|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
And as always, can MC into Wizard for more slots.
Have we got confirmation on how MCing and Wave Casting is going to work? I was under the permission that there are going to be special rules to govern this is SoM.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Have we got confirmation on how MCing and Wave Casting is going to work? I was under the permission that there are going to be special rules to govern this is SoM.
And as always, can MC into Wizard for more slots.
Honestly the dedication might just give you cantrips, spell strike for magus, and eidelon for summoner. It not give spell slots. Just a guess though.
Well it was confirmed that staves works on Magus, and being a prepared caster means that you can sacrifice a slot for more charges for utility, also martial caster feat was confirmed to be on the base class now, so technically the class have 6 slots (though 2 limited to specific spells). With Arcane Cascade stance requiring a spell to be cast to activate it you probably want to cast a spell at distance first anyway before going into melee.
And as always, can MC into Wizard for more slots.
oh that's a lot of possible true strikes then.
|
|
Honestly the dedication might just give you cantrips, spell strike for magus, and eidelon for summoner. It not give spell slots. Just a guess though.Have we got confirmation on how MCing and Wave Casting is going to work? I was under the permission that there are going to be special rules to govern this is SoM.
And as always, can MC into Wizard for more slots.
I meant the other way around. As in a Magus MCing into Wizard.
I have a vague memory of someone saying on a Paizo live that SoM was going to have special rules for wavecasters who gained spell slots from other sources, but I can't remember the details. Might be mixing it up with something else though!
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
Honestly the dedication might just give you cantrips, spell strike for magus, and eidelon for summoner. It not give spell slots. Just a guess though.Have we got confirmation on how MCing and Wave Casting is going to work? I was under the permission that there are going to be special rules to govern this is SoM.
And as always, can MC into Wizard for more slots.
I meant the other way around. As in a Magus MCing into Wizard.
I have a vague memory of someone saying on a Paizo live that SoM was going to have special rules for wavecasters who gained spell slots from other sources, but I can't remember the details. Might be mixing it up with something else though!
It was the opposite, the Magus/Summoner dedication don't have the usual Basic/expert/master spellcasting from dedications, but something different to reflect their wave casting.
That would be interesting to see. If they don't, I know in my games Magus players are going to end up with a ton of spell slots from grabbing multiple dedications via Free Archetype.
They don't balance about variant rules though, as they are not the default of the game.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
But I wonder is the other types of magus aren't actually doable in a very broad sense with monk/fighter with spellcaster archetypes.
Caster dedications are really nice in general, but I've found caster archetypes on martials to be fairly unsatisfying for these concepts just because of the slots. A level 4 character who has one singular spell slot just isn't someone who can really call magic a core part of their gameplay.
Caster dedication on a magus might end up being a nice way to make them feel more magically focused, since it just adds onto what you already have though.
Usually to avoid free archetype to be too strong, the rule suggest to avoid giving a caster archetype to a caster or martial to a martial.
| 7 people marked this as a favorite. |
Usually to avoid free archetype to be too strong, the rule suggest to avoid giving a caster archetype to a caster or martial to a martial.
Thats dual classing, free archetype only brings up resilience feats.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Magus/Wizard and Magus/Witch are going to be strong, but not necessarily broken.
You have two extra 1st, and an extra 2nd and 3rd level slot up to 11th level. That's not a lot; it's comparable to what you could get from ancestry feats, just with better selection.
After that, you're getting more fuel, but little of it really helps your spellstrike, since your cantrips at that point are still generally going to be stronger.
I suspect that Cleric might actually be better in some ways. Depending on team composition, you could rather have access to the status buffs from the divine list, and acquiring the domain spells for the Fire or Cold domain gives you some potent pocket nukes you can use for spellstriking every fight.
Restricting the free archetype to a limited set of choices is another way to limit that option. For example, it appears that the choices of free archetype in the upcoming Strength of Thousands AP is limited to Druid Dedication or Wizard Dedication -- so no extra martial multiclassing in possible in that scenario.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm kind of hoping that a Runelord with Magus Dedication will be a half-deceny hybrid. Seems unlikely that a full caster needs more than one Spell Strike per fight anyway.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Usually to avoid free archetype to be too strong, the rule suggest to avoid giving a caster archetype to a caster or martial to a martial.
But is Magus a Caster or Martial?
| 8 people marked this as a favorite. |
Usually to avoid free archetype to be too strong, the rule suggest to avoid giving a caster archetype to a caster or martial to a martial.But is Magus a Caster or Martial?
Yes.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Yes.Usually to avoid free archetype to be too strong, the rule suggest to avoid giving a caster archetype to a caster or martial to a martial.But is Magus a Caster or Martial?
Ironically, I feel like there's some potential truth in this. If the Magus is designed perfectly, his toolkit provides enough of both to make him lack neither martial abilities nor magical abilities.
In a perfect world, the most optimal archetype for him would be something granting more utility like Talisman Dabbler or something skill-based like Rogue Dedication.
Does anyone know if an updated Synthesis feat for the Summoner will be included in Secrets of Magic? The playtest version of Synthesis was disappointing, to say the least.
Does anyone know if an updated Synthesis feat for the Summoner will be included in Secrets of Magic? The playtest version of Synthesis was disappointing, to say the least.
Still there, working the same way, but with another name though.
| 7 people marked this as a favorite. |
Does anyone know if an updated Synthesis feat for the Summoner will be included in Secrets of Magic? The playtest version of Synthesis was disappointing, to say the least.
They’ve said a proper Synthesist will likely be a Class Archetype in a later book.
Cheers thanks!
I think they revealed at paizocon that the eidolon starts with one (or was it even two?) ability scores at 18.
| 8 people marked this as a favorite. |
I think they revealed at paizocon that the eidolon starts with one (or was it even two?) ability scores at 18.
The Eidolon starts with one 18, and the Summoner can start with 18 Charisma, so the character as a whole can start with two.
| 8 people marked this as a favorite. |
Mbe’ke or Taralu dwarf summoner with a cloud dragon eidolon. Great character, or the greatest character?
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
By the power of our slowness, I might be able to try the summoner before the end of our AoA 3rd chapter.
I know that we only know what was on the playtest, but I'd like to discuss even based on what we currently know.
Our party is composed by
- Goblin sorcerer ( hag ). The group "leader". He speaks, lies, makes deal and doesn't really care about anything but trading.
- Half Elf Swashbuckler: A street urchin who doesn't care neither of the rules nor the people ( He's not evil, but might be kinda selfish ).
- Dwarf Druid: Ex miner, now a shapeshifter with also animal order druid. He cares about the animals, but has no issue following his goblin friend.
- Human Ranger: Eldritch Archer. Good guy, but chaotic. I could say that he craves for fights, so it might be difficult to get a full approval for a non trivial encounter with enemies.
Then there's me
- Aasimar Champion: Paladin of Shelyn. Guess I said anything ( from the shelyn edicts and the paladin cause ). .
I really like the character for what concerns its combat mechanics, as well as being tied by codes and a strong faith, but I have to admit ( you probably wouldn't be surprised ) that fitting in that group led to different issues.
That's why I was considering a summoner.
In your opinion, not having a frontline champion ( and instead a summoner ) how much might affect the combat?
In the other campaign we are playing, our group has no champion and the difference is more than huge.
What do you think?
Would the difference be that much or I could somehow manage not to make the difference that big?ps: as for the kind of summoned, I am open to anything ( probably slight less interested in the angelic one, but I'll consider that one too ).
Well, from what we know the Summoner will have a good chunk of HP since they have 10 per level. We also know that the Eidolon will have a stat with 18, so making it melee as either STR or DEX based is pretty good. So they should be pretty durable, especially if you can give them support with spells/focus.
The Summoner+Eidolon seem to be a different type of GISH so when combined with your other party members I think they will do fine if you build for durability in the front with the Eidolon.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I can see so much possibility for the tactic of using an eidolon tanking on the front lines while the summoner hangs back and gets touch healed by the cleric/other party healer, saving the the group the problems of having to get the healer up to the front line tank, getting the tank to fall back for healing, or casting a less powerful ranged heal.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I can see so much possibility for the tactic of using an eidolon tanking on the front lines while the summoner hangs back and gets touch healed by the cleric/other party healer, saving the the group the problems of having to get the healer up to the front line tank, getting the tank to fall back for healing, or casting a less powerful ranged heal.
I could see Divine Summoners doing that with or without a healer lol
I can see so much possibility for the tactic of using an eidolon tanking on the front lines while the summoner hangs back and gets touch healed by the cleric/other party healer, saving the the group the problems of having to get the healer up to the front line tank, getting the tank to fall back for healing, or casting a less powerful ranged heal.I could see Divine Summoners doing that with or without a healer lol
Occult and Primal Summoners too.
I can see so much possibility for the tactic of using an eidolon tanking on the front lines while the summoner hangs back and gets touch healed by the cleric/other party healer, saving the the group the problems of having to get the healer up to the front line tank, getting the tank to fall back for healing, or casting a less powerful ranged heal.I could see Divine Summoners doing that with or without a healer lol
Sure, but remember that the summoner and eidolon share their action economy, as well as their hit points. A tank that does not have to spend actions healing himself, is going to have more actions to tank with, which will make him better at tanking than someone doing double duty with healing themselves, too. There are more benefits to this sort of tactic, but that alone is a big deal.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Not coming out until late August. Damn.
|
|
Sure, but remember that the summoner and eidolon share their action economy, as well as their hit points. A tank that does not have to spend actions healing himself, is going to have more actions to tank with, which will make him better at tanking than someone doing double duty with healing themselves, too. There are more benefits to this sort of tactic, but that alone is a big deal.I can see so much possibility for the tactic of using an eidolon tanking on the front lines while the summoner hangs back and gets touch healed by the cleric/other party healer, saving the the group the problems of having to get the healer up to the front line tank, getting the tank to fall back for healing, or casting a less powerful ranged heal.I could see Divine Summoners doing that with or without a healer lol
This is true, however this is also where the rarely used 1 action Heal spell could shine. No matter what, 1 of the 4 actions (due to Act Together) has to go to the Summoner himself, so using that for battle medicine or a 1 action heal spell still gives the Eidolon 3 actions to play with. Not to say having somebody else do it isn't just as good if not better, but it does make for an interesting mechanic.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
With them sharing MAP and the playtest summoner's weapon progression presumably not changing it's probably not going to be a real thing but...
Feel like a Summoner who fights in tandem alongside their eidolon would be really cool and something you could support easily with just a couple feats.
This is true, however this is also where the rarely used 1 action Heal spell could shine. No matter what, 1 of the 4 actions (due to Act Together) has to go to the Summoner himself, so using that for battle medicine or a 1 action heal spell still gives the Eidolon 3 actions to play with. Not to say having somebody else do it isn't just as good if not better, but it does make for an interesting mechanic.
I can definitely see Vital Beacon being an invaluable tool for Summoners capable of casting it, since they can just hang back and use their one obligatory action to heal while the eidolon does their thing.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
If at all possible I’m trying to figure out a way either with Sword or Bow to have my Summoner on the front lines. I’m looking at martial weapons and medium armor. I will more than likely be going for Beast or Dragon Eidolons in the fashion of either Tigrex/Barioth or Rathalos. Being a Monster Hunter Stories rider and eventually being able to Mount and ride my Eidolon as well as it being able to fly and such things as breath fire or ice or throw rocks will be fun! I was going to mask my magic as using items like potions and such. I’m not sure if it’s plausible to use the summoner half in this way but I don’t know enough for how the multiclass might look or other things to actually make it work. Potentially Eldritch Archer multiclass..
From the base Summoner, you might have a harder time with it. Dipping into the Sentinel archetype will only get you Expert in medium armor at 13th level, so you're still gonna be very squishy VS another martial. And the only way to increase weapon proficiency is going Fighter MC, or the Mauler or Archer archetypes.
Might be better to go into base class Fighter, then multiclass into Summoner instead. Apparently you end up with a surprising amount of Eidolon abilities via the MC, but you'll lack the Act Together class feature that'll alleviate the problems with the action economy.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
I really hope there is a feat option kind of like hunted shot that allows a summoner and Eidolon to attack together and not raise MAP until after the two attacks are rolled otherwise the flank buddy fantasy from 1E will be dead.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
If at all possible I’m trying to figure out a way either with Sword or Bow to have my Summoner on the front lines. I’m looking at martial weapons and medium armor. I will more than likely be going for Beast or Dragon Eidolons in the fashion of either Tigrex/Barioth or Rathalos. Being a Monster Hunter Stories rider and eventually being able to Mount and ride my Eidolon as well as it being able to fly and such things as breath fire or ice or throw rocks will be fun! I was going to mask my magic as using items like potions and such. I’m not sure if it’s plausible to use the summoner half in this way but I don’t know enough for how the multiclass might look or other things to actually make it work. Potentially Eldritch Archer multiclass..
The big problem I see with this kind of build is that the Summoner has caster weapon progression, doesn't benefit from eidolon buffs and the two of you share MAP. So an attack with a Summoner is always going to be just plain worse than another attack with an eidolon.
Act Together helps by giving you better action economy here, but you're still making a weak attack that makes your Eidolon's subsequent attacks worse. Something like Cast A Spell - Act Together [Strike, Strike] could work, but a caster strike at -5 MAP is pretty bad.
A single low level feat that provides some bonus if you Strike Together would be really really cool and potentially save this build though, like suggested above.
| 8 people marked this as a favorite. |
Dipping into the Sentinel archetype will only get you Expert in medium armor at 13th level, so you're still gonna be very squishy VS another martial.
That's actually not a big issue since all martials except the tanky ones (fighter, champion and monk) aren't any better. They get Expert armor at 13. Well, and master at 19 but other than those last two levels, Sentinel puts you right where most martials are when it comes to armor.
That's the nice thing about Sentinel. It's much closer to what martials get than the weapon proficiency granting archetypes.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Hm. What would Magus with a Summoner Dedication look like? Just wondering. :)