What Ancestries are you still craving?

[Karmagator]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I hope that if we get dinosaur people they are feathery.

Yeah, I love that aesthetic.

[Gisher]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I hope that if we get dinosaur people they are feathery.

So, Tengu?

(After all, Earth birds are a branch of dinosaurs.)

[Phillip Gastone]

Gelatinous Cube

[Ashanderai]

Thanks to what Battlezoo has lined up, what we have heard we are getting in upcoming releases by Paizo (Kashrishi, Vanara, etc.), and the existing Ancestries in the game right now, I think most of what I would like to see in PF2 is already there, but I would still very much like to see Paizo make ancestries for Drow, Shabti, Wayang, Samsaran, Lashunta, Ryphorian, Dragonkin, and Ratajin (though I think Ratajin will be a heritage), Living Symbol/Spell, and Animated Object (Intelligent Weapon by Battlezoo is is a cool, concept but sounds like it is not broad enough, I think, as "objects" could also include armor, shields, pens, brooms, books, compasses, etc.). I also think I would like to see a Valkyrie and/or Einherji lineages for the Ganzi heritage and maybe get some feats for the Ganzi that are not tied to having a tail. In fact, I would love to see more feats for all the non-core ancestries and heritages; I think we need them badly. There is not much to choose from right now, especially if you want to use the ancestral paragon rules from the GM Guide.

Of the stuff I think we could still see for ancestries in Golarion, I think there is potential to see Centaur, Cyclops, Formian, Merfolk, Satyr, Anacite/Robot, Contemplatives, Witchwyrd, Adlet, Cecaelia, Kovintus, Munavri, Triton, Sasquatch, Garuda, Gathlain, Huldra, and Shae. I would love to see other Starfinder adaptations to PF2, but I think they are far more unlikely to happen.

Also, I would love to throw heaps of praise out there for Battlezoo's Dragon Ancestry. It blows everything out of the water for me on so many levels (I have always wanted to play a PC dragon and this book does it so well). I also absolutely LOVE the concepts they are putting out there for the Ancestries they have in the pipeline. With the awesome Dungeon ancestry confirmed to be getting more options, it is an ancestry I never knew I wanted and then the others that I have always wanted to see as monstrous ancestries that I never expected to happen like Nymph, Oni, Demon, Slime, and Intelligent Weapon, I doubt I will ever get tired of character concepts when it comes to ancestries.

[keftiu]

I'm gutted that Ashanderai's post has no room for Wyrwoods among the mix!

[Ashanderai]

keftiu wrote:

I'm gutted that Ashanderai's post has no room for Wyrwoods among the mix!

Ugh...Urk! I totally wrote them in there, but must have accidentally edited them out when I added some of the others. Wyrwoods are a favorite that I cannot wait to play! I love all the construct children of Brigh!

You know what... I bet the Wyrwoods edited that post to protect their secrets. That would be just like them to do that. :P

[Wyrwood]

Ashanderai wrote:

keftiu wrote:

I'm gutted that Ashanderai's post has no room for Wyrwoods among the mix!

Ugh...Urk! I totally wrote them in there, but must have accidentally edited them out when I added some of the others. Wyrwoods are a favorite that I cannot wait to play! I love all the construct children of Brigh!

You know what... I bet the Wyrwoods edited that post to protect their secrets. That would be just like them to do that. :P

Shhhh!

[Ly'ualdre]

I think the real question at this point is, for those potential new and returning options, what book would they show up in? Similarly, what current options would see expansions in what books?

Quite a few I feel are rather easy to pinpoint their possible inclusion or growth. But their are a number that are a bit harder. I have a list going with some ideas, but wondering what everyone else might think.

The most interesting additions will certainly come from the new people in some of the less explored regions. There is little convincing me that places like Arcadia, the wider Casmaron, southern Garund, ruins of Azlant, and Crown of the World don't have some unique people and cultures mostly confined to those places.

[keftiu]

Ly'ualdre wrote:

I think the real question at this point is, for those potential new and returning options, what book would they show up in? Similarly, what current options would see expansions in what books?

Quite a few I feel are rather easy to pinpoint their possible inclusion or growth. But their are a number that are a bit harder. I have a list going with some ideas, but wondering what everyone else might think.

There’s a few obvious slots: Samsarans and Wayangs coming back in a Tian Xia book, Klinkois and Wyrwoods in an Arcadia one, Ratajin in Vudra. I have to imagine Minotaurs and Stheno might be saved for if we ever return to Iblydos. I’ve made the case for Adlets in either a Crown of the World or a Saga Lands book, and think a playable Winter Wolf would fit perfectly into the latter as well.

One of my favorites that I’m worried about is the Lashunta, as I don’t imagine a Distant Worlds 2e is a terribly plausible product. They miiight sneak into a Lost Omens: The Broken Lands via Numeria, which would suit me just fine.

[Ashanderai]

keftiu wrote:

Ly'ualdre wrote:

I think the real question at this point is, for those potential new and returning options, what book would they show up in? Similarly, what current options would see expansions in what books?

Quite a few I feel are rather easy to pinpoint their possible inclusion or growth. But their are a number that are a bit harder. I have a list going with some ideas, but wondering what everyone else might think.

There’s a few obvious slots: Samsarans and Wayangs coming back in a Tian Xia book, Klinkois and Wyrwoods in an Arcadia one, Ratajin in Vudra. I have to imagine Minotaurs and Stheno might be saved for if we ever return to Iblydos. I’ve made the case for Adlets in either a Crown of the World or a Saga Lands book, and think a playable Winter Wolf would fit perfectly into the latter as well.

One of my favorites that I’m worried about is the Lashunta, as I don’t imagine a Distant Worlds 2e is a terribly plausible product. They miiight sneak into a Lost Omens: The Broken Lands via Numeria, which would suit me just fine.

I think that the Lashunta could show up in AP#187: The Seventh Arch (Gatewalkers 1 of 3). The description of that AP states, "This adventure also includes a gazetteer of adventure sites on the alien world of Castrovel, the Green Planet; new rules options perfect for paranormalist adventurers; and strange new creatures to befriend or bedevil your players." It might just be wishful thinking on my part, but I really think that this AP issue would be perfect for introducing a Lashunta ancestry.

[keftiu]

Ashanderai wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Ly'ualdre wrote:

I think the real question at this point is, for those potential new and returning options, what book would they show up in? Similarly, what current options would see expansions in what books?

Quite a few I feel are rather easy to pinpoint their possible inclusion or growth. But their are a number that are a bit harder. I have a list going with some ideas, but wondering what everyone else might think.

There’s a few obvious slots: Samsarans and Wayangs coming back in a Tian Xia book, Klinkois and Wyrwoods in an Arcadia one, Ratajin in Vudra. I have to imagine Minotaurs and Stheno might be saved for if we ever return to Iblydos. I’ve made the case for Adlets in either a Crown of the World or a Saga Lands book, and think a playable Winter Wolf would fit perfectly into the latter as well.

One of my favorites that I’m worried about is the Lashunta, as I don’t imagine a Distant Worlds 2e is a terribly plausible product. They miiight sneak into a Lost Omens: The Broken Lands via Numeria, which would suit me just fine.

I think that the Lashunta could show up in AP#187: The Seventh Arch (Gatewalkers 1 of 3). The description of that AP states, "This adventure also includes a gazetteer of adventure sites on the alien world of Castrovel, the Green Planet; new rules options perfect for paranormalist adventurers; and strange new creatures to befriend or bedevil your players." It might just be wishful thinking on my part, but I really think that this AP issue would be perfect for introducing a Lashunta ancestry.

I believe it’s been said a few times that Shoony were an aberration (not the game term, the regular word) and to not expect any other Ancestries in AP backmatter. Touching on Castrovel gives me hope, but Gatewalkers isn’t going to make them playable, sadly.

[AnimatedPaper]

keftiu wrote:

Ashanderai wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Ly'ualdre wrote:

I think the real question at this point is, for those potential new and returning options, what book would they show up in? Similarly, what current options would see expansions in what books?

Quite a few I feel are rather easy to pinpoint their possible inclusion or growth. But their are a number that are a bit harder. I have a list going with some ideas, but wondering what everyone else might think.

There’s a few obvious slots: Samsarans and Wayangs coming back in a Tian Xia book, Klinkois and Wyrwoods in an Arcadia one, Ratajin in Vudra. I have to imagine Minotaurs and Stheno might be saved for if we ever return to Iblydos. I’ve made the case for Adlets in either a Crown of the World or a Saga Lands book, and think a playable Winter Wolf would fit perfectly into the latter as well.

One of my favorites that I’m worried about is the Lashunta, as I don’t imagine a Distant Worlds 2e is a terribly plausible product. They miiight sneak into a Lost Omens: The Broken Lands via Numeria, which would suit me just fine.

I think that the Lashunta could show up in AP#187: The Seventh Arch (Gatewalkers 1 of 3). The description of that AP states, "This adventure also includes a gazetteer of adventure sites on the alien world of Castrovel, the Green Planet; new rules options perfect for paranormalist adventurers; and strange new creatures to befriend or bedevil your players." It might just be wishful thinking on my part, but I really think that this AP issue would be perfect for introducing a Lashunta ancestry.

I believe it’s been said a few times that Shoony were an aberration (not the game term, the regular word) and to not expect any other Ancestries in AP backmatter. Touching on Castrovel gives me hope, but Gatewalkers isn’t going to make them playable, sadly.

While I agree with your assessment, if they were going to break that “rule”, the 1st chapter of a AP is where you’d do it. A major part of the criticism wasn’t so much that thy were in an AP entry, but that they were in a 2nd part, denying players the ability to start at level 1 and run the whole campaign with a shoony. That an ancestry could easily be pulled out and reprinted as part of the players guide (Starfinder has done that several times now) might also help, and it would be easier to do that as a 1st AP entry article than with a later volume.

[Ly'ualdre]

I don't see why we wouldn't get a planet/space/Dark Tapestry based book. We did just see Akiton recently.

Considering that, and the fact that Castrovel will be touched on in Gatewalkers; I feel that such a book is likely sooner rather than later in the systems lifespan.

Lost Omens: Dark Tapestry of Space has a nice ring to it.

When that does happen; between Lashunta, Kasatha, Formian, Yaddithian, Witchwyrd, Ryphorian/Triaxian, Astomoi, Trox, Barathu/Brethedan, Haan, Anacite/Abollonian, Akitonian Ratfolk, Sovryn Elves (personal name for Sovryian/Castrovel Elves), Shobhad, Ikeshti, Contemplatives of Ashok, Akitonian "Humans", Elder Things (Eldar, as I like to call them), Verthani/Vercites, Dragonkin, Khulan, Elebrian/Eoxian, Necrovites, and many MANY more; we aren't particularly lacking in the trappings of Spelljammer: Pathfinder Edition style games. :D
---
On the matter on Ancestry rules in AP's: they have straight up said they will not be doing it again. So, I wouldn't expect it.

Only exception to this idea that I think many might love would be to have them in Player's Guides. But I find that unlikely, because then they would basically be giving crunchy mechanics for free.

[AnimatedPaper]

Ly'ualdre wrote:

Only exception to this idea that I think many might love would be to have them in Player's Guides. But I find that unlikely, because then they would basically be giving crunchy mechanics for free.

…they literally do that all the time. To the point that they partnered with another website to more efficiently distribute that crunchy material for free farther and wider.

I don’t expect it to happen either, but not because of this particular objection.

[Kekkres]

between battlezoo and upcoming announcements, i am pretty content, we still have no word on ANY darklands ancestory (which continues to make me suspect a dedicated darklands book at some point) and i would super love to see centaurs as playable but beyond that... i think im good (serpentfolk would also be sick but that seems well and truely a pipe dream at this point)

[Ly'ualdre]

AnimatedPaper wrote:

Ly'ualdre wrote:

Only exception to this idea that I think many might love would be to have them in Player's Guides. But I find that unlikely, because then they would basically be giving crunchy mechanics for free.

…they literally do that all the time. To the point that they partnered with another website to more efficiently distribute that crunchy material for free farther and wider.

I don’t expect it to happen either, but not because of this particular objection.

Yea. I suppose that's true. Lol.

The Shoony have kind of suffered as a result of their introduction in Extinction Curse. I believe this was mostly die to lack of communication between those handling that AP and the Rulebook and Lost Omens teams, essentially. As a result, there were no plans for additional content for then down the line. Hopefully that changes soon. But, I'd rather avoid that potentiality altogether.

That's just me though.

[Ashanderai]

keftiu wrote:

I believe it’s been said a few times that Shoony were an aberration (not the game term, the regular word) and to not expect any other Ancestries in AP backmatter. Touching on Castrovel gives me hope, but Gatewalkers isn’t going to make them playable, sadly.

True; however, I would not be surprised if they changed their minds for a unique situation. For example, if they know they will not be doing any other Starfinder-related material in some time, but they have a chance to do it now with Gatecrashers, why not make an exception to the rule for it? Also, I know it is not an ancestry, but they did release the next closest thing to that with the Pine Leshy heritage that was recently released in an AP #176 Quest for the Frozen Flame, Lost Mammoth Valley. To be clear, I am not stating that it is a certainty, just a possibility.

[keftiu]

Ashanderai wrote:

keftiu wrote:

I believe it’s been said a few times that Shoony were an aberration (not the game term, the regular word) and to not expect any other Ancestries in AP backmatter. Touching on Castrovel gives me hope, but Gatewalkers isn’t going to make them playable, sadly.

True; however, I would not be surprised if they changed their minds for a unique situation. For example, if they know they will not be doing any other Starfinder-related material in some time, but they have a chance to do it now with Gatecrashers, why not make an exception to the rule for it? Also, I know it is not an ancestry, but they did release the next closest thing to that with the Pine Leshy heritage that was recently released in an AP #176 Quest for the Frozen Flame, Lost Mammoth Valley. To be clear, I am not stating that it is a certainty, just a possibility.

We didn’t get any new Ancestries out of our trip to Akiton last year. Why would Castrovel be different?

[Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti]

aquatic elves

[Ashanderai]

keftiu wrote:

Ashanderai wrote:

keftiu wrote:

I believe it’s been said a few times that Shoony were an aberration (not the game term, the regular word) and to not expect any other Ancestries in AP backmatter. Touching on Castrovel gives me hope, but Gatewalkers isn’t going to make them playable, sadly.

True; however, I would not be surprised if they changed their minds for a unique situation. For example, if they know they will not be doing any other Starfinder-related material in some time, but they have a chance to do it now with Gatecrashers, why not make an exception to the rule for it? Also, I know it is not an ancestry, but they did release the next closest thing to that with the Pine Leshy heritage that was recently released in an AP #176 Quest for the Frozen Flame, Lost Mammoth Valley. To be clear, I am not stating that it is a certainty, just a possibility.

We didn’t get any new Ancestries out of our trip to Akiton last year. Why would Castrovel be different?

Different AP, different themes, different planet, different ancestries, different writers, different products... it doesn't matter. I can just as easily turn the question around; why not? It is just hope and speculation. Why try and take that away by harping why it can't happen? This is a speculation thread, after all. It doesn't matter if future product releases justify that anyone is right or wrong. It is just fun to speculate and hope for something. Plus, if the dev's are watching, they can gauge interest in what we, collectively, want.

I'll write it again; I'm only stating that it is a possibility - nothing more.

[Ly'ualdre]

Decided to compile a list of the various potential Ancestries, Cultures, Creatures, Ethnicities, Heritages, and/or Lineages based on the books, locations, or themes I feel they are most likely to make a playable appearance in or receive expanded lore/options for. Most of this is conjecture and theory, based on some patterns I've noticed, community interest, lore implications, and whether they were playable and/or existent in both PF1 and Starfinder. So I won't be adding every Starfinder option unless they were also in Pathfinder in some way.
(Only did Impossible Lands atm, as this ended up longer than expected. But I've a series of other examples.)

Impossible Lands:

The Impossible Lands meta-region should not be mistaken for the Impossible Kingdoms of Vudra; but does include the Vudran colonial state of Jalmeray, as well as the nations of Geb, Nex, and the Mana Wastes.

Aasimar - Particularly those of Plumekith and Emberkin Lineage. The Garuda are populous in Vudra and likely have some presence in Jalmeray as well. Peri, for their part, have roots in Persian/Iranian and Islamic/Muslim myth, which Vudra takes some inspiration from. So it seems likely (imo anyways) that Peri can be found in Vudra and Jalmeray. Nirvana has a strong place in Vudran philosophy and faith, so Angel and Agathion blooded Aasimar could get some love.

Dwarves - Particularly the Dongun and Kulenett of Dongun Hold and Geb's underground respectively. Could see some mentions of the Taralu ruins found within the Shattered Range as well.

Fleshwarp - Between the Oenopian Fleshforges of Nex and the mutative environs of the Mana Wastes, Fleshwarps seem likely to be more prevalent here than most places.

Geniekin - Genie and Geniekin have a large presence in Casmaron, Vudra, and Jalmeray. So it wouldn't be surprising to see them touched on here. And I believe their expansion has been all but confirmed.

Ghoran - Confirmed as an option, Ghorans are almost exclusively found in Nex, with a small population on Jalmeray.

Half-Elves - Half-Elves possessing psychic abilities can be found in Vudra and maybe even Jalmeray. Seems less likely than others to get information here.

Humans - The Vudrani and Kelishite are likely to get a focus here. Hoping to see something on the Vudrani-Dhavala, Parbatkay, and Banjarey ethnic groups. Would be nice to see some info on the various Keleshite ethnic groups as well, or other Casmaron inhabitants, but I'll take what I can get.

Kashrishi - The rhino-headed, psychic Kashrishi have been confirmed. Find mostly in Vudra, they are likely to have a presence in Jalmeray.

Mutants - Another potential "Creature Archetype", the Mana Wastes are known to alter creatures exposed to its effects for too long.

Nagaji - Most surprising of those Ancestries that have been confirmed, but sensible given the presence of Naga and their ties to Vudran lore. Most interesting Ancestry for me, as I want to see what makes them different from Tian Nagaji.

Oozemorph - OK, hear me out, but I feel like Oozemorphs are similar conceptually to the Undead Archetypes. I like to call such Archetypes "Creature Archetypes", as they basically alter what kind of creature you are. That said, Nex's relation and experiments with Oozes makes this very likely to see an expansion.

Vanara - Another confirmed Ancestry, I love the Vanara. Most of their population has been focused in Vudra. So, not surprising given the other Vudran Ancestries.

Vishkanya - Confirmed as well. Vishkanya are very mysterious compared to most other Ancestries. Kind of looking forward to them simply from a lore perspective. Sizable presence in Vudra. Allegedly.

Ratajin - So this one is odd in the sense that they were mentioned as residents of Vudra, but weren't mentioned during the panel at PaizoCon. This leads me to believe they are either not present or they are being implemented in a unique way. The "curse-twisted" bit makes me wonder if they may be a "Creature Archetype" perhaps. Unsure though. They may hold off on them until an actual Vudra book drops.

Ratfolk - Ratfolk are populous within Vudra and likely have a small presence in Jalmery. May get some insight on their practice of Ranatagi as a result.

Shisk - An enclave of Shisk are said to reside within the Shattered Range near Nex.

Skeletons (+ Undead) - Skeletons and other Undead of all shapes and sizes make up the population of Geb. As such, could see some info of unlife with its borders. But, not sure how many mechanical options we will see.

Tiefling - Tiefling born of Asura and Rakshasa are common on Jalmeray; and it seems likely Spitespawn also likely have place. Real world Ahriman and Div have roots in Persian/Iranian and Islamic/Muslim myth. So they could see some mentions.

[Karmagator]

Battlezoo are really doing the work. In addition to all the rest we'll get Doppelgänger, Stheno (yay for derpy head-snakes) and they just announced mimics. The Morningwood extented family will be huge XD

2023 will be fire for 2e!

[Ly'ualdre]

Karmagator wrote:

Battlezoo are really doing the work. In addition to all the rest we'll get Doppelgänger, Stheno (yay for derpy head-snakes) and they just announced mimics. The Morningwood extented family will be huge XD

2023 will be fire for 2e!

Where!? I've literally been checking the PF2 and Mark's Reddit for days. D:

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Oh man, that'd be fun! I'd love to play a mimic who defaults to the standard treasure chest disguise even though they know it doesn't fool people anymore because "it's an ICONIC look!"

[Mark Seifter]

Ly'ualdre wrote:

Karmagator wrote:

Battlezoo are really doing the work. In addition to all the rest we'll get Doppelgänger, Stheno (yay for derpy head-snakes) and they just announced mimics. The Morningwood extented family will be huge XD

2023 will be fire for 2e!

Where!? I've literally been checking the PF2 and Mark's Reddit for days. D:

The newsletter gets a sneak peek of everything before I put it up on reddit and such!

[Ly'ualdre]

Mark Seifter wrote:

Ly'ualdre wrote:

Karmagator wrote:

Battlezoo are really doing the work. In addition to all the rest we'll get Doppelgänger, Stheno (yay for derpy head-snakes) and they just announced mimics. The Morningwood extented family will be huge XD

2023 will be fire for 2e!

Where!? I've literally been checking the PF2 and Mark's Reddit for days. D:

The newsletter gets a sneak peek of everything before I put it up on reddit and such!

Honestly, I get the newsletters, but my email is always the last thing I check. ^^'

That's so exciting!! I cannot wait to see the last one!!!

[Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti]

How are the dragon races in the Battlezoo, are they set up like the AD and D 2E Isle of Wyrms dragons?

[Kekkres]

Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:

How are the dragon races in the Battlezoo, are they set up like the AD and D 2E Isle of Wyrms dragons?

battlezoo dragons as an ancestry on their own are built much like any other ancestry, if admittedly one with 20+ heritages and a ton of options level wise, but on a feat by feat basis nothing they have is especially noteworthy. Things get interesting however with the dragon ravager and dragon mage archetypes available at two, which allow you just go all in on being a dragon, so you can choose to play as either a dragon cleric, where dragon has the same level of inpact as dwarf would, or you can be a dragon fighter who picks up ravager and reduces their class down to a chassis that their dragon is built from

[Mark Seifter]

Kekkres wrote:

if admittedly one with 20+ heritages

45 even, I may have gone overboard! (in my defense on overboardness, I intended to release it with only 10, but it got expanded a lot of time)

Not that 20+ is incorrect at all, but when you hear 20+ you might not be expecting 45! :D

[WatersLethe]

Strongly, *strongly* recommend using the Dragon ancestry. The Draconic Diehard class archetype is just...*chef's kiss*

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Kekkres wrote:

Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:

How are the dragon races in the Battlezoo, are they set up like the AD and D 2E Isle of Wyrms dragons?

battlezoo dragons as an ancestry on their own are built much like any other ancestry, if admittedly one with 20+ heritages and a ton of options level wise, but on a feat by feat basis nothing they have is especially noteworthy. Things get interesting however with the dragon ravager and dragon mage archetypes available at two, which allow you just go all in on being a dragon, so you can choose to play as either a dragon cleric, where dragon has the same level of inpact as dwarf would, or you can be a dragon fighter who picks up ravager and reduces their class down to a chassis that their dragon is built from

Wait, so you don't have to take the Dragon class when playing the Dragon ancestry? It looks like a lot of the Draconic Gifts require features from the Dragon class to qualify. Like, I'm having trouble interpreting it, it feels like it's a completely separate set of rules that don't necessarily interface with the rules regular ancestries and classes operate by...like they play fine ALONGSIDE regular PCs, but if you take the ANCESTRY but not the CLASS you're abandoning the majority of your dragon PC's development? And I don't SEE a Draconic Diehard archetype in there...I'm confused.

[Mark Seifter]

You might be looking at the 5e version based on the terminology you are mentioning?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

It's the only one I could find on DriveThruRPG?

[Mark Seifter]

Ah, gotcha! I didn't even realize anything other than the free Dungeons ancestry was on DTRPG (which takes a 35% cut off the top). All the books, including PF2 versions are on battlezoo.com!

[keftiu]

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

It's the only one I could find on DriveThruRPG?

The DTRPG page says it's the 5e version in the sidebar.

[WatersLethe]

To summarize:

Dragon heritages give you the bare minimum of thematic things for your chosen dragon type (color, associated energy type, natural weapon options, and a small bonus of some kind)

Dragon ancestry feats give you options in-line with other ancestries (kobold is a great comparison)

Draconic Ravager is the "martial dragon abilities" archetype any dragon can buy into to get things like better scales and better natural attacks.

Draconic Mage is the "caster dragon abilities" archetype any dragon can buy into to get some dragon spells and neat utility stuff with your breath

Draconic Diehard is the *class* archetype that any class can take that locks you out of using armor and held items/weapons, but starts you in on Draconic Ravager at level 1 and gets your natural attacks and scales rolling. With this, and spending your feats wisely, in not long at all you will start to feel like a real dragon.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Mark Seifter wrote:

Ah, gotcha! I didn't even realize anything other than the free Dungeons ancestry was on DTRPG (which takes a 35% cut off the top). All the books, including PF2 versions are on battlezoo.com!

Thanks for the info! On my way to buy it now!

[AnimatedPaper]

Mark Seifter wrote:

Ah, gotcha! I didn't even realize anything other than the free Dungeons ancestry was on DTRPG (which takes a 35% cut off the top). All the books, including PF2 versions are on battlezoo.com!

I finally made time to read this one, and I have to commend you all on a job well done. On top of the dungeons I want to run (for example, I could imagine the avatar of Droskar's Crucible might have OPINIONS on its new Kobold management), I imagine using this to represent a Soul of a City

[Karmagator]

Mark Seifter wrote:

Ly'ualdre wrote:

Karmagator wrote:

Battlezoo are really doing the work. In addition to all the rest we'll get Doppelgänger, Stheno (yay for derpy head-snakes) and they just announced mimics. The Morningwood extented family will be huge XD

2023 will be fire for 2e!

Where!? I've literally been checking the PF2 and Mark's Reddit for days. D:

The newsletter gets a sneak peek of everything before I put it up on reddit and such!

Oops. It seems I jumped the gun a bit, then. I thought I remembered them being much closer toghetther, sorry ^^. But hey, wait till you see the artwork ;)

[Ly'ualdre]

Karmagator wrote:

Mark Seifter wrote:

Ly'ualdre wrote:

Karmagator wrote:

Battlezoo are really doing the work. In addition to all the rest we'll get Doppelgänger, Stheno (yay for derpy head-snakes) and they just announced mimics. The Morningwood extented family will be huge XD

2023 will be fire for 2e!

Where!? I've literally been checking the PF2 and Mark's Reddit for days. D:

The newsletter gets a sneak peek of everything before I put it up on reddit and such!

Oops. It seems I jumped the gun a bit, then. I thought I remembered them being much closer toghetther, sorry ^^. But hey, wait till you see the artwork ;)

Saw it. They are adorable.

EDIT: Also, next list of potential options based on a books theme or region:

Tian-Xia:

Next we shall move on to the easternmost continent of Tian-Xia. The Dragon Empires have a slew of unique people and creatures that call it home and is my personal favorite location in Golarion. Hoping to see if get the same meta-region treatment as the Inner Sea did, which I think could create for some dynamic storytelling.

Aasimar - The nation of Tianjing is ruled by a myriad of Aasimar decended from the Celestials that helped defend its borders. I don't believe we have any indication as what Celestials took part in this defense, but given the nations Neutral Good alignment, the likes of Agathions, Angels, and maybe Peri are likely. Although, I'd be surprised if they weren't all included. Personally, I'm hoping for the introduction of a new Celestial group inspired by East Asian myth; such as the of Chinese/Japanese Buddhism with their magical hagoromo, or the Apsara os Hindu and Buddhist myth. But, that is wishful thinking perhaps.

Elves (& Half-Elves) - The Jininese Elves of the shogunate nation of Jinin are long overdue for lore buff. You mean to tell me the idea of ELVEN SAMURAI is somehow not one of the coolest things in Tian-Xia? Need. Jininese Half-Elves is included here for ease.

Goblins - Not much is said of a possible Goblin presence in the Dragon Empires; but their cousins, the Kijimuna exist and could make for a Goblin Heritage I think. The have a presence in Kaoling, along the Tuunma River banks.

Hobgoblins - The Hobgoblin conquered nation of Kaoling presents a perfect opportunity to expand on them. Seeing of their way of life differs from their sister nation of Oprak is interesting to consider.

Humans - Needless to say, the most prevalent Ancestry covered will be Humans of Tian decent. Of them all, the Tian-Yae descendants of the Shory Empire are the most mysterious. There also may be potential to see what remains of the Shory in the flying city of Yjae over the Shaguang Desert; as well as the Mutabi-qi tribes that call the desert home. Curious to see how the Taldans of Amanandar may now differ from those in Avistan, thanks to the influence of their Tian neighbors.

Jorogumo - I'm personally pretty hesitant to include them here, but with the entire nation of Shenmen essentially ruled by Jorogumo, I can see them making the same jump that Ancestries like Goblins and Hobgoblins did. I'm always down for more spider people.

Kami - The Kami Spirits that can be found throughout the Empire should get some love. I'd be hard pressed they'd ever be playable themselves, but some Kami adjacent player options would be welcomed. They'll certainly make it in the Bestiary section of such a book.

Kitsune - Likely goes without saying that all the Tian Ancestries we have already will be exanded on. Learning more on the communities of Hwaeko and Souko, or any new locations, would be welcome.

Locathah - The underwater nation of Xidao is ruled by the Locathah. They could potentially be introduced alongside some other aquatic Ancestries; but their status as the reigning authority in Xidao makes this a unique opportunity to give them an actual identity.

Nagaji - Originally introduced in Tian-Xia, they are ever present within the southern nation of Nagajor. After their incoming introduction in Impossible Lands, they will surely return in a Tian-Xia book.

Samsaran - One of two of the original Tian Ancestries we are missing. Homeland is the mountain nation of Zi Ha. Most curious to see how creative their reincarnation abilities could get.

Tanuki - PAIZO PLEASE, for all that is good and holy. I NEEEEEEEED THEM!!! I have no other reason for wanting them than the my cute son in the Fists of the Ruby Phoenix AP. I will start a Kickstarter for this and give you all the money that is made. D:

Tengu - Tengu will be there for certain. Maybe some info on some of their communities. I'm really interested in lore on Lady Jingxi and her place in Tengu life.

Tiefling - In a land where an entire nation is ruled by Oni, it is no surprise that Hungerseed Tiefling are likely present. Riftspawn probably have a presence as well, with the Qlippoth invasion of Tianjing.

Wayang - Second of the missing Tian Ancestries, the Wayang can be found throughout Tian-Xia, particular the Wandering Isles of Minata.

Next, think I may do Arcadia or High Seas. Unless Lady Keiftu wants to take the former. :D

[AnimatedPaper]

Ashanderai wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Ashanderai wrote:

keftiu wrote:

I believe it’s been said a few times that Shoony were an aberration (not the game term, the regular word) and to not expect any other Ancestries in AP backmatter. Touching on Castrovel gives me hope, but Gatewalkers isn’t going to make them playable, sadly.

True; however, I would not be surprised if they changed their minds for a unique situation. For example, if they know they will not be doing any other Starfinder-related material in some time, but they have a chance to do it now with Gatecrashers, why not make an exception to the rule for it? Also, I know it is not an ancestry, but they did release the next closest thing to that with the Pine Leshy heritage that was recently released in an AP #176 Quest for the Frozen Flame, Lost Mammoth Valley. To be clear, I am not stating that it is a certainty, just a possibility.

We didn’t get any new Ancestries out of our trip to Akiton last year. Why would Castrovel be different?

Different AP, different themes, different planet, different ancestries, different writers, different products... it doesn't matter. I can just as easily turn the question around; why not? It is just hope and speculation. Why try and take that away by harping why it can't happen? This is a speculation thread, after all. It doesn't matter if future product releases justify that anyone is right or wrong. It is just fun to speculate and hope for something. Plus, if the dev's are watching, they can gauge interest in what we, collectively, want.

I'll write it again; I'm only stating that it is a possibility - nothing more.

Also, there’s a specific difference between part 5 of an AP and part 1. If they did it at all, I still think it makes the most sense to do it on part 1 or the player guide

[keftiu]

Arcadia’s still a little foggy on the Ancestries front.

There’s Humans, obviously, in a pretty huge number of ethnicities; we’ve seen the Mahwek and the Razatlani the most, though a few others have been namedropped, including the Caldaru (who we know as having crossed the sea and founded the Mwangi nation of Senghor in the ancient past). The Americas have no shortage of indigenous peoples to pull inspiration from, and so this is a part of any hypothetical book I’d be absolutely stoked to see.

Wyrwoods fled servitude under their creators to Arcadia, where they maintain their own culture and create more of their kind using secret rituals. Androids are outsiders, Automatons are ancient relics, and Poppets are curiosities - I’d relish the chance to see a Construct Ancestry that actually has history and community with the people around them. Interestingly, they seem to come in both sentient snd non-sentient varieties, which is either a canon hiccup or something that’s really fascinating to examine. Also - they’re cute!

1e had a few animal shapechanger folk in Arcadia, both the Rougarous and what are now Beastkin. The former haven’t been mentioned in 2e yet to my knowledge, and might not exist in current canon.

I believe there was a fleeting mention in either Guns & Gears or Luis Loza’s Altameda book on Infinite, but the idea that Arcadia’s Orcs and Dwarves get along has been floated before and excites me greatly. Gnomes and Halflings both inhabit the Degasi city of Segada, and almost certainly exist across the continent. I’m less sure if Elves are known in Arcadia, though a player in the Valiant AP is playing one who I believe is native - but like the Altameda book, it isn’t technically canon.

While on the topic of Luis’s non-canon Arcadian work, his blog has lovely Couatl Aasimar and Sakhil Tiefling options that I’d gladly have made official. They’re great.

Guns & Gears mentions the Klinkois, an insect Ancestry, in passing.

LOAG mentions multiple Arcadian Amurrun (Catfolk) cultures: Mitzenki, hardy survivors in the cold north; Guarrxil, famed rangers and mercenaries from the south; and the Caimurru, natives of the western coast who often trade with fey.

LOAG also briefly touched on Arcadian Tengu, Ganzi (in Nalmeras!), Nyktera Sprites, and Strix. Enough Azarketi are established to live in the Arcadian Ocean that I’m sure there’s some contact.

A number of 1e sources deal with the Syrinx, a owl-like winged defined mostly by a massive superiority complex. They’re painted as pretty loathsome, racist jerks, and I’m curious what might be done with them for some more nuance.

That’s everything I know of!

[Ly'ualdre]

Basically what I had, plus more!!

Elves do seem largely absent from what I can tell.

I'll raise you Sasquatch and Orang-Pendak, the latter of which were playable in 1e.

I'd also dare to suggest that there are likely some Strix who still make their home there. Nothing solid to suggest this, other than Syrinx claims that they created them.
---

I'll post my ideas on the High Seas later. Heading in for surgery on my foot!

[HumbleGamer]

I'd like to have a half goblin half dwarf ancestry ( The Gorf ).

[keftiu]

Ly'ualdre wrote:

Basically what I had, plus more!!

Elves do seem largely absent from what I can tell.

I'll raise you Sasquatch and Orang-Pendak, the latter of which were playable in 1e.

I'd also dare to suggest that there are likely some Strix who still make their home there. Nothing solid to suggest this, other than Syrinx claims that they created them.
---

I'll post my ideas on the High Seas later. Heading in for surgery on my foot!

I do also want to shout out the very fun idea from the Infinite book “Kitsune of Golarion,” which presents Arcadia as having a population of native Kitsune who reside in a forest that broke off from the Tian continent in the ancient past.

Best of luck in surgery!

[PossibleCabbage]

keftiu wrote:

A number of 1e sources deal with the Syrinx, a owl-like winged defined mostly by a massive superiority complex. They’re painted as pretty loathsome, racist jerks, and I’m curious what might be done with them for some more nuance.

Well, for one thing their temples rock harder than everything else on the album.

[keftiu]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

keftiu wrote:

A number of 1e sources deal with the Syrinx, a owl-like winged defined mostly by a massive superiority complex. They’re painted as pretty loathsome, racist jerks, and I’m curious what might be done with them for some more nuance.

Well, for one thing their temples rock harder than everything else on the album.

If their sense of superiority came from good taste in prog rock, I might warm up to them pretty quick :p

[_shredder_]

A Worg ancestry or similar non-anthropomorphic animal ancestries would be awesome.

[Ly'ualdre]

_shredder_ wrote:

A Worg ancestry or similar non-anthropomorphic animal ancestries would be awesome.

I hath returned, robot foot attached!! And if slight pain!

I think an Awakened Animal would be a great option, so one can choose from a series of options. Wolf, Bear, Owlbear. Possiblies remain endless.

[keftiu]

_shredder_ wrote:

A Worg ancestry or similar non-anthropomorphic animal ancestries would be awesome.

Winter Wolves have precedent for shifting between their natural wolf forms and a humanoid shape. I’d love to see them, especially with better support for playing in animal form than Anadi and Kitsune have.