Skinsaw Cultist

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Silver Crusade

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When I'm scrolling through a guide I want to first scan Blue must takes then Red mistakes (often funny commentary too).

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Excellent. My Chaotic Good Bard will now have rules on how to hunt and kill capitalist exploiters. Fight the power!

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Yes, this is all very well, but will my Elf Technomancer still be able to shoot his shuriken catapult pistol?

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"A couple of things are gonna happen..."

Excellent news. GCP is a superb show, not just for Pathfinder but as entertainment in general. They take a few episodes finding their feet and then it just works.

It's about Giantslayer but also about Pathfinder and the whole concept of finding friends to play a game with. They are a team, committed to the game, and the fear when die rolls go bad is genuine.

It's also laugh out loud funny. Just tune in.

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cannen144 wrote:
In the Iron Gods game I ran, there was a player who joined halfway through book 2 for one session and played a Ratfolk alchemist and had a 13 in intelligence, and a 5 strength, but insisted on carrying a greatsword for some reason and charged into every fight. He even had the gall to chastise the Wizard for having magic missile prepared because it was "sub-optimal". There was a reason he wasn't invited back after that session...

How do you screw up a Ratfolk Alchemist? Every rule and every bit of lore bends over backwards to make it functional from level 1.

And in Iron Gods as well. An AP deliberately designed for nerd tinkerer PCs to shine.


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A guy in my recent party made a Drake Rider Cavalier.

From level 1.

At first he carried the useless thing around in a box, then he left it at the party's house for safety. It was too dangerous to use the one and only class feature, the damned thing is a liability.

Utterly hopeless. He was playing an NPC warrior class.

Not his fault entirely, he saw the fluff, figured he could ride a dragon into combat with his lance and be awesome.

Having said that, he kept on rolling crits and his AC and HP were fine, so it wasn't a total mess. It's the fault of the writers of the poor archetype.

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Possession is the best spell in the game (if you can dispel their Protection from X first).

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Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
Most of the answers to this thread are reinforcing to me how most of these gods are actually good. Just LOL at the Pharasma, Calistria, and Cayden Cailean hate.

Yep, it shows Paizo must be doing something right with such strong opinions.

I do not understand the hate for Cayden. He's a laugh riot, but nice about it. And Calistira, also fun but nastier about it. I see some posters dislike Cayden for being naughty and drinking too much. I suspect it it because most posters are American.

What does surprise me is so little hate for Abadar.

I LOATHE Abadar, and so do the rest of my international online group (including Americans).

He's the god of arbitrary law. F that, I'm not worshipping that, worship law just because someone powerful said those are the rules. No thank you. Just as bad is that his own portfolio has a contradiction. He is the god of law, but also money and the market. The market is entirely about law made by the powerful and the market is not solvable, it is a chaotic system, hence the players in reality are high-stakes gamblers. He is the god of a game in which only the rich may play, by their own rules, and the rules don't always apply. Some god of law he is.

So no, I don't get it. Cayden and Calistira are bad because hedonism is bad, but the god of corporate lickspittles is okay? Not for me, thank you. At least Asmodeus tells you to your face that he's a corporate tyrant. He doesn't pretend any of that 'fair and balanced' pack of lies.

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Snowlilly wrote:
Jader7777 wrote:
Is there ever a scenario where using it even has a negative effect? Like a bunch of paladins bust into the room detecting evil?

Using it on an unconscious paladin was amusing.

The player completely flipped out.

That is from this week's Glass Cannon Podcast.

A very awkward situation.

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I haven't played this and don't intend to (I don't like playing evil people and I want lovely Queen Abby to be more distant from my PCs) but there are two pictures in this book which are among the best I have seen, so congrats Paizo people who put it together.

- The pic of teenage Queen Abby drowning her uncle.

- The pic of Emil and Zelhara dressed up at the party.

So good. Any chance some Paizo person can put one up on this site? I want it as a desktop background.

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Mordant Spire Elf
Normal Elf

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Ng please.

(Good obediences too)

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That's what I guessed happens in 5e upthread, Cabbage (though I don't play that system). Spend a couple of rounds spamming bad effects, then hit them with something killer on the 3rd or 4th round.

Can any 5e players confirm or not that happens?

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I don't think the massive boost to bosses' saves goes far enough. Witch should be banned because the entire point of the class is save or suck. Paladin should be banned because they are designed to nova on evil bosses. Summoning classes should be banned because they can tie up the minions while the adults concentrate on the boss.

The suggestion of Mythic isn't bad though, especially things like Dual Inititaitve and the ability to have a couple of surges to get them over the line a couple of times.

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The Steel Refrain wrote:

My DM uses a house rule where PCs and certain enemies get bonuses against certain 'terminal' effects (such as 'save-or-die' spells, or ones which have an equivalent effect in the particular circumstances, such as a lone BBEG getting nauseated, etc). PCs and 'sub-bosses' get a +4 on saves against such effects, and 'main bosses' get a +8.

I quite like the house rule, as it mitigates situations where PCs get hosed by a single bad roll, while also avoiding some of the anti-climatic battles that can occur when the primary antagonist fails an important save. I think it also subtly pushes PCs away from using 'save-or-die' spells and tactics, which I believe improves the game for everyone.

(My DM also uses hero points for the PCs, while giving important 'main bosses' an equivalent 'villain point' for them to use. It seems like he has been judicious about how he uses those, bringing them out when the enemy is on the ropes, rather than using it to spam hardcore spells right off the jump.)

It does seem punitive to PCs whose whole set of abilities revolve around them getting good DCs up. With these bosses, what is the point in ever using SoD effects as they'll never fail anyway. Do all the casters in these games have middling casting scores and only use buff spells?

For that matter, do these bosses get massive +8 AC bonuses against the Fighter or Barbarian?

Bosses seem to be perfectly happy to use devastating effects against PCs - look at bosses in published APs, they are always using them, from Confusion and Cloudkill to Blasphemy and Wail of the Banshee. Do the bosses in these games only use buffs too?

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Sissyl wrote:
Fifth edition gives boss monsters a limited number of saves they can choose to succeed on. It is way more meta gamey, but I don't see why single opponents shouldn't remain part of the game.

It does sound a bit metagamey. I'd imagine the casters just send expendable spells they don't expect to end the encounter with but are still okay if the enemy fails - stuff like Slow or Terrible Remorse, things like that. Then when you have counted the rounds it will always pass, hit it with the proper save or die like Possession.

I guess it makes battles last longer, but doesn't it mean in practice that the caster waits a few round before striking hard?

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Tanking is often about area denial as well as being tough.

Consider Aberrant Bloodrager with a reach weapon. They can tank, being basically Barbarians. Think about Con and armour to suit. Use a great big glaive or something.

Aberrant Bloodrager gets a reliable way of extending his arms to make his reach enormous. You will also need Tumor Familiar (available for one feat with that Bloodline) and take the Protector Archetype and don't detach it.

It will do stuff like Bodyguard and In Harm's Way for you while still regenerating 5/round. Protector Tumor vastly improves your tankiness.

This guy will hit your benchmarks with room to spare and even some utility spells if you want.

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We played a 3.5 arena game once, high level and we were allowed crazy races and templates. It was the monster mash.

People naturally chose mega charger dungeon crashers and nuker Incantatrixes, all the usual suspects. I played a Cleric. He had the Lernean Hydra template (as an aside, wonder if it will come back? Paizo's own Owen K C Stevens wrote it) so he had two heads and could only be killed by beheading.

I took the Lumi race. Lumi were weird moon men who had detached, floating heads who could not be beheaded...

Yes it was a silly game. Fun though.

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Johnny_Devo wrote:
two permanent negative levels, though.

True, but most Witches take UMD because of their weird spell list and by the time the can use that Hex they can afford the two scrolls and 2000gp for Restoration to bring back the levels.

The more I think on it, it's a really good idea. Get your mind to venerable, force Reincarnate yourself to (rolls on table)...

I got Orc! Woo, enemies will be surprised. A young, spritely Orc... who is an 18th level Witch with 36 Int.

Witches get access to a bunch of spells to alter their own appearance, so it matter less if you don't like your new body.

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Lesser Restoration? Both you and the Spiritualist can get it but one of you really ought to. It's a lifesaver.

Tar ball is a good debuff the rest of the party will enjoy.

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Just like any class, narrow it down a bit.

I think there is mileage in fixing on Sneak Attack then going the Stealth/Hellcat Stealth route, finding a way to disappear and strike.

Or a Helpful Halfling with UMD, trapfinding and well-chosen skill unlocks.

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If you are playing Runelords, Wizard is by far the most important party member. You need one.

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Traveller's Any Tool is a funny one.

Too expensive for level 1 when you need any mundane aquipment you can get, and you may have other options by level 3. However, all the tools on it are Masterwork for skill checks it seems so it's an absolute steal at the price.

Back on topic, for a Witch get an acid flask

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Melf was the brilliantly named Elf, as played by Luke Gygax.

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Drawmij and Azuth had a few.

Leomund had lots.

All amateur hour compared to the horror of Aroden's Spellbane, but that's for another thread.

Edit: Otto too! Otto came up with Irresistible Dance, the loon

And Tasha made Hideous Laughter.

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Bard might be the best for soloing a given adventure, but an entire AP is a tough call. I'm guessing you have a kindly GM.

Playing a solo game means you may have power over NPC cohorts etc. and I'd want Bard for that. Boost UMD, get a meat shield ally... and be careful out there.

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And that Wiz/Alchemist still doesn't have D10 HD, or full Bab. It's better than some ideas in this thread because it does have all 3 good saves and big skills and 9th level casting.

It doesn't get two Quickens a round to cast several infusions and spells, and that is the difficulty with more than one caster class at later levels. I guess if you only use buffs on the Alchemist side it'll be quite effective.

I cannot recommend a pet class for gestalt. Pets are weaker than PCs anyway and with the hordes of enemies in gestalt games they get torn to shreds.

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Wizard/Sniper Slayer

D10 HD, all good saves, full Bab, 9th Wiz casting. 6+ High Int skills and almost everything in class. Your chassis is the best possible. Disregard Armour and just be handy with a bow at first, cast buffs and Gravity Bow. You use Wiz stats boosting Int and Dex. Even in gestalt action economy is a thing and at higher levels your Wiz spells will take all your time anyway.

Combine with a full Bab prc on Slayer side for extra abilities - I used this mixed with Lantern Bearer for some fun SLAs and took the PC to 18th level. Tough game at the end - rooms full of Shuggoths and the like.

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I'll be taking Celestial Obedience if not the class. The Obedience itself is laughably easy for my PC - it is literally to play with her cards every day. The cards which she reads every day, which are her own familiar. Not hard. Useless benefit 5/6 of the time though. Ah well, such is luck.

1st boon is quite good for Glyph of Warding SLA, as it normally costs 200gp a throw. I'all spam it on everything, every bag, lock and door. May as well, the price is right.

2nd boon is awful, near useless. I can't see at level 16 either using blasting scrolls or not having UMD enough to use them anyway. I'm not sure who it could be for, it is simply a bad ability.

3rd I'll likely never play, but it's okay in a minor way. Looks good, which is the main point - at 20th level Golarion's premier Cartomancer really ought to be surrounded by a shield of flying cards.

And that is the ambition I have for her - to be a real representative or voice or some sort of champion of Irez here on Golarion. She is a gambler, a fortune-teller, a magic user, a Harrower and with a bit of luck, within the year she'll have beaten the Crimson Throne AP and can spread the good words of trusting in the luck behind the cards.

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I can answer your question because I've just started playing an Irez worshipper who is not a divine caster. She is a Witch.

Our group has recently began the new improved version of Curse of the Crimson Throne. When it came out James Jacobs replyed to my question about what to play with 'be a Harrower!' So I've taken his word for it, he is not wrong. Harrow cards are immediately vital to the plot of the AP.

For this PC I knew I wanted to be a Harrower so I picked Cartomancer Witch as the base class. She's ethnic Varisian like many card readers, but for the campaign I have made her a bit trashier- the ex-drug addict trait and some points in Profession: Gambler. She's been on the wrong side of the tracks and not all her readings have been above board until now.

But that doesn't mean it isn't true. Desna is a more traditional god for a Varisian, but my Cartomancer has never been much of a traveller, she's a city mouse and when the only friends she'd had are the cards in her hands... Irez had her voice ring out.

As my PC levels up she gets things like Deadly Dealer and lots of crazy powers (9th level Arcane casting does tend to be crazy) and I think it will confirm her faith in Irez as a guide and the path.

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Shaman is doable mainly because you still have Shaman casting. Play one for flavour.

Please think of your fellow party members. Someone in my group plays a Drake Rider Cavalier and all he does is eat our healing resources. They are that bad. Maybe at level 18 they are okay, but still. They only become anywhere near okay after most APs finish. The worst.

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Neal, I am one of those familiar naysayers, I just don't like them.

However, I do want to play an Aberrant Bloodrager (for the reach and general weirdness) and the Protector Tumor (seriously?) sounds like a good, filthy idea.

Good news it is only one feat. As I say, I don't care about them, so we'll never have to detach it. We'll always have Alertness on. The blob resembles the good old Greensting Scorpion for +4 Init. Protector archetype has a use if it shares the same square, that of Bodyguard to Aid Another for AC. Very nice. Shield Other and In Harm's Way still work when attached.

Five useful feats for the price of one seems a fair deal, and this require 0gp investment in the parasite.

Is this okay, or is there a better way?

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Look on discord for the Pathfinder_RPG Server or for it through the Pathfinder RPG subreddit. From there, friendly people get together to play. Roll 20 is used for maps, discord for voice channel.

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Spell Focus Necromancy or Enchantment or both.

Extra Hex for early levels, does depend on your game or retraining.

Accursed Hex if you like Evil Eye and Ice Tomb.

A lot of Wizard stuff applies - Spell Penetration is a given, Quicken almost certainly, Craft Wondorus Items if that applies to your game.

Ley Line Guardian probably wants Great Fortitude or at least a good Con score because of all the Fort saves you have to make with the archetype.

You may have room for a fun one, Deific Obedience gives you a lot of entertainment bang for your buck if playing to high level.

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Dot. I wrote a lengthy post about Irez and then iPad blinked out. Will rewrite.

Short version, I'm a big fan, will explain

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Very fine work.

It does suggest the oceans are bigger than we accounted for and that there might be something between Tian Xia and Arcadia. Also, whither Sarusan, southern Garund?

More exploration is needed!

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From experience, Divine insofar every group I have played in always has a divine PC, often a Paladin, Warpriest, Inquisiotr or Oracle.

It only gets the Arcane influence when I join because only I seem to want to play Arcane, I do not know why this is.

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Fair enough, and your optimised build is good, but that it requires such stringent optimisation is telling.

It's a trap choice for new players. The guy I play with is new, and borrowed the Legacy of Dragons book from another of our group because of the cool pictures and stuff - the Dragons in D&D. That's what he likes, that's what appeals, and it's understandable as a new player. He wants to ride a Drake and he wants to wield a katana.

Yes, we all know these are poor options, but it's easy to see how a new player might think they are awesome. And we believe in learning from mistakes, we are not going to build his PC for him, it's a game he'll only return to, only become truly involved in once he has that vibe and feel for the system learning for yourself gives.

It's that which annoys me about Drakerider. It's not only utter crap, it's utter crap which is superficially inviting and seems like a good idea at the time and potentially makes the game less fun for a newbie whose expectations cannot match the unhappy reality.

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Perhaps it is because Legacy of Dragons is fairly new, Lord Fyre, perhaps not everyone has formed an opinion or seen one in action. Certainly no frequent poster on these boards would be mad enough to play one, for they are very poor. I imagine op made the sweeping statement for dramatic effect, though when you ask people directly they must come to the conclusion they are bad. In my gaming group 5 out of 6 people all decry the uselessness of the Drake Rider Cavalier, we and the GM realise he just drags the group down. It's so bad the PC is actively detrimental. The number 6 player is a newbie and doesn't understand.

And I don't understand it. The book is generally well written and the art is terrific as per usual Paizo standards. The new Draconic bloodlines are a good idea and well-written. The Scaled Claw Cha-based Monk fills a vital gap. Many options are interesting. And then comes these drake archetypes. Lord Fyre - you have entered RPG Superstar and if you had submitted these archetypes you'd have been laughed out of the competition.

I do wonder what the design decision was.

OP has come up with good fixes, but it won't help PFS so we can't now ride drakes in PFS and that is the real shame. I do mean that sweeping statement - the earliest you can ride a flying Drake is 11 if you are small and neither you nor it will ever survive that long anyway, having given up all your class features.

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Makeitstop wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:

I must quibble with your first statement "It's a well-known fact that the drake archetypes are really bad."

I am not seeing many complaints on these boards. How are you justifying such a sweeping statement? ** spoiler omitted **

I've seen it discussed here and several other places, and every time it comes up, the consensus is that they are garbage. Sure, sometimes there will be a tiny minority that says it isn't so bad, but the vast majority have always found it to be disappointing.

Hell, the best defense I've ever seen of the drake archetypes is that they ought to be crap, because anything that cool would be too popular if you didn't make people pay dearly for it.

The fact is, the drake, as published, is inferior to an animal companion. And the archetypes give up half their class features for that inferior substitute.

I'm in absolute agreement, because I have one, a fellow player has a drake rider Cavalier in a current group and he is utterly useless.

Worse than that - he is a liability who does nothing but eat charges from the CLW wand. Much of my buffing has to go to him too. The only class feature he has remaining is his Order.

I'll send your suggestions to our GM. They are terrible, dreadful archetypes.

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It has puzzled me why only dwarves may be Stonelords. I'd allow Oreads without question. They are stated several times to be close to dwarves and they are made of rocks.

Having said that, the Dorn-Dergar does work very well.

Does Stonelords work with Stalwart Defender? Living Monilith?

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Haunted Fey Aspect.

Can negate 1hp damage, ever.

Shame, because the fluff is terrific. I'd let people roleplay it. If they were in a crowded supermarket or somewhere suddenly 'making you look and sound like a bizarre, insane fey creature.' has to be worth some intimidate bonus, or maybe a positive one against Fey?

Also they need to expand on exactly what a 'bizarre, insane Fey creature' looks like. It's very appealing.

Anyway, the spell is useless. Yes, it's only a cantrip, but that means you haven't memorized Detect Magic or Prestidifitation or Light or Acid Splash etc.

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Someone Necroed the thread because the topicwas on the subreddit yesterday.

In any case, Murdock is right, it's on the page before the Primal Hunter Barbarian Archetype in Ranged Tactics Toolbox. Though the picture is no Barbarian, she's Adowyn the Iconic Hunter.

Still a crap feat, mind. Don't take it

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Human Cleric of Sarenrae/Exalted of Sarenrae, and don't really bother with a weapon with those other three - Magus, Samurai and Slayer? Who needs more melee?

Good Wis, good Cha, channel and cast and let the others fight. Fire/Glory domains and pick up another domain with Exalted. You get your channel back with Exalted of Sarenrae. It's Carrion Crown, you already know you have to take down undead, be the best.

If you don't like Cleric, Bard/Ashavic Dancer will work and shock your GM.

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Ratfolk Rogue 1/ Wiz 3/ Arcane Trickster x

All the skills, all the Arcane, ideal for a Ratfolk, smart enough to pick up the tech stuff too.

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Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
ChaiGuy wrote:
Tears-to-Wine and Enhance Water are quite thematic and fun, especially for a follower of Caiden, but they aren't really as useful as create water or purify food and water, which are both at will cantrips compared to Tears-to-wine being a lv 1 or 2 spell or a level 1 Enhance Water.
LOL, you don't use Tears to Wine to not die of thirst, you use it for a +2/5/10 bonus on Perception, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, and all Knowledge skills that lasts for 10 min/level.

It affects a body of liquid too, so there is no real limit on number of people it benefits, certainly the whole party. If you are using research rules from Mummy's Mask or Intrigue your Bard or Investigator can cast it on the party and speedread the library.

It's a good spell, it has a couple of uses, it has flavour in more ways than one, it's only first level and it is exactly the sort of thing I'd like to boost the party when my caster has an abundance of 1st level slots. At high levels that can mean +10 to everyone's Perception for a couple of hours, for the price of a 1st slot. Yes please, keeping the party alive is good. And free booze.

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No. and while you are looking in that book, those Hex feats specifically don't work on Hexcrafter Magi either.

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Oh Alazni. You used to be so hot. Though it's true, many people could lose a few pounds.

Anyway - have we had Ghouls of Leng? A rare few can have nonevil alignments, those ones tend to only be interested in acquiring magical knowledge though. Even the evil ones can be negotiated with. Downside is they are from Leng and if you find yourself there, they are likely to be the best chance of allies in town.

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Lightning bolt is still okay for Witches as they get so few blasts but that one.

It's also an energy type which is seldom resisted by undead, the Achilles heel of Witches.

It is not a great spell, but it does its job when applied correctly and is situationally very useful. Witches also often pump their Int even more than most casters so their DCs are better. I can see why people don't like it, but it doesn't really deserve to be on the most worthless list, it isn't totally hopeless like Silk to Steel.

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Exactly that.

1/day. Can be dismissed as a Move action for the whole day at any time in those 1 to 10 minutes duration.

So pick your time to use it carefully (Clue, as a Crimson Templar of Ragathiel it will be when you are smiting some evildoer)

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