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A few of the dates need to be updated. Some may not be the absolute most recent date, but they're at least that based on the newer content they have in their guides:
Alchemist
* PubAlchem -- Apr 2021
PubAlchem was updated on 8/7/21 (Fists of the Ruby Phoenix - Ready? Fight!), after AoN's update. I try to keep everything up to date :)
Also, just mentioning it, I'm working on a Talisman guide after discussing with a friend how annoying it was to search for good ones.
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The Miniature Compass, a sortable talisman guide.
discussion here.
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Found this WildShape Druid Guide on Reddit
Steel’s Guide to the Wild Shape Druid
Not mine but seems promising
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Found this WildShape Druid Guide on Reddit
Steel’s Guide to the Wild Shape Druid
Not mine but seems promising
Interesting guide. But be aware that quite of a few of his recommendations assume a fairly liberal GM interpretation of how Wild Shape works. He often points these out but also often fails to.
In fairness, there is SO much uncertainty in wild shape that it would be very time consuming to note all possible places where GM interpretation could hurt your build
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What started as a Reddit comment just wouldn't stop bouncing around in my head.
So, without further ado, I present to you all this shiny new Support Cleric Guide.
Have at it! If anybody notices anything that requires correction, feel free to message me.
What started as a Reddit comment just wouldn't stop bouncing around in my head.
So, without further ado, I present to you all this shiny new Support Cleric Guide.
Have at it! If anybody notices anything that requires correction, feel free to message me.
Really nice. I like the way you collate your information and say this is what works.
Thankyou.
Really nice. I like the way you collate your information and say this is what works.
Thankyou.
No problem! I kinda just had to get it out or my productivity was going to tank.
Thanks for the feedback! I absolutely love your spell guide, btw. It’s the first thing I throw at people trying to run their first caster.
What started as a Reddit comment just wouldn't stop bouncing around in my head.
So, without further ado, I present to you all this shiny new Support Cleric Guide.
Have at it! If anybody notices anything that requires correction, feel free to message me.
I really love the presentation style. This is probably the best presented guide I've read to date. Great job!
Sidenote, I really liked the way you showed skills, their main utilities and key feats. I would enjoy a table like that for all skills in the game. Seems like a great thing to send a new player struggling to pick skills and skill feats.
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What started as a Reddit comment just wouldn't stop bouncing around in my head.
So, without further ado, I present to you all this shiny new Support Cleric Guide.
Have at it! If anybody notices anything that requires correction, feel free to message me.
Nice guide, agree with all others that it's well presented.
Maybe open a separate topic for this, for comments, discussions, etc.
What started as a Reddit comment just wouldn't stop bouncing around in my head.
So, without further ado, I present to you all this shiny new Support Cleric Guide.
Have at it! If anybody notices anything that requires correction, feel free to message me.
Really nice. I like the way you collate your information and say this is what works.
Thankyou.
Short and to the point . . . but no Dwarf?
A few of the dates need to be updated. Some may not be the absolute most recent date, but they're at least that based on the newer content they have in their guides:
Alchemist
* Exocists's Guide -- Jul 2021
* RPGBOT -- Sep 2020
* PubAlchem -- Apr 2021Barbarian
* Gortle's -- Mar 2021
* RPGBOT -- Sep 2020Champion
* Definitive -- Dec 2020Druid
* Gortle's -- Mar 2021Fighter
* Tarondor's Guide -- Sep 2020
* RPGBOT -- Nov 2020Investigator
* Filling in the gaps -- Apr 2021Monk
* RPGBOT -- Nov 2020Rogue
* Tarondor's Guide -- Oct 2020Sorcerer
* Gortle's -- Mar 2021Wizard
* Tarondor's Guide -- Apr 2021
* Principia Arcana -- Oct 2020
* RPGBOT -- May 2021It's also worth noting that in general RPGBOT has updated quite extensively. More ancestries and all classes now: https://rpgbot.net/p2/characters/
I see that the Support Cleric guide was added, but these dates still aren't updated.
Two months later and the dates still aren't updated even though there are a couple new guides. Doesn't seem worth my time to help and check if anyone of those have updated since my last post. :/
Another Investigator Guide
I also not that Zenith has a couple of Inventor Guides, a Magus and a Summoner Guide too that haven't been mentioned here.
There are some differences in what is in the other class guide list too.
Tarondor's Guide to the Pathfinder Second Edition Wizard was updated in December 2021.
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Another Investigator Guide
I also not that Zenith has a couple of Inventor Guides, a Magus and a Summoner Guide too that haven't been mentioned here.
There are some differences in what is in the other class guide list too.
That Investigator guide is on Zenith's list already, as well as the Magus and Summoner guides (not all guides that appear there will necessarily be mentioned in this accompanying discussion thread). Although I hadn't seen that Investigator guide before, so maybe it just appeared (whereas the Magus and Summoner guides appeared not too long after Secrets of Magic came out), so thanks for pointing it out. That Ancestry list is LONG! Makes me think we need an updated Ancestry guide . . . except then I went to the most recent one, which is Gortle's Ancestry Guide, and I saw that it was updated for Guns & Gears, even though the Guide to the Guides says it was updated in March 2021.
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Yes. I have often be pleasantly surprised by the guides being updated with more recent material than what the guide to guides suggested.
Really big thanks to all of you for these wonderful guides. I do not always agree with the ratings, but they make for an excellent springboard. And I just can't imagine the hours you spent on those.
Tarondor's Guide to the Pathfinder Second Edition Wizard was updated in December 2021.
Looking forward to your next fighter guide:)
Well…I just discovered this thread…really great stuff here! Thanks to all for creating/contributing and collecting this info!
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except then I went to the most recent one, which is Gortle's Ancestry Guide, and I saw that it was updated for Guns & Gears, even though the Guide to the Guides says it was updated in March 2021.
I update my guides regularily. Its ad hoc, whenever I discover something interesting. It can be as often as weekly. But I can't be bother hitting up this list to tell people every time. None of my guides are the same as they were originally they all have a lot more content. Many of the recommendations have changed.
Even so I'm not across all the new archetypes or the Gunslinger/Inventor classes properley yet. Paizo continue to release a lot of new content, very quickly.
The spell guide has been the most work of late, there was just so much stuff in Secrets of Magic. But where it says any of my guides where last updated prior to Dec 2021, its wrong.
What I really would really like to see is a set of builds. A list of one for each sub class, one for each for a fighters fighting style archer /two handed /shield /two weapon, and one for each archetype in the game.
Which is probably ~150 builds....
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What I would love is a guide (or guides) for PFS2 characters. Taking into account that most PCs there rarely reach 8th level, if ever.
All the current guides tend to optimize your high level character. Much of their advice does not really apply for PFS2 characters.
What I would love is a guide (or guides) for PFS2 characters. Taking into account that most PCs there rarely reach 8th level, if ever.
All the current guides tend to optimize your high level character. Much of their advice does not really apply for PFS2 characters.
Not a PFS player nor a low level conoisseur but this would be incredibly useful for many groups and individuals I know.
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With the introduction of Level 1-10 APs, a lower level guide would be useful to those players as well.
What I would love is a guide (or guides) for PFS2 characters. Taking into account that most PCs there rarely reach 8th level, if ever.
All the current guides tend to optimize your high level character. Much of their advice does not really apply for PFS2 characters.
None of the builds in my guides are bad at low levels. Yes they all improve as they level but that is just the nature of adding more feats as you level, the combined effects stack up. The reality is levels 4, 6 and 8 are important power levels for most builds. Though for casters it is still the spell levels 3,5,7,9... Just because some of them explode in power at level 14 or 16, doesn't mean they aren't any good before then.
But I agree in that a list of builds that come together by level 4 would be great.
Double Slice Fighter comes together at lv. 1 though.
(Start with a shield as your off-hand weapon and take it from there.)
What, exactly, does "comes together" mean?
What, exactly, does "comes together" mean?
Not that I am an expert, but I believe he means a Dexterity 15, Strength +something fighter. As the PC gets 3 feats, take Two Weapon Fighting, Double Slice, depending on where you want to go, either Weapon Focus in your primary weapon, such as long sword, or Weapon Finesse and use short sword or rapier.
Personally I would go Ranger and take the Weapon and Shield Combat style if that is what you would like, and pump up strength as well as taking double slice as soon as you can.
YMMV....
What, exactly, does "comes together" mean?Not that I am an expert, but I believe he means a Dexterity 15, Strength +something fighter. As the PC gets 3 feats, take Two Weapon Fighting, Double Slice, depending on where you want to go, either Weapon Focus in your primary weapon, such as long sword, or Weapon Finesse and use short sword or rapier.
Personally I would go Ranger and take the Weapon and Shield Combat style if that is what you would like, and pump up strength as well as taking double slice as soon as you can.
YMMV....
Are you using PF1 as an example? Making a joke? Or in the wrong forum?
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As for "come together", I think PF2's in a much different place than PF1 where it might take awhile to get one's abilities in sync enough to do viable damage and/or shut down one's enemies. For example, I had a Shaman w/ abilities based around Fireball, so he exploded in power at 5th and really took off at 7th (w/ more slots and metamagic). I'd known my fellow powergamers could carry me to that point (and I did contribute in other ways as well).
I think nearly all PF2 PCs w/ an 18 in their offense already meet the standards for offense, though since PF2 requires a more balanced PC than PF1 (where pure offense could win the day) that might not be enough.
A two-weapon style PC in PF2 functions fine at 1st level, either w/ Fighter or Ranger. Double Slice is one example of an ability that gets your PC to the top of the damage curve right off the bat. That's one reason there's little feat support for it until much later. If one of those weapons is a shield (especially for Fighter because of Shield Block) then that also keeps their defense strong. Add on a decent Will (and/or some of those Ancestry feats that aid Will), one's best AC (which both can achieve), and some non-combat contribution/utility and they're a strong contributor to the party.
Meanwhile, a one-handed weapon build might take a bit longer to acquire its defense, bread-n'-butter attacks, and tricks that make having a free hand worthwhile. Or maybe they went Dex Fighter and won't feel they're doing enough damage until they get that Str to 18 or some good buffs/debuffs w/ their attacks.
Not that they'll be a slouch unless going against the grain or trying to do too many things (i.e. watering down one's stats) it's hard to be dysfunctional. Which is to say some builds might not blossom until 5th because they need that stat boost to beef up their. And others, like an Eldritch Archer, might have to wait longer. They really should be functional anyway before that, but the player's vision for the PC might take awhile to gel.
One common example though of a PC that "comes together" after 1st is the Cloistered Cleric/MCD Champion who can be vulnerable as they wait to hit 2nd and get their heavy armor. This is truer if they have a low Dex (knowing they'll have heavy armor later) and points in Str (rather than in defense). Once they get full plate w/ Bulwark, it's a much different PC.
What, exactly, does "comes together" mean?Not that I am an expert, but I believe he means a Dexterity 15, Strength +something fighter. As the PC gets 3 feats, take Two Weapon Fighting, Double Slice, depending on where you want to go, either Weapon Focus in your primary weapon, such as long sword, or Weapon Finesse and use short sword or rapier.
Personally I would go Ranger and take the Weapon and Shield Combat style if that is what you would like, and pump up strength as well as taking double slice as soon as you can.
YMMV....
Think you might be in the wrong edition there buddy.
Oops... Forgot this was a 2E forum. My bad....
What, exactly, does "comes together" mean?
Probably that if you are a Double Slice fighter that will be most of your rounds for 20 levels. Every player I've seen take Double Slice tries to do it every round and every other feat that doesn't add on to Double Slice becomes mostly irrelevant.
What, exactly, does "comes together" mean?Probably that if you are a Double Slice fighter that will be most of your rounds for 20 levels. Every player I've seen take Double Slice tries to do it every round and every other feat that doesn't add on to Double Slice becomes mostly irrelevant.
Same thing with Power Attack I find.
Same thing with Power Attack I find.What, exactly, does "comes together" mean?Probably that if you are a Double Slice fighter that will be most of your rounds for 20 levels. Every player I've seen take Double Slice tries to do it every round and every other feat that doesn't add on to Double Slice becomes mostly irrelevant.
I was thinking this as well until you get a Greater Striking Weapon. Then it's better to swing with the weapon and start using other feats. I also found with a big weapon Knockdown is really nice. You can do a nice knockdown build in PF2.
I wish there were a few more feats to build over the top of Power Attack and especially Double Slice. There was really no point where Double Slice wasn't ideal to use. And another thing we found with the two action attacks is they are super limiting due to have to move to new targets.
I started to appreciation the monk more as over the levels movement became such a big part of the game and Flurry of Blows is one of the best action economy abilities a martial can get.
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What I would love is a guide (or guides) for PFS2 characters. Taking into account that most PCs there rarely reach 8th level, if ever.
All the current guides tend to optimize your high level character. Much of their advice does not really apply for PFS2 characters.
Sounds like a project -you- should take on!
Don't know if its fitting for your guide to guides but I compiled this:
Pathfinder 2nd edition compendium of published settlements stat block (and some homebrew).
What I would love is a guide (or guides) for PFS2 characters. Taking into account that most PCs there rarely reach 8th level, if ever.
...
That's interesting. As I recall, one of the design goals for PF2 was to flatten out the power curves of classes so that higher level play was more manageable. I would have expected that to result in PFS allowing higher level PCs.
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That's interesting. As I recall, one of the design goals for PF2 was to flatten out the power curves of classes so that higher level play was more manageable. I would have expected that to result in PFS allowing higher level PCs.What I would love is a guide (or guides) for PFS2 characters. Taking into account that most PCs there rarely reach 8th level, if ever.
...
The problem lies in the number of scenarios you need to play with a specific PC to get them to higher levels. And that scenarios are written for a given level range. So you have more scenarios for the lower level ranges and much less for the higher level ranges.
But you still need to play the same number of scenarios to increase your level :-(
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That's interesting. As I recall, one of the design goals for PF2 was to flatten out the power curves of classes so that higher level play was more manageable. I would have expected that to result in PFS allowing higher level PCs.What I would love is a guide (or guides) for PFS2 characters. Taking into account that most PCs there rarely reach 8th level, if ever.
...The problem lies in the number of scenarios you need to play with a specific PC to get them to higher levels. And that scenarios are written for a given level range. So you have more scenarios for the lower level ranges and much less for the higher level ranges.
But you still need to play the same number of scenarios to increase your level :-(
Not just that. You also need to have fellow players who also have high-level characters to run with you, and a GM who's willing to run the game for the aforementioned high-level characters.
To me, "come together" is when your character's central conceit starts actually working in a meaningful way. As an example, if you want to play an alchemist that's all about exploiting the benefits of at-will bombs... well, you don't even get bombs at-will until level 7. If your whole idea is based around Whirling Throw to move the enemy around the room plus a friend with Wall of Fire to throw the enemy into/through, then you wont' get the throw until lvl 6, and they wont' get the spell until lvl 7. If you want a Ranger who plays around with quick traps, they don't get that until Snare Specialist at lvl 4 (though you can get it as early as level 2 if you're willing to archetype into Snarecrafter for it). If the Really Shiny Combo that your concept is built around requires a level 12 feat... then your character doesn't really come together until level 12.
This was something that was a much bigger issue in 3.x/PF1 than it is in PF2, but it's still a thing.
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Double Slice Fighter comes together at lv. 1 though.
(Start with a shield as your off-hand weapon and take it from there.)
Double Slice doesn't work with a shield for a Fighter. You need to use the same weapon types in both hands if you want to benefit from the Fighter proficiency.
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That's interesting. As I recall, one of the design goals for PF2 was to flatten out the power curves of classes so that higher level play was more manageable. I would have expected that to result in PFS allowing higher level PCs.What I would love is a guide (or guides) for PFS2 characters. Taking into account that most PCs there rarely reach 8th level, if ever.
...The problem lies in the number of scenarios you need to play with a specific PC to get them to higher levels. And that scenarios are written for a given level range. So you have more scenarios for the lower level ranges and much less for the higher level ranges.
But you still need to play the same number of scenarios to increase your level :-(
Not just that. You also need to have fellow players who also have high-level characters to run with you, and a GM who's willing to run the game for the aforementioned high-level characters.
To me, "come together" is when your character's central conceit starts actually working in a meaningful way. As an example, if you want to play an alchemist that's all about exploiting the benefits of at-will bombs... well, you don't even get bombs at-will until level 7. If your whole idea is based around Whirling Throw to move the enemy around the room plus a friend with Wall of Fire to throw the enemy into/through, then you wont' get the throw until lvl 6, and they wont' get the spell until lvl 7. If you want a Ranger who plays around with quick traps, they don't get that until Snare Specialist at lvl 4 (though you can get it as early as level 2 if you're willing to archetype into Snarecrafter for it). If the Really Shiny Combo that your concept is built around requires a level 12 feat... then your character doesn't really come together until level 12.
This was something that was a much bigger issue in 3.x/PF1 than it is in PF2, but it's still a thing.
Quite right. My Identify-them-all RK-focused Investigator concept only really works when getting Bestiary Scholar. Which is a level 10 feat.
So, not a PFS build.
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Double Slice doesn't work with a shield for a Fighter. You need to use the same weapon types in both hands if you want to benefit from the Fighter proficiency.Double Slice Fighter comes together at lv. 1 though.
(Start with a shield as your off-hand weapon and take it from there.)
It's things like this which people overlook when praising Fighters, though note there are ways around this such as using another shield (giving you twice the pool of blocking hit points), using an Unarmed Attack (which does have a nice crit effect), or using an Ancestry feat for weapons which match your highest proficiency (not cheap, but it unlocks good switch-hitting possibilities).
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The problem lies in the number of scenarios you need to play with a specific PC to get them to higher levels.
I think the main problem is that PFS material reward a different type of build than non-PFS material.
PFS combat is relatively easy. Combats are usually Low/Moderate and Severe encounters are usually ones where characters can nova (e.g., they can rest before a final boss). Squeezing every ounce of physical damage is not valued at the high end (that is, although you need to build a pretty good fighter, a pretty good fighter is almost as valuable as a very good fighter). Adventuring days are much shorter relative to the APs/Adventures.
PFS has a lot more rewards gated behind skill challenges. There are far more rewards gated behind group successes, where N/2 or N/2+1 party members have to succeed. This means that those Trained (+3) skills are dispropotionately valuable - in a party there will be 1-2 with +7 that "should" succeed and 1-2 with +0 that "shouldn't" succeed so the make-or-break skill ranks are the ones in the middle.
At least 1 Treasure Bundle is gated behind a Critical Success on a random skill check. (I think it was acknowledged as a design flaw so I don't know how common it will be going forward.)
PFS scenarios also disfavor overland travel and outdoor tracking. With the exception of 1-2 scenarios, all those foraging and cover-your-tracks feats are useless. Urban backgrounds are far more useful than rural ones.
Prepared spellcasters can really get the shaft, many GMs require a character to prepare spells before the scenario so tough noogies if you don't guess correctly. Very GM-dependent though.
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All this is to say I think a PFS-specific guide would be yuge. :)
Double Slice doesn't work with a shield for a Fighter. You need to use the same weapon types in both hands if you want to benefit from the Fighter proficiency.Double Slice Fighter comes together at lv. 1 though.
(Start with a shield as your off-hand weapon and take it from there.)
What do you mean 'it does not work'? It does work, just not at full attack bonus.
1st strike shield bash is at -2, 2nd strike with your agile Fighter weapon (short sword for example) is at full attack bonus.
And what if you Double Slice with a non-agile main weapon? Then you are either at -2/-2 or +0/-4 for your attacks. Gee, looks a lot like a normal 2-strike routine with an agile weapon, doesn't it.
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Double Slice doesn't work with a shield for a Fighter. You need to use the same weapon types in both hands if you want to benefit from the Fighter proficiency.Double Slice Fighter comes together at lv. 1 though.
(Start with a shield as your off-hand weapon and take it from there.)
What do you mean 'it does not work'? It does work, just not at full attack bonus.
1st strike shield bash is at -2, 2nd strike with your agile Fighter weapon (short sword for example) is at full attack bonus.
And what if you Double Slice with a non-agile main weapon? Then you are either at -2/-2 or +0/-4 for your attacks. Gee, looks a lot like a normal 2-strike routine with an agile weapon, doesn't it.
Note that a shield is not a weapon (and neither is shield bash), so it cannot be used with Double slice because "Requirements You are wielding two melee weapons, each in a different hand."
Shield Boss and Shield Spikes are weapons however.
Double Slice doesn't work with a shield for a Fighter. You need to use the same weapon types in both hands if you want to benefit from the Fighter proficiency.Double Slice Fighter comes together at lv. 1 though.
(Start with a shield as your off-hand weapon and take it from there.)
What do you mean 'it does not work'? It does work, just not at full attack bonus.
1st strike shield bash is at -2, 2nd strike with your agile Fighter weapon (short sword for example) is at full attack bonus.
And what if you Double Slice with a non-agile main weapon? Then you are either at -2/-2 or +0/-4 for your attacks. Gee, looks a lot like a normal 2-strike routine with an agile weapon, doesn't it.
By doesn't work, I mean that you should not grab Double Slice if you intend to use a shield (before level 19). You'll deal similar damage by grabbing a d8 one handed weapon and just Strike twice with it. So you should just don't bother taking a useless feat.