_shredder_'s page

I'm surprised that we still don't have a second slow but tough ancestry besides dwarfs. A snail/slug based ancestry kinda like the osharu from starfinder with a cooler aesthetic would be perfect for this.

Some new occult themed book that includes new thaumaturge implements and new psychic (sub)conscious minds. Both are some of my favorite classes and didn't get any major new options so far since their release.

As a Kineticist fan myself, I'd love something that is basically a stronger Psychokineticist archetype. I just really really really really want to be able to use paper as my main weapon and mode of travel and not die immediately. Yes, I did watch "Read or Die" and loved it. Hence.

As a giant pf1 psychokineticist fan, I would love to see it come back as a class archetype, and all I really want from it is changing the KAS and switching the Fortitude and Will save progressions, so I can play a fully mentally focused kineticist that feels more like a typical cloth caster than a tough martial.

A sequel to RoE with tons of new kineticist impulses and class archetypes to replicate at least one of the mental kineticists from pf1 (these were always so much cooler than the standard kineticist to me).

A new version of SoM, with updated magic lore, many new spells, new subclasses/class archetypes for casters and maybe a new caster class.

_shredder_ wrote:

I still have hope that we will eventually get class archetypes for necromancers of other traditions. Occult will always be the least fitting and least interesting tradition for necromancy for me, but the class looks already great otherwise.

While I don't agree with you, I would like to point out that they said in the briefing that they'll be making it so Necromancers have access to the Necromancy themed spells that AREN'T on the Occult list, so that should satisfy most of your itch.

It really doesn't, because I just really love the concept of a 100% primal necromancer, a master over life and matter (the essences of the primal tradition) who has absolutely nothing to do with the occult in any way and isn't able to do the mind and soul magic occult should be about. Arcane or divine necromancers would be cool too and more fitting to me than occult.

I still have hope that we will eventually get class archetypes for necromancers of other traditions. Occult will always be the least fitting and least interesting tradition for necromancy for me, but the class looks already great otherwise.

Shouldn't we get a Mesmerist Mind for Psychic before giving the Thaumatheurge a similar object?

That's my reasoning here.

We already have a conscious mind focused on enchantment. What would a mesmerist mind do mechanically thats so different from silent whisper?

When it comes to psychics I would love to see a conscious mind about toxikinesis, one about healing amd one about sound manipulation and sonic damage.

Wouldn't hypnoticism be better for the Psychic?

Wouldn't elemental blasting be better for the sorcerer or kineticist? The whole point of the implementats is that you get abilities that offer different takes on stuff other classes do, like how amulet works similar to champions reaction and weapon gives a specialized reactive strike. What I hope for would give the thaumaturge some kind of unique debuff/enchantment ability that compares to actual debuff casters the same way the wand implement compares to actual blaster casters.

Silent whisper psychics make great mentalists in general, but they are really not made to stand right in someones face and swing a pendulum around.

_shredder_ wrote:

I hope we will see additional thaumaturge implements one day! Something like a pendulum implement that gives a thaumaturge some small enchantment powers would be especially cool.

A pendulum would have more to do with dousing if you gave it to a thaumaturge though.

I was thinking about that type of pendulum hypnoticists swing around in front of you to put you in a trance. But a dousing rod implement coukd be cool too, even though I have no idea what mechanical niche that could fill.

I hope we will see additional thaumaturge implements one day! Something like a pendulum implement that gives a thaumaturge some small enchantment powers would be especially cool.

I would love to see multiple poison damage impulses for wood and earth kineticists in the future. Right now we don't have a single one, they all deal physical damage. Also acid impulses for water and more than one cold damage impulse. Acid and poison magic are so underrepresented in pf2.

I don't want a runesmith who is an actual caster with actual spells, just a runesmith who doesn't rely on their own weapon strikes and physical force at all and instead just fights only with (rune)magic. So it would be awesome if we had the option to trade the martial weapon proficiency progression for something else via cleric style subclasses.

I fully support this, since a caster like runesmith who never strikes and fully focuses on runes sounds way more interesting to me than a martial with some rune abilities. It would be great if we could get both options.

of all casters, why would necromancer be pick-a-list? the three pick-a-list classes we do have (sorcerer, witch, summoner) are that way because the source of magic can vary wildly in its nature (inherited bloodline, pact with a powerful entity, summoned extraplanar entity). Necromancer does not have this variety of sources (it's just undead, you summon spooky gross corpses) and forcing pick-a-list makes as much sense on it as it would on wizard or an oracle. yeah you can kinda ramshackle a justification, but it doesn't feel natural for the class.

Some classes are obviously thematically tied to a specific spell list, like the wizard is the arcane class or the druid is the primal class, and some just need to be limited to a spell list for balancing concerns.

As I see it, neither is true for the necromancer - necromancy isn't traditionally tied to only occult, necromancy was a wizard school before and undead sorcerers/summoners use the divine list. And similarly to a summoner, the slotted spells shouldn't be the main focus of the class anyway, so the up and downsides of different spell lists don't matter that much.

R3st8 wrote:

I can totally understand why people who want the occult spell list are voicing their opinions, but why would anyone try to shut down others from having the option to choose between the two lists? If you don't like divine spells, then just choose to play occult.

You're right. While on the topic, I think my Fighter should have the choice to trade weapon expertise for Sneak Attack. Rage, or Exploit Vulnerability. Don't limit my choices!

You can already do exactly this while staying a martial who makes weapon strikes by choosing another class. There is nothing in the game that resembles the necromancers central thrall mechanic, so this is a completely different thing. Wanting the option for another spell list (that many classes share) has nothing to do with wanting the central unique class mechanic of another class.

So I don't get why you need to build up this strawman and act so smug and condescending about it when what I'm trying to suggest is way more similar to liking everything about magus besides that it's always arcane, something I have seen many people express who don't find other gish options as satisfying.

YuriP wrote:

Also we never saw the designers changes their concepts due players complains here in forum or in reddit. Expect that you will be just ignored or the designers answering that he doesn´t like the idea for the character concept that he is creating.

As a note, this isn't entirely true. The witch became a full pick-a-list caster in its final release, which it wasn't when it was initially presented. IIRC we had options for occult and primal, and maybe arcane? It wasn't originally also going to have divine.

That being said I'm much more in favor of the necromancer remaining exclusively occult. The other pick-a-list casters are broader concepts than a necromancer, IMO. Necromancer as a concept will benefit more from being more narrowly focused and explored, as opposed to the wider net that classes like sorcerer and witch cast, so I'd rather not see room taken up with feats linked to their different traditions.

I really don't want feats for different traditions, I would be completely fine with getting basically the playtest necromancer with one additional choice and nothing else. I completely agree that feats and abilities should focus on unique necromancer and not general caster stuff.

_shredder_ wrote:

To me primal is just a way more interesting and fitting tradition for necromancy than occult - creating primitive mindless skeletal thralls feels way more fitting to a tradition focused on manipulating matter and life, than one focused on manipulating mind and spirit. But I think every tradition can make a good argument for their specific version of necromancy being represented if you have some imagination and creativity.

As long as their aren't any big mechanical balancing concerns, I just find it kinda sad to limit player options and make many cool concepts unplayable without homebrew. And as I said, it's not like I want paizo to overhaul the class completely and make something new that has nothing to do with playtest necromancer, just adding a single sentence would basically solve all my problems.

Just like arcane was made avoiding healing spells, primal was made with the concept of avoid unlife spell. It's the most unlikely tradition for necromancy.

Again. I'm not against a multi-tradition necromancer. I just don´t believe that the designers will go through this way.

To me the difference is that arcane not having healing spells is a big balancing factor to nerf an already incredibly versatile spell list, while I don't see a druid or primal sorcerer getting a noticeable mechanical advantage from getting necromancy spells on the primal list. And even then, nothing stops an arcane witch from picking up the life boost spell, so I don't see how thats that different compared to a primal caster getting necromancy powers through class abilities.

I find the concept of a primal necromancer so exciting specifically because it plays against the stereotypes associated with primal castersband yet works imo really well thematically. Ofc I don't have big hope that paizo will agree with me here, but it can never hurt to try. And maybe at least something like a class archetype could be possible in the future...

To me primal is just a way more interesting and fitting tradition for necromancy than occult - creating primitive mindless skeletal thralls feels way more fitting to a tradition focused on manipulating matter and life, than one focused on manipulating mind and spirit. But I think every tradition can make a good argument for their specific version of necromancy being represented if you have some imagination and creativity.

As long as their aren't any big mechanical balancing concerns, I just find it kinda sad to limit player options and make many cool concepts unplayable without homebrew. And as I said, it's not like I want paizo to overhaul the class completely and make something new that has nothing to do with playtest necromancer, just adding a single sentence would basically solve all my problems.

I like almost everything what I read about the playtest necromancer, especially the awesome thrall mechanics. Except that it is always occult and I just don't see any mechanical or thematical reason why it has to be this way. The occult necromancer is a concept that should be playable, but so is the divine, arcane or primal one. A primal necromancer especially would be so cool and unique. And simply adding an additional subclass that changes your spell tradition would take very little design and page space, so those who only want occult necromancers wouldn't really loose anything,while others would have options for so many new character concepts.

I hope we get more psychic conscious mind options in the future. A toxikinesis focused one that heavily buffs puff of poison into something that isn't complete trash and gives you other options to psychically manipulate poisons and deal poison damage would be awesome and super unique. A healing focused one or one focused on sound and sonic damage would be cool too, as would be having WIS based subconscious minds.

I like the new lore, but I don't like how the mechanics of PC2 kobolds are not good at representing that lore and how the changes feel shallow and rushed in general. For example the spellhorn heritage gives you access to innate arcane magic, but there is no similar heritage for other traditions - even though there is absolutely nothing in the new kobold lore that connects them to the arcane thematically.

_shredder_ wrote:

Legacy ancestors oracle was quite objectively one of the worst subclasses in the system, but it was also probably the mechanically most fun build I ever played here. I loved going all in on the curse and letting the ancestors decide how my character plays every turn. My big hope was that remaster would keep everything that was so incredibly cool and unique about ancestors oracle and its playstyle while making the passive benefits stronger.

From what it looks like the exact opposite happened - all the flavorful ancestor mechanics are gone, and ancestor will now play very similar to other oracles and divine sorcs, while still being not all that good due to getting one of more punishing curses.

While legacy ancestors oracle wasn't perfectly designed, it did an amazing job at making me actually feel like my character is possessed by their ancestors. Mechanics and flavor worked perfectly together. I don't care that the mystery is probably stronger on average now, having as many slots as a sorcerer and becoming clumsy after using a strong spell like ability has just nothing to do with what made ancestors oracle appealing to me in any way.

The old "roll 1d4 and see what you're this round" still exists but as a cursebound feat.

So, if you liked that flavour, you can still do it.

It's just that objectively it was bad to leave it as a chance what to do each round, so I don't think many will be picking said feat.

The cursebound feat meddling futures is absolutely terrible (especially compared to other powerful cursebound feats) and even more punishing and less rewarding than the ancestors curse was, and you have to use it every turn if you want that flavorful mechanic instead of it just being an always on thing that gives you passive benefits, which is extremely restricting and makes the class way more repetitive. My previous ancestors oracle also used a bow to strike when possesed by a warrior ancestor, and becoming clumsier ever round completely kills that type of build - if you want to hit anything with strikes while cursed you need to use melee weapons and prioritize STR now (and enter melee combat with ridiculously bad AC due to clumsy).

An ancestors oracle that picks up one of the many good oracle feats instead of meddling futures, never makes weapon strikes, never interacts with the ancestors mechanic and mostly plays like a normal divine caster with a strong damage focus spell (ancestral touch got a big buff) is absolutely not weak and much stronger than the ancestor oracle I played, but that's just not very interesting to me.

An ancestors oracle who plays fully into the curse and rolls dice to decide which action to take this turn (like the oracle I loved playing) is even weaker than it was before and went from "really not good but you can kinda make it work if you try" to an absolutely awful option.

Legacy ancestors oracle was quite objectively one of the worst subclasses in the system, but it was also probably the mechanically most fun build I ever played here. I loved going all in on the curse and letting the ancestors decide how my character plays every turn. My big hope was that remaster would keep everything that was so incredibly cool and unique about ancestors oracle and its playstyle while making the passive benefits stronger.

From what it looks like the exact opposite happened - all the flavorful ancestor mechanics are gone, and ancestor will now play very similar to other oracles and divine sorcs, while still being not all that good due to getting one of more punishing curses.

While legacy ancestors oracle wasn't perfectly designed, it did an amazing job at making me actually feel like my character is possessed by their ancestors. Mechanics and flavor worked perfectly together. I don't care that the mystery is probably stronger on average now, having as many slots as a sorcerer and becoming clumsy after using a strong spell like ability has just nothing to do with what made ancestors oracle appealing to me in any way.

The monks spade is such a cool weapon and pf1 had mechanics for it, so I hope it will return at some point. Maybe as a 2h 1d8B polearm with the monk, reach, versatile S and shove traits.

What I would want from a shifter type class is essentially an untamed druid without spell slots and the anathema, and instead more powerful focus spell based battleforms that keep up with actual martials and go beyond what a druid is allowed to turn into. A character who is neither a good weapon user nor a versatile caster, but can transform into shapes that function kinda like a weaker fighter/barbarian/monk/guardian/rogue depending on the situation, maybe even with access to caster forms at higher levels.

_shredder_ wrote:

This could be maybe solved with a general class archetype, but I don't like that every dedicated skill user (mainly rogue and investigator, tome thaumaturge, inventor and commander to a lesser degree) is a martial. I would really enjoy playing a full caster who trades some casting power for being an actual skill monkey.

There are Intelligence-based casters, at least.

I was about to propose a Minky Momo-style profession-swapping magical girl as a concept for a skillmonkey/caster, but I guess that's what the Imperial Bloodline Sorcerer is already.

Getting a lot of trained skills doesn't really make you a skill monkey past lv1 in this system, getting more skills up to expert/master/legendary does. I was thinking of a someone who gets the same extra skill feats and skill increases as a rogue/investigator, while fighting with spells and mental power instead of making weapon strikes.

This could be maybe solved with a general class archetype, but I don't like that every dedicated skill user (mainly rogue and investigator, tome thaumaturge, inventor and commander to a lesser degree) is a martial. I would really enjoy playing a full caster who trades some casting power for being an actual skill monkey.

A true all magical, all mentally powered magical striker.

Not a true versatile caster with resources like a psychic or sorcerer, not a weapon using gish like a starlit magus, not a sturdy area damage dealer like a kineticist, but a class almost entirely focused on making high damage, high accuracy ranged unarmed strikes with a mental stat that deal non-physical damage.

The closest official option to do something like this is an investigator/eldritch archer with sprites spark or foxfire, which takes quite a few levels to work at all and is still not all that good or satisfying.

It's just not very great when a decent part of the classes power budget goes to something you never want to use (the same weapon accuracy as an inventor or thaumaturge,dedicated striker classes).

A subclass choice that lets the commander get caster style weapon proficiency progression and no shield block in exchange for an auto scaling skill and 1 more prepared tactic would do a lot to let me feel like I'm not playing against the system by going when I play a commander as s pure nonmagical support.

I'm also quite disappointed in that the commander gets full martial weapon proficiency scaling and is expected to strike - what made me interested in such a class is the ability to play a nonmagical full support who doesn't have to deal direct damage at all to be effective. I don't want to strike as a commander or be strong myself, I want to command allies to do the job for me and make them stronger.

I think two different class paths (one for pure support, the other for a supportive striker) would be the best choice to allow both playstyles.

A non-magical, non-striking pure support character who is useful just through their great mental abilities is something I always wanted to play in this system. So I'm still super hyped, even if the detail that the class partly relies on daily preparations has dampened my interest a bit as I never really enjoy these types of mechanics.

I hope the commands of the commander will basically be a much better version of to battle from the marshall archetype, letting the commander spend actions to let allies do stuff outside of their turn without using uo their reaction.

My big hope is that I will be able to build a commander as a pure backline support who doesn't own weapons, has weak physical stats and never makes strikes, and instead just passes around buffs and free actions, like a nonmagical INT bard. That would instantly be one of my favorite classes in the game.

My big hope is that an awakened horse/pony will actually be able to make a viable in combat mount for another PC. That would be awesome.

I wish the monks speed boost was an untyped bonus instead of a status bonus. It kinda annoys me that you can use longstrider on a fighter to make them just as fast as a monk, but you can't use longstrider to make the monk even faster.

Deer Instinct is absolutely overpowered, not compared to other martials or other barbarian instincts, but compared to all other animal options. Getting free reach on your main attack is so good, andother animal instincts just get nothing even remotely comparable. I hope remaster will give you a mechanical reason to choose shark over deer outside of the incredible rare campaign in the oceans.

If balance is a concern, there could be a third animistic practive that gives you better scaling perception (expert at 1, master at 9, legendary at 17) as its main advantage, with otherwise worse scaling saves and worse boons.

A lot of the animists themes seem to be based around perceiving stuff others can't, yet the playtest has the same awful perception progression as every other caster who isn't a bard. I think giving the animist expert perception at lv1 scaling up to master or maybe even legendary would fit the class really well (better than it does the bard) and make it more different from a cleric. It always annoyed me a bit that every character build around really high perception in pf2e is a martial, and the animist would be the perfect opportunity to change that. The class looks otherwise really cool so far!

_shredder_ wrote:

If you can get the proficiency and start with 16DEX, a shortbow is a pretty good weapon on pretty much any full caster who occasionally has a free third action. Will the same be true about a full caster who starts with 16CON and goes into the kineticist archetype to occasionally make blasts instead of bow shots? Or will a runed up bow still deal more damage, even with the bad weapon proficiency scaling of a caster?

The blast can only get expert proficiency with a feat, still uses con as its attack attribute, is a d6 or d8, and can only scale up to 4d6 or 4d8 by spending one feat per extra die. So no, it's not better than shortbow. Huge feat sink that at least doesn't cost money. (Unless you get that item bonus thing for blasts.)

Thanks, that sounds fine. I didn't expect it to be better than a bow, just a cool alternative that fits some characters style better and doesn't completely suck in comparison. As long as the accuracy can keep up, I'm fine with it. And the kineticist will probably still get some decent low level feats that could be nice on a caster. Especially passive abilities, non-DC using utility impulses and reactions. Right now I'm thinking of a tempest oracle going into hydrokineticist for water blasts.

If you can get the proficiency and start with 16DEX, a shortbow is a pretty good weapon on pretty much any full caster who occasionally has a free third action. Will the same be true about a full caster who starts with 16CON and goes into the kineticist archetype to occasionally make blasts instead of bow shots? Or will a runed up bow still deal more damage, even with the bad weapon proficiency scaling of a caster?

Are there any new feats for other classes besides summoner and barbarian? I kinda hoped for new elemental monk stances like rain of embers.

Can an air elemental eidolon fly earlier than other eidolons?

I like the concept of a mad scientist kineticist who gained fire/acid blasting powers by performing alchemical experiments on themselves. Hopefully a kineticist starting with 14INT for alchemist dedication at lv2 will be viable.

Are there any new lv1-5 spells that allow my druid to focus more on acid blasting?

Can any kineticist turn their basic blast into acid damage? Are their any new elemental save targeting cantrips that can compete with EA?

I already planned a conrasu wood geniekin wood kineticist to go all in on the tree theme.

Now, powerwise what we know about elemental blast sounds awesome. But I really don't like that you apperently need to invest in strength if you want a high damage kineticist, and it makes me wish even more for something like a psychokineticist class archetype. I just really want a viable mentally strong and physically weak kineticist in pf2e.

Besides an acid blast option, a class archetype that changes your KAS to a mental score is my biggest hope. Pathfinder 1 dark elementalist and psychokineticist were always so much cooler than than the normal kineticist to me.

A spell that lets me roll d20s for damage. I don't care if it heightens at +2 and is just a worse version of a d10 spell that heightens at +1. I just want to roll the big dice as often as possible.

I think the monks speed boost should be 1. a first level class feature, and 2. an untyped bonus like fleet instead of a status bonus. I don't like that you can use longstrider to make another martial just as fast as the monk, but not to make the monk even faster.

Also, I feel like a reaction similar to opportune riposte that lets you make an athletic maneuver instead of a strike would fit a monk really well, and just like fighters and swashbucklers monks should be able to have multiple reactions at higher levels. Reactions are such a key part of many martial arts.

Besides that I really like the monk class, I have seen both STR and DEX monks being really effective, but I haven't seen a high level one yet where they seem to fall off.

Since many here have talked about potential different versions of FoB, here is one I came up with:

You strike. On a crit, you can make another strike and your MAP doesn't increase. On a hit, you can make another strike, but your MAP increases normally. On a failed attack, the flurry of blows ends.

This would allow really lucky monks to truly dish out a lot of attacks (theoretically infinite), while preventing a flurry of misses.

Thanks for the reminder, you have much better memory than me... The creature in the picture turned out to be some kind of elemental, with cool but rather PC-unfriendly lore if I remember it right. I'm personally not the biggest fan of osharus aesthetically , giving slugs goofy legs so that they walk around like generic humanoids instead of gliding on the ground like actual slugs kinda ruins them for me.