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It works kinda like Double Slice without an agile weapon when the summoner use it (as the summoner is one proficiency down), but instead of dual wielding need the eidolon and summoner in range. Decent enough.
The summoner also loses a bit of damage by not being able to benefit from Boost. Plus you're looking at additional feats for better weapons and armor in order to boost your damage and defenses up to par (you could stay unarmored and grab a simple finesse or ranged weapon, but that tanks your damage down even more).
Like I said, it's fun and at least kind of functional, but in the end you've spent 2-4 feats (maybe more) in order to basically be no better off (and potentially worse) than what you could do with no feat investment at all. It's definitely undertuned. Though it's certainly no Eldritch Claws either.
I'm fine so long as it functions. Heroism from divine should cover some of the gap. I just wanna charge into battle with the eidelon. Heal spell and lay on hands should cover the health concerns.
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Guess even nethys will be updated after September 1th.
AoN is always updated on or around the street date. My guess is at least most of the work is done and on Sept 1st they'll just make it live.
Makes sense not to have it online until the general public can buy it
Small correction here, the spells from the middle feat aren't just 1st and 2nd level. They're always two levels lower than the highest level the summoner casts, so they climb as you do. I've been starting to come around to the idea maybe it's more helpful than a dedication since the slots climb.That makes it a bit harder maybe I'll forgo sorcerer. Can the angel get any casting?I'm excited to make an angel summoner with 3-5 champion feats and 5 sorc feats for more divine spellcasting. Idk what level strike together is but I wanna fit that in there too. Probably human aasimar for natural ambition. All dedication stuff with almost no room for cool summoner stuff but my lord it seems really cool on paper. Selfishly cast heroism on myself and jump into the fray with my angel buddy. Fingers crossed wrath of the righteous gets a 2e conversion years down the road, lol.It's level 6.Lvl 17 feature is a single lvl 17 remove "x".
Then have a lvl 2 feat for 2 innate cantrips.
A lvl 8 one for a single lvl1 and lvl 2 spell.
Then a 18 one for spells from lvl 1 to 7.
I had read it wrong then, thanks for correcting me. Might make it more interesting for me to make the eidolon do stuff like blazing dive and blink charge.
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I just got my book yesterday.
Does anyone that has their physical copy feel like the physical pages feel different (like in a good way)?
It's a beautiful book, that's for sure.
Quick questions about eidolon and property weapon/armor runes:
- Can the eidolon benefit from property armor and weapon runes?
- Are there specific limits for the eidolon?
- What about a speed rune? I mean, would be able to benefit from it either the eidolon or the summoner?
- What about triggering weaknesses with precious materials? how is the eidolon going to interact with silver/coldiron/adamantine resistances?
That's a good question. So eidolons do benefit from weapon property runes, but not from armor property runes. You can only be quickened once, so speed doesn't cause complications. I didn't see any ways for eidolons to get precious materials for their strikes.
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Thinking about it, unarmed Laughing Shadow Magus have an advantage of being able to hold a staff in one hand that other weapons in that hybrid study can't.
You don't even really need Arcane Fist as a lot of ancestries also gives access to d6 finesse unarmed (like Catfolk claws) or even d8 STR ones (Gnoll bite).
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I just got my book yesterday.
Does anyone that has their physical copy feel like the physical pages feel different (like in a good way)?
It's a beautiful book, that's for sure.
The book is stunningly beautiful and feels like a work of art in your hands. I am very impressed. I had moved to PDFs for everything but the APs for a long time, but this book and the Mwangi expanse book have brought back the joy of having a physical copy for being able to deep dive read into the lore and flavor of the game instead of just being interested in mining game mechanics.
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Thinking about it, unarmed Laughing Shadow Magus have an advantage of being able to hold a staff in one hand that other weapons in that hybrid study can't.
You don't even really need Arcane Fist as a lot of ancestries also gives access to d6 finesse unarmed (like Catfolk claws) or even d8 STR ones (Gnoll bite).
I have a Laughing Shadow Magus in my game tonight with a finesse bite attack. It's shaping up to be a very effective character.
I have a Laughing Shadow Magus in my game tonight with a finesse bite attack. It's shaping up to be a very effective character.Thinking about it, unarmed Laughing Shadow Magus have an advantage of being able to hold a staff in one hand that other weapons in that hybrid study can't.
You don't even really need Arcane Fist as a lot of ancestries also gives access to d6 finesse unarmed (like Catfolk claws) or even d8 STR ones (Gnoll bite).
Any notable moments so far? That's the magus I want to see in action the most right now.
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Any notable moments so far? That's the magus I want to see in action the most right now.I have a Laughing Shadow Magus in my game tonight with a finesse bite attack. It's shaping up to be a very effective character.Thinking about it, unarmed Laughing Shadow Magus have an advantage of being able to hold a staff in one hand that other weapons in that hybrid study can't.
You don't even really need Arcane Fist as a lot of ancestries also gives access to d6 finesse unarmed (like Catfolk claws) or even d8 STR ones (Gnoll bite).
We just started! First fight in Strength of Thousands had them use their full turn to run to the action then they only got one attack
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Any notable moments so far? That's the magus I want to see in action the most right now.I have a Laughing Shadow Magus in my game tonight with a finesse bite attack. It's shaping up to be a very effective character.Thinking about it, unarmed Laughing Shadow Magus have an advantage of being able to hold a staff in one hand that other weapons in that hybrid study can't.
You don't even really need Arcane Fist as a lot of ancestries also gives access to d6 finesse unarmed (like Catfolk claws) or even d8 STR ones (Gnoll bite).
Today we tested the new classes a little, they were excited with the book and wanted to try the new options. Lvl 8, 3 battles in the same day, moderate, severe, severe.
Party was Air Druid, Envy Runelord Wizard, Demon Summoner and a Gnoll Laughing Shadow Magus.
The Magus used a Transmutation staff for the Jump spell, he usually tried to do Jump + Cascade + Strike first turn, then Spellstrike + Force Fang second turn if adjacent.
It did fine, he did miss two slotted spellstrikes though, the first one and another in the second battle.
The use of slots was 1 in the first battle, 2 on the second and the last + studious true strike at the 3rd battle. Made 7 spellstrikes total on those 3 battles.
The player didn't like the Magus feat very much and said that would go into an archetype with it.
Summoner player had fun, but ran out of slots at the second battle, picked Eidolons Wrath, but the area is too big so it was not used or would have hit allies, the demon vision of sin was very useful in the last battle though as the boss had AoO and it made it lose the reaction with the ability.
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We are almost there...
1 more day. ;)
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We're leavin' together
But still it's farewell
And maybe we'll come back
To Earth, who can tell?
I guess there is no one to blame
We're leaving ground (leaving ground)
Will things ever be the same again?
It's the final countdown.
The final countdown
OhWe're headin' for Venus (Venus)
And still we stand tall
'Cause maybe they've seen us
And welcome us all, yeah
With so many light years to go
And things to be found (to be found)
I'm sure that we all miss her so
It's the final countdown.
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Oh good point.
Well, that solves that dilemma. Definitely staying up till midnight now…
I was doing so for non-Paizo reasons, so this tipped the balance.
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Any stand out feats for Magus? Besides the ones previously mentioned?A lot of magus feats are pretty standard stuff. Nothing I'd call standout but some I noted:
Arcane fists at 1st.
Magi don't get a level 1 feat. If you want to punch play some human derivative.
There are actually other options, but they aren't great imo. Your basically required to either take an Ancestry that starts with an unarmed attack that is capable of dealing lethal damage, or you have to be some form of Human with the Natural Ambition Feat and then take Arcane Fist. So any other Ancestry seems destined to spend a level where half their Spellstrike damage is both nonlethal (unless they take a penalty to their attack) and (likely) have weak damage output. Don't get me wrong, I am appreciative of even having the option to begin with, but this isn't really ideal if you ask me.
Given their frontline capabilities, I would have much preferred if each Hybrid Study gained a free 1st Level Feat as part of the class feature, and then included a unarmed Hybrid Study that gets Arcane Fist as part of its build. This should allow any Ancestry to equally be viable for this concept. Bards, Clerics, and Druids all get a free 1st Level Feat as part of their Muse, Doctrine, and Order features; affectively voiding the lack of the 1st Level Class Feat that Martials get. Even the Wizard has the option to gain a Feat at 1st level depending on their Arcane Thesis selection. I don't think this would be too overpowered, if the Feat in question was specifically tailored to the theme of the Hybrid Study.
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Any stand out feats for Magus? Besides the ones previously mentioned?A lot of magus feats are pretty standard stuff. Nothing I'd call standout but some I noted:
Arcane fists at 1st.
Magi don't get a level 1 feat. If you want to punch play some human derivative.There are actually other options, but they aren't great imo. Your basically required to either take an Ancestry that starts with an unarmed attack that is capable of dealing lethal damage, or you have to be some form of Human with the Natural Ambition Feat and then take Arcane Fist. So any other Ancestry seems destined to spend a level where half their Spellstrike damage is both nonlethal (unless they take a penalty to their attack) and (likely) have weak damage output. Don't get me wrong, I am appreciative of even having the option to begin with, but this isn't really ideal if you ask me.
Given their frontline capabilities, I would have much preferred if each Hybrid Study gained a free 1st Level Feat as part of the class feature, and then included a unarmed Hybrid Study that gets Arcane Fist as part of its build. This should allow any Ancestry to equally be viable for this concept. Bards, Clerics, and Druids all get a free 1st Level Feat as part of their Muse, Doctrine, and Order features; affectively voiding the lack of the 1st Level Class Feat that Martials get. Even the Wizard has the option to gain a Feat at 1st level depending on their Arcane Thesis selection. I don't think this would be too overpowered, if the Feat in question was specifically tailored to the theme of the Hybrid Study.
I guess the problem is that such feats would become available to any Class as soon as 4th level with MC Dedication.
This shrinks the design possibilities tremendously IMO.
Any stand out feats for Magus? Besides the ones previously mentioned?A lot of magus feats are pretty standard stuff. Nothing I'd call standout but some I noted:
Arcane fists at 1st.
Magi don't get a level 1 feat. If you want to punch play some human derivative.There are actually other options, but they aren't great imo. Your basically required to either take an Ancestry that starts with an unarmed attack that is capable of dealing lethal damage, or you have to be some form of Human with the Natural Ambition Feat and then take Arcane Fist. So any other Ancestry seems destined to spend a level where half their Spellstrike damage is both nonlethal (unless they take a penalty to their attack) and (likely) have weak damage output. Don't get me wrong, I am appreciative of even having the option to begin with, but this isn't really ideal if you ask me.
Given their frontline capabilities, I would have much preferred if each Hybrid Study gained a free 1st Level Feat as part of the class feature, and then included a unarmed Hybrid Study that gets Arcane Fist as part of its build. This should allow any Ancestry to equally be viable for this concept. Bards, Clerics, and Druids all get a free 1st Level Feat as part of their Muse, Doctrine, and Order features; affectively voiding the lack of the 1st Level Class Feat that Martials get. Even the Wizard has the option to gain a Feat at 1st level depending on their Arcane Thesis selection. I don't think this would be too overpowered, if the Feat in question was specifically tailored to the theme of the Hybrid Study.
I guess the problem is that such feats would become available to any Class as soon as 4th level with MC Dedication.
This shrinks the design possibilities tremendously IMO.
Magus MC Dedication doesn't give you access to Hybrid Study, or even Spellstrike for that matter. Only gives you Arcane Spells, plus a few other small things. Even the 4th level Feat that dips into Hybrid Study only gives you the Conflux Spell and nothing else. So it isn't really an issue.
EDIT: Plus, I feel like it opens the design space more, if only for the Magus. Example, I'd like to see a Hybrid Study down the line that maybe focuses on defense in some way and grants the Armor Proficiency Feat as a bonus. This would grant them proficiency to Heavy Armor, since they already get Light and Medium. Reasons for wanting this is because I had an Armored Battlemage in 1e I'd like to rebuild. Idk what the other specifics of this Hybrid Study would be exactly, other than maybe having their Arcane Cascade granting an AC bonus.
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I think how big of an issue that is is being overstated a little bit.
Like, yeah you want the feat, but there are only a few enemies you'd encounter at level 1 where the attack being nonlethal matters. Going from 1d4 to 1d6 is one damage. That matters, especially at low levels... but it's still one damage.
Is there anything wrong with, or stopping, a Magus from using a burst spell the regular way without spellstrike? Like a ranged fireball? Or a regular cone of cold?
From what they spoiled there's only single target options and a feat that gives you access to other spells. I wonder if the save becomes tied to how the strike goes.
Is there anything wrong with, or stopping, a Magus from using a burst spell the regular way without spellstrike? Like a ranged fireball? Or a regular cone of cold?
No. Magi can cast spells regularly just fine. You only need the feat to combine an AoE or saving throw spell with a weapon attack.
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Magi can still use the Cast a Spell activity like other Casters can. They just have the added ability of infusing that spell into a melee strike via the Spellstrike feature. Off the top of my head, they can get the ability use spells that don't target single enemies, such as those with burst, cones, etc. But, in doing so through Spellstrike, the energy of the spell is directed into that singular target, instead of bursting from it I believe. I'd have to go back and check to properly verify.
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Oh good point.
Well, that solves that dilemma. Definitely staying up till midnight now…
I was doing so for non-Paizo reasons, so this tipped the balance.
DA ME DA ME DA ME DOWNLOAD FASTER DA ME
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IT'S FINALLY UP ON NETHYS!
Awesome. Thank you. Now we can take a look.
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If I have one gripe with the book, it's the page border. It's just way too turbulent for my taste.
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I am very disappointed that Infectious Melody wasn’t called “Earworm” or “Once More with Feeling”. It’ll require some cooperation from the players, but I think demaning IC talk be to the tune of “I am the very model of a modern major general” for the victims is perfectly reasonable.
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Woohoo, got it! So cool ! The little lore/story tidbits spruced here and there are very fun.
oh hey, what y'all up to this morning
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If I have one gripe with the book, it's the page border. It's just way too turbulent for my taste.
I will fight you
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If I have one gripe with the book, it's the page border. It's just way too turbulent for my taste.I will fight you
Different strokes for different folks, I guess
oh hey, what y'all up to this morning
Slogging through PF2 monster conversions while coding.
What about you?
If I have one gripe with the book, it's the page border. It's just way too turbulent for my taste.
Yeah it's kind of overwhelming for me. (Possibly OCD related.)