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New book means more possible build, let's show each other what you managed to do with it.
Catfolk Swashbuckler Marshal, charismatic leader
Ancestry Feats
Nine Lives Heritage
1) Well Met Traveler
5) Cat Luck
9) Expanded Luck
13) Black Cat Curse
17) Reliable Luck
Class Feats
1) One for All
2) Marshal Archetype
4) Inspiring Marshal Stance
6) Steel Yourself
8) Precise Finisher
10) Topple Foe
12) Reflexive Riposte
14) Impossible Riposte
16) Deadly Grace
18) Parry and Riposte
20) Panache Paragon
Simple Swashbuckler to start, Marshal gives a Diplomacy boost to expert at lvl 2 and when you are in Panache you will gain a bonus to enter the Inspiring Marshal Stance, the rest is just riposte stuff.
Elf Nature Cloistered Cleric of Gozreh, a tree hugger.
Ancestry Feats
Whisper Elf Heritage
1) Woodcraft
5) Forest Stealth
9) Tree Climber
13) Wandering Heart
17) Elf Step
Class Feats
2) Herbalist Archetype
Skill Feat: Fresh Ingredients
4) Radiant Infusion
6) Expert Herbalism
8) Beastmaster Archetype
10) Mature Beastmaster's Animal Companion
12) Incredible Beastmaster's Companion
14) Specialized Beastmaster Companion
16) Eternal Blessing
18) Miraculous Possibility
20) Maker of Miracles
Normal Cleric, but green and with a Wolf trying to eat the enemy. Healing for days, 10 minutes rest? Drink this damn potion and keep the Heroism buff partner.
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One combo I think could be fun is a crossbow-focused precision Ranger nabbing some of the Eldritch Archer feats that encourage 1 attack per turn. Just lean as hard as you can into the "one big hit per turn" playstyle.
An Investigator who archetypes into Aldori Duelist could also be pretty fun.
I was thinking of making a Wizard Witch Druid for fun but I think Wizard Witch alone might not just be a joke build but actually decent
Ancient Elf
LVL 1: Universalist (Spellbook Prodigy), Metamagic Thesis (Reach), Witch Dedication for Primal or Divine spells (Free Familiar)
LVL 2:Enhanced Familiar
LVL 4: Basic Witch Spellcasting
LVL 6: Spell Penetration or Basic Witchcraft (Cauldron)
after that the arcane bond feats and the witch spell upgrades and maybe a feat or breadth, scroll savant from wiz if there's room.
there's an option to go adopted ancestry human multi talented for another dedication that would for RPing have been druid to gain access to every non divin spellcasting school but topping at expert spellcasting and consuming high level feats is probably just bad.
Dragon Disciple's Dragon Arcana gives some very juicy feats to Divine and Primal spell lists if you can grab it.
shield, true strike, resist energy, haste, spell immunity, chromatic wall, dragon form, mask of terror, prismatic wall, and overwhelming presence
I'm working on a gishy support kobold aasimar cleric sorcerer and those true strikes might come in handy
I like the idea of a Talisman Dabbler, but I struggle to think of a build where it would be better than a standard spell-casting archetype. Someone please show me how wrong I am.
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Dragon Disciple's Dragon Arcana gives some very juicy feats to Divine and Primal spell lists if you can grab it.
shield, true strike, resist energy, haste, spell immunity, chromatic wall, dragon form, mask of terror, prismatic wall, and overwhelming presence
I'm working on a gishy support kobold aasimar cleric sorcerer and those true strikes might come in handy
My own idea is a Blue-scaled Kobold Tempest Oracle who is trying to focus on his draconic abilities since he feels more in control of them then the lightning powers he was cursed with.
My own idea is a Blue-scaled Kobold Tempest Oracle who is trying to focus on his draconic abilities since he feels more in control of them then the lightning powers he was cursed with.Dragon Disciple's Dragon Arcana gives some very juicy feats to Divine and Primal spell lists if you can grab it.
shield, true strike, resist energy, haste, spell immunity, chromatic wall, dragon form, mask of terror, prismatic wall, and overwhelming presence
I'm working on a gishy support kobold aasimar cleric sorcerer and those true strikes might come in handy
I eat this stuff up. I'm gonna be making SO MANY kobolds.
With Free Archetype rules these things get nuts. I am now adding on Champion multiclass to mine for champion's reaction. AND I have enough to actually get more of the DD stuff I wanted but didn't have room for like Scales.
As excited as I am to see the DD come back, if you're coming at it from a Dragon Instinct barb, does it really put much on the table? So far I haven't got a real feel for that.
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Ultimate sniper:
Ranger precision
Half elf - multiclass Investigator + Assassin combo
1 - X
2- Assassin
4- X
6- Sneak attack
8 - X
10 - Investigator stratagem (you take investigator multiclass from half elf ancestry)
12- Assassination (POWER SPYKE)
Hide from the enemy (stealth or invi), hunt pray (ranger) + hunt for dead (assassin). You must be in a spot where you can be for a long time.
Every turn you try Devise a Stratagem (investigator) until you hit with a crit. Then you shot:
Composite longbow with the best runes and amonition. (Anarchy rune)
Damage:
(Normal bow damage + STR ) x2 + runes
+ deadly trait of the bow
+ sneak attack dmg
+ Devise Stratagem dmg
+ precision hunter dmg
+ 6d6 assassination damage
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Every turn you try Devise a Stratagem (investigator) until you hit with a crit.
...huh. Never would have thought of that.
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...huh. Never would have thought of that.Every turn you try Devise a Stratagem (investigator) until you hit with a crit.
Oh, yeah. Investigators make really good assassins just in general. The ability to accurately predict whether you will crit on your big attack is huge.
Actually, I think a single classed Investigator is better than a Ranger at that, since at 12th they're getting +3d6 from Strategic Strike to the Ranger's +2d8 from Precision (and eventually scale to 5d6 to the Ranger's 3d8).
The Ranger has advantages in other areas, but if we're trying to optimize a single big attack, I think Investigator is actually better than anyone.
A 12th level Investigator Assassin is hitting for 4d8+18d6+2 or thereabouts on an Assassinate, plus Deadly, plus any poison, and almost assuredly over 100 damage from that one attack.
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off the top of my head...
Hobgoblin
Investigator
MC Wizard (Divination)
If you can't find out something one way, you can find out another.
Tempest Oracle with major curse (15’ difficult terrain emanation), the new punishing reflex spell for persistent bleed, sorcerer MC and Sepulchral Mask focus spell (damaging AOE emanation for one minute), get people stuck near you for constant damage. Hmm, maybe repulsion spell and always stand just outside their reach.
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I like the idea of a Talisman Dabbler, but I struggle to think of a build where it would be better than a standard spell-casting archetype. Someone please show me how wrong I am.
Option #1:
On a Caster that moonlights as a Martial.
Since Talismans are consumables that have specific trigger conditions, that balance between meeting those conditions all-the-time and not-at-all seems the sweet spot.
Bards, Druids, Oracles, Sorcerers, Warpriests, and Witches built with 5 or 6 Ability Boosts distributed to their physical ability scores (ST, DX, CON) who maybe use Ancestry / General feats to pick up Armor and Weapon proficiencies without leaning into other archetypes (for the first 10ish levels).
Threading that needle!
Monk->Monastic Archer Stance-> Eldritch Archer
Bonus points if you get a free archetype or play with dual class, this is opening up some nasty options
New book means more possible build, let's show each other what you managed to do with it.
Catfolk Swashbuckler Marshal, charismatic leader
** spoiler omitted **
Elf Nature Cloistered Cleric of Gozreh, a tree hugger.
** spoiler omitted **
Why specifically catfolk here? Cooperative nature looks to link very well with One for All. Drastically increase your chance of beating the +5 for “very hard”. Indeed almost eliminates it
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Why specifically catfolk here? Cooperative nature looks to link very well with One for All. Drastically increase your chance of beating the +5 for “very hard”. Indeed almost eliminates it
Mostly because Black Cat Curse, to make enemies reroll ally Spellcasters spells. A good commander thinks on all their subordinates.
Anyway, another build...
Investi-Gator
Ancestry Feats
Cliffscale Heritage
1) Razor Claws
5) Gecko's Grip
9) Terrain Advantage
13) Unarmed Cunning
17) Reptike Speaker
Class Feats
Alchemical Studies
1) Trap Finder
2) Snarecrafter Archetype
4) Surprise Snare
6) Shared Stragem
8) Giant Snares
10) Powerful Snares
12) Ongoing Strategy
14) Suspect of Opportunity
16) Didactic Strike
18) Talisman Dabbler Dedication
20) Just the Facts
Normal Investigator stuff with traps to get suspects scooby doo style.
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Orc Ancestor Oracle (Orcacle) + Marshall
Inspiring battle commander channeling legendary orc heroes!
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...huh. Never would have thought of that.Every turn you try Devise a Stratagem (investigator) until you hit with a crit.
Oh, yeah. Investigators make really good assassins just in general. The ability to accurately predict whether you will crit on your big attack is huge.
Actually, I think a single classed Investigator is better than a Ranger at that, since at 12th they're getting +3d6 from Strategic Strike to the Ranger's +2d8 from Precision (and eventually scale to 5d6 to the Ranger's 3d8).
The Ranger has advantages in other areas, but if we're trying to optimize a single big attack, I think Investigator is actually better than anyone.
A 12th level Investigator Assassin is hitting for 4d8+18d6+2 or thereabouts on an Assassinate, plus Deadly, plus any poison, and almost assuredly over 100 damage from that one attack.
I think in practice that will depend on the environment, appropriately enough. An investigator will probably be able to slide in a knife in between someone's ribs like no other in an urban setting. As long as your bluff score is good enough, you can probably just walk up and talk to the person until you get your moment.
But I think for outdoor sniping in the wilderness, you really can't beat the ranger. Superior range plus better features to avoid notice and escape through difficult terrain. Give them Devise a Strategem and let them sit in a spot for long enough, and they will really mess someone up.
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Here is one for proper nutters.
Giant Instinct Barbarian with Champion archetype (Antipaladin of Rovagug) with Mauler archetype (easy to get because it's mostly class feats anyway).
Break stuff, knock yourself out.
Ancestry: Orc. I don't intend to be Golarion racist, but Orc, why not, we are not going for subtlety here.
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I think in practice that will depend on the environment, appropriately enough. An investigator will probably be able to slide in a knife in between someone's ribs like no other in an urban setting. As long as your bluff score is good enough, you can probably just walk up and talk to the person until you get your moment.
But I think for outdoor sniping in the wilderness, you really can't beat the ranger. Superior range plus better features to avoid notice and escape through difficult terrain. Give them Devise a Strategem and let them sit in a spot for long enough, and they will really mess someone up.
Uh...Investigators have Longbow Proficiency and the ability to use Strategic Strike with all ranged weapons, and has double the Skill Feats (with Survival being a Wisdom skill, after all). I mean, the Ranger can ignore range penalties...but if you're just waiting for a crit that hardly matters.
So I'm unclear on what advantage the Ranger has in terms of the actual shot, and am pretty sure the Investigator can manage the 'getting away' part as well as anybody can.
As excited as I am to see the DD come back, if you're coming at it from a Dragon Instinct barb, does it really put much on the table? So far I haven't got a real feel for that.
At 16th, you can turn into a dragon once per hour, that's pretty nifty, especially since it auto scales and whenever you crit, you can use the breath weapon again. Probably works well enough with rage and such? Worst case every hour, you can grab a 100 fly speed mobility for 1min if you need to get somewhere fast with an ally on your back.
As excited as I am to see the DD come back, if you're coming at it from a Dragon Instinct barb, does it really put much on the table? So far I haven't got a real feel for that.At 16th, you can turn into a dragon once per hour, that's pretty nifty, especially since it auto scales and whenever you crit, you can use the breath weapon again. Probably works well enough with rage and such? Worst case every hour, you can grab a 100 fly speed mobility for 1min if you need to get somewhere fast with an ally on your back.
Level 18, actually.
I'm wondering how to improve the accuracy of the Dragon Form attacks. Barbarians might now have problems but my Cleric does.
Also, really wish I could extend that 1 minute duration.
An Alchemist or an alchemical sciences Investigator with the scrounger archetype looks like it would kind of neat. Don't need a book to remember all your alchemical formulas.
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I'm still hammering out the fine details, but I really want to play an archery monk with the marshal archetype for that sweet, sweet moment when they can go bow flurry (single action, normal flurry MAP) > To Battle! (two action, no MAP ranged Strike from ally) > Target of Opportunity (reaction ranged Strike, no MAP and -2 penalty).
I'm still hammering out the fine details, but I really want to play an archery monk with the marshal archetype for that sweet, sweet moment when they can go bow flurry (single action, normal flurry MAP) > To Battle! (two action, no MAP ranged Strike from ally) > Target of Opportunity (reaction ranged Strike, no MAP and -2 penalty).
Nice that's a good combo.
Can you Ki Strike with a bow since it's just making a flurry with a bonus?
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I'm still hammering out the fine details, but I really want to play an archery monk with the marshal archetype for that sweet, sweet moment when they can go bow flurry (single action, normal flurry MAP) > To Battle! (two action, no MAP ranged Strike from ally) > Target of Opportunity (reaction ranged Strike, no MAP and -2 penalty).Nice that's a good combo.
Can you Ki Strike with a bow since it's just making a flurry with a bonus?
You should be able to use Ki Strike with a bow as long as you're in Monastic Archer Stance.
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Poison Wizard
Ancestry - Any Ancestry that have a big weapon, like Dwarves, Orcs and Half-Orcs
Universalist Wizard - Familiar Thesis (for more reagents and one focus)
Yeet poisoned weapons with Hand of Apprentice and get the reaction to coat your clothes in poison, use spells that gives drained, frightened and sickened for increased success rate.
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really liked the dragon disciple more than the old one although it would have been cool to have a level 20 feat to just stay a dragon indefinitely and switch back as you wish, its just one of those thing you wonder why not
Uh...Investigators have Longbow Proficiency and the ability to use Strategic Strike with all ranged weapons, Investigator can manage the 'getting away' part as well as anybody can.
I'd actually assume crossbow would do better damage than a longbow on the ranger here, but I didn't crunch the numbers and don't think the DPR numbers are going to matter that much here. I do think a crossbow build has some other advantages that are relevant, as discussed below.
and has double the Skill Feats (with Survival being a Wisdom skill, after all)
The most relevant skills here would be stealth, though. The Investigator might have more room in the build for such feats, but really all you should need is Terrain Stalker and maybe Fast Stealth for the get away.
So I'm unclear on what advantage the Ranger has in terms of the actual shot, I mean, the Ranger can ignore range penalties...but if you're just waiting for a crit that hardly matters.
So I'm unclear on what advantage the Ranger has in terms of the actual shot,
True, unless the shot needs to be from a ridiculously long distance to even be a hit... which is possible but a bit contrived. But I'm suggesting that the Ranger will probably fare a lot better after the shot. The shot is important, but if you are targeting someone likely to die in one crit (even a super crit) or likely to critically fail the save who has no backup that will come after you, then you're probably overthinking what be an easy encounter anyway.
Against a credible thread? Every 75 feet or so you can put between you and the enemy is another round you get to take essentially free shots at them before they can muster effectively hit you, barring stuff like fireball you probably dodge with Evasion anyway. And that becomes two rounds per segment if they need to cross difficult terrain.
and am pretty sure the Investigator can manage the 'getting away' part as well as anybody can.
I find that unlikely in the wilderness. Wild Stride means you'll have an easy time outpacing land-bound foes. Camouflage means you'll have an easier time Sneaking away from them. And Trackless Step means it will be harder to actually. Also, Running Reload is great if you split the distance and do a fighting retreat. And if you leave some snares for them to stumble into? Oh boy.
The Investigator might be able to pick some of those tricks up through ancestry or other archetypes, but they certainly need to work harder for advantages the Ranger gets free or easily. Now, I'll admit I am maybe missing the point of the thread, if we are trying to make theory craft min maxed things without regards for actual play, but I didn't think we had gotten there yet. (We probably will eventually, though.)
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As excited as I am to see the DD come back, if you're coming at it from a Dragon Instinct barb, does it really put much on the table? So far I haven't got a real feel for that.At 16th, you can turn into a dragon once per hour, that's pretty nifty, especially since it auto scales and whenever you crit, you can use the breath weapon again. Probably works well enough with rage and such? Worst case every hour, you can grab a 100 fly speed mobility for 1min if you need to get somewhere fast with an ally on your back.
The Dragon Barb can already do that trick, the only advantage I can see to taking this version on top of (or instead of) that is having a non-raging version, maybe?
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Leshy Leaf Order Druid who takes the Beastmaster Dedication to get an Arboreal Sapling Companion. Once your companion gets big enough, you can be a tree riding a tree riding a tree.
Rogue beastmaster
Gang up feat (flank if an ally is thratening the enemy) for permanently sneak stacks.
Combo = comand animal + 2 attacks.
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Elf Investigator with the Mauler archetype. Calculating the best way to smush you in one hit.
Rogue beastmaster
Gang up feat (flank if an ally is thratening the enemy) for permanently sneak stacks.
Combo = comand animal + 2 attacks.
Very cool!
I primarily play with free Archetype so investigator offers some interesting options for a martial character to take on a int based multicass and do much recall knowledge support.
Messing with witch dedication for hair and nails with focus spells for the nails spell strike.
Or when investigator with the mastermind rogue racket. Why not get another d6 precision mwahaha.
Archer stance monk or precision ranger with Eldritch Archer.
Animal barbarian with martial artist.
Investigator with Mauler is interesting.
Swashbuckler Marshal.
TROGDOR THE BURNINATOR- Red Kobold barbarian with the red dragon totem.
It takes kobold breath, dragon's breath, and dragon's rage breath. You will usually get at least two AoE blasts per combat, allowing you to be a large portion of the team's AoE. Give the fact that msot fights last 4-6 rounds, this means you are spewing fire for a big proportion of every fight.
And the funniest part? I can actually make a good regular barbarian with a kobold now. I might need to take a flaw to round things out, and it would likely tend towards an intimidation build to use that cha, but that is funny too, so I like it.
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Raging Beauty
Basically Barbarian with Celebrity archetype.
Get Furious Finish, Second Wind and Never Tire Reaction.
Basically Furious Finish and Second Wind loop using the Never Tire of Celebrity to avoid the fatigued.
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Raging Beauty
Basically Barbarian with Celebrity archetype.
Get Furious Finish, Second Wind and Never Tire Reaction.
Basically Furious Finish and Second Wind loop using the Never Tire of Celebrity to avoid the fatigued.
Takes your level 2, 4, 6, and 8 class feats to accomplish, but I guess rage cycling is back.
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Was just thinking of a "Drunken Assassin" Style Monk.
lvl1 - Stumbling Stance
lvl2 - Assassin Dedication
lvl4 - Expert Backstabber
lvl6 - Stumbling Feint
lvl8 - Sneak Attacker
lvl10 - Prevailing Position
lvl12 - Assassinate
Stumbling stance works well due to the free feint from Stumbling Feint to try and get the most out of sneak attacker and the improved Backstabber traits.
Thought about doing it with Cobra Style for added poison-ness and you end up with 1d4, Deadly d12, backstabber attacks so that's kinda fun.
Was just thinking of a "Drunken Assassin" Style Monk.
lvl1 - Stumbling Stance
lvl2 - Assassin Dedication
lvl4 - Expert Backstabber
lvl6 - Stumbling Feint
lvl8 - Sneak Attacker
lvl10 - Prevailing Position
lvl12 - AssassinateStumbling stance works well due to the free feint from Stumbling Feint to try and get the most out of sneak attacker and the improved Backstabber traits.
Thought about doing it with Cobra Style for added poison-ness and you end up with 1d4, Deadly d12, backstabber attacks so that's kinda fun.
I've literally been tossing this around in my head the past few days. Seems like a lot of fun both mechanically and RP wise.
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So I'm looking forward to the day I build my Ratfolk Rogue.
I want him to take the rat familiar so I can give it hands and the new Partner in crime ability to get Aid bonus for all my Thevery and Deception rolls (Free reaction to do so) and ASAP likely with my first general feat take ratspeak so we can talk as well.
Then I want him to take beastmaster for a Giant Rat animal companion (I have this in another post) also we should be able to speak. Lots of Roguie, Ratie, reeving to be had :-)