Applied_People's page

Drow...do not have black skin on Golarion.

I was curious about this. Here's what I discovered.

The page on AoN for 1st edition playable drow says: "Drow skin ranges from coal black to a dusky purple."

On the other hand, the page for NPC drow on the AoN 2nd edition page says: "their flesh adopted an unearthly lavender sheen that made the drow instantly recognizable."

In the 1e book Into the Darklands, drow skin is described as "as dark as their hearts," and the art on that page shows a very dark skinned priestess.

Conclusion: Inconclusive.

Maybe the shift in 2e language is a stealth retcon for some reason.

It's been a year and a half. My favorites above are Red Griffyn's Dual Shield Wielding Orc Animal Barbarian and PossibleCabbage's Dwarven Mountain Stance Monk with Living Monolith FA.

But can we now do any better on Hard to Kill (but still a threat!) builds?

Feel free to use Free Archetype!

I like the idea of a grippli hydrokineticist.

And a hobbit...er...halfling wood kineticist that delights in using her powers to create a wooden menagerie of tiny, minutely detailed magical creatures in her downtime. Felicia Pickleweed, I think I'll name her.

I also have an idea for a metal kineticist inspired by the Steel Inquisitors of the Mistborn series: an Orc whose powers are derived from the metal spikes impaling his body...they may or may not worship Zon-Kuthon. Another level, another spike through the 'ol brainpan.

Or a metal kineticist inspired by the kandra from the Mistborn series: this one also uses the spike thing for flavor but I'd use the upcoming Ooze ancestry from the current Battlezoo Kickstarter. Kandra have such great names...FhorKood, Paalm, TenSoon.

I'd say Monks have the most of what I'll call agency. They have the mobility to go where they want, the defenses to remain there if they wish, and the free hands to Interact/maneuver as needed.

...
Monks don't have good speed, they have the best speed, speed so far ahead it strains other builds to catch up, and backed by feats that build on that.

I agree, and I love how a monk's movement speed serves to further create action economy for the monk.

One of my favorite examples of this "agency" (I like that term) is on a monk with the Medic Dedication's Doctor's Visitation.

In 3 actions/1 turn, this monk can do what would take most characters 7 actions/3 turns to accomplish:

> Move 50 feet (2 actions for the price of 1... assuming a 25 ft movement speed for another character)
> Flurry of Blows (2 more actions for the price of 1)
> Doctor's Visitation (move 50 feet...administer Battle Medicine to an ally...that's 3 actions for the price of 1)

Is this an optimal turn/approach to combat? <shrug>

Does it feel good to play? It feels great to play

With the introduction of Level 1-10 APs, a lower level guide would be useful to those players as well.

A fighter can scrape by with Dex 10 and Bulwark, but there are also upsides for going with more Dex:

- With a Dex 12 you can do fine with Splint Mail, which costs 13gp which means you can buy it with starting money.
- At level 5 you can raise Dex to 14 and get into Monk at level 6.
- You'll be better off than Bulwark on non-damaging reflex saves, such as various battlefield control effects and Trip.
- You're not automatically a liability on Dex skills, like when the whole party has to Stealth.
- You can choose between Half Plate and Splint Mail, which have different armor specialization effects. (Piercing or Slashing resistance)
- By level 10 your Reflex save will be as high as with Bulwark, and more consistently. By level 15 it will be better.

Agree with you and Possible Cabbage on the value of DEX. I do plan to increase it at 5 and 10.

Thanks to all 3 of you (including Necr0g1ant) for your thoughts.

Double Slice doesn't work with unarmed attacks because the feat specifies melee weapons. Are you planning on using it with gauntlets until you pick up Monk or Martial Artist?

It's fine to take Monk instead of Martial Artist, but remember that Monk requires DEX 14, whereas normally a fighter only needs DEX 10. If you want to use Deception to Feint, then you may prefer to put those points in CHA instead of DEX.

You're correct that a barbarian dedication isn't good for your build. Rage eats an action and lowers your AC.

Yes, I'll use Double Slice with a shield and gauntlet for now. I'll up my DEX to 14 at L5, and I'll retrain Double Slice to Sudden Charge at L6 when I get good unarmed strikes from Stumbling Strike!

Don't plan to actually feint so just need the skill point from Monk Dedication to meet the Stumbling Strike prerequisite.

Also, Monk Dedication grants a Trained skill (if you're already Trained in both Acrobatics & Athletics) which I can immediately put into Deception (allowing me to take Stumbling Stance without needing to invest in Deception earlier). So Monk is the better way to go all around and frees up my L9 Ancestry feat.

Applied_People wrote:

roquepo wrote:

Free Archetype and ABP rules. At first I thought they were yet another gestalt in disguise optional ruleset, but after playing with it, if given the choice, I don't think I would ever GM nor play a game without those.

I'm curious why you like the ABP rules. I'm interested in them, but would love to hear the perspective of someone who has used them.

Would you say more about it?

It makes GMing easier (having to track less treasure, specially the treasure that is considered mandatory, helps a lot), allows PCs to have several usable weapons while still having to specialize in one or two thanks to the property runes and makes handling and receiving loot more interesting imo. Finally, a lot of the "gold budget" you loose is siphoned into skill upgrades too, so players feel a bit more incentivized to use those.

Thank you!

From a player's perspective, I imagine there are several benefits too.

- Not worrying that you're "behind" where you should be with your offensive and defensive capabilities (and skills as you point out).

- Not having to weigh keeping the "cool" item you looted vs. selling it for half its value to fund a "basic" purchase

- Less loot haggling and having to argue for why your ranged Magus deserves a fundamental armor rune as much as or more than the frontline Champion

- Less loot management and gold distribution responsibility

Any downsides for you as the GM and/or for your players?

For example, I'm thinking the narrative might be wonky...like why is my character suddenly able to make magical attacks?

Free Archetype and ABP rules. At first I thought they were yet another gestalt in disguise optional ruleset, but after playing with it, if given the choice, I don't think I would ever GM nor play a game without those.

I'm curious why you like the ABP rules. I'm interested in them, but would love to hear the perspective of someone who has used them.

Would you say more about it?

I totally overlooked that! Thanks for pointing it out. Stumbling Stance it is.

I'm probably not being very clear. I'm suggesting that I should take Monk Dedication at 6 (instead of Martial Artist). Then I'd either take another Dedication at 9 (Barbarian or Rogue maybe) or so something else with my L9 Ancestry seat.

It allows you to take the martial arts/monk stance. I don't think you can take the stance without it.

Yes, but I took Martial Artist AND Monk dedication in the build outline above. I'm not taking anything from MA that I couldn't get from the Monk archetype; so I shouldn't take both.

I realize I'm wasting a feat on Martial Artist Dedication at L6. I could simply take Monk Dedication and leave the L9 Multitalented slot open for something else. Barbarian maybe? Another action to enter Rage on top of an action to enter a Stance seems...eh.

Here's an update. Our GM has opened up Free Archetype, and I've decided to go for a close combat brawler/wrestler sort of character. Below is the build out to Level 10. I'd love feedback if you have it.

L1: Snagging Strike & Double Slice (will retrain this to Sudden Charge at Level 6) as Class Feats (Human w/ Natural Ambition)

L2. Combat Grab (Class) + Wrestler Dedication (Free Archetype)

L4. Suplex (Class) + Elbow Breaker (FA)

L6. Martial Artist Dedication (Class) + Tiger or Stumbling Stance (FA)

L8. Strangle (Class) + Whirling Throw (FA)

L9. Dazing Blow (Combat Flexibility) + Monk Dedication (Multitalented)

L10. Agile Grace (Class) + Monk's Flurry (FA)

Relevant skill feats are: Assurance (Athletics), Titan Wrestler, Underwater Marauder (no idea if this will come in handy in AV), Battle Medicine, Assurance (Medicine)

Until I get Martial Artist at 6, I plan to wield a Shield Boss + Spiked Gauntlet to allow for Double Slice and to satisfy the free-hand requirement of some of my feats.

I plan to use a Spellguard Shield once I can afford one. I'd love to put Crushing & Grievous runes on the Handwraps. The Crushing rune is why I'm leaning toward Stumbling Stance over Tiger Stance, but I'm open to other ideas.

Again, your feedback is most welcome!

Just reached Level 2 in Abomination Vaults. Playing a Human Fighter with Double Slice and Sudden Charge. Trying to decide on a Level 2 feat and a feat path going forward. I've been going back and forth between a spiked whip + shield boss, a kukri + shield boss, and a guisarme.

I can't decide whether to play a 2H reach / control build or a two-weapon build or a free-hand control build.

Rest of party is comprised of a Fey Sorcerer (taking Medic Dedication), a Redeemer Champion, a ranged Magus, and a Construct Inventor.

If I play the 2H reach build, I'm debating between Lunge and Brutish Shove. In some ways they provide equivalent benefits in that both force an enemy without reach to Step twice if they want to attack me and not provoke an AOO. Brutish Shove provides the added utility of repositioning an enemy but only on a hit, and I'm not sure how often this will be useful.

At any rate, I like the control playstyle and enabling my team with damage being secondary.

I value the advice I see given here; so I thought I'd see what ideas / build paths people might suggest.

Thanks!

Gloom wrote:

This is a great thing so long as it's something that doesn't drive them out of business.

That's management talk and has no place here.

Gloom there has 9? subscriptions. I'd say that's more "Pathfinder/Starfinder fan and supporter" talk than management talk.

If it doesn't violate the community rules...it has a place here regardless.

Pistolero's Retort: How often is an opponent going to crit fail an attack against a level 9+ gunslinger? Looking at average Bestiary 1 stats, the answer is only if the opponent rolls a nat 1. This holds true even for Level - 2 creatures.

An ability that comes into play only if I'm attacked and only 5% of the time even then seems mistuned. Contrast with Rebounding Assault which can be used at least once per combat (and more if you both strikes hit or you spend the actions to retrieve your melee weapon). Or with Vital shot which can be used anytime you attack a flat-footed opponent, which is an easy condition to inflict.

This one needs some tuning to be in balance with the other Advanced Deeds.

I have read Quickened Casting (on Archives of Nethys) several times, and while it says that it reduces the number of actions to cast a spell by 1, it also has the symbol for consuming 1 action itself

Quickened Casting is a free action. I looked to make sure the listing on Nethys has the correct symbol and it does. Maybe you mistook the free action symbol for the one action symbol?

Thanks, shroudb. I can see a lot of upside to your suggestion.

So, here's what's on the table currently.

Bastion
Bastion Dedication (2)
Quick Shield Block (10)

Dual-Weapon Warrior
Dual-Weapon Warrior Dedication (2)
Flensing Strike (8) OR
Dual-Weapon Blitz (10)

Mauler
Mauler Dedication (2)
Knockdown (4)
Improved Knockdown (12)

Monk MC
Monk Dedication (2)
Basic Kata (4) - Monastic Weaponry
Monk Flurry (10)

Bastion doubles down on my defensive capabilities. I'd have 3 reactions per round. 1 general reaction that can be used for Glimpse of Redemption, Reactive Shield, Shield Block, or Shield of Reckoning, and 2 Shield Blocks that I can use on myself or an adjacent ally.

Dual-Weapon Warrior gives me greater offensive capabilities, MAP benefits and maintains good flexibility with damage types (i.e. Shield Boss + Short Sword for B/P/S damage). However, there are no action economy efficiencies. Two attacks still cost 2 actions.

Mauler gives me access to the sword critical effect if I'm using a bastard sword, MAP benefits, and allows me to get a Trip without rolling if I hit. Both my Barbarians and my Fighter have Attack of Opportunity also. So getting a free Trip on a hit is attractive for that reason, in addition to the benefit of being better at controlling enemy movement. But again, no action economy efficiency here. An attack and a trip still cost 2 actions.

Finally, Monk gives me some action economy efficiency and increased offensive output. I can attack twice for 1 action if I'm using a monk weapon or unarmed attacks. This would increase my offense while maintaining my mobility and ability to raise my shield each round. The downside for me are the weapon choices and the flavor for my character concept.

I still don't know which way I'll go, but all 4 options feel like strong choices that are upgrades relative to what I have to trade for them.

Thanks for all your input!

Might seem an unusual consideration, but if you use slashing/piercing weapons you could consider the poisoner archetype. At level 12 you could make a total of 24 poisons up to ninth level with the Expert poisoner feat. Pinpoint Poisoner helps with DCs by applying a -2 penalty to saves of flatfooted opponents. They're free and you can give them to party members; your archer might appreciate having a batch of poisoned arrows for example.

Thanks, Decimus.

Poisoner doesn't fit with my character concept, BUT it is something for me to consider for another concept. I don't normally think about poisons as a player coming from 1e, but I'll have to take a closer look.

Thank you for your thoughts, Blave. I hadn't thought to include my ability scores but those would be helpful, wouldn't they?

20 STR | 16 DEX | 18 CON | 10 INT | 14 WIS | 12 CHA

I have decent Dex so I could use a ranged weapon effectively. So Sentinel is less needed.

Conversely, my CHA is at the minimum I need to activate my Smite. So both Marshal and Bard would be hard to pull off.

Talisman Dabbler I liked for a bit of versatility and the ability to shave off 10 damage to my shield each combat. But admittedly, that's not very strong at 12.

So given all those things, Bastion is looking better and better.

As for Mauler, the dedication would give me critical specialization if I'm using a bastard sword (which is often via my shifting rune). So that's better than nothing. And I like Knockdown and Improved Knockdown a lot though. I've been wishing for some crowd control so enemies have a tougher time ignoring me and going for the squishies. And Improved Knockdown has amazing action economy. And Unbalancing Sweep looks good too and doesn't require a 2H weapon.

I'll mull it over but that's a great suggestion.

Thanks again.

Playing a Strong-Blooded Dwarf with a Shield Ally and a Moderate Sturdy Shield in AoA. My party varies in size depending on the week but we have a Heal/Harm capable Cleric, an Angelic Sorcerer, a Animal (Frog) Instinct Barbarian, a Dragon Instinct Barbarian, and an archer Fighter MC Rogue. With my current setup, I'm capable of mitigating a lot of damage to myself and my party. I'd originally planned to lean even harder into this role with Divine Reflexes at 14 and maybe retraining to take the Bastion Archetype (at 2) and Quick Shield Block (at 12).

I'll soon have an opportunity to retrain, and I'm wondering if I'm going too far down the damage mitigation route. I'm looking specifically at replacing some or all of the following: Shining Oath (2), Aura of Courage (4) (though there aren't many options at L4 and below), and Lasting Doubt (12).

Here's my current setup:

Class Feats
1. Weight of Guilt
2. Shining Oath
4. Aura of Courage
6. Shield Warden
8. Quick Block
10. Shield of Reckoning
12. Lasting Doubt

Ancestry Feats
1. Unburdened Iron
5. Dwarven Reinforcement
9. Mountain's Stoutness

General Feats
3. Toughness
7. Fleet
11. Fast Recovery

I'm considering the following combinations, but I'm open to other ideas. Shield Warden + Quick Block + Shield of Reckoning are the core of my build so I'm less open to making changes there, but compelling ideas are welcome there too.

2. Cleric Dedication
4. Emblazon Armament/Basic Cleric Spellcasting

2. Bastion Dedication
12. Quick Shield Block

2. Talisman Dabbler
12. Deeper Dabbler

2. Bastion Dedication
12. Attack of Opportunity

Thanks for your thoughts!

Greetings law abiding citizens, i made this here guide on how to be a stuck up douchebaggy smartypants. Enjoy and let me know about the grave errors i made in the making of the document

Quite Elementary Indeed

Thanks for your work! I'm always excited when a new guide is published.

(i.e. can pass himself off as a common citizen, like a hotdog vender or something.)

Ha! Ignatius J. Reilly from Confederacy of Dunces.

Divine spell doesn't seem to useful,in level 1，I spend too many HEAL in fight

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the spell magic weapon yet. You could probably prepare this spell in every slot at level 1-2 and not regret it.

This will increase your party's offense significantly which should also decrease the amount of in-combat healing you need to do.

Just noticed that Silence didn't make it into the "off-list" list in the Spells section. 2nd level is meh, but heightened to 4th is green to blue.

Any spell with a duration can be worth heightening, because the higher level automatically makes it harder to dispel.

Got it. Thank you!

Burntgerb wrote:

Here's what I'm using...

Thanks for sharing! I now have the chance to customize the character to my liking before playing again tomorrow. Your character has helped me make some of those choices!

Question for you. How are you getting DC30 and +20 spell rolls on the innate cantrips? Wouldn't those only have trained proficiency or am I missing an important detail?

Edit: Nevermind! The answer is right there plain as day in the rules on innate spells. Don't know how I missed it in past readings.

I have a better question now. What's with the heightened Calm Emotions? According to Archives of Nethys, that spell has no heightened effects.

Here's what I'm using...

Thanks for sharing! I now have the chance to customize the character to my liking before playing again tomorrow. Your character has helped me make some of those choices!

Question for you. How are you getting DC30 and +20 spell rolls on the innate cantrips? Wouldn't those only have trained proficiency or am I missing an important detail?

Edit: Nevermind! The answer is right there plain as day in the rules on innate spells. Don't know how I missed it in past readings.

Saelansidhe Link Pdf

Thank you so much! This is a lifesaver.

Anyone have a character they'd be willing to share? I'm dropping in for a guest appearance in a homegame Age of Ashes session tonight and don't have time to build this character.

Optimized, non-optimized...whatever you've got would be appreciated!

Anyone have a character they'd be willing to share? I'm dropping in for a guest appearance in Age of Ashes and don't have time to build this character.

Optimized, non-optimized...whatever you've got would be appreciated!

I'm glad to see the post sparking some discussion. I do want to reiterate that the build should pose a substantial threat also. Otherwise, why even bother attacking the impervious turtle that doesn't make a meaningful offensive contribution.

Because the post title is hard to kill builds, I think the 'and also be a credible threat' piece is being overlooked despite being stated in my original post.

Perhaps a moderator can change the title to "Hard to Ignore, Harder to Kill Builds".

My remaining concern is bolstering saves. Some options include Orc Superstition/Pervasive Superstition/Spell Devourer, Root Magic...

Blech. Just reread Root Magic, and it appears to only apply to allies, not yourself.

@Red Griffyn: I like your build very much. It checks a lot of boxes as you've pointed out.

Offense the GM isn't likely to ignore combined with multiple layers of defense from high hp to temp hp to self-healing to ferocity to resistance to decent AC to shield use to reach! Jeez.

My remaining concern is bolstering saves. Some options include Orc Superstition/Pervasive Superstition/Spell Devourer, Root Magic, Hero's Call (dwarf feat), Champion feats stolen via Blessed One Dedication.

I also like a tenets of good Champion base but worry that it's not as likely to draw fire from enemies. I may be wrong but it feels as though you can build a Champion for strong offense or strong defense but trying to do both results in being lackluster at both.

What can we build now that the APG is released?

The build should be enough of a threat that the GM won't ignore us but should also be infuriatingly difficult to bring down.

Some scattered inputs that you can take or leave: Dwarf ancestry; Orc ancestry with the Hold-Scarred heritage; Toughness; Root Magic; Monk? / Champion? / Barbarian?

Just downloaded my copy as well. Anyone else notice that the top half of the sword is missing from the overlaid elven(?) swashbuckler(?) art on the 2nd page of the Table of Contents?

I'm beginning a Hell's Rebels campaign soon, and I'm having trouble deciding the best way to execute my concept.

Basically, I want a character that focuses on using his mind to manipulate both organic and inorganic material that is already present around him. Thematic spells would be found mostly in the enchantment (manipulating brains/synapses), necromancy (manipulating bodies, both dead and alive), and transmutation (manipulating both animated and inanimate objects). Sample spells: animate rope, cause fear, sleep, suggestion, blindness/deafness, enter image, shrink item, animate dead, command undead, possession/object possession.

Currently considering Mesmerist (Material Manipulator or Projectionist), Occultist (Vanilla or Silksworn...changes spellcasting to Arcane though), Psychic (Rebirth Discipline), or Sorcerer (Psychic Bloodline). I prefer the more subtle psychic spellcasting to Arcane or Divine for this concept.

I think the MM Mesmerist is probably my best option, but I'm open to the other options...or even options I haven't listed (including non-psychic options)

Thanks!

There's this link in the guide to the guides, it seems to work.

That's the one I tried originally. I get the following error message: Viewing of .pdf files has been disabled in Microsoft Word Mobile Viewer. Please get in touch with your helpdesk.

Anyway, I'm not expecting anyone to troubleshoot this but if anyone has a copy they'd be willing to share, I can PM you my email.

Thanks!

Anyone have a valid link to this guide anymore?

A player in my group wants to DM a short "interlude" adventure for our group's current cast of characters. He has DM'ed before but it has been awhile. I am the current DM for the group, but I like to play and would love for him to GM more. As such, I don't want to scare him off with a character that is too strong or has lots of moving parts that are hard for him to keep track of/understand the interactions and implications of.

So I'm looking for a relatively straightforward build that will still be fun for me to play for 3-5 sessions.

One build I'm considering comes from this thread from a few years back.

Dwarf fighter with dwarven dorn-dergar
L1 power attack, combat reflexes
L2 cleave
L3 goblin cleaver
L4 orc hewer
L5 great cleave

But I'm looking for other ideas that the community may have.

Edit: the other characters in the group are a wizard, an unsworn shaman, and a barbarian. None of which are heavily optimized but are all perfectly functional.

Glaive? (why is the deadly still 1d8?)

Guisarme (I loved trip)

Ranseur (disarm worth it?)

Fauchard (p.92 LOCG) - 1d8, deadly d8, reach 10 ft., sweep, trip

Any high level (12+) Halfling Druid NPCs that we know about? I want one for my Leshy's backstory. Can be from anywhere in Avistan or Garund.

Thanks!

Or Haste! I was waiting to see what you'd say, RD, but this was where I thought you were going.

It's a great image, 3 balls of fire rolling around a battlefield. Imagine the chaos you'd sow pulling that trick against an army of foot soldiers.

Edit: Haste doesn't work here actually.

Personally, I've really benefitted from those posters who have shared their approaches to spell preparation in 2e. And I agree that (number of spells to choose from aside), it is a more complex process than PF1 at higher levels.

I love that wands and scrolls use your caster level for determining the effects of said spell. This lets you offload situational spells even more effectively than in PF1.

Spells like Bless, Command, Fear, Feather Fall, Grease, Illusory Object and Longstrider all have legs as 1st level slots even at high levels.

At 2nd level, Blur, Enlarge, Invisibility, Mirror Image and See Invisibility are strong, no matter your level.

Anyone have more thoughts to share on the topic?

I am trying to figure out if I should use the 3.5 or PF1e Character Advancement Table for this adventure.

My party of 4 players currently have 6,800 XP. On the 3.5 table, this is 4th level. On the PF1e table, this is 3rd level (and far from the 9,000 XP needed for 4th level).

They are about to descend to the second level of the dungeon.

Any guidance would be appreciated!

Applied_People wrote:

MY TEEF!

Very weak effect, but I love the name nonetheless!

A spellcaster might not think so! But bear in mind it still does double damage. The one that gets me is “knicked an artery: normal damage.” Plus the effect of course, but it reads a little funny.

Sure. But what are the chances that you roll a natural 20 with a bludgeoning weapon against a spellcaster that can't cast a 1-action Heal on themselves (hint: the chances are much less than otherwise). That's the only time this would really do anything. And even then, it only has a 25% chance of having an effect.

All I'm saying is the likelihood of this doing anything worthwhile is vanishingly small. That being said, I love the flavor...and it's a free possibility for an additional effect. So hey, that's a bonus.

MY TEEF!

Very weak effect, but I love the name nonetheless!