Captain Morgan wrote:
Exactly. It's not difficult for a bard to use 3 actions, 4 even. That doesn't leave much room for rogue actions. Yet another useful 3rd action, I'd almost say. Certainly not bad to have a strike with sneak as that 3rd action, but that sure won't be something you'll use every turn.
I've played a fighter/cloistered cleric. Smite becomes really strong, if you add a cleric with true strike it's really strong.
A bard/rogue is a very useful combination and is very strong in social event, but not much more in combat. You can choose to buff or fight in combat, but both as a bard or as arogue you need your actions.
Not do fighter in a dual class will do much to help. Also martial/martial (flurry ranger/rogue...) should not be allowed. Otherwise, playing the DC characters was fun.
And there is even a talisman that can give you sweep so indeed, hammers are better. Or kukris for the trip , dogslicers for the damage, sawtooths also.
But in the end the differences are small. Just go with what you want.
Btw, until you actually need 2x agile (for sneak, or lvl 18 imposs flurry) you can just use a d8 normal weapon and an agile weapon for the second attack. Warhammer plus light hammer with returning on the LH.
Super strong indeed, but for RP purposes having a FP char walk around normally is also very nice. The char is also a dual wielding ranger, but also a very good medic who works in a hospital sometimes. Walking around normally is a big plus, no more armor or weapons visible. Until a fight starts and all of a sudden the harmless bystander is suddenly a metal played blender.
You might want to check soulforger, which is super useful. Summon and dismiss weapons/armor anytime, way better than QuickDraw for dual wielders. And the powers aren't bad either (once per day).
You're already going for Monster hunter, that would have been my next advice.
L12 look at double prey. Very useful for hatchet wielders due to sweep. Get a +1 circumstance bonus if you attack a second target with the same weapon.
If you're considering keen icm with true strike, doing it for the second attack is much better than for the first attack, because keen adds little to the first attack, where a 19 can be a crit already.
But spell strike is 2 actions already, so the answer would be that keen is not the most effective rune for true strike / spell strike combo.
It's a nice overview, but to actually mean anything you should add why you come to these values, and also which variant of the class you're looking at for these values. Not all barbs do the same damage, same as rogues, same with rangers.
Edit: I missed your post where you mentioned to explain the ranking. Would be very useful indeed. I would love to see how a champion would do more damage than a two-weapon flurry ranger.
Edit 2: I agree with what I saw elsewhere about tiers also being defined by level. low level play can be a lot different than high level play, on all fronts.
I consider spell attacks spells part of a casters play, and whether you want to use them or not is up to the player. My 14th lvl bard has only one spell attack spell (biting words) but it is a signature spell. She has a shadow signet and a staff of divination (useful both in combat and out of combat). Which spell and levels to use depends totally on the situation and using biting words certainly has its uses. It helps that you get 3 attacks with one 7th level spell, with the second and third attack using only one action (bard are king of one action actions).
In short: part of the game, use it or not, but it has it's uses, with or without true strike (although it helps of course).
Captain Morgan wrote:
The best is probably double slice into twin takedown. Double Slice doesn't have flourish, right? Not sure why this is an either/or thing.
This is indeed the main advantage, get 4 attacks in at 0, 0, -4, -4 (DS, TT) which is a bit better than 0, -2, -4, -4 when doing TT followed by two strikes.
Whether the extra Mapless attack is worth the feats depends on what else you gain from the archetype.
Pre-errata AC (nimble: bird) had no problem surviving. Flanker mostly. Went wrong twice at lvl 13 (weakest level for AC) due to wrong positioning. Bird got sandwiched and was gone in a round. But otherwise, with healing available it never went wrong.
With the new errata, a nimble AC will still be OK, but you'd need to be more careful. Not sure I'd still want to play one. Maybe on a char that would optimally use it (flurry ranger not being the best char for an AC).
I would have preferred a solution where the nimble AC would have stayed as is and the other would have been made stronger. Adding expert/master armor for example. Having comparable or better AC AC to casters is not bad, given the limited options for ACs.
Extradimensional Storage: The armament is stored in an extradimensional space when not in use, and you can Manifest it to summon it into your hands or onto your body. A soulforged armament can be Dropped, Disarmed, or otherwise removed from you, but its soulforged abilities don't function for anyone else, and you can Dismiss the manifestation to return the items to the extradimensional space no matter where the items are. If you die or choose to pass ownership of a soulforged armament to a successor, it loses any soulforged abilities; violating the spirit of the soulforged bond by selling the item tends to have disastrous results. There might be special techniques or rituals by which a determined foe can break your bond with a soulforged item, but otherwise, your ability to Dismiss and Manifest it essentially means it can't be stolen.
I think the above implies that Manifesting is actually retrieving it from this extra dimensional storage. So dismiss/manifest needed.
But I agree extra clarity could be useful. Simple line mentioning manifest is only possible from the ED storage.
When you Manifest Soulforged Armament, you can summon any number of your armaments (you must meet the Requirements for each), and when you Dismiss the effect, you can choose to Dismiss some and not others. You can choose to manifest the essence form of any number of your armaments when you take the action. Each armament can manifest its essence form only once per day.
The above part of the rules disagrees with your remark, I would say. When you take the action of manifesting your armament you can choose to manifest the essence form. And to manifest, you need to have your hands free and/or no armor.
The Raven Black wrote:
Well. It was fun while it lasted :-D
I had already replaced my whip with a staff on my linguist bard for a shadow signet assisted true strike biting words, but it was fun. Also for the primal witch who used my whip for some searing light flankin attacks on synesthesia-ed enemies while blessed...
The good old times.
I've chosen planar pain, planar bond and healing grace on my flurry ranger. I've not used them much yet (retrained beastmaster for soul forger @14th level), but in the last extreme encounter two of the three were very useful. Dismissing and manifesting isn't fun, but the added extras are worth the trouble.
Biting words, my favorite 1st level spell (signature) on my bard. Damage is not too bad, but the follow up actions are truly terrific. One action to do the same damage again on following rounds, which works very good with all the other single actions of a bard. Or add true strike from a transmutation staff. Shadow signet helps.
For fun. We actually write stories on all sessions, and would be fun to add details like "this was a very unlucky day for <insert name>. Something was off, and .... ".
Most important rolls are memorable anyway, as a ranger twice in one session disrupting a L+3 boss who tried an interact (nat 20), thereby preventing that boss from being able to leave (and thus die ;-). Or the rogue, using social skills, twice succeeding with a nat 20 in different sessions to influence the story. But this trackin could add extra some flavor.
Lost omens: Legends indeed. The character travelled all the way to Azir to get access to speak to Kassi Aziril (Ok, travelling is easy at 14th level...). He is already a well known medic in Taldor. Paragon Battle medicine was the main reason.
Herbalist dedication replaces artisan tools with healing tools, for the same items, so there is already something somilar in the game.
Thanks for your answers.
I take it this means you also don't need the alchemical or magical crafting feats to create any of the above items. Have the recepies and you're good to go.
Not sure why te comparison is with a str AC (bear) instead of a dex AC (wolf, bird) and a flurry ranger when a precision ranger would be better for damage of the Animal.
AC 38 -> 45
Attack and defense-wise, the dex AC is better than the construct (only the first attack is interesting anyways and that is better for the AC).
It's the other things you'd want a construct for, in combat stats, the dex AC is just better.
I agree that perfect finisher is the must take feat. Deadly grace could be skipped. But with a swashbuckler having at worst a 1 in 5 chance of a crit (19%, OK) against any boss, which is better than other martials, due to the "keen true strike", you should target to crit as often as possible, including against on level or lower monsters, which will still have loads of HP. Deadly grace add 2 or 3 extra dice to those crits. Not too bad. Works best for the "finisher every round" builds of course. Those builds should also target to have as many extra damage damage dies as possible (damage runes, sneak).
A soulforger swashbuckler, harming malice for an extra die, planar pain to convert all precision/physical damage to another type, against those precision immune creatures. Healing grace for some fast healing.
Wasn't it written somewhere if something was too good to be true, it probably isn't. This feels like something similar, but reversed. It's unplayable if you take RAW.
Marks comment didn't strike me as he actually knew what the question really was about, or the implications. He just checked the literal text.
Even RAW, the wild druid isn't bad, because the druid isn't bad. But it doesn't make sense indeed.
Hence my conclusion that it's not meant to be used this way. I've remarked on it before, but if you choose to use your own unarmed attack modifier, whether higher or lower, you should use the +2. With "choose" to be read essentially as is for the focus spell, not referring to the spells of the shapes used.
Makes sense for a wild shape druid. Makes no sense for a martial taking the druid archetype, but that is a simple fix, it should be druid only.
Godless healing is the recipient version. More logical indeed.
Fishing for an explanation: The doctor is so good that (s)he knows exactly what the safe amount is to shoot into the patient in shorter intervals.
Yes that is the basic comparison. But with additional attacks, damage starts to count with extra (status) damage and dice. Haste works better for the ranger. Extra damage and extra dice work better for the ranger. Switch hitting works better for the ranger. And hunt prey isn't a combat action, so you can get into combat with a prey, or later on you have feats like double prey, which becomes even better with master monster hunter.
At lvl 17 & 18, if you ever get so high, the difference becomes bigger.
The flurry ranger is indeed very good. Depending on party composition it can be devastating. Things to look out for with a flurry ranger: dogslicers or sawtooths. Extra status damage (stoke the heart), extra damage from runes, sneak attack, feats like double prey (less actions lost), further lowering of MAP (sweep: tiger menuki, bards, heroism). They really start to shine @L10, when you can get the second damage rune.
Combine a flurry ranger with a (dual wielding) rogue for awesome damage with shared prey.
I actually like the combination of Bless and Circle of Protection on my bard, in combination with Dirge of Doom. I've thought about Marshal, to replace the bless.
I'm not to concerned about being close to the martials, that is fine. With the extra buffs, the bard is just an extra target with a decent AC, and we have a Liberator in the party, preventing damage and the option to step away after a first attack. With the Guardian Deflection reaction from Swashbuckler, it's useful to be close to martials without another circumstance bonus.
To go for Marshal: @lvl10, max CHA, max Dipl, +2 skill item, standard DC is 27, you need to roll a 4 for a success, and a 14 for a crit. Not to bad.
Diplomacy is actually the main skill for my bard. I didn't go for Marshal, as the bless can do the same. Also, there isn't always time to spend the extra action on a double buff. CoP @lvl4 has the advantage of lasting an hour. Thinking of retraining into it, but that if more for RP purposes.
So it's certainly a very valid option, even for a bard who has lots of other buffs and action to perform.
So I've actually got to use the spell ingame, casting it for the full two rounds. Two targets. A bit over average damage @6th level. But the investment is high. Haste cast the round before casting IRT, to reposition if needed. One save, one fail. So around 160 damage. Not sure if that is worth the investment for three rounds.
I don't think this spells needs to be changed. Reducing the damage will mean it won't be used, I think.
The Raven Black wrote:
Indeed. One for All is almost worth the swashbuckler ded alone. But guardians deflectiom adds a nice defensive reaction on top of that, for a bard not afraid to stay close to the front. Combine with a whip for maximized effect.
@DonKalleOne: I meant Bless, as a first level spell, stays effective, no need to heighten it as with lots of other spells. A spontaneous caster needs signature spells, but also non-signature spells that can be used on their own level. Bless, Command, hideous laughter, etc.
Playing bard @12 now, and I never use Inspire Courage. Neither do I have Inspire Heroics (which only works with Insp Courage/Defense, not with Dirge). Dirge is my main tool, followed by Insp. defense, and Lingering is often used for action economy. Heroics is a waste in my opinion.
Bless is good and will stay good, no need to heighten it later on. Bards should not be afraid to get hit, they have HP and AC is pretty good. Bless, Circle of Protection and Dirge of Doom together can be an awesome boost (add Synesthesia where needed).
As for Marshal, that can be very useful. But the Aura is also small, so there is not much difference with Bless. And you need to invest in diplomacy a lot. If you want Marshal just for the Aura, not sure if that is worth it.
A caster dedication can be useful for those spells that don't require heightening. If you choose the occult list, they can be offensively used, if you choose another list, there is little sense using it offensively. So that would mean buffs and heals. The cost is high, for those extra spells, In my opinion. There are a lot of very nice dedication a bard can use. Swashbuckler, dandy, linguist, champion. MOst of them are more useful than a caster dedication. A bard has enough spells, and a lot of other action that can be done when not casting. Believe me, you can use 5 actions per round if you want.