I have found that even if everyone has the best of intentions (including myself) they are not always able to deliver on those best intentions as RL steps up to squash those best intentions as RL always, always trumps playing games.
Very eloquent, Evesk!
I used to check every one of my 6 games every day, and not much would happen (from anyone) for days up to a week. Then I got real involved in a personal project, and started checking every 3-4 days. No real difference.
I allow the GMs to disappear for a few days, just as I hope my players would allow me the same courtesy, because RL happens.
I'm in IT so i'm in front of my computer a few hours a day. I check in two to three times a day during the week unless I get busy.
While a little more speed would be appreciated, I'm just happy to play this one. I'm enjoying the story, have never played or read it. Enjoying the system and both Velrek here and everyone else's characters.
Savage Worlds unique initiative system does not play well with PBP format, alas. Not sure how changing that would affect various edges that give benefits to the initiative process.
When I GM, if circumstances will prevent me from posting, there is still usually time to post a heads up message in the discussion page giving an estimate of when I will post next. As a player I try to do the same.
Continuing this game at a slow pace is preferable to ending it, however, it is a lot less interesting and I can't see us getting the benefit out of the effort to provide the Pathfinder Adventure Path in its entirety if there is no chance of us getting through it before the end of the decade.
Regarding the posting glitches Ceri describes, I've never experienced that. I use Chrome browser. The main problems I encounter are getting that message about exceeding a 30 minute time limit, even when it may be literally less than a minute between starting the post and posting it.
I always save my text entry on the clipboard so I don't lose the post when that happens. It mostly happens when I'm updating the profile, however.
Jzero - I'm just curious how SW's initiative system is "unique"? In d20 and its derivatives, you roll a 20 sided die. In SW, you get a card from 1 to 13. Then in either system, you act in order depending on the number. Seems to me it's the PBP format that's the problem, what with people either having to wait days until their number is up, or everyone posting at once and making the DM sort out the actual order of actions.
Most systems, the initiative order is rolled at the start and then it does not change unless someone delays an action. SW it gets shuffled each round.
Then there are all the options for adjusting the order, like edges that let you draw a second card and take your preferred one. Each round, someone could also spend a benny to draw a new card. Plus if someone gets the joker, they get to choose when to take their turn. In PBP mode, that means the GM must give a certain amount of time each round for people to exercise these choices.
Around a table top, the GM just needs to give everyone a minute to decide if they want to draw a new card etc. In PBP, this minute turns into a day.
Also, in systems like Pathfinder, many GMs use block initiative, which puts all PCs in a block and they can post and take their turn in any order.
Yeah I concur, if I were the GM for a PbP version of this game (like the one we are playing) I would figure out a more simplistic initiative systems that still allowed for the various benefits -- or I would channel those various benefits in a slightly different way.
However, in the end, when it comes to PbP the block initiative process is extremely much easier than individual intiatives and saves incredible amounts of time.
That being said if this GM were to choose block initiative I am sure some of us could help them brainstorm methods to cover all those other nuances in a way that allowed them to be effective but still fit within the current block style.
Of course the static who goes first and second is also much more preferable for a PbP as well and frankly does not make that much of a difference in the long run. Sure in specific instances it might factor in but that is usually a small fraction and maybe this is where some of those other abilities might play in to still allow a sort of semi-dynamic initiative on an individual basis. Like adding a Reaction for a specific character and such.
Also instead of rolling a 1d20+Init Bonus I much prefer a 1d10 or 1d12 plus Init Bonus as this means that Init Bonus plays in much greater (as it should IMO) than it currently does. With the 1d12 representing 0.5 seconds and 1d10 representing 0.6 seconds -- assuming one round is 6 seconds.
I wonder if the following might work. At the start of a new round, everyone posts under a spoiler explaining what actions they want to attempt, perhaps with plan B ideas. They make any rolls, also under the spoiler. The GM does the same for NPCs. Then the GM deals the cards to determine the order and uses the rolls to narrate events.
The GM could notify a player of a significant change in the field of play that would make the intended action impossible, such as if someone else kills the NPC you were planning to attack. If the GM were skilled and the players game for some unexpected events, it could keep things moving better than the often random sequence of posting.
Yeah done that and while it sounds good it rarely works as nicely as it sounds.
As it is I, as a GM, have to keep track of the combat, which many DMs do not even attempt. However in keeping track of combat the less complicated it is of course makes the tracking of it less complicated and far less time consuming. The latter of those two being the most important element. As this is a game, a hobby, and while I take on the responsibility of being the GM I do get to factor in the amount of time that becomes required of me to implement that game and frankly combat in PbP is perhaps the most time consuming thing I have to do everytime it crops up which in an RPG game is fairly often.
Lastly we are discussing means of streamlining combat, to make it easier for the DM or GM to implement so that the game moves forward more quickly and smoothly. To this end making it more simplistic is the best answer for as soon as you bring in contingencies the complexity becomes exponential in the amount of time the DM or GM must commit to.
Final Note: It is usually excessive time requirements that leads to DM/GM burn out. Which is why one as a DM or GM should look to ways to reduce their time requirements so that they will not become subject to burnout. As that becomes a win-win scenario for everyone
All fair points. When I GM Pathfinder games, I keep a text file with the initiative order and track actions taken as each PC or NPC turn is taken. I try and track spell buffs or debuffs in place, conditions imposed, damage taken, and what actions were taken by each character. In PF this is pretty straightforward and I usually reproduce aspects of the file to help the players keep track of the same sorts of things. It would be more complicated if the initiative order shifted at the start of each new round.
I can't imagine what is necessary for SW, as it has a very different set of conditions to track. Perhaps the biggest drawback for PBP with SW is the ever present possibility of the players or GM using bennies, plus things like soak rolls and rolls to recover from certain conditions.
Yep I do pretty much what you do Jzero, keep text file where I track each rounds actions and the final results from which I post a Status Spoiler. Of course I keep track of each round separately in case I make a mistake in a previous round (which I have done on occasion).
Now some games lend themselves better to PbP while others are much more FtF mostly. As such I would look at SW and go, okay how am I going to make this PbP friendly because as you have pointed it that it aint.
Still without a GM it is kind of moot. Hopefully they will return soon.
This is more than academic for me since I'm considering eventually working up to a PBP Steampunk game using SW rules. It's not likely to happen before I retire (later this year).
It wouldn't bother me if we are dealt one round of cards at the beginning of the melee, and we stayed in that order for the rest of the combat. I understand that the SW creators wanted more randomness each round to make things more interesting (like effects that "end at the end of your next round" could come at the beginning or end of the next round), but I can sacrifice that for PbP convenience. This would simplify the DM's job tremendously, as now keeping track of spell or effect durations becomes much easier.
Edges that deal you extra cards are no problem, the GM deals that PC however many cards they get at the start of melee, and the player picks which one to use for the rest of the combat. If a Joker is drawn, its effects only last for the first round.
I don't know how I feel about "blocking" the PCs and bad-guys into a single initiative for the entire combat. If I have a small group of bad guys, I will block them into one initiative card, but doing that for the PCs seems a bit dodgy. The group that always goes first probably has a cumulative benefit from always acting before the other.
I can't see any way Jzero's concerns about using Bennies during each round can be simplified. You only use Bennies when something bad happens, and that can't be predicted in advance. And I'm *not* writing a long spoiler post about attacking that creature, and if I miss or if I'm hit or affected by something, I'll re-roll with a Benny if I have 2 or 3 Bennies, but not just one. There's just too many variables to cover.
I think it really comes down to both the GM and the players committing to checking at least once a day (I used to, religiously, until I started a project about 6 months ago that started sucking up all my free time) for the melees to move quickly.
Yeah, most of the issues are minor if the GM and players are posting every day. Our GM has been AWOL for long stretches, which is part of why we're still on the first encounter started months ago.
I just hope we haven't lost our GM. Even at a slower pace i'm really enjoying the game and the rest of you. :)
What Velrek said! I hope PWGM is ok...
I PM'd PWGM a week ago, no response so far, which is not a good sign.
What Velrek said! I hope PWGM is ok...
I PM'd PWGM a week ago, no response so far, which is not a good sign.
Keep in mind that PWGM did say that they were haivng computer issues and were trying to post by phone. That was not even a month ago (May 11th).
This is why I try to add so many people here in Discord so that I have a reliable place to communicate with them which is designed for an app interface versus a browser interface.
Resources sometimes being limited, I have nothing but empathy when people say they have tech issues because the fixes are rarely inexpensive :)
Good luck guys!
I'm thinking of maybe running this PbP myself. I don't have PWGM's permission to do this, but that's because they won't respond to my PM's. We'd all keep our PC's, I'd just follow the AP.
Anyone still around and interested?
I would love to keep playing. Would hate losing you as part of the playing group though. :)
I know it's been a while. Still hoping PWGM might come back. I can't imagine running this off a phone...
Heh - *no way* I'm giving up the PC I labored over for so long, and is unlike any SW PC I've ever made. ;) I'm pretty sure I can run her separate from any GM knowledge.
Even thru a phone, they could still could have made small posts just to let us know they're around.
I'm game.
I am here and I am okay with whatever transpires. I have myself picked up games to keep them moving forward but usually I get GM permission first. However if we have lost are DM which happens from time to time I see no reason not to continue forward -- it is a shame thought that a PC has to be changed into an NPC. Therefore Ceri if you like I could co-GM with you thus allowing your character to still remain as a more of an PC rather than a full NPC controlled by the GM.