The Flaxseed Pathfinder Lodge: Explore, Report, Cooperate!

Game Master Redelia

All this discussion about RP expecations, leads me to a question that's been on my mind recently. How do other GMs handle a player not meeting your expectations, when the expectations were laid out before the game began? I have a player that continually posts just dice, and every now and then maybe a few words, but never more than a very short sentence. Do you PM them and ask them to reread the expectations that were laid out? Do you not allow them in future games you run, but suck it up for the current one?

Personally I would try not to disrupt the game by removing a player if at all possible.

I agree, something would have to be quite extreme to remove them mid game, and I would not advocate that for just a lack of roleplay. They would have to be repeatedly offending the group or some other extreme infraction for it to be taken that far.

Generally, I'll just keep it in mind for future games. I always like to open my recruitment for at least 24h to get a nice spread of applicants from all over the world. This invariably leads to more applicants than seats. If I have a player who consistently has been way behind post rate or generally obstructive to a game I'll likely just ignore them from consideration. As long as they haven't been in full violation of rules though I'll let them in to make a legal table, but I often like to extend personal invitations to players who have stood out in other games of mine, or people who have GM'd for me lately.

I try to suck it up, and have them play as they would like to play. Unfortunately, I am not as eloquent as others when it comes to others when describing what my characters do, but I am getting better, as it is more of a learning experience for myself, since normally I can by quite curt with my responses and whatnot. Play by post has helped me expand my characters, which has helped in face to face games as well.

Maybe offer examples of what one would like for a bit more immersion, but not be overly stringent on how one plays their character?

All this discussion about RP expecations, leads me to a question that's been on my mind recently. How do other GMs handle a player not meeting your expectations, when the expectations were laid out before the game began? I have a player that continually posts just dice, and every now and then maybe a few words, but never more than a very short sentence. Do you PM them and ask them to reread the expectations that were laid out? Do you not allow them in future games you run, but suck it up for the current one?

I generally just let them be, shift focus to the other players, and remember the "bad apple" for my future games. There isn't anything wrong with that play style, but that doesn't mean that it fits your GM'ing style.

So what types of players do GMs find more problematic?

Those that post once or twice a week and when doing so have not read what's going on and make tactically unsound decisions?

Or those who post on regular basis but do so briskly and rarely do anything to move the game along?

Those who don't catch up would be the most problematic, I would say. As for tactically unsound decicions, I can say that some of my characters have done them, which had become quite an advantage, or just plain humorous. Kyra trying to jump the river in The Confirmation was one of my better "bad mistakes" decisions, as it made the whole table laugh.

I've only GM'd one PbP game, but for me the most frustrating was the one who said he would be out for a few weeks, and then simply never returned. I botted him through several combats, expecting he'd come back and not wanting him to be left behind. This only added to my workload, for what turned out to be no benefit.

So I guess the core problem was lack of communication from the player. If he had said he wasn't returning, it would've been fine.

I find those who only join my games to participate in combat alone to be the most problematic, and I admit that I do keep track of those who do this and they're that less likely to be chosen when I run a subsequent game. This is a story-driven game. If you're ignoring all of the NPC interaction and opportunities to roleplay with them (and with your fellow players), you might as well be playing Baldur's Gate on fast forward, pausing only for combat and combat alone.

That said, my experience playing PFS on these boards has been almost entirely positive, with most players being pretty darn good at consistently impressing me with their unique, well thought out characters and antics. Seeing such deep backstories and rich personalities always inspires me to invest more heavily into my own characters.

My experience with PFS *as a whole* has been:

Those who try to push the party into pure death vagrant mode unless the GM specifically notes that yes, indeed, the scenario is a death vagrant scenario with little variation end up disrupting the table, causing difficulties with the roleplay mode of the side of the table.

Unfortunately, these problems haven't arisen until after the second or third encounter, when it has become mechanically and mathematically difficult for the rest of the party to suffer the loss of said given player and their character.

I cannot say that the *opposite* is true, though.

Every scenario where someone has attempted some form of roleplay has either led to interesting reactions from NPCs as well as the other players, and in some cases did things for the GM that the GM wasn't expecting the party to address.

Please note, the third rail itself (roll-play vs. role-play) isn't being discussed here, but rather the personal anecdotal experience that I've had at tables over the past couple of years.

Others may have had different experiences, but I'm pretty confident on mine.

For the most part, I think this is just a fact of life for RPGs. If a table has participants who enjoy different playing styles, somebody is going to have less fun. Unfortunately, the only way to build a homogeneous table is to exclude people, and Paizo has explicitly said they want to "Acknowledge different styles of role-play and their presence in the Pathfinder Society." We're stuck with each other, for better or worse :-)

A lot of it has to do with maturity, as anyone who has played with kids knows. No-one plays a murder hobo like an 8 year old (or someone who thinks like an 8 year old)

Sometimes it is lack of time. Posts get terse and the player may only engage in combat because the posts for that are usually less demanding.

Then again sometimes a player just wants to play a muscle headed barbarian. I've seen players that could turn on a dime from a 'grok hit you' mentality to the quintessential bard face.

Sometimes I come through the character creation process with an adequately fleshed out persona, sometimes I've managed only to put the crunchy bits together and have to work that out during play. PCs that fall into the later bucket usually lead to shorter posts on my part as I haven't quite figured out how they would think and act.

I also tend to be more mechanical and less narrative in combat. That's probably more habitual than anything else. Growing up playing D&D around a table whenever we got into combat it mostly became a numbers game. Roll dice, announce AC, announce damage. We never really tried to flesh out a narrative for our combat actions. That has carried through to my play style today.

Another possibility for sparse narrative is that I'm too busy to write something longer but don't want to hold up the game.

A final possibility is that I've started to lose interest in the game for one reason or another. If it were a long campaign I'd take that as a sign that it is time to drop out. But for PFS scenarios they are usually short enough that I just slog through them.

I find it interesting that you say that, Michael, because Chak is one of the most charming RP characters I've had the delight to GM for.

I will admit that I'm an unabashed story GM. I love to play up the roleplay in my games, and I recruit for that in the PFS PbPs that I run. Play-by-post is a long haul. If I'm spending three weeks or longer with you, I want a group that will be silly with me.

What I love is that there is a wide range of play styles here, and lots of different options to embrace them.

Vive la difference!
Hmm

Chak was one of those PCs I fully fleshed out a personality before playing him. Some characters take a few sessions for me to figure out (my kensai magus for example), others, like my vishkanya bard, I still haven't found her personality yet.

I usually have a general backstory for my characters, but I find their personalities really reveal themselves when they begin their adventuring career. So usually the first several scenarios they play in decide their personality for the rest of their career.

I build backstory at the table.

I try to have a basic backstory, but I usually end up regretting it if I come up with too much prior to the game.

I tend not to worry too much about backstory in PFS, but what I do like is to find a "voice" for my characters.

Sometimes this is easier than others, and generally the longer they have been played, the stronger the voice gets. Thus Iso always refers to himself in the third person, Rhuul is always making jokes, Fargrim thinks about motivations etc.

Some of these have happened in game as a consequence of a scenario, some just by choice at the start and others just happen through interactions. Worrying too much about the in-depth motivations of my first level characters is often more work than is required. In PBP I tend to find that if I can get a single "trick" that makes the character memorable and stand out from the twenty other barbarians armed with a greataxe you are doing pretty well. The rest of the personality grows with the character.

I have to try very hard to make my characters Roleplay and not just ROLL play. Its something I struggle with.

I try to add more flavor as a GM though, especially adding to combat.

I tend not to worry too much about backstory in PFS, but what I do like is to find a "voice" for my characters.

Sometimes this is easier than others, and generally the longer they have been played, the stronger the voice gets. Thus Iso always refers to himself in the third person, Rhuul is always making jokes, Fargrim thinks about motivations etc.

Some of these have happened in game as a consequence of a scenario, some just by choice at the start and others just happen through interactions. Worrying too much about the in-depth motivations of my first level characters is often more work than is required. In PBP I tend to find that if I can get a single "trick" that makes the character memorable and stand out from the twenty other barbarians armed with a greataxe you are doing pretty well. The rest of the personality grows with the character.

This is a very legitimate strategy. I often do this with my characters of I can't think of a backstory/personality/quirks. Sometimes my best characters end up being done like this.

^Yeah, the two things I consider with a new PFS character is their reason(s) for joining the Society and a very general idea of their personality, usually something that can be summarized with a couple of words. Then I go from there, adding to the character as I play them and discover their voice. Characters for non-PFS PbPs are much more likely to get a fleshed out backstory before I begin playing them.

I go as far as to make a personality/ voice note to myself in each of my character's profiles.

I start with a base character from book or movie and then note key phases, idioms or quirks to their speech. This with at least a couple sentences of why they joined. I recall one of my players or GM's had a who/what/where/why template for details on all their characters. Very well done.

Posting from my nephews cell. My internet is completly kaput. Will be back hopefully Thursday. Maybe not till Friday. If you are in one of my pbps could you share the news in discussion. Thanks

^ This is the sort of GM notification that I like to see.

Thanks, Pirate Rob, and I hope your internet comes back soon.

Hmm

I'm not the greatest at the roleplay thing, though I have managed to give a few of my longer-standing players some personality when they talk (namely Bizzle, Quiven, August and Jaysin). I never got a great feel for Faldoc, despite him being my highest. I've gotten better with Nivik, though I'm not too sure with him sometimes.

August is my favorite BDF I have played with. And GM'd for.

Posting from my nephews cell. My internet is completly kaput. Will be back hopefully Thursday. Maybe not till Friday. If you are in one of my pbps could you share the news in discussion. Thanks

I've spread the word a bit, Rob, hope you get it all sorted out soon

Posting from my nephews cell. My internet is completly kaput. Will be back hopefully Thursday. Maybe not till Friday. If you are in one of my pbps could you share the news in discussion. Thanks

Noted. Think you're in one of my games. lol

Hey, it's stopped raining and I have some internet again. (50/50 if it'll be up, gotta make sure to copy and paste before posting)

With the rain having stopped, even though they haven't gone to fix it yet I suspect having the internet junction merely wet instead of under 15ft of water has gone a long way to making it work some of the time.

I'm slowly making my way back through things this morning. Just north of 100 unread posts, eek.

Get yo'self the Lazarus extension, Rob.

Lazarus saves posts!

Lazarus extension?

Lazarus (links to both Chrome version and Firefox version)

Has saved my posts SO many times.

Awesome. Thanks!

Does Lazarus work on mobile devices like ipads?

Hmm

Well, they've fixed the wires and patched the box, they say they are going to go back underground sometime in the next 2 weeks because the box needs replacing.

So if it rains again will their patch hold, will I still have internet? Find out next episode, same Pirate time, same Pirate channel.

PS

Also thanks for the Lazarus recommendation, I've installed it, hopefully it saves me some trouble in the future.

I will certainly look into that extension as well.. sounds helpful.

Bah! So many good games that I want in on, but I am still too overloaded from GD, and with Blood of Absalom coming up, I don't dare take anything else on!

I took over a game, which is now finished. I seem to recall there is someone to mail to get the game closed out. Can someone remind me who that is?

Actually, an FAQ for how to take over a game would be an excellent addition to the "Campaign" header tab.

I mailed all my info off to Jesse (Iron Helixx). His email is ironhelixx@gmail.com

There is also this link to the reporting page:
https://pbpgameday.com/reporting.php

That's a good idea - Thanks for the suggestion.

I took over a game, which is now finished. I seem to recall there is someone to mail to get the game closed out. Can someone remind me who that is?

Actually, an FAQ for how to take over a game would be an excellent addition to the "Campaign" header tab.

I am very excited to announce two new members of the PFS Online VO corp

I took over a game, which is now finished. I seem to recall there is someone to mail to get the game closed out. Can someone remind me who that is?

Actually, an FAQ for how to take over a game would be an excellent addition to the "Campaign" header tab.

Scribbles note. Adds to to-do list.

__

QUICK OVERVIEW of your current Online Venture Team

Venture Captain Jesse Davis aka IronHelixx
In charge of all PFS Online Play

Venture Lieutenant Jen McTeague aka Iammars and GM Mars

Venture Lieutenant Hilary Moon Murphy aka GM Hmm

Venture Agent Mike Tuholski, aka Endless Forms of Flaxseed

Venture Agent Michael Hallet, aka "Son of Meepo" on Mythweavers

We're here to help, answer questions, and keep things moving smoothly. I hope that all this helps! I'm primarily assigned to the PBP communities. Jen is split between PbP and VTT. Mike Toholski is the VA for all things Flaxseed, and Michael Hallet the VA for all things Mythweavers.

All of us are here for you, should you need it.

Hugs,
Hmm

Actually, an FAQ for how to take over a game would be an excellent addition to the "Campaign" header tab.

How to Adopt a Game

This is a quick draft. I'd love for suggestions and feedback on how to make it better!

Mike has offered to add a link to this to the Flaxseed Campaign Tab.

Hmm

Many thanks. That looks good.

Is there a PM location you can use for Paizo boards, or do you need to send a real email?

OOOh an expansion of the Online VO team!

That's awesome to see!

GM Humm, you may want to add a note that it may take a little while for the game to be reassigned. In my case it was about 2 weeks from when I sent the request.

1) Introduce yourself in discussion as a potential replacement GM. Take the game's pulse. Ask who's still here. Mention your preferred posting rate.

Introduce yourself, and if applicable, the party member who put out the request you are responding to. Verify with the party that they are also of a majority opinion that they are happy for you to pick up the game. Should they not be ready/waiting for the old GM still, let them know what your best means of communication are for when they make a decision.

***

I have had a few groups where players hummed and hawwed and just didn't have their act together, and it is pretty frustrating to be honest. By all means, dick me around when I'm volunteering my time to help out...

Many thanks. That looks good.

Is there a PM location you can use for Paizo boards, or do you need to send a real email?

You need to use a real email to contact Paizo for transfer of play-by-post games.

GM Humm, you may want to add a note that it may take a little while for the game to be reassigned. In my case it was about 2 weeks from when I sent the request.

Oh! With all the filk that I do, I love being called "GM Hum!" That's a really cute typo!

I've now edited it to indicate that there can be a wait. I've seen a time of anywhere between 2 weeks (slowest) and 2 hours (fastest) for transfer. The two hour one happened when I included a screenshot of the other GM's PM saying 'Please take this game from me!'

It's really variable, but removing their need to investigate can speed things up.

Introduce yourself, and if applicable, the party member who put out the request you are responding to. Verify with the party that they are also of a majority opinion that they are happy for you to pick up the game. Should they not be ready/waiting for the old GM still, let them know what your best means of communication are for when they make a decision.

I've updated the orphan games document. This is great stuff. Thanks, Shifty!

Hmm