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I just want to play a moth-person oracle with the cataclysm/apocalypse mystery. Is that so much to ask?
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I just want to play a moth-person oracle with the cataclysm/apocalypse mystery. Is that so much to ask?
Melixie can cover that space.
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Giving us cecaelias first lets us troubleshoot basically all of the problems with centaurs.
Unlike horses, octopodes are great at both climbing and squeezing.
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I just want to play a moth-person oracle with the cataclysm/apocalypse mystery. Is that so much to ask?Do NOT give that thing in bestiary 3 pg. 179 any levels in oracle.
Are you sure you have the right page number? 179 in Bestiary 3 just looks friend-shaped to me.
I was not expecting octopus people to be part of the lore. Not unwelcomed though. I shouldn't be surprised after they did the Anadi.
They were even statted up in PF1. Had the caveat of a "high power race" because they had a bunch of abilities built in that made them great at functioning in the water, but if the campaign was mostly terrestrial they fit in just fine (being more functional on land than other aquatic people- they had a good land speed unlike Tritons and Merfolk, and they didn't need to stay wet like Azarketi or Locathahs).
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I just want to play a moth-person oracle with the cataclysm/apocalypse mystery. Is that so much to ask?
Last Wayfinder had an apocalypse mystery included.
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Large ancestries, darklands ancestries, more aquatic ancestries and some ancestries from other planets in solar system ;D
Seconding aliens, always! Just having Lashunta would satisfy me, but I'd definitely welcome Formians as well.
I don't know that we'll ever get Kasatha back, sadly.
EDIT: Darklands-wise, I'm cheerleading hard for playable Serpentfolk, and Drow feel like an inevitability... who knows when, though.
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Apart from Androids and automatons, could there be other mechanical ancestries from 1e?
Also, between these two, which one does resemble better the warforged from eberron?
Automatons are the closer of the two to Warforged, but 1e’s Wyrwoods - noted as living in Arcadia, which gives me hope for them in 2e - are the nearest thing on Golarion. I want them very badly!
EDIT: I think my top five at this point is Lashunta, Wyrwoods, Minotaurs, Formians, and Serpentfolk. Runner-up spot goes to getting Samsarans back, but that feels like a sure bet already.
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Large ancestries, darklands ancestries, more aquatic ancestries and some ancestries from other planets in solar system ;DSeconding aliens, always! Just having Lashunta would satisfy me, but I'd definitely welcome Formians as well.
I don't know that we'll ever get Kasatha back, sadly.
EDIT: Darklands-wise, I'm cheerleading hard for playable Serpentfolk, and Drow feel like an inevitability... who knows when, though.
I still think there is decent chance to get kasatha as rare ancestry really. James Jacobs prefers idea that kasatha exist only in singular individuals in Numeria, but there have been mentioned of kasatha tribes formed from those individuals in 1e already and as more time goes on more and more other people are adding to the setting as well.
Like devs might be worried about the four hands thing, but come on, having single ancestry with gimmick of four arms is reasonable I say ;P
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Large ancestries, darklands ancestries, more aquatic ancestries and some ancestries from other planets in solar system ;DSeconding aliens, always! Just having Lashunta would satisfy me, but I'd definitely welcome Formians as well.
I don't know that we'll ever get Kasatha back, sadly.
EDIT: Darklands-wise, I'm cheerleading hard for playable Serpentfolk, and Drow feel like an inevitability... who knows when, though.
I still think there is decent chance to get kasatha as rare ancestry really. James Jacobs prefers idea that kasatha exist only in singular individuals in Numeria, but there have been mentioned of kasatha tribes formed from those individuals in 1e already and as more time goes on more and more other people are adding to the setting as well.
Like devs might be worried about the four hands thing, but come on, having single ancestry with gimmick of four arms is reasonable I say ;P
If it becomes the ancestry everyone chooses because they make having 4 arms too powerful, then it is a failure.
I'd rather they make it a success.
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If Kasatha had an ancestry ability like...
...I would not be displeased.
From there, appropriately balanced ancestry feats can expand on the advantages of having four arms (and other alien anatomy) along with furthering the cultural aspects of the kasatha.
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The ancestries I wish to see are the rhino headed kashrishis, the cunning but curse-twisted ratajinns, minotaurs and some sort of Giant or Half Giant. Though honestly would like to see ancestries from Casmaron, the Crown of the World, Tian Xia and Sarusan. Oh and also some turtle or tortoise ancestry.
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If Kasatha had an ancestry ability like...
...I would not be displeased.
From there, appropriately balanced ancestry feats can expand on the advantages of having four arms (and other alien anatomy) along with furthering the cultural aspects of the kasatha.
This is why I don't think multiarm ancestries are the balance nightmare some might be worried they are. The 3-action system is inherently constraining. Best default case is that extra arms are able to facilitate targeting different weaknesses but that doesn't strike me as overpowered over time.
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Automatons are the closer of the two to Warforged, but 1e’s Wyrwoods - noted as living in Arcadia, which gives me hope for them in 2e - are the nearest thing on Golarion.Apart from Androids and automatons, could there be other mechanical ancestries from 1e?
Also, between these two, which one does resemble better the warforged from eberron?
Going to second the first part of this sentence. Given the lore behind automatons and the mechanics presented, I think automatons knock the "warforged" slot out of the park. I homebrewed my own version of warforged and read what others have come up with, and automatons nail not only the themes but also have well balanced versions of some of the specific mechanics homebrewers have come up with to translate 3e, 4e, and 5e traits into PF2.
Give an automaton access to the Kitsune Star Orb feats (to mimic docents), MAYBE some of the android heritages, and call it done.
I'm of course also excited to see what wyrwoods would add, but I feel well served already.
This is why I don't think multiarm ancestries are the balance nightmare some might be worried they are. The 3-action system is inherently constraining. Best default case is that extra arms are able to facilitate targeting different weaknesses but that doesn't strike me as overpowered over time.If Kasatha had an ancestry ability like...
...I would not be displeased.
From there, appropriately balanced ancestry feats can expand on the advantages of having four arms (and other alien anatomy) along with furthering the cultural aspects of the kasatha.
The balance point is being able to have 3 hands full and still have a free hand to do interact and manipulate actions, or something like the Thaumaturge's 1 hand buff. Which is probably fairly niche in practice, but it is a definite power up for some builds.
Is it, however, more of a powerup than, say, darkvision or change shape?
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The balance point is being able to have 3 hands full and still have a free hand to do interact and manipulate actions, or something like the Thaumaturge's 1 hand buff. Which is probably fairly niche in practice, but it is a definite power up for some builds.
Is it, however, more of a powerup than, say, darkvision or change shape?
I don't think it would actually end up especially unbalancing. Context: I think the default power balance point is a little low, so I'm pretty open to things like this even if they represent power creep in an absolute sense.
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This is why I don't think multiarm ancestries are the balance nightmare some might be worried they are. The 3-action system is inherently constraining. Best default case is that extra arms are able to facilitate targeting different weaknesses but that doesn't strike me as overpowered over time.If Kasatha had an ancestry ability like...
...I would not be displeased.
From there, appropriately balanced ancestry feats can expand on the advantages of having four arms (and other alien anatomy) along with furthering the cultural aspects of the kasatha.
Mostly I think you'd see people complaining about strictly better versions of already good builds or special exploits. Two-handed weapons while keeping a shield option and a free-hand option all at once. Switch hitter being able to use blazon of shared power with a real ranged weapon with option to use both doubling rings and blazon to dual-wield in melee as well. Things of that nature.
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This is why I don't think multiarm ancestries are the balance nightmare some might be worried they are. The 3-action system is inherently constraining. Best default case is that extra arms are able to facilitate targeting different weaknesses but that doesn't strike me as overpowered over time.Mostly I think you'd see people complaining about strictly better versions of already good builds or special exploits. Two-handed weapons while keeping a shield option and a free-hand option all at once. Switch hitter being able to use blazon of shared power with a real ranged weapon with option to use both doubling rings and blazon to dual-wield in melee as well. Things of that nature.
One must take into account other balance points as well. Having all of that on one character is quite expensive, both monetarily and in opportunity cost. I imagine such a character would likely have less invested in their defensive or utility options as a result.
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Being able to hold four hands of stuff is potentially an issue when you are letting someone combine a shield and a 2h weapon, or letting someone dual-wield 2h weapons. You'd probably want to prevent those out somehow.
Like, if you're not going to block with your shield (just raise it) then you really don't need to spend much money on it. A Kasatha Paladin with a reach weapon and a shield would be cheap and comparatively unreasonable.
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One must take into account other balance points as well. Having all of that on one character is quite expensive, both monetarily and in opportunity cost. I imagine such a character would likely have less invested in their defensive or utility options as a result.This is why I don't think multiarm ancestries are the balance nightmare some might be worried they are. The 3-action system is inherently constraining. Best default case is that extra arms are able to facilitate targeting different weaknesses but that doesn't strike me as overpowered over time.Mostly I think you'd see people complaining about strictly better versions of already good builds or special exploits. Two-handed weapons while keeping a shield option and a free-hand option all at once. Switch hitter being able to use blazon of shared power with a real ranged weapon with option to use both doubling rings and blazon to dual-wield in melee as well. Things of that nature.
TBH being able to Melee with 2H and raise a shield / shield block is already a big gain in power (as in no option allows for that on purpose). Adding another hand makes it even worse.
And all this as a basic ancestry feature available to all from 1st level ?
TBH, except for non-casting unarmed combattants, I do not see anyone choosing another ancestry.
Think of all the Interact actions it voids. It gives more action economy that any existing feat, in addition to the many hands goodness mentioned above.
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Being able to hold four hands of stuff is potentially an issue when you are letting someone combine a shield and a 2h weapon, or letting someone dual-wield 2h weapons. You'd probably want to prevent those out somehow.
How about a Magus fighting with a 2h-weapon, raising and blocking with a shield and casting from a scroll/staff in their 4th hand ?
Right, nothing OP here.
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I'll be honest, I kind of prefer it if we don't just get all the Starfinder ancestries in Pathfinder (and vice versa).
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TBH being able to Melee with 2H and raise a shield / shield block is already a big gain in power (as in no option allows for that on purpose).One must take into account other balance points as well. Having all of that on one character is quite expensive, both monetarily and in opportunity cost. I imagine such a character would likely have less invested in their defensive or utility options as a result.This is why I don't think multiarm ancestries are the balance nightmare some might be worried they are. The 3-action system is inherently constraining. Best default case is that extra arms are able to facilitate targeting different weaknesses but that doesn't strike me as overpowered over time.Mostly I think you'd see people complaining about strictly better versions of already good builds or special exploits. Two-handed weapons while keeping a shield option and a free-hand option all at once. Switch hitter being able to use blazon of shared power with a real ranged weapon with option to use both doubling rings and blazon to dual-wield in melee as well. Things of that nature.
Actually, the shield cantrip would allow you to do that, with of course some pretty firm limitations, starting with only getting +1 shield bonus. That it is a verbal only spell allows it to be cast without fear of AoO.
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One must take into account other balance points as well. Having all of that on one character is quite expensive, both monetarily and in opportunitycost. I imagine such a character would likely have less invested in their defense or utility options as a result.
Quite the contrary. The important part of dual-wielding or switch hitting is the fundamental runes for accuracy. Doing both at once with four arms is a mere 102gp on top of the cost for setting up 1 weapon. 102gp is expensive at level 3 perhaps but there's also no utility item really worth buying at that level. Just going by the "starting at a higher level" chart, you could be ready to go by 5th level with an extra couple of low level magic items and I'm absolutely certain that in a regular campaign you could push it down to 4th. After that you have all the way up to 11th to keep armor and utility up before deciding if the 2650gp for property runes is worth it.
For 2h+shield+free, weapon and armor are accounted for as normal. Here, you do actually need to pick heavy sturdy shield investment over something else. But sword and board were already doing that baseline with 2 arms and a 1h weapon. Or it's a 1 time purchase of a spellguard shield which is super cheap by comparison.
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From a design principle, you can't really make "well, it's expensive" as the fulcrum you balance things around since games are going to vary wildly in terms of how much money there is floating around. And even if it were more standardized, the character who spent their money on runing up both their greataxes that they double slice with, might have less money to spend important defensive and utility items and suffer as a result.
Like the reason doubling rings exist is "so dual-wielders aren't significantly behind the curve for money."
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Actually, the shield cantrip would allow you to do that, with of course some pretty firm limitations, starting with only getting +1 shield bonus. That it is a verbal only spell allows it to be cast without fear of AoO.TBH being able to Melee with 2H and raise a shield / shield block is already a big gain in power (as in no option allows for that on purpose).One must take into account other balance points as well. Having all of that on one character is quite expensive, both monetarily and in opportunity cost. I imagine such a character would likely have less invested in their defensive or utility options as a result.This is why I don't think multiarm ancestries are the balance nightmare some might be worried they are. The 3-action system is inherently constraining. Best default case is that extra arms are able to facilitate targeting different weaknesses but that doesn't strike me as overpowered over time.Mostly I think you'd see people complaining about strictly better versions of already good builds or special exploits. Two-handed weapons while keeping a shield option and a free-hand option all at once. Switch hitter being able to use blazon of shared power with a real ranged weapon with option to use both doubling rings and blazon to dual-wield in melee as well. Things of that nature.
+1 to AC and Shield block once every 10 minutes, by casting a spell with concentrate, vs no-spell +2 to AC and Shield block every round.
I know I would not hesitate.
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Right, being able to devote a full hand to the usage should be more powerful. My point was that you could get at least the basic use out of a shield while wielding a 2 handed weapon using any ancestry. So the comparison should be measured between the spell+2hander and full sheild+2 hander, not 2 handed without a shield at all as was suggested.
For instance, does that compare favorably with, say, half level of resistance to fire damage?
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Do you mean half level of resistance to fire damage vs an additional +1 to AC and Shield block every round rather than every 10 minutes ?
Shield block every round it is. No hesitation.
Not even taking into account all the other perks of using an actual shield vs casting the spell.
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I'll be honest, I kind of prefer it if we don't just get all the Starfinder ancestries in Pathfinder (and vice versa).
I don’t want “all of them,” but Lashunta and Kasatha were playable in 1e, and I’d like to see them back. Formians also exist on Golarion in addition to being on Akiton and Castrovel, and serve the niche of bug buddies.
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As some one who dabbles in applying the PF2E ruleset to old D&D campaigns, I’d like to see Centaur, Minotaur, and Half-Giant. (Capitalization for emphasis only.)
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Thinking about it, an extra hand ( or arm ) would probably do better than "nimble shield hand", which requires a lvl 2 archetype and a lvl 6 archetype feat.That's the main issue for me, because it's also not just those feats. Having extra arms is also akin to having Quick Draw, because of the extra items held, or the magus' feats that let them combine weapons and staves, plus however many endroutes it allows around reloading and ammunition count-based tactics. I'm sure there are other feats I'm not considering that get invalidated, or at least devalued, by getting to hold and use so many extra items.
The thought of a Kasatha with two Heavy Repeating Crossbows being able to fire ten times before reloading is a lot of fun.
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I'll be honest, I kind of prefer it if we don't just get all the Starfinder ancestries in Pathfinder (and vice versa).I don’t want “all of them,” but Lashunta and Kasatha were playable in 1e, and I’d like to see them back. Formians also exist on Golarion in addition to being on Akiton and Castrovel, and serve the niche of bug buddies.
I feel like my bright line is whether or not this people has at least one community on Golarion. Like the Ysoki are definitely active on Golarion, even if they're from Akiton.
So if we want Lashunta and Kasatha in Pathfinder, I want to learn where they are Golarion, how they got there, and what they're doing now. Though if we do another planet hopping AP, you can put an ancestry in the backmatter and that will work, but it's probably not going to have more support than the Shoony got.
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I'll be honest, I kind of prefer it if we don't just get all the Starfinder ancestries in Pathfinder (and vice versa).I don’t want “all of them,” but Lashunta and Kasatha were playable in 1e, and I’d like to see them back. Formians also exist on Golarion in addition to being on Akiton and Castrovel, and serve the niche of bug buddies.I feel like my bright line is whether or not this people has at least one community on Golarion. Like the Ysoki are definitely active on Golarion, even if they're from Akiton.
So if we want Lashunta and Kasatha in Pathfinder, I want to learn where they are Golarion, how they got there, and what they're doing now. Though if we do another planet hopping AP, you can put an ancestry in the backmatter and that will work, but it's probably not going to have more support than the Shoony got.
Numeria has a lashunta woman in charge of one of its major cities, who secretly funds and organizes a group aimed at saving aliens in that land - between that and the population of lashunta in Iron Gods, I’d hope that’s enough to count. Seeing a hidden lashunta village somewhere in Numeria would be a joy.
I think they’ve said not to expect backmatter Ancestries again, and that Shoony were a special case. I’d love to be wrong; it’s a good excuse to buy a book I wouldn’t normally.
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Being able to hold four hands of stuff is potentially an issue when you are letting someone combine a shield and a 2h weapon, or letting someone dual-wield 2h weapons. You'd probably want to prevent those out somehow.
Like, if you're not going to block with your shield (just raise it) then you really don't need to spend much money on it. A Kasatha Paladin with a reach weapon and a shield would be cheap and comparatively unreasonable.
Agreed it would also probably have to come with a rule that says if you use more than one hand in a turn you can't raise a shield (by any means) during that turn, and the reverse if you raise a shield then you can only use one hand to strike with.