Secrets of magic hype


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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For anyone looking to make a custom staff, I've sorted spells by their traits. I'll add the SoM spells as soon as I get my pdf.

Spells Sorted by Traits

The spells for specific staves are available for comparison here.

Staff Spell Traditions

Edit: I had the links backwards. They're fixed now.


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Deriven Firelion wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

There's a weapon rune that grants your melee weapon a reach of 60 feet! It also has greater version that grants a reach 120 feet.

Hilarious!

If that is easy to get, doubt the archer will be played too much. Why take half strength damage if you can use melee at range.

It's a lvl 9 rune and it's a specific activity that takes 2 actions, so compete with Elemental runes that increase damage and can't combine with stuff like spellstrike, power attack and Knockdown.

Alfa/Polaris wrote:
gesalt wrote:
Temperans wrote:
Any stand out feats for Magus? Besides the ones previously mentioned?

Arcane fists at 1st.

Magi don't get a level 1 feat. If you want to punch play some human derivative.
Alternatively, you could just live with slightly lower damage and the nonlethal trait for a level. :v

Or use an ancestry with unarmed attacks, like Gnoll bites, Catfolk Claws and so on.

The only thing that Arcane fists do basically is increase the damage from d4 to d6 and critical specialization at lvl 5 for fists.


Pathfinder LO Special Edition, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
The Raven Black wrote:

Want to grab a fight buddy with a dedication, go for AC. AC not enough for you, go full Summoner.

Summoner dedication feels like it is in the right place between the Summoner class and the AC-providing dedications, so that it does not make either of these unattractive.

AC ≠ Armor Class?


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Ed Reppert wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:

Want to grab a fight buddy with a dedication, go for AC. AC not enough for you, go full Summoner.

Summoner dedication feels like it is in the right place between the Summoner class and the AC-providing dedications, so that it does not make either of these unattractive.

AC ≠ Armor Class?

Animal companion I think.


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Pathfinder LO Special Edition, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Thanks, that's probably it.


TheGentlemanDM wrote:
Because it takes two actions to make a single strike at 60 feet.

Good. A balancing factor.


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Kyrone wrote:
The only thing that Arcane fists do basically is increase the damage from d4 to d6 and critical specialization at lvl 5 for fists.

It's actually critical specialization for all unarmed attacks in the brawling group and weapons in the brawling group. So a little extra bang-for-your-buck.


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TheGentlemanDM wrote:
Because it takes two actions to make a single strike at 60 feet.

Now the barbarian really can cast greataxe ... or would that be Ray of Greataxe?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It seems that Anthony Barnett left us a little token on page 250. XD

Liberty's Edge

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Ravingdork wrote:

There's a weapon rune that grants your melee weapon a reach of 60 feet! It also has greater version that grants a reach 120 feet.

Hilarious!

Can you put it on Handwraps of Mighty Blows ?

Just asking for an Animal Barbarian friend ;-)


2 people marked this as a favorite.
The Raven Black wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

There's a weapon rune that grants your melee weapon a reach of 60 feet! It also has greater version that grants a reach 120 feet.

Hilarious!

Can you put it on Handwraps of Mighty Blows ?

Just asking for an Animal Barbarian friend ;-)

I mean... teeeeeeeeechnically? The only thing Usage says is "on a melee weapon." And HoMB are to be treated as a melee weapon in terms of requirements for property runes.

So... sure? Extend those bones??? Go wild??????


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Gomu gomu no...


3 people marked this as a favorite.
The Raven Black wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

There's a weapon rune that grants your melee weapon a reach of 60 feet! It also has greater version that grants a reach 120 feet.

Hilarious!

Can you put it on Handwraps of Mighty Blows ?

Just asking for an Animal Barbarian friend ;-)

Dhalsim.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Deriven Firelion wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

There's a weapon rune that grants your melee weapon a reach of 60 feet! It also has greater version that grants a reach 120 feet.

Hilarious!

Can you put it on Handwraps of Mighty Blows ?

Just asking for an Animal Barbarian friend ;-)

Dhalsim.

With the human Dragon Spit level 1 feat.

"Yoga fire !" *spits a produce flame*


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Book just gets better and better.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:
Book just gets better and better.

It really does. There's so much cool stuff in here.

I think just about the only thing that's been a letdown (personally) has been the Soulforger, but almost everything else is just so cool.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Squiggit wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Book just gets better and better.

It really does. There's so much cool stuff in here.

I think just about the only thing that's been a letdown (personally) has been the Soulforger, but almost everything else is just so cool.

I miss the Climbing Evolution feat that doesn't appear to have made the cut.

The fact that, that is my only let down says a lot about the tremendous quality of this book's content.


Can't wait to end up at a table using some of those alternative magics in their custom campaigns.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Squiggit wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Book just gets better and better.

It really does. There's so much cool stuff in here.

I think just about the only thing that's been a letdown (personally) has been the Soulforger, but almost everything else is just so cool.

Why is that?


Verzen wrote:
Squiggit wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Book just gets better and better.

It really does. There's so much cool stuff in here.

I think just about the only thing that's been a letdown (personally) has been the Soulforger, but almost everything else is just so cool.

Why is that?

I haven't really seen anything about that one, so I'm curious as well.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Verzen wrote:
Squiggit wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Book just gets better and better.

It really does. There's so much cool stuff in here.

I think just about the only thing that's been a letdown (personally) has been the Soulforger, but almost everything else is just so cool.

Why is that?

Probably just my own expectations. IMO it doesn't feel very meaty at all.

You get a special ability for one minute once a day. Some of those abilities are pretty cool, I genuinely like them. There's another feat to let you draw your weapon for free when you roll initiative and another that lets you spend a reaction to give +1 to attack or AC (with a 20% chance to have your weapon or armor unsummon itself) and a final feat that lets you get another item.

That's the whole archetype though. There are no special attacks or abilities you can use with your weapon or armor, no unique interactions or features beyond the one power and you never get more than one use per day.

The rest of the day you just have a completely normal weapon except it comes with an anathema that gives you penalties if you violate it.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Squiggit wrote:
Verzen wrote:
Squiggit wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Book just gets better and better.

It really does. There's so much cool stuff in here.

I think just about the only thing that's been a letdown (personally) has been the Soulforger, but almost everything else is just so cool.

Why is that?

Probably just my own expectations. IMO it doesn't feel very meaty at all.

You get a special ability for one minute once a day. Some of those abilities are pretty cool, I genuinely like them. There's another feat to let you draw your weapon for free when you roll initiative and another that lets you spend a reaction to give +1 to attack or AC (with a 20% chance to have your weapon or armor unsummon itself) and a final feat that lets you get another item.

That's the whole archetype though. There are no special attacks or abilities you can use with your weapon or armor, no unique interactions or features beyond the one power and you never get more than one use per day.

The rest of the day you just have a completely normal weapon except it comes with an anathema that gives you penalties if you violate it.

I thought there was an option to turn a melee weapon into ranged?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

One of the powers gives a melee weapon the thrown (30ft) trait and the effects of a returning rune.

Being able to throw a greatsword (provided you have the dex) is pretty damn cool.


I'm in agreement there. Here's hoping it's a popular archetype and encourages more feats to be printed in the future.

Liberty's Edge

Have we ever had any new feats for an existing archetype ?

I would be extremely surprised as I think archetypes are designed to be self-contained.


I know for soulforger I was hoping for something that scaled as you leveled, could be remade if destroyed, etc. But it gets upgraded as normal, and if it gets destroyed you have to rebuild it as if making a new weapon. It's just a small buff with anathema attached and the ability to make a weapon appear and disappear


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The Raven Black wrote:

Have we ever had any new feats for an existing archetype ?

I would be extremely surprised as I think archetypes are designed to be self-contained.

Hellknight Armiger was expanded in the Character Guide.

Pathfinder Agent, Scrollmaster, Spellmaster, and Swordmaster got some Pathfinder Society Guide feats.

Magaambyan Attendant, Lastwall Sentry, and Red Mantis Assassin got expanded in Legends.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Summoner has a feat that works like Lingering Performance for Boost/Reinforce, which is pretty neat.

Although it runs off their tradition skill, which means they have more difficulty making the checks than a bard does, which feels like an odd choice to me but eh.

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Squiggit wrote:

Summoner has a feat that works like Lingering Performance for Boost/Reinforce, which is pretty neat.

Although it runs off their tradition skill, which means they have more difficulty making the checks than a bard does, which feels like an odd choice to me but eh.

I thought the same thing. In fact, none of the tradition options are CHA based, so at best you have a starting stat of 16 for the ability score the check goes from and often it won't be that high either. Really wish this would have been based on a CHA based skill like Diplomacy (saying "please" makes all the difference).


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It makes sense to me. You're using your magic to cause your boost to linger; none of the charisma based skills would fit that mold unless you're also dancing like a bard, or lying to/threatening/pleading with your eidolon, which is odder than using your magic tradition's skill IMO.

It's not ideal, but I think it makes perfect sense.

I suppose you could always ask the GM nicely if you can use charisma for the ability score modifier since it is an exercise of your innate magic.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I mean the logic behind it works (although since we're talking about a power made up out of whole cloth, we could invent whatever logic we wanted for it).

It just strikes me as odd that they apparently looked at Lingering Composition and decided the Summoner equivalent (the abilities are pretty much identical) should be rolled at -1 to -4 compared to what the Bard is rolling.

Granted it's a free action that refunds the focus point if you fail so it's not the end of the world, just remarking that it seems a little odd.


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Squiggit wrote:
Granted it's a free action that refunds the focus point if you fail so it's not the end of the world, just remarking that it seems a little odd.

Man, I never even considered applying a lingering performance type effect to another class.

Hearing that kinda makes me wish Cackle would work this way. Free action, roll a check while casting any sustain spell. Success makes to spell run on it's own for 3 round, failure refunds the focus point.

Make it their free level 1 focus power (instead of the near useless Phase Familiar) and unavialable via Multiclassing and BAM! - the witch would finally have a spellcasting niche of her own.


Blave wrote:
Squiggit wrote:
Granted it's a free action that refunds the focus point if you fail so it's not the end of the world, just remarking that it seems a little odd.

Man, I never even considered applying a lingering performance type effect to another class.

Hearing that kinda makes me wish Cackle would work this way. Free action, roll a check while casting any sustain spell. Success makes to spell run on it's own for 3 round, failure refunds the focus point.

Make it their free level 1 focus power (instead of the near useless Phase Familiar) and unavialable via Multiclassing and BAM! - the witch would finally have a spellcasting niche of her own.

That would be great ( since it applies to all spells, maybe 2 rounds on a success and 3 on a critical one ).

Though it has to be available through dedication, as lingering composition.

It would be the only way to sustain for free a spell since lvl 16 when you get effortless concentration.

The witch would have it for free even by lvl 1, any other class will have to pay for it:

- 14 int
- Witch dedication
- Cackle
- Being tied to witch dedication unless another witch feat is taken.

I think it's more than enough.


It haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere, but anger Cathartic magic seems like a magic barbarian rage, which is neat.

The Exchange

So the pdf is no longer available tomorrow but has been pushed out to Sep 1?


Laran wrote:
So the pdf is no longer available tomorrow but has been pushed out to Sep 1?

Correct. It was announced in a few places beforehand but for some reason wasn't updated on the store page until today I think.

The Exchange

Perpdepog wrote:
Laran wrote:
So the pdf is no longer available tomorrow but has been pushed out to Sep 1?
Correct. It was announced in a few places beforehand but for some reason wasn't updated on the store page until today I think.

Ah, thank you. I will assume that it will keep being pushed back until all the subscribers have downloaded their copies. I will check back in a couple of weeks


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I believe that this is the actual, for-real, for-sure release date now, because subscribers are starting to have their books shipped, but I'm not a subscriber, so don't quote me on that.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

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Yeah, the release date should be locked in now.

Liberty's Edge

HumbleGamer wrote:
Blave wrote:
Squiggit wrote:
Granted it's a free action that refunds the focus point if you fail so it's not the end of the world, just remarking that it seems a little odd.

Man, I never even considered applying a lingering performance type effect to another class.

Hearing that kinda makes me wish Cackle would work this way. Free action, roll a check while casting any sustain spell. Success makes to spell run on it's own for 3 round, failure refunds the focus point.

Make it their free level 1 focus power (instead of the near useless Phase Familiar) and unavialable via Multiclassing and BAM! - the witch would finally have a spellcasting niche of her own.

That would be great ( since it applies to all spells, maybe 2 rounds on a success and 3 on a critical one ).

Though it has to be available through dedication, as lingering composition.

It would be the only way to sustain for free a spell since lvl 16 when you get effortless concentration.

The witch would have it for free even by lvl 1, any other class will have to pay for it:

- 14 int
- Witch dedication
- Cackle
- Being tied to witch dedication unless another witch feat is taken.

I think it's more than enough.

Having to sustain some spells is part of their balance. I am a bit wary of getting rid of it that easily, double so as I am pretty sure devs considered this in their design possibilities.

Maybe Witch could get their needed boost here, but I really think it should not be widely available through a dedication.

The bard can use it only for very specific spells and only one at a time. And they are already considered the strongest class. Anything that would be strictly better than what they have feels too good IMO.


The Raven Black wrote:
HumbleGamer wrote:
Blave wrote:
Squiggit wrote:
Granted it's a free action that refunds the focus point if you fail so it's not the end of the world, just remarking that it seems a little odd.

Man, I never even considered applying a lingering performance type effect to another class.

Hearing that kinda makes me wish Cackle would work this way. Free action, roll a check while casting any sustain spell. Success makes to spell run on it's own for 3 round, failure refunds the focus point.

Make it their free level 1 focus power (instead of the near useless Phase Familiar) and unavialable via Multiclassing and BAM! - the witch would finally have a spellcasting niche of her own.

That would be great ( since it applies to all spells, maybe 2 rounds on a success and 3 on a critical one ).

Though it has to be available through dedication, as lingering composition.

It would be the only way to sustain for free a spell since lvl 16 when you get effortless concentration.

The witch would have it for free even by lvl 1, any other class will have to pay for it:

- 14 int
- Witch dedication
- Cackle
- Being tied to witch dedication unless another witch feat is taken.

I think it's more than enough.

Having to sustain some spells is part of their balance. I am a bit wary of getting rid of it that easily, double so as I am pretty sure devs considered this in their design possibilities.

Maybe Witch could get their needed boost here, but I really think it should not be widely available through a dedication.

The bard can use it only for very specific spells and only one at a time. And they are already considered the strongest class. Anything that would be strictly better than what they have feels too good IMO.

Well, if we entirely talk about balance:

-Cackle works on anything, but lasts 1 round.

-Lingering compositions and the Summoner ones only work respectively on compositions and on boost/reinforce eidolon, and also require a check. They can last up to 4 rounds.

-All of this stuff is, obviously, available to all classes through dedication feats.

Seems already pretty balanced to me ( that's why I suggested for cackle to "eventually" last 2 rounds instead ).


About eidolons/Summoners,

would be possible to target either summoner and eidolon with either regeneration and life boost, for example?

At the beginning of the turn each of them would recover hp from either fast healing and regeneration, and since they are different targets, they'd be recovering it 2 times.

Beginning of the round:
- Eidolon gains X hp from fast healing and X from regen
- Summoner gains X hp from fast healing and X from regen

Spell and anction consuming, but apart from that would it be possible or not?

Silver Crusade

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HumbleGamer wrote:

About eidolons/Summoners,

would be possible to target either summoner and eidolon with either regeneration and life boost, for example?

At the beginning of the turn each of them would recover hp from either fast healing and regeneration, and since they are different targets, they'd be recovering it 2 times.

Beginning of the round:
- Eidolon gains X hp from fast healing and X from regen
- Summoner gains X hp from fast healing and X from regen

Spell and anction consuming, but apart from that would it be possible or not?

If you used two separate spells (one on the Eidolon, one on the summoner) then I think this should work. Its really no different from using 1 two action heal on the summoner and a different two action heal on the Eidolon.

If you used one spell with multiple targets then I think that this would NOT work.


I'm excited to make an angel summoner with 3-5 champion feats and 5 sorc feats for more divine spellcasting. Idk what level strike together is but I wanna fit that in there too. Probably human aasimar for natural ambition. All dedication stuff with almost no room for cool summoner stuff but my lord it seems really cool on paper. Selfishly cast heroism on myself and jump into the fray with my angel buddy. Fingers crossed wrath of the righteous gets a 2e conversion years down the road, lol.


WWHsmackdown wrote:
I'm excited to make an angel summoner with 3-5 champion feats and 5 sorc feats for more divine spellcasting. Idk what level strike together is but I wanna fit that in there too. Probably human aasimar for natural ambition. All dedication stuff with almost no room for cool summoner stuff but my lord it seems really cool on paper. Selfishly cast heroism on myself and jump into the fray with my angel buddy. Fingers crossed wrath of the righteous gets a 2e conversion years down the road, lol.

It's level 6.


Perpdepog wrote:
WWHsmackdown wrote:
I'm excited to make an angel summoner with 3-5 champion feats and 5 sorc feats for more divine spellcasting. Idk what level strike together is but I wanna fit that in there too. Probably human aasimar for natural ambition. All dedication stuff with almost no room for cool summoner stuff but my lord it seems really cool on paper. Selfishly cast heroism on myself and jump into the fray with my angel buddy. Fingers crossed wrath of the righteous gets a 2e conversion years down the road, lol.
It's level 6.

That makes it a bit harder maybe I'll forgo sorcerer. Can the angel get any casting?


WWHsmackdown wrote:
Perpdepog wrote:
WWHsmackdown wrote:
I'm excited to make an angel summoner with 3-5 champion feats and 5 sorc feats for more divine spellcasting. Idk what level strike together is but I wanna fit that in there too. Probably human aasimar for natural ambition. All dedication stuff with almost no room for cool summoner stuff but my lord it seems really cool on paper. Selfishly cast heroism on myself and jump into the fray with my angel buddy. Fingers crossed wrath of the righteous gets a 2e conversion years down the road, lol.
It's level 6.
That makes it a bit harder maybe I'll forgo sorcerer. Can the angel get any casting?

Lvl 17 feature is a single lvl 17 remove "x".

Then have a lvl 2 feat for 2 innate cantrips.

A lvl 8 one for a single lvl1 and lvl 2 spell.

Then a 18 one for spells from lvl 1 to 7.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I have a similar character I built for a one-shot, albeit with a demon instead of an angel eidolon.

Word of warning, Tandem Strike is a terrible feat that usually ends up with you doing less damage than if you'd had your eidolon just attack twice (which doesn't cost any feats at all). Helps a little if you have a greatsword, though. I think Paizo forgot the proficiency grade Summoners were on when they built the feat.

Still a fun build though.


It works kinda like Double Slice without an agile weapon when the summoner use it (as the summoner is one proficiency down), but instead of dual wielding need the eidolon and summoner in range. Decent enough.


If an eidolon takes an alchemical mutagen, elixir or drug,will the benefits affect the summoner?
What about the drawbacks?

I'm imagining an eidolon that is the manifestation of heavy drug use on the part of the Summoner, and also partakes of drugs with said summoner.

Basically sharing absinth with the little green fairy that stated showing up when you started drinking absinth...

Only its blood sap or drake heart instead.

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