Counterfeit Mage

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graystone wrote:

To me, it reads that you can un-manifest it without worry since it's not carrying stuff. IMO, it's suggesting that it can't keep items when it vanishes. I don't think it's saying anything past that.

For instance, an Eidolon can provide a distraction, grabbing an item and running past some guards while the rogue sneaks past the guards. Once inside, the rogue un-manifest it, where it vanishes right in front of the guards [and drops the item] and the rogue can re-manifest it when needed.

Even better why use actions to unmanifest just have you or your Eidolon move so it's out of range then it auto unmanifests.

Spellswipe is lvl 8 and even without a good dual target spell is great for clearing out minions or supporting monsters. I love it with my Enlarged Gill hook wielding Inx Iron Dwarf Magus. I will often Blazing dive into position then activate my cascade for my opener getting me in position for sweet AoO's then start sweeping with my 15'reach.

So as far as I know EIDOLONs get to take a seperate exploration activity from their summoner. IE they can stealth wile the summoner scouts ect.

Now during downtime can an EIDOLON do an activity like earn income as long as it's able to do so within range of the summoner. Such as crafting or a service barkeeping singing/performance? Can the summoner effectively earn income twice?

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One of my favorite spells for "creativity" is shrink item. If I have a wizard able to cast this I will inevitably have a pouch of shrunken 600lbs stones to use in miscellaneous situations. Need a pressure plate held down. "Boulder" Need a quick barricade for a door "Boulders". Need cover from ranged enemies "Boulders". So many simple uses for big rocks and of you add 4th lvl shape stone to the mix you can have a pouch of 600lbs marbles/perfect blocks with very little difficulty and things start to get touchy.

Dubious Scholar wrote:

1) Yes, no reason to think you can't.

2-4) Debatable.

I lean towards them being a true separate creature, even if you have a shared HP pool, so I'd say yes. But you may have GMs who think that's too good and say no, so this won't have a consistent answer unless Paizo says something.

Which is why I am asking :-) It does seem a little too good but at the same time not broken ether.

So Questions

1: Can you use treat wounds on an Eidolon?

2: Does this count separately from the summoner ie do they now both need to wait 1 hour/10 mins before treated again?

3: If so can one use ward medic to treat both eidolon and the summoner at the same time healing them twice effectivly?

4: Does battle medicine work on them each separately?


Gaulin wrote:
Keep in mind that tendril strike is its own unique action too. So while it increases reach for that strike, it doesn't increase reach for something like, say, field of roots.

Oh I know and like I said I just realized that with AoO the lvl 7 ability really helps but it seems almost like it's the same thing as the lvl 1 ability so I want to make sure if they stack or not.

Ok I just realized one situation where it's better to have the reach trait and that's for AoO's. So it is an upgrade at lvl 7 for that specifically but if one didn't take that feat it could be useless if it doesn't stack with Tendril strike.

Ok I know the book is new but I think this needs a touch of clarification.

So Tendril strike allows for one action my Eidolon to make a strike with ether of it's attacks granting +5' reach. Ok that seems clear.

Growing vines (lvl7) gives all my Eidolon's melee unarmed attacks the reach trait.

Does this mean that my plant Eidolon can now do attacks at 15' using Tendril strike? or is Growing vines just useless? Or does Tendril strike do something different or have a limitation I am unaware of?

How is this all effected when I make my Eidolon large through a feat or spell?

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Ezekieru wrote:
Yes, but the fire damage would only be 4d6. The second 4d6 ray would essentially be wasted.

Until you get spellswipe at lvl 8.

Thx all for the extra options. I'm considering a dwarvin Magus and am tied on ether sustaining steel or slide casting. We are not using free archtype. I kinda want a familiar for RP reasons as the character is currently a wizard with familiar attunement and a big crafter. We are gonna be allowed to reincarnate when secrets of magic comes out so I'm working on Magus ideas. He will be about lvl 7-9 by that time. Currently My builds are identical stats(Base>Str18,Dex12,Con14,Wis12,Int14,Cha8)
Sustaining steel Magus
lvl1 Critter shape
lvl2 Witch dedication(Arcane)/Assurance Crafting
lvl3 Fleet/Expert Crafting
lvl4 basic witchcraft(Enhanced familiar)/Magical crafting
lvl5 Grater animal senses(Echolocation)/Expert Athletics
lvl6 Basic witch spellcasting/Titan wrestler
lvl7 Toughness/Master athletics
lvl8 spell swipe/skill feat?
lvl9 Hero's call or mtn's stoutness/ Master crafting

Slidecast Magus
lvl1 Critter shape
lvl2 Rogue Dedication/Assurance Crafting+Titan Wrestler
lvl3 Adopted ancestery Human/Expert Crafting
lvl4 Rogue Tricks(Mobility)/Magical crafting
lvl5 Natural ambition (Familiar)/Expert athletics
lvl6 Magus Martial caster
lvl7 fleet(Master Athletics)
lvl8 spell swipe/Skill feat?
lvl9 hero's call or mtn's stoutness/ Master crafting

Both are fairly similar but the sustaining will be more a tank with his extra temp hp and the slide caster will be much more mobile. Both will have med armor and use a single weapon likley with a shifting rune for flexibility. Any suggestions/comments/ideas?

I am working on a slidecaster magus concept and was wondering if there were any way to get Mobility (other than rogue dedication) or another feat that prevented AoO due to movement for a one handed weapon wielder at lower lvl than 10th?

I thought you become proficient in the listed weapons Axe, Warhammer and pick and dwarvin martial weapons become simple and adv become martial.

So just a quick question does bespell weapon(which adds a damage die of variable damage to the effected weapon) give an extra +2?

I think having consequences for excessive resting and timelimits are very important to a multi encounter day/setup/adventure.

If the portal you arrived through will close in 2 hours stranding you in enemy territory then you are gonna be very aware of time.

If you are in a harsh environment causing damage or some other effect like fatigued, or drained, or weakened ect. every 30 mins or every hour again players will step up their games.

If an important NPC is gonna die in exactly 3 days and it's a days travel to the tree of life through hostile territory this will effect how players rest.

Now the GM has to take these things into consideration when using them cause if they don't then they will kill their players but they can make things dynamic and fun for many adventures.

Learn a Spell:

"You can gain access to a new spell of your tradition from someone who knows that spell or from magical writing like a spellbook or scroll. If you can cast spells of multiple traditions, you can Learn a Spell of any of those traditions, but you must use the corresponding skill to do so. For example, if you were a cleric with the bard multiclass archetype, you couldn't use Religion to add an occult spell to your bardic spell repertoire."

So can a Wizard be taught a spell that is shared between divine and arcane lists by being taught by a cleric? For example can a cleric teach a wizard fear if the cleric has it prepared?

Can a bard teach a Witch or a Sorcerer teach a Cleric?

If the players have/know something that the opposition wants and through speaking to enemies during combat convay that I would consider stopping combat. Also surrender is a social way to end a combat even if the other side is just being set up. Who knows i very rarely tell my players no. I usually inform them of the diffucalty of a task and what they would need to do to accomplish it (if it something really difficult then multple rolls at least).

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Also casters have some of the greatest problem solving abilities in the game.

Need to carry several 10'x10' fragile statues over rough terrain with no wagons? Shrink item is your friend.

Need to patch a dam or reinforce a city for siege? Walls of stone are permanent.

Need to listen in on an important meeting inn another part of the castle? Clairaudience does the trick.

Want to leave some traps for enemies you know are following? Glyph of warding.

Theses are just a few examples and none of them are to far out of the box. Entire plots and be circumvented with intelligent spell use. Really no other "class" ability can do this as well.

Wile other non caster classes can do out of the box problem solving magic makes things happen for those who are not committed to just hulk smashing their way through life.

Thinking about it, The only issue I can find to prevent this is to stay flying the familiar has to use a move action and as it only has one extra action you would need another to "raise" it so no net gain. As a familiar it is still the object it was it just now has familiar stats. I just think it would be fun.

So I was just considering some of the silly things a Baba Yaga witch could take for a familiar and thought what if I had a steel sheild as a familiar.

With 3 abilitus I could take Flight(who dosent want a flying aheild), Independent( 1 free action every round), and well anything else but speech or tough would likely take the slot.

Now this said could my sheild familiar that is (holding onto my arm) take a free action to drop me ie let go, then take it,s free action to raise itself?

It for sure couldn't sheild block but you wouldnt want it to. Would you get the +2 ac for raised sheild or no?

Regular sheild use does no damage to it so it shouldnt take damage for being used this way.

Final edit sorry typeing from phone so apologies for typos ect.

The Raven Black wrote:

We need weapon cords back. If only to stop littering dungeons with dropped items.

Greener and sustainable adventuring demands it.

As long as you limit it to 1 or 2 and non weapons only I'm all for it.

Well the baba yaga witch can make an inanimate object their familiar. Sounds like a place to start.

I love the ego as affliction idea. I am gonna use this for sure :-)

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For one non weapon, item I would allow a player to suspend it from a short rope or sling allowing it to be drawn with one action and dropped(back to hanging/slung) as a free action.

Dwarf racial feat at 5th lvl gives greatet darkvision at the cost of being unable to cast/use items that have the darkness tag

dmerceless wrote:

I've been toying around with some fun builds lately and decided to share a couple here. This is the first one and probably my favorite. The class being used is Swashbuckler, and the main idea of the build is being a hybrid between a mid-range damage dealer and a party supporter by taking advantage of two very cool feats from the class: One For All and Flying Blade.

This is pretty short-ranged for a ranged build, but it compensates for that by doing a lot of damage compared to what an archer would, and also turning your other damage dealers into freaking monsters. If you like the idea of weapon throwing, which is usually not very well supported in most systems, and also throwing inspiring one-liners at your friends and quips at your enemies, you might really enjoy this build.

The build comes with a mini-guide explaining the choices and how to use it, so I'll put it in a separate document for ease of use:


I really like this. Until now I havent found swashbucklers that appealing but this looks fun.

Fun fact if you are worried about provokeing wile casting adjcent rasing a sheild gives you an intresting defencive option b4 casting and if you happen to have sheild block even better.

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So I was wondering if anyone had any advice on this build?
Leshy(Leaf) Fighter Barber


Feats: Risky Surgery, Grasping Reach, Sudden Charge

Skills: Athletics, Surgery Lore, Medicine, Nature, Stealth

Start with Chain mail, get full plate ASAP
Great Axe and a few javelins.

I'm thinking of going Cleric dedication at 2nd to get shield and light cantrips as well as Survival and religion. I'd also get battle medicine at 2nd lvl.

3rd lvl fleet and increase medicine to expert

4th lvl sweep fighter feat

Damage should be pretty good with d12 as a fighter and d10 with reach(grasping reach) I'd be a competent healer out of combat right out of the gate with a +6 medicine (+8 with risky surgery) and after 2nd I can even heal in combat if there is am emergency.

I think the concept of a tree that chops down people could be fun and as a "Barber" he can also trim/prune people as well (manscapeing anyone).

Are there any major holes in the build? Something I missed?

Also at 5th with Axe mastery if I use sweep and crit both targets how much damage do I do with a +1 striking great axe

is it 2d12+4 +2d12 for Sweep to both of them or just one of them or what? The extra +1 for sweep applys to both targets and with a fighter's high to hit there should be a good chance for crits.

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I am often in the group that forgets to give hero points so instead I usually give 2 at the beginning of each session and 3 if I know there is a "Boss" battle. The funny thing is now my players get super worried when I give them 3 Hero points lol sometimes I give them 3 just to mess with them :-)

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I would say CN at best with whims of both good and evil.

So base animal companion has 6+con mod xlvl plus base animal hp
Trained in Unarmed attacks, Unarmored def, Barding(up to +3), all saves,perception,acrobatics,athletics

Base stats as template/type

Mature gives +1 Str/Dex/Con/Wis
Expert Perception
Trained in Intimidate/Stealth/Survival (unless already trained then expert)
Med or small animal companions grow one size.

So for example a 9th lvl Wolf would look like this:

Hp:87 Speed 40 feet Size: Medium
Str:+3(16) Dex:+4(18) Con:+3(16) Int:-4(2) Wis:+2(14) Cha:+0(10)

Expert Perception +15 (Low light vision/Scent 30')
Expert Survival: +15
Trained Acrobatics: +15
Trained Athletics +14
Trained intimidation: +11
Trained Stealth: +15
AC (unarmored):25(lvl+Dex mod+Trained+10)
AC (+1 Light Barding) 26
Saves:Ref:+15 Fort:+14 Will:+13

Attacks Jaws(fenesse)->: +15 hit 2d8+3 Dmg

Support Benefit Your wolf tears tendons with each opening. Until the start of your next turn, your Strikes that damage creatures your wolf threatens give the target a –5-foot status penalty to its Speeds for 1 minute (–10 on a critical success).

Advanced Maneuver: Knockdown-> Single Action

Requirements The animal companion’s last action was a successful jaws Strike.The wolf automatically knocks the target of its jaws Strike prone.

I think a new feat should allow a 1/2 to hit bonus from str with thrown ranged weapons like how the propulsive allows 1/2 str bonus to damage with bows. It allows Str users to get a bit more accuracy from thrown weapons but dex users will still be king for ranges accuracy.

I think Shrink item spell with a little imagination could be one of the most anime things. Shrink "everything" shrunken items place in small breakable containers (like glass vials but sky's the limit with some imagination) The spell has an unlimited duration as long as the object is inside something. Smash rip toss to the ground ect to instantly have any thing you need at a moment's notice....Profit :-)

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If you could create a barrier or brace to block a passage or door.

You could make banners or decorations for an event

A mat to cover a pit trap (you could even make it proper colors like stone or rock colored)

Lots of rope

A temporary plug or patch for a leaky boat

at higher lvls then stone blocks

A replacement wheel for your wagon

If you have a solid time-frame you could turn a wagon you "fixed this way into a scary booby trap as the wheel or Wheels just vanish wile moving at high speeds.

If your GM allows you to dismiss your own spells with a duration even better for most of the above suggestions.

Ready make keys

I just thought this would be great for making a mold. It can be done quickly to do any shape required then filled with moltin/liquid meterial that can be solidified then poof after an hour of setting no muss or fuss to remove.

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jplukich wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
Why the buckler? You can combine unarmed attacks with an ordinary shield just fine.
In the example given the grab would involve the one hand. The next attacks would have to be shield bashes, not unarmed. It might be relevant.

Note: Unarmed does not have to be with fists you can use any body part therefore you can use a shield as much as you want with unarmed no sheild bashes needed.

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Most weapons don't use battle oracles but when they do they tend to be magical intelligent ones that are up to no good.... :-)

Thats why all spell casters who live in big cities can always earn income. You could even start a lucritive con casting ugly objects and then dispelling them for $$$. Only partly jokeing lol.

But inspire Competence should effect it right?

Also it gives the option for normal weapon damage or force damage. Options are good.

I like how any class "can" disable traps or be good at thevery wile rogues have specific feats and skill progression to make it easier. I love the Trapfinder feat it is a great example of how a rogue has an edge over most others doinf trapwork.

scrolls to boost spells per day several staves some great options wands as well for those 8h duration buffs.

Forbidding ward cantrip is a good start +1 ac and saves for a front liner you cast it on is no joke. Guide cantrip is decent for a one off per cambat.

I am not die hard trying to improve characters by stacking I am just making conversation mostly.

That said if I had a character ask this I would likely go with a little extra range and maby an additional +1(circumstance) to sent related perception checks just to not waste the granted ability.

On to another related subject that isn't talked nearly enough about.

What would it take? What lvl cost ect would you put on gaining a precise sense such as smell or hearing for a player?

What effect on the game would it have? Should it have a limited range like 30' or 60'?

There are plenty of characters with heightened senses such as blind marital arts masters or whatever.

Tremor sense: Touch
Echolocation: Sound
Scent: Smell/Taste

What lvl and how many feats or what lvl items would be needed to grant abilities to use precise versions of other senses?
Would they cause any major issues ingame?

Eg A player with precise hearing at 60' would basically ignore invisibility or any illusions that don't include sound. If the opponant dosen't have foil senses you could ignore stealth within that 60' range.

Would having these abilitys bring any disadvantages such as more damage from sonic attacks or having saves one category lower vs sonic?

I am mainly discussing having a second precise sense or maby a different one. I usually GM so this is mostly theory craft. Sent is still limited to 30' so its still not as versitile as vision.
Maby if a second instance of scent should give extra range ie add them together for a 60' range.

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I think an appropriately sized hamster wheel and a brightly colored ball would be the minimum investment needed to keep them "alive".

Also prison is an experience a scary one but it might be novel enough to keep a gnome going for quite a wile.

So I already know RAW If I took a heritage with imprecise scent then took the Feral background (which also gives imprecise scent, it wouldn't give me precise scent.

What I am asking is considering the treatment low light vision gets to stack and become Dark-vision in many instances would a character with precise scent be too op?

An Example would be a Hunting Catfolk with the Feral background. I also know they are uncommon and Rare choices respectfully but I am looking at how or if it would break the game to have a lvl 1 character with 2 precise senses.

And if you have the Ooze Empathy you could create a bunch of them and let them loose in your stronghold and they would likely not attack you or ppl with you :-)

There is a Catfolk feat that adds d4 poison to "claw" attacks so could you use that with Tiger Claw stance? Aalisamar also has a feat at 13th that adds "good" damage to strikes.

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It is good for characters who want mounts that are not animal companions just for the movement benefits wile travailing, having a mount that will fetch things or stay put when left or even defend itself is a good thing. Train a few guard dogs to watch the camp. (Obv if a creature of the party's lvl showed up the dogs are toast or will run away) There are RP reasons as well and it gives a reason to use nature to earn income training animals to sell.

For one bracers of armor have resilience rune built in ie +1 armor and saves. For another they are slightly less fragile vs the rare ability that destroys armor. Finally they are an ascetic choice for monks ect that want to show off their bodies :-)

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