Well, you get to switch daily.
So depending on where you are and what are your objectives, you can easily adapt it.
It's usually pretty telltale when you go to fight Undead.
And if it's not a "dedicated undead" area but just 1-2 random encounter ones, then you don't lose much if for just 1-2 fights you don't have the "optimal" rune.
Later on, Holy and Flaming are also pretty solid for "default" option.
Deity weapon is not important at all.
as a "class feature" it exists so that if you want to play with it, and it's a simple bad weapon, it isn't completely terrible imo.
for ceremonies, parades, rituals and such, you can already have one favored weapon for your "official attire" (probably embelished AF as well) but i do not think that the Deities expect their champions to use subpar weapons in actual combat just for their looks.
seems extremely weak from like level 5 and onwards.
Maybe something like "2*Mutagen level+Int" sounds better balance wise. It starts at 6 which is about the same as a Shield cantrip damage mitigration, and scales approprietly for a "once per day save my butt" reaction.
Champion, especially if he plans to go with Smite, and doubly so if he wants both Smite and shield, needs as much action economy enhancers as possible.
For this I think the most "optimal" is monk MC with Flurry and monk weapons.
You can go with Ranger as well, weapon+shield spikes/boss twin takedown. It comes online much earlier and cheaper (feat wise), but it's worse in the sense it loses 1 action per target, so you'd need to hit like 2-3 turns each enemy to be of great value.
You've argued your point, yes.That doesn't make your argument correct though.
As far as I can tell, ALL discussions about if "ammunition is a weapon" degrade into both factions being sure that their argument is the Raw one.
This makes only one thing clear:
That RAW supports actually none, and that even in the most official of rules reading (pfs) it's 1000% up to GM to rule if it's one or the other until clear errata about the issue is made.
The only things we know about ammunition are:
A) they appear in the weapon table WITHOUT something telling us they are not weapons.
The above is the only RAW about them.
And obviously, since there are like 3 threads about that, it can be read in multiple ways.
Not really though.
Being in the same table IS enough in the absence of restrictive language (like unarmed). At least by strict Raw.
It is as "astrological computations" as saying that "those aren't the rules for PF 2 just because they are in a book merely called pathfinder 2 rulebook".
The only other thing that is the table and ISN'T a weapon is specifically called so (unarmed).
And "unarmoured" IS NOT on the "Armour table".
In fact there's a whole separate "unarmoured proficiency" right above the "armour" table.
in pf2 you specifically AREN'T your own Ally anymore. it is spelled quite clearly.
i personally see no issue with poisoning ammunition.
does that favor the ranged over the melee?
It makes sense to me, and poisons aren't that big of a deal either way, they are either extremely expensive, or (if by an alchemist) cost precious resources to use
the alternative, "poison a bow" sounds terrible to me, not like "it's bad for immersion" but more like "it shot Immersion on the head, covered it with concrete, and dumped it into a lake".
it doesn't provide them.
it says "all common items in THIS chapter"
that's in the Gear chapter, not in the Treasure chapter (that's where all the alchemical/magical items are)
I'd say that you need to have the poison in hand to poison something.
General rule is you need to be holding the items you use unless they say otherwise. Poison doesn't specify that it can be used if not in hand, so it can't.
Case in point, "drinking" a potion is an interact action. You still need to have them on hand, or draw them with a separate Interact action.
As for the "free hand" required, I think it's more like in the spirit of the last sentence in potions as well, it's the hand that's holding the poison.
If it required a separate hand, it would be like "Oils": one hand holding the item, the other hand free.
one "costs" you 1 feat, and it's replenishable, thus usable multiple times per day.
the other costs like 4 feats+ and it's only usable once per day.
you're neither adding the persistent damage nor the weaknesses those enemies usually have though.
they "usual" answer is "yes, they do outdamage fighters when those conditions are met"
Once more, if you have to Smite, then you've already gained "defender" benefits from it.
So yeah, in that occasion he's a bit behind but he also simultaneously provided tanking for the group.
If we assume that neither the fighter nor the paladin provided defensive benefits, to even the field there, then the paladin has 1 more action.
That 1 more action, at the very least, is moving to get flank, and have exactly the same "attack bonus" as the fighter.
At level 10 the damage of a power attacking Fighter spikes.
So I don't find it a good reference point.
Fairer would be imo level 12 when Paladin also gets their equivalent to power attack (Blade of justice)
Also very noteworthy is that "smite evil" could easily be on from previous rounds. If it's not, then there's already added defensive benefits from the Paladin since it means that the opponent was forced to attack the paladin already.
So we have 4d12+11+1d6 +4 persistent (persistent averages at +12 over 3 rounds) + 1 reaction attack from everyone around you.
Even at -2 attack compared to fighter, the free reaction attack and the extra +12 damage from persistent,and the +6 from smite, and the free d6 from flaming/disrupting, all weight favorably for paladin.
It's more conditional, but when those conditions are met, it out damages him.
It's usually the opposite.
Due to having to spend an action to raise a shield, you'll probably just use Strike for offence as a shield champion.
On the other hand, that same action can be used for smites, litanies, their (much better) "power attack" and etc.
The shield feats are, not surprisingly, focused on defense, not offense.
Brew Bird wrote:
there hasn't been much, if any, mention about fixes, except for some off-comments. i was refering to one of them.
can't exactly recall when or where (in which media).
that's what you get with them spreading all news over 10 different media and not having them centralized somewhere.
but i remember them saying something along the lines of "we will release fixes before the APG" but can't remember if it was "before the APG" or "before the APG *playtest*"
i sure hope the latter one.
i mean, what's the point to trying to playtest something when the base platform already has several errors in it.
so, his DC is 45 (with 24 ability score, not with 22)
Normal level 20 Npc save:
Weak level 20 save:
a level 20 npc with expert is a save and a 14 in an ability score:
Strong level 20 save:
i do not see any issues with those numbers.
I expect a spread of around 35-80% success rate for a caster depending if he targets a Strong save or a Weak save.
let's say you have a +1 striking and a normal weapon.
with twin it is:
1st attack with magic weapon: +0
you usually will have the same runes on both weapons (due to doubling rings) so it usually is:
12 is not that late since the edition is designed to more easily allow max level. I'd say it's midgame.
But even before that:
Even at 3 actions, imo, they are still usable.
Apart from the regular uses (choke points, camps, ambushes, etc) the way I see them is as a delayed spell.
You set them on one round, you trigger them on next. It's not like the Shoves/throws do nothing else, they still reposition/damage the enemy.
And at "end game" having up to 16, 1 action massive damage spikes is extremely effective.
A neat thing to note is that:
You can entrench a position in a few days to make it hell for enemies to intrude/approach/pass.
What I would do to keep it inline with the rest Instincts:
Start with the fury Instinct as a template.
Use those numbers for the extra damage and resistance (choose appropriate types).
Instead of "free class feat" you gain "Blood magic". (you gain a higher level class feat but lose a bit of flexibility)
Blood magic: As Arcane Sorc MC without the skills but with "spells gained from Blood magic have the Rage trait".
12: expert blood magic. As expert spellcasting+Breadth. Spells gain the rage trait. (much stronger than a mc feat since it's 2 feats for the price of 1 AND gives the trait on said spells)
Keep in mind that at level 11+ you get what you were trying with the auto casting since you get to use a "Rage trait ability" alongside your Rage action. So you can choose a spell and cast it.
This way you gain:
I think those are inline with the rest instincts, slightly towards the strongest side, but not by much.
I feel that for a Bespell build, a monk is also worth checking.
Bespell affects ALL attacks on a round. And Monks have both the ability to attack more times per round via Flurry AND proc Bespell 1-2 times per fight for free via Ki strike/other powers.
Plus, they can either go with a stance and hold the staff in one hand and still attack with the other, OR go for monastic weapons and use Shifting rune as above.
There are a few maneuvers that shine with true strike since they have critical success riders (fatal, bleeds, etc)
well, shield block is accessible to everyone and monks can use shields, although it takes an action to use it.
then you have the various reactions from ancestries. From +saving throw, to orc ferocity, to goblin scuttle.
and in most of my builds, i do tend to pick MC in something, although, if there was one class that can easily go without, it would have been monk. So many great options that you can safely pick a great one in each level.
Maxwell D'Ahmagge wrote:
it's a free action shove, with a flat footed on top, that autosucceeds if you hit with your strike.
and if you miss with your strike, it makes htem flat footed to boot.
it's pretty great for so early on due to the action economy saver, it actually makes shove much more useful rather than situational useful (since you won't be "trading" your strike for it, but just getting it on top of it)
Hiruma Kai wrote:
The pick allows a shield though, as opposed to two handing a bastard sword, so there's this upside. I generally really like shields.
As for heroism... That's brainfart on my part forgetting that it's not in the Arcane list.
Nevertheless, haste is almost as good, since it allows a power attack+true strike even on rounds you have to move around.
Snare specialist removes cost for 4-8 daily snares.
The way I see it:
Is perfectly viable, 3 actions to do the burst of a max level spell is not shabby at all.
Even at 3 actions setup (5 actions in total) its still decent, and as mentioned, you could set, and an ally can Shove in the same round.
You can also check my Master Yeeter build in the weird builds thread for Ranger/Monk that yeets (whirling throw) his opponents into his snares.
double charges on his Staff compared to sorc.
plus, better spellcasting for MC.
as written, spontaneous MC you only get 1 spell (per level) that you can cast. While with prepared MC you still cast only the one/two spells (per level), but you can switch them daily from all within your collection.
The problem imo with trying to visualise it as "10 humans" is that's almost impossible to visualise 10 humans fit so tightly that there 0 wasted space in between them.
IF you actually manage to visualise them so tightly packed that there 0 dead space... Then you actually have compressed them enough to fit in a refrigerator.
So, easier to just imagine the refrigerator from the get go^^
I've built exactly a character like this:
He has his divination staff shifted to a pick, and goes crit fishing like crazy.
Access to heroism, even if limited times per day, helps keeping the pick crits consistent even against boss AC.
I was debating Bespell, but feats are kinda tight to pick it up as a mc feat.
True strike+Pick is <3
Don't forget that you can sacrifice a spell slot at daily prep for extra True Strikes.
And a Power attack crit from a Pick... Well, let's say it hurts.
Imo, snares are worth the 1-3 actions to setup (later on Rangers can setup it in 1 action) since they do amazing damage.
As an example, the level 12 snare deals an average of 63 damage with a basic ref save.
Having, as a ranger, 4-8 "max level spells" worth of damage isn't bad at all.
Compared to strikes, you'd need around 50 or so average damage per round to reach that much damage.
It does need a build that you can move/throw baddies on them though.
probably because you can get much higher damage (trait depending) on unarmed than with one handed weapons.
It's in this weird spot where you can get almost two-handed damage with some of them, and yet still have both your hands "free".
In PF1, the natural attacks were one of the worst thing ever imo, with people trying to grab horns and bites and whatnots to fit into 7+ attack routines.
So, my guess is that in PF2 they want to control that.
So, if they go with a philosophy of "look guys, natural attacks can get busted, so we need a way to police what one can do with them", then making certain that only things they specifically want to work with natural attacks work with them, is one such way.
As you mentioned Thief rogue. If dex to damage worked for unarmed, it would make "monk MC" almost a mandatory pick if you wanted damage, since getting "d8 finesse, agile, backstab, free hand, trip" weapons for the cost of 2 Feats is so far above every weapon in the book so far.
now, it's still a nice MC, getting 2 attacks in 1 action at level 10 plus a great attack to go alongside it, but it's not that one-sided since you'll be losing a bit of damage from losing Dex to damage alongside it.
no, they aren't completly seperate.
as you pointed out, there are times where you can fit a bit of control alongside damage.
but it does require specific scenarios happening, like starting next to the opponent with all of your 3 actions and saving your reaction for damage and etc.
usually, you have to decide between a 2 action attack like drag OR flurry. And even then, having the option to grab instead of an attack and still fitting in a stunning fist that may steal 1 more action from your opponent, is what i would call "switching to control".
But as i said:
the beauty of such a style/feat choice, is exactly that:
it's so flexible in what you can do in a round. It won't reach the damage of a strength based Dragon monk going all out, but it's not that far behind for all the tools it can get and use imo.
Neither Tiger or Wolf stance have restrictive language. Only Mountain and Crane have that. As for "not using the claws" ofc you can. Do you also disallow someone punching if he has claws?
So, for tiger/sorc, you CAN actually use one or the other.
yeah, didn't go in with the "you can ONLY hit with that" stances attacks thing, mainly because i was trying for a more generic responce concerning "can i combine 2 different attacks into one" in which the answer would be "no, but you can use either".
I do agree, that with the specific language some of the stances have, you are directly disallowed to Strike with ANYTHING other than said Strikes. But those stances are only the minority.
do note that Thief doesn't get his "dex to damage" with natural attacks or unarmed, since they aren't weapons.
He only gets dex to damage with actual "weapons".
For pure damage, Dragon style is probably the best.
You can go full damage and use mobility as your defense (move/flurry/move) alongside defensive feats like Winding path and Guarded movement to be mostly safe from everything as you waltz back and forth.
A few ki powers, notably ki strike and either blast or the one that lets you pseudo-fly, and increased focus recovery. As well as "passive" stuff like brawling focus and stunning fists.
Personally, i think a little more well rounded build, maybe a Wolf style dex monk with some strength, is more universally useful because he can switch from a pure damage, to a "control" build in the blink of the eye, and his defences will naturally be higher (at least in the earlier levels) so he can stand his ground and maybe get more attacks in.
most of those can be answered by:
1)because half+ of the alchemist feats are feat taxes with 0 flavor and only trying to be a math fixer for an incredibly weak core class/class features. (100% opposite of pf2 philosophy)
in conjunction with:
and finally with:
3)in combat poisons are utterly terrible. "Pre-buffing" poisons is meh at best, but at least usable. Until level 13 that is. Because why print high level poisons? (that we were told that would be in the final version during the playtest, but whatever)
well, at level 6, you can get gang up and constantly flank with your mount.
the upside of the mount is that it's basically +1 action /round compared to a non mount in every round that you need to move (since with 1 move from your mount you also gain basically a "free" move as well)
the downside is it sharing your MAP and etc.
so there are tradeoffs, better action economy vs better attacks.
ah i thought you were talking about exploration, sorry.
For long duration activities, i would personally rule case by case.
Regardless of "when" you make the roll (which by definition of a game, you will have to make once and not like a dozen of times), there are some activities that actually rely on continuously trying to achieve success throughtout the duration of the activity, so it still seems sketchy to me to allow a "last second cast to augment" those checks.
but in some (few) occasions, i may houserule something like a "sustained casting of the spell" to cover the whole activity.
i would never allow a "1 turn check" to be an 8hour+ long duration activity.
a check that is supposed to span an activity repeated over multiple of hours is not done in mere 6 seconds of time. It is done in all this time combined. (regardless if it's just 1 roll)
That's like saying "here, for the next 6 seconds you're a bit better in Perception. So you should use those 6 seconds to scout for 4hours ahead".
(Plus, in *most* exploration activities, you don't even "pre-roll", but you roll only when something appropriate for said roll occurs)
"Duration: until the start of your next turn"
Compositions specifically END all ongoing effects if you cast another.
It ENDS this effect.
So the very instant you cast another composition, the Frightened 1 effect is removed.
To put it in another way:
ALL round duration effects normally expire at end of round.
So, "+1 status bonus to attack/damage" (from Inspire), as an example, would last until the end of the round.
That's the general rule.
Composition SPECIFIC rule ENDS "ongoing effects".
It doesn't let them expire, it directly cancels them.
Else, every single composition would be able to overlap.
Note the specific language :
" any ongoing effects from your previous composition spell end immediately"
Frightened 1 IS, by definition, an ongoing effect.
This sounds like a great ruling, thanks! Would you require the same actions and roll checks vs Fort against a willing target or an unconscious or paralyzed one? My group has played 6 times already and in 2 or 3 sessions already we have encountered pulling and repositioning questions with no clear CRB answer. One player ran out of breath underwater and the others wanted to grab and pull him out to the surface. Another player got paralyzed by a ghoul and someone wanted to drag him back out of melee range. And in a third case players tied ropes on each other and wanted to pull each other back to safety or up to a ledge after falling. How would you handle the action economy and move speeds here? Underwater had extra difficult terrain since water already slows you down. In this case it was still water so I didn't require Athletics to move.
Reposition hasn't come up on any of my sessions.
as a quick guess, since i haven't thought about it:
Paralyzed: Like dragging a 6 bulk "weight", more if he has a lot of bulk/armor on him. He's not resisting, he's just heavy.
Underwater drowning: Probably normal shove. eYou'd still need to beat a Fort DC (drowning victims sadly do try to pull you under/resist strictly due to reflex) AND i would probably rule for something like "crit fail makes THEM grapple you down"
Ledge falling: oof... i'd say "follow the leader exploration activity" but the thing is, if someone does fall, and the rope is not tightly pinned on the wall itself, it might provoke saving throws from the rest to not get dragged down instead. On the other hand, an "expert climber" would probably secure his rope to the surface unless for some reason he explicitly doesn't want to do so (he wants to pull the rope back up as an example)
the moment you cast Inspire, the ongoing effect of "frighten 1" will disappear.
and yes, lingering on Dirge is amazing, but it's not that clear cut win over Inspire.
to me, Dirge is best in prolonged battles and Inspire in shorter ones.
Thing is, on the first few rounds, your targets can be easily Intimidated, after the intimidation is over and they are immune, THEN it's time to Dirge.
So, on a fight that will last like 3-4 rounds, Inspire will usually have you covered with a +1 and Intimidate with a -1 on the focus targets.
After those rounds elapse, THEN you switch songs.