What Ancestries are you still craving?

[HumbleGamer]

Saedar wrote:

OTOH: I think entire groups of sapient entities being ultimately unable to decide how to act is incredibly boring. Different strokes. I would much rather completely end alignment or, as a compromise, completely remove alignment as a characteristic describing ancestries (including pure outsiders).

I am up for removing it completely.

When I was younger, it was an average way ( it has never been a good one though ) to point out how a character or creature would have behave.

Now, in this 2e explicitly, it's a missing occasion to add different damage type ( and sencodary effects as well ) to either enemies and players.

Not to say that I still find silly a true neutral being unable to receive any kind of alignment damage, as well as the issues many players are facing with neutral deities.

IIRC, there's the Shadow/Light variant which I'd like to try.
Someday, maybe.

[Karmagator]

WWHsmackdown wrote:

Karmagator wrote:

The way Mark has furthered the development of the actually monstrous ancestries is very interesting to me. As in actually monsters or at least usually NPC-only things like full celestials Not just the actual mechanical undercarriage adjusted for player use, but actually going into the problems such an options poses in a group environment and in-lore explanations to make all of this practical. In particular, the fact that player options should follow the general theme, but don't necessarily need to strictly adhere to every single detail and the cultural impact that has - non-evil chromatic dragons for example. Or sentient oozes. Thankfully the upcoming undead ancestries/archetypes are already a big step in that direction.

The most radical and interesting idea for me when following that line of thinking is a redeemed fiend converted by Nocticula. Being able to do that would be amazing.

So to make a long story short, as long as we are taking such bold steps beyond the relatively normal ancestries, I'm game for nearly anything.

I think redeemed fiends are fine if you have an important (and exceedingly rare) npc like noticula but every single outsider having the capacity to change their nature when they are an explicit manifestation of that particular nature makes them a little less interesting for me. I'd feel like it's more of a color swapped mortal that lives on a different plane than a being of concentrated emotion of a particular type. If I wanted a redeemed fiend or a fallen angel I'd play trifling or aasimar respectively bc free will and self determination is still very much important to a being that's only half outsider.

I'm perfectly fine with it being exceedingly rare, like, single digit numbers rare. Beings with such strong inherent attitudes on top of being potentially hundreds or thousands of years old aren't going to be convinced without extreme measures or circumstances. Most wouldn't even see a reason to even think about changing sides.

But with "fallen" celestials being a very popular theme for ages even in real-world religious history, much less fantasy, why shouldn't the reverse be possible? Outsiders in PF are clearly not 100% unchanging and are capable of free thought. If anything, the odd anomaly makes things more interesting in my opinion.

[Malfinn Eurilios]

Golurkcanfly wrote:

Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:

drow

Aren't those covered under the Cavern Elf Heritage?

Best thing about pf2 is no drow pc’s.

[graystone]

Malfinn Eurilios wrote:

Golurkcanfly wrote:

Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:

drow

Aren't those covered under the Cavern Elf Heritage?

Best thing about pf2 is no drow pc’s.

... *send the serpentfolk after him*

[Dubious Scholar]

Nagaji and Samsarans would be nice, sure.

But I think my bigger issue is the general lack of ancestry feats for newer options. It wasn't really an issue in 1e since all the feats were a single giant pool, but there's ancestries that have maybe 2 or 3 level 5 options and one of them is the weapon proficiency line and... yeah.

Sure, Adopted Ancestry is an option at 3 to get more things open, but... I kind of wish there was a general ancestry feats list of some kind to help fill in the gaps? Or just some supplements to flesh them out. At this point it's mostly just the new stuff added in LOAG that's suffering there, but it feels like most of the non-core races really hurt for appealing options sometimes.

[pixierose]

a couple of people mentioned Vanara and yes I would love their return!

I would also say I agree with wanting some more ancestry feats and deeper lore for the ones that we do have.

(especially for the players who okay with the ancestry paragon rules)

[HumbleGamer]

pixierose wrote:

I would also say I agree with wanting some more ancestry feats and deeper lore for the ones that we do have.

(especially for the players who okay with the ancestry paragon rules)

In addition to that, I'd like to see:

1) Adjustments to some of the already existing ones ( like summoning spells, offensive spells, stuff which rely on counteract or DC, etc... mostly this ).

2) 2 ancestry feats by lvl 1. Maybe it's just me, but I find rather silly not being able to choose a liniage as well as another one feat "only available at lvl 1". Or, to make an example, a half orc with either tusks and darkvision.

Or maybe something which allows a character to spend in advance his ancestral paragon feat. Having 1 extra feat by lvl 1 rather than waiting lvl 3 shouldn't harm too much ( should it? ).

[pixierose]

HumbleGamer wrote:

pixierose wrote:

I would also say I agree with wanting some more ancestry feats and deeper lore for the ones that we do have.

(especially for the players who okay with the ancestry paragon rules)

In addition to that, I'd like to see:

1) Adjustments to some of the already existing ones ( like summoning spells, offensive spells, stuff which rely on counteract or DC, etc... mostly this ).

2) 2 ancestry feats by lvl 1. Maybe it's just me, but I find rather silly not being able to choose a liniage as well as another one feat "only available at lvl 1". Or, to make an example, a half orc with either tusks and darkvision.

Or maybe something which allows a character to spend in advance his ancestral paragon feat. Having 1 extra feat by lvl 1 rather than waiting lvl 3 shouldn't harm too much ( should it? ).

What i'm referring to do does just that

https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=1336

[HumbleGamer]

pixierose wrote:

HumbleGamer wrote:

pixierose wrote:

I would also say I agree with wanting some more ancestry feats and deeper lore for the ones that we do have.

(especially for the players who okay with the ancestry paragon rules)

In addition to that, I'd like to see:

1) Adjustments to some of the already existing ones ( like summoning spells, offensive spells, stuff which rely on counteract or DC, etc... mostly this ).

2) 2 ancestry feats by lvl 1. Maybe it's just me, but I find rather silly not being able to choose a liniage as well as another one feat "only available at lvl 1". Or, to make an example, a half orc with either tusks and darkvision.

Or maybe something which allows a character to spend in advance his ancestral paragon feat. Having 1 extra feat by lvl 1 rather than waiting lvl 3 shouldn't harm too much ( should it? ).

What i'm referring to do does just that

https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=1336

oh, didn't know that ( I though you meant ancestral paragon. Not everything makes sense ).

Really cool stuff to give more color to characters.

[Loreguard]

Ok, I'm leaning towards the following:

Minotaur: for me they would have to be large (especially at low level), but I know people have talked about option of large without necessarily having greater than the standard 5' reach.

Centaur: this seems appropriate option with their presence on the isle of Kortos. Harder to imagine them being Medium. More like a halfling version of Centaur. But might use the option of large without greater reach option, such as above.

Wemic: Had an old character that thoughts of Centaur brought up. If they come up with the Centaur, it seems like much of the same mechanics could be applied to enabling a Wemic Ancestry.

Pulling more into the setting from Castrovel, since we already have elves and elf gates.
Lashunta:
Formian:

Borrowing another significant Ancestry from Starfinder
Kasatha: The idea of showing how multiple hands could be handled in a viable, but balance way seems like a definite contribution to the setting. They also seem like they would work wonderfully in a fantasy setting.

Merfolk: I think mermaids and mermen are iconic enough in fantasy that there is space for them beside the Gillmen as a player ancestry.

Adding some more faerie representation/options:
Nymphs:
Satyrs:

Ok this one I don't think would happen out of Paizo, since it really conflicts too much with Serpentfolk and other Serpent-type races established in their setting already. I'm listing it because I'd love to see rules for it in 2nd edition done with great flavor, and balanced rules that make sense.
Yaunti-like serpent race: (humanoid torso, snake somewhere below shoulders potentially down to waste)

Honorable-mention (admittedly hard to necessarily take seriously)
Skittermander: Because they are iconic in StarFinder, I doubt they would come to Pathfinder officially as a player choice. But it would be fun to create a few Skittermander fantasy characters, even if I didn't get to play them in an adventure.

[Grankless]

I would like to see oozes, minotaurs, versatile-Mortics, and I guess wyvarans though I'd prefer some sort of draconic versatile heritage.

Generally I'd love to see more new ones considering how insanely cool a lot of the new ones have been.

Honorable mention to ghorans because they're insane. Love them.

[PossibleCabbage]

I really want Cecaelias back. They're culturally super fun (curious, shameless, kind of doofy, but super proud of their supposed history), the aquatic ancestry that has the least trouble on land (except for "when buying pants"), and genuinely cool looking.

[graystone]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

(except for "when buying pants")

Pants

[keftiu]

Pleasantly surprised with all the Minotaur love ITT!

[Set]

Gnolls and Lizardfolk were my two primaries, and they're both already things, so I'm delighted. Already got aquatic elves, I think, and definitely already got Tengu and maybe even Ratfolk/Ysoki? (I don't have every 2e book yet...)

I have a lesser fascination with Caligni, Reptoids, Samsarans, Vishkanya, Wayang, etc. but it's not like I've actually ever played one of these...

An insect (ant or mantid) race like Aspis, Phraint, Thri-Kreen, Xixchil or Formians could be interesting. I'm less interested in bee-peeps (Thriae?) or scorpion-taur-peeps (I don't even remember what they were called).

And yeah, the Freeport Companion for PF (from Green Ronin) really whet my appetite for playable Serpentfolk!

[keftiu]

I’m pretty vehemently opposed to Reptoids, given their hateful real-world roots. I honestly wish they weren’t in the game at all.

(For anyone unaware, they have their roots in the deeply antisemitic conspiracy theory.)

[graystone]

keftiu wrote:

Pleasantly surprised with all the Minotaur love ITT!

I demand minitaurs! Small sized minotaur's with an inferiority complex! ;)

keftiu wrote:

I’m pretty vehemently opposed to Reptoids, given their hateful real-world roots.

That's not really the roots though: shapechanging reptile people go back to Robert E. Howard's "The Shadow Kingdom", published in Weird Tales in August 1929. The "serpent men" were described as humanoids (with human bodies and snake heads) who were able to imitate humans at will, and who lived in underground passages and used their shapechanging and mind-control abilities to infiltrate humanity.

The messed up hateful stuff is from some tinfoil hat type conspiracy nut called David Icke [who was born 20 some years after "The Shadow Kingdom"]: in his 1999 work The Biggest Secret, tall, blood-drinking, shape-shifting reptilian humanoids from the Alpha Draconis star system, now hiding in underground bases, are the force behind a worldwide conspiracy against humanity. He contends that most of the world's ancient and modern leaders are related to these reptilians, including the Merovingian dynasty, the Rothschilds, the Bush family and the British Royal family.

So it's people being cuckoo for cocoa puffs. I don't see why them stealing Howards ideas has to ruin the ancestry for everyone. Fifth-dimensional beings control fourth-dimensional reptilians that control us by reptilian-human breeding programs that took place 300,000 years ago and everyone even remotely famous/powerful in the world is a hybrid. And the reason? They need our unobtanium... He calls it "mono-atomic gold" that speeds up your nervous system ten-thousandfold, process vast amounts of information, speed up trans-dimensional travel, and shapeshift... I'm amazed some people think this stuff is real.

[Ascalaphus]

Yeah centaurs is another one I'd like to see, because so far most of the "PCs as mounts" rules have been based on the idea that you're not supposed to do that. I.e. no pixies riding halflings riding humans. But with centaurs it's not unreasonable to talk about a mount/rider PC pair being a thing. Like I said before, I want Paizo to tackle the hard to balance ancestries.

Same for shobhads (four arms and large) and I guess dragonkin/ryphorian aerial mounted pairs.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I'll be honest, the moment I saw the Stheno in the latest Bestiary, my IMMEDIATE thought was "Okay, THESE gals are going to be a playable ancestry, it's not a matter of 'if' but 'when.' They're too awesomely written to NOT be!"

[Rysky]

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

I'll be honest, the moment I saw the Stheno in the latest Bestiary, my IMMEDIATE thought was "Okay, THESE gals are going to be a playable ancestry, it's not a matter of 'if' but 'when.' They're too awesomely written to NOT be!"

They’ve outright said as such.

The WHEN is a very big question though.

[QuidEst]

I'm good myself- we have fetchlings, tieflings, aasimar, kitsune, kobolds, ratfolk, and gnolls. That's just about everything I played in first edition outside core races.

We've also added to my personal list anandi, fleshwarps, poppets, and soon various undead.

PF2 has knocked it out of the park; there's enough here that I'm not going to be able to play everything I'd like to. I'd enjoy getting some more feats for non-core ancestries to flesh them out a bit, but that's hardly urgent.

[Tender Tendrils]

Things I would like to see;

Bugbears
Crab/lobster people
Centaurs
Grindylows
Kanabo (they are an ancestry in starfinder, basically half hobgoblin half oni with orange skin and occult magic)
Minotaurs
Sentient Octopii or Cuttlefish
Serpentfolk
Thriae
Some kind of living spell ancestry (like, you can be a fireball that went rogue and achieved sentience)

Most of all though, more unique weird stuff invented by paizo like the Anadi, Conrasu, Shisk, etc.

[Alchemic_Genius]

Ascalaphus wrote:

Yeah centaurs is another one I'd like to see, because so far most of the "PCs as mounts" rules have been based on the idea that you're not supposed to do that. I.e. no pixies riding halflings riding humans. But with centaurs it's not unreasonable to talk about a mount/rider PC pair being a thing. Like I said before, I want Paizo to tackle the hard to balance ancestries.

Same for shobhads (four arms and large) and I guess dragonkin/ryphorian aerial mounted pairs.

I have the guts of a -taur heritage, and I made "ignore the riding pcs" rule as an ancestry feat chain; 5th level let you ignore it, but the rider still loses an action, and you can't fly, and 9th level makes it so no one has the action penalty. There's also a 17th level feat that chains from the 5th level one that enables flight while still getting the benefit

[pixierose]

Oh yes Stheno is another I would like to. And um I would like to see Bugbear and Vishkanya but thats mainly because me and a partner of mine played a Yuanti and bugbear duo, which were a bunch of *do good recklessly* monster folk in our brief stint in 5e and we would like to return to those characters some day.

[The Raven Black]

I would really enjoy the Girtablilu (the Scorpion-taur people mentioned above).

[Ascalaphus]

I have a soft spot for vanara, as well as for wemics (D&D 2R Monster Manual art..)

[Kalaam]

Tbh stuff like lamias, centaur etc being playable would be epic.
I know some monstrous races like snake-people are meant to stay as monsters, but if we got Gnolls, why not someday

[Charlie Brooks]

After reading Bestiary 3, I'd adore a kappa ancestry.

[Ventnor]

graystone wrote:

keftiu wrote:

I’m pretty vehemently opposed to Reptoids, given their hateful real-world roots.

That's not really the roots though: shapechanging reptile people go back to Robert E. Howard's "The Shadow Kingdom", published in Weird Tales in August 1929. The "serpent men" were described as humanoids (with human bodies and snake heads) who were able to imitate humans at will, and who lived in underground passages and used their shapechanging and mind-control abilities to infiltrate humanity.

The messed up hateful stuff is from some tinfoil hat type conspiracy nut called David Icke [who was born 20 some years after "The Shadow Kingdom"]: in his 1999 work The Biggest Secret, tall, blood-drinking, shape-shifting reptilian humanoids from the Alpha Draconis star system, now hiding in underground bases, are the force behind a worldwide conspiracy against humanity. He contends that most of the world's ancient and modern leaders are related to these reptilians, including the Merovingian dynasty, the Rothschilds, the Bush family and the British Royal family.

So it's people being cuckoo for cocoa puffs. I don't see why them stealing Howards ideas has to ruin the ancestry for everyone. Fifth-dimensional beings control fourth-dimensional reptilians that control us by reptilian-human breeding programs that took place 300,000 years ago and everyone even remotely famous/powerful in the world is a hybrid. And the reason? They need our unobtanium... He calls it "mono-atomic gold" that speeds up your nervous system ten-thousandfold, process vast amounts of information, speed up trans-dimensional travel, and shapeshift... I'm amazed some people think this stuff is real.

Reptoids sound like a coat of scales slapped on "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" to me, personally.

[Perpdepog]

For everyone wanting an ooze ancestry, what about something akin to the Mezlan?

I think they're Pathfinder-specific, can be humanoid or not--so fairly easy to work into a party and not have to worry about remaking magic items--and have some neat abilities that can, or already are, replicated with ancestry feats.

[Lightning Raven]

Can we have a rabbit/hare ancestry already, please?

It can even be more on the humanoid side like Final Fantasy, but a bunny ancestry can be really interesting.

[HumbleGamer]

Ancient Red Dragon: "You miserable heroes are about to face your worst nightm...*

The rabbit leans against the dragon

Rabbit: *Crunch Crunch* *Ehh... what's up doc?*

[Lightning Raven]

HumbleGamer wrote:

Ancient Red Dragon: "You miserable heroes are about to face your worst nightm...*

The rabbit leans against the dragon

Rabbit: *Crunch Crunch* *Ehh... what's up doc?*

Exactly.

[Rysky]

Lightning Raven wrote:

Can we have a rabbit/hare ancestry already, please?

It can even be more on the humanoid side like Final Fantasy, but a bunny ancestry can be really interesting.

Ye!

I loved the 3pp Murder Bunnies for P1.

[Salamileg]

Anything bipedal and Large. Half-giants, minotaurs, ogres, whatever. Just give me the big boys.

[Angel Hunter D]

I really miss my Wayangs. They were fun.

[keftiu]

Rysky wrote:

Lightning Raven wrote:

Can we have a rabbit/hare ancestry already, please?

It can even be more on the humanoid side like Final Fantasy, but a bunny ancestry can be really interesting.

Ye!

I loved the 3pp Murder Bunnies for P1.

Luis Loza has written and released a Rabbitfolk Ancestry!

[Rysky]

keftiu wrote:

Rysky wrote:

Lightning Raven wrote:

Can we have a rabbit/hare ancestry already, please?

It can even be more on the humanoid side like Final Fantasy, but a bunny ancestry can be really interesting.

Ye!

I loved the 3pp Murder Bunnies for P1.

Luis Loza has written and released a Rabbitfolk Ancestry!

Nice!

[vagrant-poet]

Rysky wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Rysky wrote:

Lightning Raven wrote:

Can we have a rabbit/hare ancestry already, please?

It can even be more on the humanoid side like Final Fantasy, but a bunny ancestry can be really interesting.

Ye!

I loved the 3pp Murder Bunnies for P1.

Luis Loza has written and released a Rabbitfolk Ancestry!

Nice!

DriveThru link

[keftiu]

One has to wonder what a hypothetically Lost Omens: Impossible Lands book might offer on this front. The 2e Vudra writeup briefly namedropped local rhino-folk and an Ancestry known for being cursed - maybe they're among the population of Jalmeray?

I don't know the rest of the region well enough to speculate on other options. Does Nex have anything unique other than lots of local fleshwarps? Maybe some obscure Ancestry lived in what is now Geb before the necromancer came?

[Set]

keftiu wrote:

One has to wonder what a hypothetically Lost Omens: Impossible Lands book might offer on this front. The 2e Vudra writeup briefly namedropped local rhino-folk and an Ancestry known for being cursed - maybe they're among the population of Jalmeray?

I don't know the rest of the region well enough to speculate on other options. Does Nex have anything unique other than lots of local fleshwarps? Maybe some obscure Ancestry lived in what is now Geb before the necromancer came?

If Nex doesn't have some sort of humanoids-of-ooze-make generated by the sentient ooze hive-mind at the center of Oenopion as a sort of 'mobile interface' with the rest of the world, I'll be sorely disappointed!

Those possible-Jalmeray ancestries sound neat, too!

[Morton Mazon]

I'm joining the requests for Centaurs & Minotaurs. On the taller end of medium.

[S. J. Digriz]

The ogres, centaurs, and vanara. People love to act like monkeys. I am surprised vanara have not been more popular. I had a blast playing an vanara unchained monk (a monkey monk).

[pixierose]

Oh one thing I would also like to see is a Cylcops themed ancestry. Doesn't have to be large sized but would love to keep the divination aspects. I just think cyclops are cute.

[Hilary Moon Murphy]

What about trolls? I used to love the oracle trolls in Kaer Maga who charged for their divinations by the yard...

[Angel Hunter D]

Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:

What about trolls? I used to love the oracle trolls in Kaer Maga who charged for their divinations by the yard...

They were cool, however I can see a race with regeneration really riling up readers.

[HumbleGamer]

I am up for monstrous creatures rather than too strange ones.

Currently, the adventurers could open a dungeon door, finding a room with a puppy in his dog kennel playing with its toy.

But in realty:

- The dog kennel is instead a Conrasu
- The puppy is a shoony
- The toy is a poppet

We ( our group ) are finding hard to deal with this stuff ( a standard party with a weird race character would be ok, but I don't really know how people would react to a too strange mix ).

Or maybe, it's just me still not used to golarion diversity.

[Salamileg]

HumbleGamer wrote:

I am up for monstrous creatures rather than too strange ones.

Currently, the adventurers could open a dungeon door, finding a room with a puppy in his dog kennel playing with its toy.

But in realty:

- The dog kennel is instead a Conrasu
- The puppy is a shoony
- The toy is a poppet

We ( our group ) are finding hard to deal with this stuff ( a standard party with a weird race character would be ok, but I don't really know how people would react to a too strange mix ).

Or maybe, it's just me still not used to golarion diversity.

All of them have the rare trait, so you're under no obligation to allow all of them in the same party. And if you're talking from a worldbuilding perspective, then it's still very unlikely to fond all of those in the same room.

[keftiu]

A recent AP volume has detailed the primary peoples of Akiton: Formians, Shobhad, Ysoki, Ikeshti, and Humans. Humans and Ysoki we obviously already have, but detail for their local cultures and maybe a thematic feat or two would be a joy.

Formians I'm starting to think are increasingly likely as a playable Ancestry; this text now establishes them on three different planets, and the sidebar on 'hiveless' Formians seem like ready-made PCs. I have friends clamoring for insect Ancestries, and have loudly wanted to see them on Castrovel alongside their Lashunta rivals.

The changes to the Ikeshti make them a viable player Ancestry as well (and notably, confirms that they aren't Iruxi); some folks might really like having a Small scaled option that isn't a kobold, and the blood squirt is such a fun ability. In the meantime, a Heritage for Iruxi that makes them size Small and gives the blood squirting reaction from the monster statblock seems like an easy enough fix.

Shobhad, sadly, are a combination of things the devs seem allergic to, being both Large and four-armed. It's a real shame! I like them a lot, and the idea of being a hulking, wandering warrior is such a ready fantasy. At least we got their cool guns?

[Perpdepog]

I really would love to see Formians make their way into PF2E. The heritage system feels tailor-made for allowing for the different kinds of Formian hive-castes to be playable.

... I really just wanna be a Formian worker who is a monk or something, if I'm honest. I dunno what they look like, but the mental image I have paints them as being very cute.