Gnoll Warden

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It sounds like Ranger has most of what I want.
It would lose out on casting, which wasn't on my original wish list.

I've never played a Ranger in any edition, so I'll read up on it.

I forgot about retraining, but I would rather have a riding dog than an immature animal companion.
Regular animals are fragile, but also cheap.

I'm want use this part of Cavalier Dedication to get a rideable animal early "if the animal usually starts as Small, you can begin with a Medium version of that animal (changing no statistics other than its size)"

I want to use this part of Rough Rider to make the animal something other than a creature with the Mount trait"You can always select a wolf as your animal companion, even if you would usually select an animal companion with the mount special ability, such as for a champion's steed ally."

I considered Summoner dedication as a way to add more wolves to a goblin wolf rider, but the shared actions seem counter productive.

I want to build a goblin wolfrider.
Rides with wolves.
Shoots bows.
Does the outdoor thing.

I would like to start with a reskined riding dog.
Would this be acceptable, given the in universe lore?

The earliest way to a rideable canine companion seems to be second level,with Rough Rider and Cavalier.

Assuming this takes care of wolf riding,I'm inclined to go druid from the outdoor skills and allowing me to talk to my wolf.
Unfortunately druids don't seem to be trained in using bows.

I could ditch the bow use in favor of a spear, princess mononoke style, or choose another base class.
Bard actually seems like it makes sense.
I'd lose the ability to talk to my wolf, but be able to boost my "pack".

I'm a 5e refugee who prefers support casters, so I'm looking for that kind of feel.

Advice on a class choice is welcome.
Ways to add bow to druid or animal speech to Bard are welcome.

Thank you.
I searched out the topic and found lots of arguments but no conclusion.
I did see people refer to a faq and at first I thought I must have overlooked it...

Weird hiw they deal with/fail to deal with these questions, especially since they have organized play.
Home games can lean on table rulings, but that doesn't work well in a league.
I imagine the players studiously avoid builds/actions that involve unanswered questions.

Putting it on a staff sounds good.
I'll go check out those rules.

Any of these creatures might potentially have a skill that could benefit from mundane equipment.
They might be commanded to perform an unskilled task that includes the use of equipment.
They might be more useful holding a tower sheild than they would be attacking.

There are specific rules that say they can't use equipment unless it has the proper trait, but a literal reading of them results in creatures with arms and hands that cannot pick up a bucket.
That would be stupid,but it might be case.

Is there a consensus on this?

Thanks for the clarifications!
This seems like a good spell to have on a wand or scroll.

How does this work: "You gain a +5-foot status bonus to your Speed until the end of your turn. You then Stride twice."
Emphasis mine.
The double Stride happens as part of the actions of casting the spell?

How do Monk and Edilon compare defensively?

I've read that Monk has some of the best AC in the game, are Edilon comparable?

So, this seems like something a summoner might pull off.
3d maneuvering gear and dual weilding, would be nice but extra.

Anyone have a build to share?

Without Daze how do you collect rats for Deathknell?

Lumberjack,fantastic as always RD!

You mention archetyping into Summoner as being strong, and list some good uses.
My concern is it never gets past trained in attack or defense.
Is there a way around that?

You also mention construct preferentially, for a ranged attacks and reaction.
What about construct makes it attractive?

A rogue with summoner dedication could use it for misdirection,as well as a flanking buddy.
Imagine your edilon, who looks just like you, surrendering while you stay hidden.
After the bad guys spill their guts monologing,poof, your gone.
You also have all the skills, of course.

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Playing a strait class anything is kind of boring to me, I love me some archetypes.

I keep looking for good synergies from adding Summoner dedication zo ozhrr classes, butIm having a hard time seeing it.

The spells that make help make an Edilon viable are not available through the Archetype.
I think an Alchemist's creations could make up for this, but the edilon also misses out on advancing in AC and weapons.

So start as a summoner and add on?

Is a edilon viable without spending feats on it?

I was hoping to use Alchemist dedication to move some of Bruce's power over to the Hulk side.
They slapped an item bonus on the AC, which negates that some.

I was looking at edilons from a Merge With Edilon point of view.
Plant is primo,strait forward upgrades as far as I can tell.

The Fade Away feat makes Phantoms attractive.
Being Merged removes the downside of being within 15 feet.

Mostly I would chose Plant for the skills.

Crazy idea, but what if you just added actions?
Same critter, more actions.

I was reading a summoner thread that bemoaned the lack of slots, among other things.
Are there any Archetypes, Feats or other things that add the greatest number of slots?

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All kinds of feats that grant forms, but no Climbing Form.
I guess Skilled Partner will cover it by level 7, but if that is adequate,why have Amphibious Form, which also can be covered by skill feats?

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Is there any other way to use Ostentatious Arrival without damage summoner?

Perpdepog wrote:
You couldn't use it for your eidolon in either case. It's missing the Eidolon trait.

Does that matter?

This isnt a magical item.

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I find myself wanting to do a riff on Hidalgo,maybe a Summoner with Gunslinger dedication, but construct pets, beast guns and a wild west vibe make me think of Slugterra of all things!

I like the idea a bard could wield a pistol instead of a shortbow, thats about the level of effectiveness I would expect for a character not specilized in guns.
Otoh, a bard with a lasso sounds very Will Rodgers...

I suggested a breastplate because the bonus exceeds the Trained bonus at first level.
Of course the Dex cap is only 1.
I don't know what Dex bonus to AC typical edilon have.

Either way it sounds like shield's or at least bucklers should be basic gear for most edilons.

Having your edilon carry and raise a tower shield seems like a pretty awesome way to get portable cover.

Only two functional hands so you could still have a Hecatoncheires for example...

A Shoggoth type could have limbs with stingers, claws, or mouths even, and still wield a shield in one or both of the psudopods that count as functions hands.

I suppose you could have a ball of light or a biblically accurate cherub, but depict their limbs as close range telekinesis.

Any character can make a unarmed attack,however feebly, and even use weapons they have no training in.
Edilon get special unarmed attacks, but are there other options like a cantrip, or one stronger attack instead of two smaller ones?

Can it look exactly like the summoner?
Since you can't hid your shared mark, you might as well confuse things even further.
Maybe play a Fey, with an identical Fey edilon, then summon more Fey?
Add illusory monster for another distraction?

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MaxAstro wrote:

Found another typo in Meld Into Eidolon (highlighted below):

Your physical form can combine with that of your eidolon, granting benefits but limiting your capabilities. You Manifest your Eidolon, but instead of summoning it into an adjacent open space, you become it.
...No seriously what actual benefits does this feat grant? You lose one action per turn and the ability to cast spells, and in exchange you gain...?

Half the number of targets, plus whatever movement speed or vision the edilon has?

I love your bee familiar!
I was thinking of a mud dauber or mason bee for this, burrowing creatures so a Gnome could have them them with an ancestry feat.
Also thought either of the dragon familiars would make a decent bee, with a puff of pollen as the breath weapon.

What all can an edilon do?

Cann edilon Raise A Shield?
Can it wear a breastplate?

Can it be smaller than medium?
What sizes can it be?

Can it have 13 arms/hands?

Can it wear cloths?

Can it eat?
Does it need to eat?
How much?
Can it digest?
Can it vomit?
How much can it swallow?

Does it need to breath?
Can it sleep?

Can it be healed via mundane means?
Can I perform surgery on it?
Body modifications?
Could it be a rug?
How about a cape?

Can it be Disguised?
Can it be tattooed?

Ok, plenty from me.
Mostly I want to know if it can use weapons, armor, shields, other equipment, and if so, do they go with them when they go poof?

I would like to try a summoner/edilon. and I'm curious how mutagens would work between them.

Normally, you can't take juggernaut to offset the penalties from quicksilver, because they are both polymorph items.
What happens if a summoner drinks the juggernaut and the edilon drinks the quicksilver?
I know they share hit points,but not bodies, so I would imagine they could come out ahead on hit points.
I guess they might come out ahead on the speed boost.
Initiative is shared,so a net loss there.
What I'm not clear about is the other drawbacks, the bonuses and penalties to saves.
Would they be shared between the two bodies?
Unless they effect movement, or actions per turn, I'm thinking they would not.

This combo would be expensive in terms of actions and resources.

Dosing the edilon with Drakeheart mutagen would help it tank,especially if the summoner then takes Juggernaut.

Bestial could work, but I don't know how we could counter the negative to AC.

I would be curious to know what yall think.

Cordell Kintner wrote:

As long as they have the poison and alchemical trait then yes. But why would you want to? Poisons are already dancing that line of moral ambiguity, being a drug dealer is just throwing yourself over that line in the "Evil" direction.

Note: "Drugs" in Pathfinder are almost always bad. Medical drugs do not have the "Drug" trait, and are just standard alchemical items.

While I am not interested in doing drugs IRL, I'm also not going incinerate people with fireballs.

I don't dig dully do right or super man boys scout characters, who still wade through blood and gore.

I prefer tarnished halos or friendly fiends.

I'm working on an idea for a Gnome who provides party favors for himself and his friends.
Elf might be better, but I like the flavor of a Gnome always looking for the next mind blowing experience.
Im thinking a real mushroom munching nature loving type, talking to nature, tending his bees...

Anyway, seems like a full on Alchemist Archetype would be better.
More variety of party favors.
Alchemical Familier is cool as well, though Gnome can get a Familiar already.
I might skip the archetypes that grant infused reagents entirely and craft my treats instead.
That would leave room for a Summoner Archetype.
It grants only the meagerest of Edilons, but I was hoping to leverage that by feeding mutagens and drugs to a body that the player character doesn't have to live in.
Juicing up an Animal Companion would probably be more effective, but that seems worse to me.
Edilons and familiers are both summoned critters, not real animals.

Even if the effects cross over from the edilon to the summoner, that could still work out, granting double the effect for a single dose.

I keep talking about using alchemical items, but I don't really want to play the class.
It just seems behind the curve right out of the gate.
I think starting as a bard and nerfing it by investing all my feats into alchemy or summoning, I might still be more capable than playing strait alchemist.
We shall see.
It might be worthwhile to play an alchemist if I can pass the drawbacks onto my pet monster/imaginary friend/ nightmare companion.

How about a reverse Suicide Squad?
Next time a TPK is possible "rescue" them, but have them wake up Invigled, in the thrall of a BBEG.

Let them work off their life debt, but leave space for escape of course.

An old saw is to make them the focus of a summoning spell.
They might be, fighting,partying or sleeping, and poof, transported to another plane to do battle on behalf of some mage.
If they die or the spell expires, the find themselves back on their own plane, but time has passed.
Or it hasn't, either way, the real threat is that mage sharing this spell with others, which could lead to an eternity of fighting for someone else.

Bonus points if one or more of the summoned players are themselves summoners and the fey,elementals, etc have turned the tables

If an eidolon takes an alchemical mutagen, elixir or drug,will the benefits affect the summoner?
What about the drawbacks?

I'm imagining an eidolon that is the manifestation of heavy drug use on the part of the Summoner, and also partakes of drugs with said summoner.

Basically sharing absinth with the little green fairy that stated showing up when you started drinking absinth...

Only its blood sap or drake heart instead.

I think I asked this before, but I couldn't find anything with the search function.

How does this system deal with PCs getting overly powerful magic items?

What can yall tell me about the backgrounds?
In particular how are the Rare Backgrounds awarded?
Magical Experiment seems extremely good.

What do the multiclass archetypes give you?

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So, do Anadi need a formula to Craft a blanket?
I mean a real blanket, not one of the zero value ones that self destruct.
What about webs?
When I think of a web weaving spider at work, restrictions on manipulation of objects seems extra silly.
A human with the Combat Climber feat seems to be a better climber than an Anadi, as does a Halfling with the Sure Feet feat.
A Tailed Goblin is also better at climbing.
None of these Ancestries needed to be good at climbing at first level as much as the sentient giant spider Ancestry did.

Side note, why are they raising fungus?
If spiders are not sucking bodily fluids they should at least be sucking plant juices.

Inveigle seems just as evil as Create Undead.
Subverting anothers will with a spell is nasty.

I play with a bunch of kids.
Literally, my nephew is the oldest and he just had his senior prom.
Because if this, I don't expect good individual tactics, much less good group tactics.
I play support tanks from the back line and try to keep PvP from happening.

You can rebuild to fit these groups, or find a new group and talk tactics at character creation.
I recommend doing both, then eliminating any game that still sucks.

So the rules say one thing, pay your money.
Take your chances.
Immersive role playing says "it depends".
As a player I would my expectations would depend on the table.
In some games the process of getting healed would be part of resource management.
In others, an opportunity to role play.

The highest level summoning spells could give access to a lot of spellcasting, plus skills, offense defense and transportation.
The rituals that let you animate objects or awaken animals and plants appeal to me as well.
Anything that make permanent changes in the world is cool as hell.

Neat find!
I'm interested in the other Troops, especially the constructs.
There is a Spirit Troop as well,are there any rituals to create or bind Spirits.

Goblin wolf riders are a thing, right?
I'm seeing one as a mounted archer...

Goblin Bard with Rough Rider.
At second, take Cavalier.
Rough Rider gives you a Wolf, Cavalier dedication makes it Medium.

If you go Druid,you could get a small Wolf companion at first level,next level take Beastmaster for a second Wolf,then at 4th Mature Beastmaster Companion would make both your wolves Medium.
Extra Companions means you can get a fresh mount/ tank in a single minute, so go ahead and get a third if you want.

Add Train Animal and you could get one more well trained but fragile Wolf.

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There are a couple of undead that can be made with a template, Grave Knight and Ghost Mage.
Obviously being able to make a character to order would be dope as hell, and thus
too good to be true good.

On the Summon Animals list, I notice swarms have resistance.

At least some of the constructs have Construct Armor, which seems really good.

Soulbound dolls summoned with a 4thlevel slot give access to Heroism and Heal.

Scarecrows have a big aura that induces fear.
The DC is rather low by the time you can summon them, but as a separate function it prevents creatures in it from reducing their Frightened status below 1.

I know summing is very nerfed, but I like the idea ofit so I want to see if we can make something of it.
Looking at the Summon Fey list, I spot the Griggle for the fiddling, the Nixie for accessing any 1st level spell, and the Satyr as a pocket bard.

Unicorns have couple of 3rd level Heals for a 4th level spell,Dryads can spam 2cond level Entangles.

Is there anything of note on the other lists?

This made me look at the skilled heritage for the first time.

I'm wondered if there is feat you could take in its stead.
Marshal boosts a Trained Diplomacy or Intimidation to Expert.
Of course the rest of Marshal is redundant at best.

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If standing on a thing makes it attended and makes it drop instantly, that has applications.

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Ravingdork wrote:

While fighting hard to see enemy skirmishers in a field of tall grass, our bard tied a leash on the ranger (an archer), then cast levitate on him so he bobbed upwards above the grass like a balloon. From up there he could not only harry the enemies hiding in the field, he could point out their movements and positions to the rest of the party as well. Meanwhile, the party monk would hold the other end of the line and drag his "balloon turret" wherever it needed to go at high speeds.

It turned a difficult encounter into a massacre.

I love this,it makes sense, but is it supported by the rules?

The culture of this edition especially seems against anything not directly supported by the rules, and allowing this opens up a huge can of worms.

An unseen servant, animal companion, or even a familiar might be able to do this.
If you can be towed, can you pull yourself along?
Can you toss an anchor or throw a harpoon and use to pull yourself?
Could you levitate a tree trunk, then have your while team climb on?

Versatile Performance seems like a a way to replace Intimidate/Deception/Diplomacy, at first.
Once you realize the limitations, it still seems good for scaring people in combat and making friends out of combat, oh, and impersonation.

But Bon Mot doesn't work with Versatile Performance, and it's really really good, so you might really want to boost Diplomacy.
Versatile Performance does work with a lot of the Intimidate feats, but not with Scare To Death, which is also really good

Should a bard just skip Versatile Performance if they plan on using one or both of these feats?

This is interesting because assuming they don't run, they can tank, without you using actions.

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