What Ancestries are you still craving?


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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My main issue with centaurs, to be honest, is just "how does a centaur climb a ladder" which I admit is selective realism, but "you gotta climb the ladder" is going to come up from time to time.

On the other hand, Cecaelias ought to be *fantastic* at climbing ladders.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:
My main issue with centaurs, to be honest, is just "how does a centaur climb a ladder" which I admit is selective realism, but "you gotta climb the ladder" is going to come up from time to time.

Easy, lots of vertical Leaps :p


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keftiu wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
My main issue with centaurs, to be honest, is just "how does a centaur climb a ladder" which I admit is selective realism, but "you gotta climb the ladder" is going to come up from time to time.

Easy, lots of vertical Leaps :p

Yeah, Centaur monks are going to be fine. It's just everybody else that I worry about.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:
My main issue with centaurs, to be honest, is just "how does a centaur climb a ladder" which I admit is selective realism, but "you gotta climb the ladder" is going to come up from time to time.

The same way they cross cattle grids. Slowly. But its not impossible.


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I have been saying for a while that the presence of all three of those creatures on Kortos makes for a compelling Ancestry argument; and would have been a great place to stick Stheno, given the Greek roots. Alas, that didn't happen. But, I still hold hope for them all being options at some point. We still have Iblydos after all. Harpies, Centaur, and Medusa (and likely Stheno) are said to have originated there.


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Ly'ualdre wrote:
I have been saying for a while that the presence of all three of those creatures on Kortos makes for a compelling Ancestry argument; and would have been a great place to stick Stheno, given the Greek roots. Alas, that didn't happen. But, I still hold hope for them all being options at some point. We still have Iblydos after all. Harpies, Centaur, and Medusa (and likely Stheno) are said to have originated there.

I’m so bummed that the Absalom book had so little time for the rest of Kortos beyond the city walls, and a big part of that was no Ancestries.

Dark Archive

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PossibleCabbage wrote:

My main issue with centaurs, to be honest, is just "how does a centaur climb a ladder" which I admit is selective realism, but "you gotta climb the ladder" is going to come up from time to time.

On the other hand, Cecaelias ought to be *fantastic* at climbing ladders.

I mean... Same way the animal companions do? x'D

Lot of centaur concerns really apply to quadruped animal companions as well


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It would be cool if there was a more generic "tiny human" ancestry that isn't connected to the fey.


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BTW, if anyone is interested, the Year of Monsters is doing a survey right now to decide what a Mimics natural form looks like. I am personally pretty partial to I myself, but I liked D and H as well.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:

My main issue with centaurs, to be honest, is just "how does a centaur climb a ladder" which I admit is selective realism, but "you gotta climb the ladder" is going to come up from time to time.

If we're being quite honest, how is this not an issue with people who opt to play paraplegic characters? Paizo devoted four whole pages to inclusivity on people who want to play those types of characters, and dismissed these same objections out of hand.

Quote:

Easy, lots of vertical Leaps :p

Horseshoes of Spider Climb/Levitate. Can only be worn by creatures with hooves* and are sold at a discount at centaur caravanserai.

*To get even more specific, you could restrict it to uncloven hooves, thereby excluding Minotaurs.


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Also... how often *will* you run into "you must climb the ladder" situations? Really? I don't tend to think of ladders as being super-common in actual life or in adventures. It's basically sieges and particularly low-rent versions of multistory buildings. Maybe if you run into a community of swamp-dwelling people with houses on stilts. It's kind of an edge case.


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For those interested, the results for the Mimic's true form poll for Year of Monster were sent out; I won by a landslide. Lol.

They are going to send that concept to artists and have them put their own design spins on it. Then I believe hold another poll with those to decide on the final look.


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Ly'ualdre wrote:

For those interested, the results for the Mimic's true form poll for Year of Monster were sent out; I won by a landslide. Lol.

They are going to send that concept to artists and have them put their own design spins on it. Then I believe hold another poll with those to decide on the final look.

Congrats. Can't wait to see it.

Dark Archive

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It does bit bum out me though because that mimic looks like decapus to me x'D

Dark Archive

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Anyway, while I think flavor of ancestry takes over the stat bonuses, does anyone else feel like we are bit missing out on specific ancestry boost combos? Especially flaw wise since I love ancestry flaws for real.

Free boost does help a bit yeah, but its still bit restrictive, like for example, when I was building 10 wisdom warpriest, I had to go with azarketi because con/cha boost with wisdom flaw was close enough to str/cha boost with wisdom flaw, so free boost had to go to strength xD


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Drow and aquatic elves


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Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:
Drow and aquatic elves

Gods I hope Aquatic Elves are given an Endonym. I really appreciate the use of Ancestral/Linguistic names used by the various people of Golarion. It would be really lame if they were simply related to Aquatic Elves and not given their own internal name for themselves.


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I now want playable Kuru terribly.

They deserve a better shake than they’ve gotten, and they had PC stats in 1e. I hope they can make this happen! I’d love to play a renegade psychic Kuru, having severed their link to the Blood Queen.

Liberty's Edge

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Given the lively discussion in another thread, I think that a Snail/Slug type Ancestry could do some work and fill a kind of slow land speed + natural Climb speed niche of pseudo-humanoids that isn't very well filled at this point.


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I’d be surprised if no one has mentioned this, but how about not worrying about making new ones for a while, and fixing the ones we have? Most of the uncommon and rare ones have great flavor, but are pretty weak, especially compared to their common counterparts.


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Not an ancestry exactly, but one thing I'd like to see make a return would be the trompe l'oeil template, probably as a versatile heritage. It could have different lineage feats based off what substance the character has been made from, like oil or chalk, and grant them some image spells at higher levels.
By the same token the reflection versatile heritage has already taken some of that space, a heritage that makes a creature the double of another, and adding trompe l'oeil options to that heritage would also be cool.


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JstCurious wrote:
I’d be surprised if no one has mentioned this, but how about not worrying about making new ones for a while, and fixing the ones we have? Most of the uncommon and rare ones have great flavor, but are pretty weak, especially compared to their common counterparts.

This cannot be said enough, and so warrants a dedicated thread of its own, where it can receive the focus it deserves.

Wayfinders

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Perpdepog wrote:

Not an ancestry exactly, but one thing I'd like to see make a return would be the trompe l'oeil template, probably as a versatile heritage. It could have different lineage feats based off what substance the character has been made from, like oil or chalk, and grant them some image spells at higher levels.

By the same token the reflection versatile heritage has already taken some of that space, a heritage that makes a creature the double of another, and adding trompe l'oeil options to that heritage would also be cool.

Yeah, an 'art-risen' lineage for reflections seems like the most elegant way of bringing that in. (And could also be used to represent a statue, in addition to a painting.)


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Keith Baker just revealed that his next Eberron book is adding playable Gargoyles, Harpies, Medusas, and Worgs to 5e, and I can’t help but feel a little jealous!


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I crave playable serpentfolks, nagaji just aren't it for me


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Archdracolich wrote:
I crave playable serpentfolks, nagaji just aren't it for me

Okay. What is inadequate about them? What would a race of serpentfolk need to have to scratch that itch for you?

Radiant Oath

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Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:
Drow and aquatic elves

Yes. And adjustments to the Half-Elf heritage to accommodate them too (there COULD be Half-Drow and Half-Aquatic-Elf heritages, but I imagine it'd be easier and more efficient to just include their options under the larger half-elf umbrella)!


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Sanityfaerie wrote:
Archdracolich wrote:
I crave playable serpentfolks, nagaji just aren't it for me
Okay. What is inadequate about them? What would a race of serpentfolk need to have to scratch that itch for you?

that they look like conspiricy theory reptilians and absolutely nothing like snakes?


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Kekkres wrote:
that they look like conspiricy theory reptilians and absolutely nothing like snakes?

I wish to be clear. I'm not trying to suggest that one *ought* to consider them adequate. I mean, this whole thing is about personal preference and what does and does not feel right to individual people. To the degree that there's anything beyond that to appeal to at all, it only comes from having lots of people feel the same way at the same time.

So... we have at least one (and now, apparently, at least two) people who feel that these serpentfolk are inadequate. Okay. Cool. So... if they came out with some other serpentfolk ancestry, what would it take for that one to feel right? For that matter, what would your *ideal* serpentfolk look and/or act like? Honestly just looking for something a bit clearer than "That one's bad. Give us another".

For that matter, while you're at it, what would be the Cool Things about (the serpentfolk ancestry of your dreams)? What would you see as the shiny awesome stuff that would be reason for *other* people to get excited about it? What kind of stories or moments or imagery or mechanics would you be able to get out of them that you just couldn't get from a human?

Dark Archive

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Kekkres wrote:
Sanityfaerie wrote:
Archdracolich wrote:
I crave playable serpentfolks, nagaji just aren't it for me
Okay. What is inadequate about them? What would a race of serpentfolk need to have to scratch that itch for you?
that they look like conspiricy theory reptilians and absolutely nothing like snakes?

I mean 2e nagaji do look more like snakes than 1e ones did apparently based on one art we have seen


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...and because I threw down a bit of a challenge there, and it might be a bit rude for me to not follow up, I suppose I'll go into what *my* ideal serpentfolk would look like

naga-style serpent tail, with the scales starting to fade as they cross the waist. by the time it reaches the face and hands, it's down to occasional decorative patches. Has access (possibly via feats) to a tail slap unarmed attack (1d4 or 1d6 bludgeoning, trip, grapple) and a bite attack (1d4 piercing, finesse, agile) The bite attack can pick up ongoing poison damage and/or some sort of useful poison-based debuff based on a fort save applied on hit (or crit, I suppose, if that's necessary for balance reasons). Basically, "wrap someone up in your tail, and then bite them until the poison kicks in" should be a reasonable strategy that a player might actually want to try to employ. Bonus points if its possible to get a useful constrict effect, though I understand that that may not be viable for ancestry feats.

They'd probably have low-light vision, or at least have it available as an early feat.

Other potentially interesting stuff...
- Lunging Strike: Feat. Single action flourish. Step and then strike with a bite attack.
- Hypnotic Eyes: This would probably be one of those "Cast X spell or spells 1/day" feats, with an appropriate spell
- Heritages for jungle, desert, and aquatic. The tail and/or bite might also be heritages, but it should be possible to have both if you're willing to spend feats for it.

I admit, though, mostly my interest is that I really like grapple builds, and I'd love to see an ancestry or two that would lean into that side of things.

I also admit that what I have here feels like about... half of a good ancestry? Like, it's generic snake-people being generically snakey. That could use some other source of flavor to make it really stand out. Also, they're a bit too human-looking to be *just* generic snake-people. They're pretty clearly some sort of magical hybrid, so whatever the other side of things is, it needs to have a good explanation for that. It's not going to be gods, because the snake-themed gods all have their own non-human snake people that they like better. So... probably something comparatively recent?

Well, if we're letting the first half be somewhat generic, we can let the second half also be somewhat generic. So... these people were being effectively bred by a fairly powerful snake-themed demon lord types (likely mariliths under the auspices of Abraxas and/or Andirifkhu) because they wanted something that was more or less marilith-like but that could be bred in numbers and then oppressed as a proper servant race. At some point before the process was complete, however, they were broken free of that excruciatingly painful experience by some divinity or other, quite possible working through a liberator-heavy group of heroes or something, and then managed to escape out to Golarion proper, where it was much harder for their would-be patrons to find them.

So now they've got this interesting duality thing going on, because they have cruelty, demonic corruption and servitude literally worked into the blood and the bone but they *also* have the ongoing patronage of a good god and a strong cultural drive to not fall to their baser nature, because they want to be better than what their captors tried to turn them into. So you've got feats for embracing the divine side ad you've got feats for falling back into corruption and you've got feats for those who decide that they really do want to go in for the duality of it all and take a bit from each... and by now you've had enough centuries that enough of both the taint and the memories have faded that there's a decent number of folks who just want to go around being snakey and think that the folks who swing too far divine or demonic are *both* a little crazy.

Basically, it's a springboard for telling all sorts of stories about where you might be on the divine/demonic spectrum, from a culture where that's a thing that the culture has been dealing with for a whole bunch of generations and has built up some lore around. Then, too, the fact that the ancestry regularly produces both saints and monsters has its own effects on what people think of them and how they're treated in various places.

So that's my idea, anyway. I'd love to hear someone else's?


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I’m very happy to have Nagaji and Serpentfolk coming, because each has an identity of their own - the former exist in symbiosis with powerful Aberrations, the latter can nearly pass for human and have some potential with that tension - and that’s also why I want proper Serpentfolk/Sekmin playable.

It’s not about looking like a snake, it’s about their history and place in the lore. I can’t make a Nagaji Oracle who hears the maddening whispers of their headless ancestral god, or a Vishkanya Psychic who resents that history has utterly forgotten their historic glories, because those stories are uniquely Sekmin.


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CorvusMask wrote:
Kekkres wrote:
Sanityfaerie wrote:
Archdracolich wrote:
I crave playable serpentfolks, nagaji just aren't it for me
Okay. What is inadequate about them? What would a race of serpentfolk need to have to scratch that itch for you?
that they look like conspiricy theory reptilians and absolutely nothing like snakes?
I mean 2e nagaji do look more like snakes than 1e ones did apparently based on one art we have seen

Where was that?


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Ravingdork wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:
Kekkres wrote:
Sanityfaerie wrote:
Archdracolich wrote:
I crave playable serpentfolks, nagaji just aren't it for me
Okay. What is inadequate about them? What would a race of serpentfolk need to have to scratch that itch for you?
that they look like conspiricy theory reptilians and absolutely nothing like snakes?
I mean 2e nagaji do look more like snakes than 1e ones did apparently based on one art we have seen
Where was that?

Does this link work? It was shown at PaizoCon, for their upcoming inclusion in the Impossible Lands book.


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I'm still pining for the Wayang. Maybe someday...


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Albatoonoe wrote:
I'm still pining for the Wayang. Maybe someday...

They're a shoo-in for any Tian Xia book, alongside Samsarans. I'm actually a little puzzled as to who else they have left to introduce with such a thing.


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Locathah would also be a shoo-in for a Tian Xia book.


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Brinebeast wrote:
Locathah would also be a shoo-in for a Tian Xia book.

I'd completely missed the idea of Xidao to introduce aquatic Ancestries, that's brilliant! It and Wanshou are both super unique, and handy for proving that Tian Xia can be more than just stand-ins for real Asian nations.

Locathah are also apparently part of Kwanlai's populace, so it seems like our fishy friends have a surprisingly good shot at getting in such a book!


I would love to see a versatile heritage that makes everyone tiny.


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Hm. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R-rbzcEM8A

:-)


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_shredder_ wrote:
I would love to see a versatile heritage that makes everyone tiny.

Try this one!

Minimaker (Versatile Heritage)

Legends speak of a creature so tiny that its mere existence causes everything else to be tiny as well. You are one such creature. Starting from the moment you select this versatile heritage, everyone and everything is now Tiny. This doesn't affect anyone else's reach except yours, though; somehow they still reach comically far away while your reach is reduced to 0 feet. As an added bonus, it's much easier to use all those maps from published adventures with rooms that don't really fit all the monsters, without needing to make each square 10 feet instead of 5. You gain the minimaker trait, in addition to the traits of your ancestry. You can choose from minimaker feats and feats from your ancestry whenever you gain an ancestry feat.


Eh... who needs mounts?


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I’m once again hurting for a fey Versatile Heritage. It would open up so many Kingmaker characters - they can’t all be Fey Sorcerers and Witches!

The same for Shadow would be nice, too. I know we have Kayal and (hopefully!) Wayangs, but being able to add that flavor to any base Ancestry would be really nice.


Doesn't Kingmaker kind of assume that the PCs are not people who know much of anything about the Fae and the First World? I'm not saying a GM could not make it work for something like a Gathlain Inquisitor of Ng, but it would require a lot of additional work I think.


PossibleCabbage wrote:
Doesn't Kingmaker kind of assume that the PCs are not people who know much of anything about the Fae and the First World? I'm not saying a GM could not make it work for something like a Gathlain Inquisitor of Ng, but it would require a lot of additional work I think.

You can have a tie to the Fey without knowing much about it. The option of a character who has a whiff of the First World about them that they've never really understand, one falling further into unseen fey machinations (or just strangely drawn to such schemes) is a lot of fun. Such a character would know less than a Gnome, who are perfectly acceptable in this AP.


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Wyvaran ancestries for kobolds, an alternate trait to make kobolds Medium, or wyvarans as a separate ancestry with access to kobold heritages

"Tauric", for centaurs, could be a versatile heritage, with feats changing your lower body to match a different animal.


JiCi wrote:
Wyvaran ancestries for kobolds, an alternate trait to make kobolds Medium, or wyvarans as a separate ancestry with access to kobold heritages.

Yes to all of this! I'd love support for Wyvarans, and I'd really enjoy a Medium Kobold heritage.


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keftiu wrote:
JiCi wrote:
Wyvaran ancestries for kobolds, an alternate trait to make kobolds Medium, or wyvarans as a separate ancestry with access to kobold heritages.
Yes to all of this! I'd love support for Wyvarans, and I'd really enjoy a Medium Kobold heritage.

Anything to finally bring a suitable dragonborn-esque ancestry into Pathfinder, at this point...

Kobolds already have the venomtail heritage, which is clearly modelled after wyverns... which are what wyvarans are bred from. Technically, we're close :P

On a sidenote, MAYBE a versatile heritage based on giants could work better, as in your character got unnatural growth spurs XD


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keftiu wrote:
I’m once again hurting for a fey Versatile Heritage. It would open up so many Kingmaker characters - they can’t all be Fey Sorcerers and Witches!

You could also run Pactbinder and/or Living Vessel archetypes to get a touch of they fey that way, though I'll admit that both of them are rather specific.

This is not me saying that there shouldn't be a fey-based versatile heritage, though. I'll admit that it's the sort of thing it might be nice to have one of. For that matter, a versatile heritage with an aberrant theme might be nice, too.


Sanityfaerie wrote:
keftiu wrote:
I’m once again hurting for a fey Versatile Heritage. It would open up so many Kingmaker characters - they can’t all be Fey Sorcerers and Witches!

You could also run Pactbinder and/or Living Vessel archetypes to get a touch of they fey that way, though I'll admit that both of them are rather specific.

This is not me saying that there shouldn't be a fey-based versatile heritage, though. I'll admit that it's the sort of thing it might be nice to have one of. For that matter, a versatile heritage with an aberrant theme might be nice, too.

I’m still bummed Fleshwarp isn’t a VH! I’d love an aberrant option.

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